Is there an alternative to Congress and BJP ?

[Muloghonto]

1 minute ago, ravishingravi said:

My guess is you are not from India. Both those realities for Congree and BJP can only hold true if one only follows Indian politics through TV debates. 

I left India a long time ago. but I follow motions in the parliament and State legislatures. And its pretty clear that BJP tries its level best to pass hindu-centric laws while Congress tries its level best to create and maintain a parallel state for Muslims.

 

[narenpande1]

There is No alternative to BJP.

 

India needs a right wing nationalist Hindu govt for the next several decades to find its rightful place in the world. 

 

Congress and especially  all other fringe Regional parties  follow an agenda of either minor and caste appeasement , don't have any vision for a highly prosperous and strong India and India must become " mukht " of them.

 

Pursuing Hindutva agenda is akin to the pure form of secularism - which allowed so many different religions to find home in India ( over the last several centuries ). No other form of secularism is required.

 

Also remember, there are dozens of Muslim countries or countries that believe in Christianity and even Buddhism.

 

why can't there be a Hindu country ( since this most compassionate religion of

Sanatan Dharma, originated here )

 

we dont have to be apologetic about it 1 bit. F@@k what the world thinks. 

 

 

[Muloghonto]

17 minutes ago, narenpande1 said:

There is No alternative to BJP.

 

India needs a right wing nationalist Hindu govt for the next several decades to find its rightful place in the world. 

The world is getting more multicultural and liberal with each passing decade. Right wing religious governments are a relic of the past and will take us backwards, not forwards. The rightful place in the world for India is to be the halcyon beacon of liberalism. Like it was in its golden age. 

 

Quote

 

Pursuing Hindutva agenda is akin to the pure form of secularism - which allowed so many different religions to find home in India ( over the last several centuries ). No other form of secularism is required

Get on with the program. We don't live in a day and age anymore where the old Gurus are gurus- they are illiterates compared to our own children. Answer me this honestly : Why should i ask my 13 year old daughter to follow & respect someone like Valmiki, when she knows more about EVERYTHING than Valmiki ? 

 So why should we follow them and their simpleton message ? There was no hinduvta in the past and what the hinduvta of today is, has never existed in the past. Its hindu-mullahgiri pretending to be hinduism. 

 

Quote

why can't there be a Hindu country ( since this most compassionate religion of

Sanatan Dharma, originated here )

If you are that hell-bent on having a country that follows stone-age ethos, let Nepal be the one, also a hindu nation. But why there can't be a hindu nation ? Because in this day and age, there is no place for any religion in the government of a society. And that is a far superior way than being any particular religion-based society. Most advanced nations in the world today are secular nations. India needs to tweak its secularism from 'appeasing of all religions' to 'kicking all religions out of official life' and then things will look on the up too.

 

Edited April 13, 2017 by Muloghonto

[Muloghonto]

And yes, there is always an alternative to BJP. Its called Congress. As i said before, this is golden opportunity for BJP to succeed as well as fail. For first time in Indian history, there is a majority government that is not the congress. And BJP needs to demonstrate that it can do better than congress on all fronts, not just economy. If it does, then India belongs to BJP for the next few decades. If it fails to make a difference, people will go with the 'devil they know' aka Congress over the 'devil we cant trust', aka RSS fanatics.

 

[narenpande1]

47 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

The world is getting more multicultural and liberal with each passing decade. Right wing religious governments are a relic of the past and will take us backwards, not forwards. The rightful place in the world for India is to be the halcyon beacon of liberalism. Like it was in its golden age. 

 

Get on with the program. We don't live in a day and age anymore where the old Gurus are gurus- they are illiterates compared to our own children. Answer me this honestly : Why should i ask my 13 year old daughter to follow & respect someone like Valmiki, when she knows more about EVERYTHING than Valmiki ? 

 So why should we follow them and their simpleton message ? There was no hinduvta in the past and what the hinduvta of today is, has never existed in the past. Its hindu-mullahgiri pretending to be hinduism. 

 

If you are that hell-bent on having a country that follows stone-age ethos, let Nepal be the one, also a hindu nation. But why there can't be a hindu nation ? Because in this day and age, there is no place for any religion in the government of a society. And that is a far superior way than being any particular religion-based society. Most advanced nations in the world today are secular nations. India needs to tweak its secularism from 'appeasing of all religions' to 'kicking all religions out of official life' and then things will look on the up too.

 

 Unless your daughter is Einstein + Newton , it is silly of you to compare her to our ancient scholar Valmiki.

 

How much do you even know about Vedas and Puranas ?

[Muloghonto]

1 hour ago, narenpande1 said:

 Unless your daughter is Einstein + Newton , it is silly of you to compare her to our ancient scholar Valmiki.

 

How much do you even know about Vedas and Puranas ?

No, my daughter doesn't have to be Einstein of Newton. Because any 12 year old knows more about biology, universe, math, physics, chemistry, origin of the species,etc. than a 3000 year old bronze age dude. 

The Vedas and Puranas were very advanced for their time. There is way more science in it than even in the Koran (yes, i've read all of them). But the world changed in the last 300 years. Its not the iron age anymore. Industrial revolution, mass education, etc. means that Any grade 12 guy now knows more than Newton or Aryabhatta. Anyone who can do fourier transform knows more about Math than newton. Anyone who can calculate the precession of the earth knows more than even Copernicus, never mind Aryabhatta.
Any 12-13 year old knows more than Valmiki or Vyas or Mohammed or Jesus. 

Because in the last 300 years we've covered far more ground technologically, scientifically and in information dispersal that the rest of 100K years of human history combined.

And this is why the world is in a crisis right now- because we follow mythologies, rules and religions made by people far, far more ignorant than us and our lifestyle is no longer compatible with those ignorant people living in huts and thinking the ability to tell what time it is made one a learned man. 

Edited April 13, 2017 by Muloghonto

[Texan]

3 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

because one party is all about muslim appeasement, the other is all about hindu fanaticism. So the majority of Indians are unrepresented and forced to choose between two crappy options.

 

Those could be your perceptions of those parties. There is nothing to suggest that a third alternative is going to be any better. We already had multiple Third Front governments in the 90s and pretty unanimously, people found them to be worse than either BJP or Congress. The problem is that we always tend to think that an "unknown" entity is going to be better than the options we currently have. A recent "unknown" entity that entered this space was AAP, and all in all, with the power-hungry, dramatic and mindless politics that we have seen from the AAP, BJP feels so much better.

[Muloghonto]

8 minutes ago, Texan said:

Those could be your perceptions of those parties. There is nothing to suggest that a third alternative is going to be any better. We already had multiple Third Front governments in the 90s and pretty unanimously, people found them to be worse than either BJP or Congress. The problem is that we always tend to think that an "unknown" entity is going to be better than the options we currently have. A recent "unknown" entity that entered this space was AAP, and all in all, with the power-hungry, dramatic and mindless politics that we have seen from the AAP, BJP feels so much better.

Well if one party is gonna hog all the minority appeasement and the other is gonna hog all the hindu fanaticism, maybe the third party will HAVE to play to the liberal city-wallahs due to lack of 'base to appeal to'. 

 

btw, there were regional parties and those regional parties are still largely very popular in their region with practically zero outreach elsewhere. But at the centre, we only had minority governments of various iterations of the Janata Dal, which fell not because people disliked them but because they couldn't hold together the coalition- the same reason the first Vajpayee government fell in less than a month. 

Don't write off the AAP- they are doing far better in their first 5 years than BJP/Janata Dal have. But yes, they are not going to be a force for atleast a decade even if well managed. Coz it takes time to form national outreach.

 

Edited April 13, 2017 by Muloghonto

[MechEng]

3 hours ago, narenpande1 said:

There is No alternative to BJP.

 

India needs a right wing nationalist Hindu govt for the next several decades to find its rightful place in the world. 

 

Congress and especially  all other fringe Regional parties  follow an agenda of either minor and caste appeasement , don't have any vision for a highly prosperous and strong India and India must become " mukht " of them.

 

Pursuing Hindutva agenda is akin to the pure form of secularism - which allowed so many different religions to find home in India ( over the last several centuries ). No other form of secularism is required.

 

Also remember, there are dozens of Muslim countries or countries that believe in Christianity and even Buddhism.

 

why can't there be a Hindu country ( since this most compassionate religion of

Sanatan Dharma, originated here )

 

we dont have to be apologetic about it 1 bit. F@@k what the world thinks. 

 

 

The main reason why India needs right wing nationalist mindset is because we have the most unfriendliest neighbours in the world - China and Pakistan. Both nations display extreme behaviour, one is a religious fanatic and the other is a cold blooded communist, so to keep them at bay we cannot afford to be passive. India's neighbours are not Belgium and Switzerland.

[Muloghonto]

1 hour ago, MechEng said:

The main reason why India needs right wing nationalist mindset is because we have the most unfriendliest neighbours in the world - China and Pakistan. Both nations display extreme behaviour, one is a religious fanatic and the other is a cold blooded communist, so to keep them at bay we cannot afford to be passive. India's neighbours are not Belgium and Switzerland.

I don't see why we need to be right-wing to get to nationalism. There are plenty of liberal-minded people who don't want to get into a 'hindu social laws lifestyle' but will fight to the death for their nation. Like, why the hell does 'repeat Kashmir's special status' be package-dealt with 'cow protection nonsense' laws ? 

Btw, the only reason i pick BJP over Congress is because when the buck stops with India's external security situation, BJP is more decisive and India-centric than Congress.

 

But the fear is, its kind of the same reason many Germans looked on in the horrors of post WWI germany and voted for Hitler, thinking 'atleast this is the ONE guy who will put Germany first'. And that, in itself was 100% true, if you think what Hitler's proposition for German Economy was, for a society where engineers and doctors could afford only few loaves of bread per week. That, is what the biggest risk with promoting right wing nationalism is. As they say, give it opportunity and the cream will always rise to the top. India is a big country. You may not like what that distilled 'cream' of right wing nationalism looks like when it arrives.

 

The more i think about India, the more i kind of wish it had stronger institutions. But no government really invests in that- not without having massive local powers divested in the community. 

 

Edited April 13, 2017 by Muloghonto

[surajmal]

lol at AAP

 

Once they get wiped out in MCD, watch out for the return of dharna politics. 

AAP's goose is cooked. 

 

 

Edited April 13, 2017 by surajmal

[asterix]

Why not give RW a chance to run the nation for couple of decades?

People have already seen liberal, socialist form of governments.

If BJP screws up it'll pay.

India is a great democracy and it has its own checks and balances... trust the institutions and voting public...

We don't have voting rights and hence can't demand whatever we like.

 

As for AAP, it's going far away from being liberal and non corrupt... People backed AAP for it being a clean party and not if it being a liberal party. There were already many liberal parties available that that time. People don't want another "ultra secular" but not so clean party being led by another egomaniac.

 

The AAP lost its strong values when Kejri kicked out all the dissenting voices and became a supreme leader...

[surajmal]

AAP is done and Congress will break up post 2019 with non-stupid people like Jairam Ramesh, Tiwari etc forming a new party. 

[Muloghonto]

34 minutes ago, surajmal said:

AAP is done and Congress will break up post 2019 with non-stupid people like Jairam Ramesh, Tiwari etc forming a new party. 

And BJP will become the new congress and it will be Chalta hai as usual, with insane corruption and only difference is, hindus get to do whatever the eff they want, instead of Kashmiris and minorities doing whatever they want and getting away with it in Congress Raj.

Bravo! 

Such great vision we have from our wannabe Nationalist. 

 

PS: I will point out that the Chaddis make a critical fallacy at playing the nationalist card, by failing to recognize the inherent value a nation derives from having atleast one, if not more, strong opposition parties. All the chaddis want, is BJP rules, nobody else in sight. Not good for India, in the long or short run. Can't think of any nation that has benefitted by being a democracy of one behemoth party with no credible opposition.

 

[Muloghonto]

40 minutes ago, asterix said:

Why not give RW a chance to run the nation for couple of decades?

People have already seen liberal, socialist form of governments.

If BJP screws up it'll pay.

India is a great democracy and it has its own checks and balances... trust the institutions and voting public...

We don't have voting rights and hence can't demand whatever we like.

 

As for AAP, it's going far away from being liberal and non corrupt... People backed AAP for it being a clean party and not if it being a liberal party. There were already many liberal parties available that that time. People don't want another "ultra secular" but not so clean party being led by another egomaniac.

 

The AAP lost its strong values when Kejri kicked out all the dissenting voices and became a supreme leader...

Yes. But its still better off to warn about the RW because its better to be safe than sorry. So unless we have RW govt for decades with no incident, its pretty prudent to be cautious about RW promoting RW activities, given the track record of RW and governance. 

 

[asterix]

 

There were no incidents or riots during non RW rules in the past?

 

 

Whom you are warning? The voting public? I believe they are in a better position to decide about their future than some of us who don't vote or contribute in the election process...

As far as governance is concerned, NDA governments are doing far better than UPA or other regional parties for decades now...

[surajmal]

And tharoor is a closet Sanghi. He is just waiting for the economy to reach 4 trillion mark before he jumps ship. At that point, he can proudly display his hinduness and get rid off the gungadeen mask that he like many others had to wear due to 60 years of Congress' corruption and ineptitude. 

Edited April 13, 2017 by surajmal

[asterix]

Great news coming from Kanthi assembly by election result.. TMC won hands down. But the good news is that BJP got a vote swing of @ 21%. It got 30% votes and second to TMC... Left and Cong washed away... hope the Bongs are getting ready for the saffron revolution...

[chewy]

Can't see any alternative party making any inroads as long as Modi remains BJP leader.

Right now every political outfit wants to claim opposition role by attacking not BJP but personally attacking Modi, but Modi's popularity with people causes blow back for these political parties/leaders

Classical example is look at the shameful fall of Nitish Kumar. 

 

On a side not, i would like to see how Tamil Nadus parties fair outside TN, if they ditch their Dravidian identity politics, TN economically and development wise has done well with either AIADMK or DMK

[veer]

On 4/12/2017 at 3:01 AM, kubrickian said:

There is a need for an alternative progressive, pro-development, pro-merit, more inclusive government but I cant see any options currently.

 

 

you are looking for a perfect party? It ain't going to happen in a country like India..

 

BJP, with all its issues, is still far better party.. Modi is whipping every leader in his party to work hard and be accountable.. This is a big change from the past government.. Personally i believe World is at cross roads.. a lot of countries are at cross roads where they gotta decide what path to take.. to be chewed by secularists, left wingers or be more at center right.. In times like this its better to have a nationalist govt instead of Congress/AAP types..