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Malcolm Merlyn

Left to die on road, pregnant Lucknow woman writes to PM Narendra Modi to end 'triple talaq', says 'I voted for BJP'

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1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

We the people defined it.  Your book also defines theft as unlawful possession. 

 

PS: Why do you keep running away from my question ? why are Afghan men so afraid of women ?

 

so you don't have a problem with people/society defining stealing as wrong, but in other threads you cry about majority rule on beef ban, after all that's what people want in India at least( most of them anyway). 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, panther said:

so you don't have a problem with people/society defining stealing as wrong, but in other threads you cry about majority rule on beef ban, after all that's what people want in India at least( most of them anyway). 

 

 

Inalienable rights are inalienable rights. If tomorrow the majority said lets kill all left-handed people, that doesnt make it right. Democracy isn't just what the majority wants, its what the majority wants within the framework of inalienable rights.


Bro, why you running away from my question ? 

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15 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Inalienable rights are inalienable rights. If tomorrow the majority said lets kill all left-handed people, that doesnt make it right. Democracy isn't just what the majority wants, its what the majority wants within the framework of inalienable rights.


Bro, why you running away from my question ? 

Who decides these Inalienable rights? 

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9 minutes ago, panther said:

basically humans. 

Everything is done by humans, whether you choose to believe it or not. God didnt come and hand a Koran to you- a human did. 

The Koran didnt magically appear out of thin air, a human wrote it down based on what another human told him. So yours too, is done by humans. Mine just doesnt pretend to pass of human process as 'Godly' like yours does.

 

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7 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Everything is done by humans, whether you choose to believe it or not. God didnt come and hand a Koran to you- a human did. 

The Koran didnt magically appear out of thin air, a human wrote it down based on what another human told him. So yours too, is done by humans. Mine just doesnt pretend to pass of human process as 'Godly' like yours does.

 

Without God you can't have Inalienable rights. 

 

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7 minutes ago, panther said:

Without God you can't have Inalienable rights. 

 

Uh, yes you can. Check the constitutions of USA and Canada. Inalienable rights. No God involved. 


And until God itself comes forward and makes laws, its all manmade laws. Your prophet was a man. He claimed to be a prophet. God didnt come, call a council meeting and declare Mohammed his prophet. So its all manmade. As i said, atleast my system doesn't claim nonsense and goes by competency, not what some manmade book says.

 

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3 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Uh, yes you can. Check the constitutions of USA and Canada. Inalienable rights. No God involved. 


And until God itself comes forward and makes laws, its all manmade laws. Your prophet was a man. He claimed to be a prophet. God didnt come, call a council meeting and declare Mohammed his prophet. So its all manmade. As i said, atleast my system doesn't claim nonsense and goes by competency, not what some manmade book says.

 

Usa constitution clearly mentions God.

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9 minutes ago, panther said:

regardless it doesn't matter, if tomorrow the constitution changes these rights are no longer there. 

And if tomorrow the world changes, Islam is no longer there. 

As i said, everything is manmade. 

 

So answer my question- why are Afghans so afraid of women ? I don't think anyone who's so afraid of women as you are can call yourselves brave.

 

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Triple Talaq is not in the Prophets tradition or anywhere in Islamic teaching. It is known as "Talaq ul Bidat" -  Innovated talaq- for a reason. So if it was to be banned it may well be the right thing.

 

The correct Islamic way is to allow a period of one month between each utterance of the word, so that there is a period of deliberation and arbritation.

Edited by Sooda

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On 3/30/2017 at 3:09 PM, Mariyam said:

There isn't much of a consensus. And this is a very difficult question to answer. And to be honest, most of the answers are depressing.

 

In my observation based on a few of years of practice, Triple Talaq is more prevalent among the orthodox rich and educated Muslims. That being said, the husband in most of these cases willingly parts with a decent amount of money and ensures that his ex spouse doesn't face financial hardship and is taken care of. Most of these women are not employed.

Among the poorer sections, the incidence of Triple Talaq is lesser. But when it does occur, the husband parts with next to nothing. Most of the wives here, however are employed in the informal sector or as domestic helps and can eek out a living.

Among the salaried neo middle class Muslim households, triple talaq is very rare.

 

Obviously there is a division of opinion along the gender line. Women aren't in favour of this archaic rule at all.

 

Among the legal fraternity, the opinion is divided. Even among those taking up the cause of women at the receiving end of a triple talaq. Most of the women are abused and left for younger wives and the prospect of dowry. Common practice among poorer sections, as they can't afford multiple wives. Almost every time, spousal abuse precedes the triple talaq, Most of these women have had it with the abusive marriages and press for punitive charges. Or various law firms do that on their behalf. These firms vehemently argue in favour of the triple talaq being banned.

 

There is an alternate school of thought. Flavia Agnes, for instance, argues that the Triple Talaq shouldn't be banned.

 

 

 

 

Read the Flavia Agnes articles it's basically bull ****. Triple talaq is archaic it should be banned and enforced with heavy force, pretty sure it's on the way. 

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11 hours ago, panther said:

The best place for women is their homes.

 

Also this ruling is an attempt by BJP to reduce muslims fertility rate and delay Ghazwa e hind.

 

 

Well it's good either way reduce Muslim population as you say and or empower Muslim women. Eitherway good for India. The fact that folks like you and mullahs disagree means it will be enforced with special prejeduice in India. Nice

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2 hours ago, Vilander said:

Well it's good either way reduce Muslim population as you say and or empower Muslim women. Eitherway good for India. The fact that folks like you and mullahs disagree means it will be enforced with special prejeduice in India. Nice

All that will happen is more women will be abandoned or killed, just look at the Nagaland example above.

 

 

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On 30/03/2017 at 11:45 PM, Mariyam said:

The brave lady in the OP who wrote a letter to the PM should also file a complaint against her husband (if she hasn't) for physical abuse, that too when she was pregnant.

Let him rot a couple of years in jail. That would teach him a lesson.

Not just Domestic violence but also trying to force foeticide.

 

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10 hours ago, Sooda said:

Triple Talaq is not in the Prophets tradition or anywhere in Islamic teaching. It is known as "Talaq ul Bidat" -  Innovated talaq- for a reason. So if it was to be banned it may well be the right thing.

 

The correct Islamic way is to allow a period of one month between each utterance of the word, so that there is a period of deliberation and arbritation.

The problem is with the arbiters, not so much with the arbitration. It is just difficult to get unbiased arbiters. 

Most of the people who opt for the triple talaq are those who consult their qazi. And its on the qazi's insistence, at times that the husband goes ahead and divorces the wife.

 

In such a scenario, can't expect the qazi to be fair.

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On 3/31/2017 at 2:23 AM, panther said:

Reminds me of the funny story of the Sikh man who became muslim after a few months he went to the mufti complaining that this religion is too hard and that he can't cope with all the prayers, fasting and all the rules and that he wants to leave, the mufti told him to shut up or we will cut your head off, the Sikh man replied what kind of religion is this?, When you enter they cut you're foreskin and when you want to leave they chop off your head.

:phehe::phehe:

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15 hours ago, panther said:

regardless it doesn't matter, if tomorrow the constitution changes these rights are no longer there. 

Equality and freedom is enshined in most Constitutions of democratic nations. However one of the freedom guaranteed is also freedom to practice own religion. However religious practice keeps stepping on "Equality" and "freedom" defined in democratic constitution. So when enough support is garnered,  democratic system evolves and just amends religious practice. 

You must understand that religious practices are subset of democratic principle and not other way round. So if some religious practice is crushing democratic principle, then there is peoblem. Stuff like Beef ban,  liqor ban, drug ban are grey areas and imo represents how Far democracy has evolved

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http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-39480846?SThisFB

 

What kind of a f*cked up system is this..

 

Quote

A number of online services are charging "divorced" Muslim women thousands of pounds to take part in "halala" Islamic marriages, a BBC investigation has found. Women pay to marry, have sex with and then divorce a stranger, so they can get back with their first husbands.

Farah - not her real name - met her husband after being introduced to him by a family friend when she was in her 20s. They had children together soon afterwards but then, Farah says, the abuse began.

"The first time he was abusive was over money," she tells the BBC's Asian Network and Victoria Derbyshire programme.

"He dragged me by my hair through two rooms and tried to throw me out of the house. There would be times where he would just go crazy."

Despite the abuse, Farah hoped things would change. Her husband's behaviour though became increasingly erratic - leading to him "divorcing" her via text message.

"I was at home with the children and he was at work. During a heated discussion he sent me a text saying, 'talaq, talaq, talaq'."

"Triple talaq" - where a man says "talaq", or divorce, to his wife three times in a row - is a practice which some Muslims believe ends an Islamic marriage instantly.

It is banned in most Muslim countries but still happens, though it is impossible to know exactly how many women are "divorced" like this in the UK.

"I had my phone on me," Farah explains, "and I just passed it over to my dad. He was like, 'Your marriage is over, you can't go back to him.'"

Quote

Halala involves the woman marrying someone else, consummating the marriage and then getting a divorce - after which she is able to remarry her first husband.

But in some cases, women who seek halala services are at risk of being financially exploited, blackmailed and even sexually abused.

It's a practice the vast majority of Muslims are strongly against and is attributed to individuals misunderstanding the Islamic laws around divorce.

But an investigation by the BBC has found a number of online accounts offering halala services, several of which are charging women thousands of pounds to take part in temporary marriages.

 

Edited by coffee_rules

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On 1/1/2018 at 10:44 AM, jf1gp_1 said:

Sure ban triple talaq but focus should be how the executive and judicial branch of govt ensure that an abandoned married woman (irrespective of religion) gets what is rightfully hers within weeks (not years) ALSO ensuring the law isn't misused. 

+1

Instead of jail....make ,child maintainance,alimony and custody as precondition of getting divorce.

Show the court that you are willing to take responsibility and then do what you want.

 

 

 

 

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