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Rishab pant smashes greatest Indian phasttt bowler for 64664

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8 hours ago, speedheat said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

:facepalm: umesh haven't learn a skill?? I thought reverse swing is a skill, god help me, poor umesh and aeron were always in and out of the team because of either injuries or because of that stubborn mule playing internal politics.( and that's why its not so many years)

 

 

Both of them were never backed until kohli stepped forward, umesh was our highest wicket taker in WC 2015 he always delivers when it counts and Arron is not far away too I am damn sure if ever he get rid of injury he will come good too.

 

 

Fully fit Arron and umesh are 100 times better

 

 

then those dibbly dobblys in any format

 

 

Reverse swing is nonexistent ever since the 2 new balls concept.

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Isn't that a contradiction ?

 

You say pace is prerequisite because it can't be taught ......while other skills can be taught.

 

Bhuvi was not fast...he was able to increase  pace .So...if required...increasing pace can be taught .

 

Bhuvi  was always skilled.....how many bowlers who did not have the ability to swing ,have gone on to become really good swing bowlers?

 

 

 

I think basic bowling talent and bowling brain is the prerequisite. Rest all can be taught if there is a will to learn and work hard.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I must say,your a Smart girl

 

 

But see nobody has taught bhuvi the increased pace, he himself has developed it through some sheer hard work and training, that is also called as up gradation, there is a vast difference between being taught and being developed, bhuvi has developed his pace and not learnt it through any coach or trainer etc.

 

https://m.rediff.com/cricket/2005/jul/02lillee.htm

 

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44 minutes ago, speedheat said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

I must say,your a Smart girl emoji4.png

 

 

 

 

But see nobody has taught bhuvi the increased pace, he himself has developed it through some sheer hard work and training, that is also called as up gradation, there is a vast difference between being taught and being developed, bhuvi has developed his pace and not learnt it through any coach or trainer etc.

 

https://m.rediff.com/cricket/2005/jul/02lillee.htm

 

thx 

But you do believe that pace can be learnt later on  and the icf saying that the first thing that matters in a youngster is pace(because it can't be taught or learnt )...everything else can be taught is not always right.

 

If Bhuvi can increase pace...then other focused,dedicated and hard working bowlers can also increase pace if required.

Edited by beetle

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8 minutes ago, beetle said:

thx 

But you do believe that pace can be learnt later on  and the icf saying that the first thing that matters in a youngster is pace(because it can't be taught or learnt )...everything else can be taught is not always right.

 

If Bhuvi can increase pace...then other focused,dedicated and hard working bowlers can also increase pace if required.

Its not ICF saying but what the experts and fast bowling greats believe. They are talking about express pace in the range of 150+. That is something which can't be taught. Its something that the player is born with. A 120-125k bowler will not start bowling 150k. But a 130k bowler can increase his pace by 5-10k by hard work like Bhuvi has done.

 

 

McGrath - "Can't teach bowlers how to bowl faster, it has to come naturally"

 

Despite being the ostensible brand ambassador of accurate-sans-express-pace bowling, McGrath opposes the school of tho­ught that speedsters need to slow down in order to gain more control. “I disagree with that. One thing that comes naturally is pa­ce. You can’t teach bowlers to ch­urn out 150-plus kmph deliveries. You may be able to get some more out of their action, and make a 135 bowler touch 140 or so. But, you can’t get the same guy to 150-plus. I hate seeing bowlers slow do­wn. I’d rather that they work mo­re and develop control at the same pace. You should try and bo­wl as quick as you can. I did try, but I couldn’t get to the 15­0­s.”

http://www.newindianexpress.com/sport/cricket/2016/aug/30/Cant-teach-bowlers-how-to-bowl-faster-it-has-to-come-naturally-says-McGrath-1514298.html?pm=326

 

SteynAsserting that a fast bowler requires pace for flourishing in the international cricket, South Africa spearhead Dale Steyn believes that extreme pace cannot be taught. “Pace is the most important thing. That is the one thing that I have had throughout my whole career. I am turning 33 this year and I am still bowling 145-150 km per hour. It is something you cannot get rid of. It is something which you cannot coach. You are born with it,”  

http://www.cricketcountry.com/news/dale-steyn-extreme-pace-cannot-be-taught-438815


 

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thx 

But you do believe that pace can be learnt later on  and the icf saying that the first thing that matters in a youngster is pace(because it can't be taught or learnt )...everything else can be taught is not always right.

 

If Bhuvi can increase pace...then other focused,dedicated and hard working bowlers can also increase pace if required.

 

Agreed but its rare among Indian pacers to increase their pace once they debut rather the opposite happens lol that's why we always backs and wants a bowler with natural pace.

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1 hour ago, Pollack said:

I don't rate Aron. Umesh is O.K. He wasn't suited for a shorter format  for a long time. Even now may not. He did not vary pace , bowl Yorkers etc in death. Now he does. In any case where did I compare him to others. From where did Umesh and Aron come into discussion when I wasn't at all comparing.

Let's say right now if you are picking a 16 member short format squad for (say a WC) with 5 pacers, wouldn't Sandeep merit a selection in that squad? That's sort of where comparison with Umesh and Aaron came in. My contention is that Sandeep deserves to be in the short format squad/plans based on his performances whereas some others have stated that Aaron and Umesh should be ahead of him. By my contention the only other pacers ahead of Sandeep at the moment are: Bhuvi, Bumrah and possibly Shami (if fit).

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Let's say right now if you are picking a 16 member short format squad for (say a WC) with 5 pacers, wouldn't Sandeep merit a selection in that squad? That's sort of where comparison with Umesh and Aaron came in. My contention is that Sandeep deserves to be in the short format squad/plans based on his performances whereas some others have stated that Aaron and Umesh should be ahead of him. By my contention the only other pacers ahead of Sandeep at the moment are: Bhuvi, Bumrah and possibly Shami (if fit).

 

Nope .Sandeep wouldn't .

 

Shami , Bumrah , Pandya and Bhuvi will be automatic choices .Fifth should be between the likes of Umesh , Aaron ,Thampi etc because they offer something different with their raw pace.Or a leftie like Saran or Ankeet for the same reason (offer something different)

 

We already have 2 quality new ball bowlers + Pandya who does swing the ball.

 

There is no use in picking a bowler like Sandeep who becomes a liability after the 10over.

 

The only way Sandeep should be picked is if we play in somewhere like England conditions and Bhuvi is missing through injury.As a sort of like of like replacement .Otherwise he simply doesn't have a place in the squad.

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1 minute ago, BeautifulGame said:

 

Nope .Sandeep wouldn't .

 

Shami , Bumrah , Pandya and Bhuvi will be automatic choices .Fifth should be between the likes of Umesh , Aaron ,Thampi etc because they offer something different with their raw pace.Or a leftie like Saran or Ankeet for the same reason (offer something different)

 

We already have 2 quality new ball bowlers + Pandya who does swing the ball.

 

There is no use in picking a bowler like Sandeep who becomes a liability after the 10over.

 

The only way Sandeep should be picked is if we play in somewhere like England conditions and Bhuvi is missing through injury.As a sort of like of like replacement .Otherwise he simply doesn't have a place in the squad.

That's where we disagree. Players need to be picked based on performances and not based on offering "something different". Impeccable control over line and length coupled with swing trumps "raw pace".

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That's where we disagree. Players need to be picked based on performances and not based on offering "something different". Impeccable control over line and length coupled with swing trumps "raw pace".

 

 

 

 

All of them have performance to back it up to various degrees.

 

 

The key is picking the squad and correct composition for succeeding.

 

 

If we wanna just pick up purely on stats ,the so called merit , our bowling attack in test cricket would have been Rishi Dhawan Vinay Kumar and Johinder Sharma through the years.

 

 

I am also not a firm believer in pace over everything .But can't just pick someone because he has stats particularly for a fast bowler.

 

 

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Just now, BeautifulGame said:

 

All of them have performance to back it up to various degrees.

 

The key is picking the squad and correct composition for succeeding.

 

If we wanna just pick up purely on stats ,the so called merit , our bowling attack in test cricket would have been Rishi Dhawan Vinay Kumar and Johinder Sharma .

 

I am also not a firm believer in pace over everything .But can't just pick someone because he has stats particularly for a fast bowler.

 

All the bowlers you mentioned - Rishi Dhawan, Vinay Kumar etc. - were found out in IPL. Sandeep is the only one who has succeeded and has outbowled others. It's not just domestic List A stats. You can see his performances in IPL. If he has been able to succeed at every level, including IPL, where ithers like Vinay Kumar, Dinda, Aaron, Rishi Dhawan etc. have been found out surely he is doing something right and deserves a decent chance at the next level :dontknow: 

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28 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

All the bowlers you mentioned - Rishi Dhawan, Vinay Kumar etc. - were found out in IPL. Sandeep is the only one who has succeeded and has outbowled others. It's not just domestic List A stats. You can see his performances in IPL. If he has been able to succeed at every level, including IPL, where ithers like Vinay Kumar, Dinda, Aaron, Rishi Dhawan etc. have been found out surely he is doing something right and deserves a decent chance at the next level :dontknow: 

Sandeep is good but could be seen as an option later. I would love to even see him in test in swinging English conditions like how we picked Praveen Kumar and he did well there.

 

But currently, for CT, our first choice should be Bumrah, Bhuvi and Shami. Yes these three should be ideal. 

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53 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

Sandeep is good but could be seen as an option later. I would love to even see him in test in swinging English conditions like how we picked Praveen Kumar and he did well there.

 

But currently, for CT, our first choice should be Bumrah, Bhuvi and Shami. Yes these three should be ideal. 

 

CT may be too late to blood a youngster but the WC is in 2019. Surely if we need to build bench strength and see which players can cut it at intl level. Sandeep deserves to get a couple of bilateral series for us to find out. if likes of Dinda, Vinay Kumar, Sran etc. can be given series with the Indian team surely Sandeep deserves a chance too.

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9 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

 

CT may be too late to blood a youngster but the WC is in 2019. Surely if we need to build bench strength and see which players can cut it at intl level. Sandeep deserves to get a couple of bilateral series for us to find out. if likes of Dinda, Vinay Kumar, Sran etc. can be given series with the Indian team surely Sandeep deserves a chance too.

He does, but BCCi these days pick players based on popularity on social media. U fortunately people don't rate him even on ICF because he doesn't have pace.

 

They call him trundler here.

 

I would give such players a game in England instead of blindly picking a bowler who bows faster than him. Sandeep got skills. If bowling over 140ks is a skill, then so is bowling 125-130ks with regular swing is, which Sandeep has.

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4 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

He does, but BCCi these days pick players based on popularity on social media. U fortunately people don't rate him even on ICF because he doesn't have pace.

 

Tey call him trundler here.

 

I would give such players the game in England instead of blindly picking a bowler who bows faster than him. Sandeep got skills. If bowling over 140ks is a skill, then so is bowling 125-130ks with regular swing is, which Sandeep has.

Couldn't agree more. Looks like controlled line and length bowling which gives the desired results is of no value anymore :sad: 

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4 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

Couldn't agree more. Looks like controlled line and length bowling which gives the desired results is of no value anymore :sad: 

I like pace bur doesn't mean someone bowling 130ks is a piece of shyt bowler like how they make a bowler wilth 130k speed look like here on ICF. It is not as is if he is bowling at a spinners speed or at Rajat Bhatia's speed. 130k is pretty fast too if any of these people have actually played competitive cricket, they would know. Yes it is not as fast as 145, but 130ks with good swing is pretty good even for international level. 

 

Yes, we need faster bowers to develop a culture and I agree on yhag  but thatts another topic, but that doesn't mean we keeep on ignoring skillful bowlers like Bhuvi or Sandeep.

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1 hour ago, Cricketics said:

I like pace bur doesn't mean someone bowling 130ks is a piece of shyt bowler like how they make a bowler wilth 130k speed look like here on ICF. It is not as is if he is bowling at a spinners speed or at Rajat Bhatia's speed. 130k is pretty fast too if any of these people have actually played competitive cricket, they would know. Yes it is not as fast as 145, but 130ks with good swing is pretty good even for international level. 

 

Yes, we need faster bowers to develop a culture and I agree on yhag  but thatts another topic, but that doesn't mean we keeep on ignoring skillful bowlers like Bhuvi or Sandeep.

Coz at 130k on flat pitches, batsman step down n make their own length. 

Also such bowlers worries a captain as they are not at all effective with old ball and death overs. Thats were bhuvi was given long spells at start when he came in as his death bowling was ineffective . 

Now he has increased his pace n death bowling has become really effective. 

 

Its not only about pace, but with low pace u need a lot more skills to compensate

Pollock mcgrath werent only line n length........they had height, wrist that got them extra bounce , variations. 

 

In england, whats diff in england thoese are roads...absolute pattas.......were sandeep can be carted around 

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3 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Coz at 130k on flat pitches, batsman step down n make their own length. 

Also such bowlers worries a captain as they are not at all effective with old ball and death overs. Thats were bhuvi was given long spells at start when he came in as his death bowling was ineffective . 

Now he has increased his pace n death bowling has become really effective. 

 

Its not only about pace, but with low pace u need a lot more skills to compensate

Pollock mcgrath werent only line n length........they had height, wrist that got them extra bounce , variations. 

 

In england, whats diff in england thoese are roads...absolute pattas.......were sandeep can be carted around 

Most bowlers these days bowl slower at death barring bowling one short ball fast, thats about. Bats love pace bowlers in the death and even guys like Steyn have been smacked with 3-4 sixes at death and since then have changed the way they have bowled.

 

I know in India they don't broadcast series from NZ but you could have see  how South African fast bowlers and Nz fast bowlers bowled at death all six balls in the last few overs in the death on small nz ground in the recent NZ/RSA ODI series. 

 

Southie actually bowled every ball at 120-130ks and Boult too won the game through that actually on flat pitches.

 

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1 hour ago, Ultimate_Game said:

Couldn't agree more. Looks like controlled line and length bowling which gives the desired results is of no value anymore :sad: 

Plzz get me mcgraths n pollocks ......m happy to throw umesh yadav out for them

Its a lot lot lot more than line n length.......

All this krishna das, mohit, anureet, dhawal, vinay kumar, kaul bowl good line n length coz they dnt have pace so its easy for them to have control but still make them bowl against Abdv, warner n many ..........those batsman will dance on the pitch and their pace will allow the batsman enough time to do so . 

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4 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

He's been one of the best pacers during PP overs. Has a pretty low ER and consistently picks up a wkt or two.

33 wickets from 33 matches in the last 3 seasons.  Not the stats of a consistent wicket-taker.

 

His ER has been 8.6 so far this season.

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Plzz get me mcgraths n pollocks ......m happy to throw umesh yadav out for them

Its a lot lot lot more than line n length.......

All this krishna das, mohit, anureet, dhawal, vinay kumar, kaul bowl good line n length coz they dnt have pace so its easy for them to have control but still make them bowl against Abdv, warner n many ..........those batsman will dance on the pitch and their pace will allow the batsman enough time to do so . 

 

Exactly bro couldn't agree more.

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1 minute ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Plzz get me mcgraths n pollocks ......m happy to throw umesh yadav out for them

Its a lot lot lot more than line n length.......

All this krishna das, mohit, anureet, dhawal, vinay kumar, kaul bowl good line n length coz they dnt have pace so its easy for them to have control but still make them bowl against Abdv, warner n many ..........those batsman will dance on the pitch and their pace will allow the batsman enough time to do so . 

But here's the thing. All the bowlers you have mentioned have been found out in the IPL and their stats reflect the same. But Sandeep has managed to succeed. Sandeep has come up against top batsmen in PP overs in IPL and has held his own. So there must be something different and he must be doing something right. Either way it calls for him to be given an opportunity.

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5 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

Most bowlers these days bowl slower at death barring bowling one short ball fast, thats about. Bats love pace bowlers in the death and even guys like Steyn have been smacked with 3-4 sixes at death and since then have changed the way they have bowled.

 

I know in India they don't broadcast series from NZ but you could have see  how South African fast bowlers and Nz fast bowlers bowled at death all six balls in the last few overs in the death on small nz ground in the recent NZ/RSA ODI series. 

 

Southie actually bowled every ball at 120-130ks and Boult too won the game through that actually on flat pitches.

 

Agreed they ball slow, but a 140k bowler bowling slow ball makes sense as its a huge change for batsman and thats what deceives him........but when likes of dhawal from 130k bowl 120k how much is the deception 

 

NZ n SA bowlers hve height and they use their shoulder while hitting the deck.....all those guys hit 140k so the slower cozes huge decption. 

Southee again has height and bowls 140K+ so his slower balls are more effective , boult same......

Those guys use their shoulder as well to get extra bounce tooo 

Remeber those guys have height, shoulder and their top and avg pace is way higher than our bowlers. 

 

M not against slower ball or something , some one like Mcgrath n pollock used it to gr8 effect. Again they might not have high pace but they had height, wrist and shoulder. Also those guys didnt had to suffer from 2 new ball issue

 

Why do u think irfan pathan was selected, he bowls good line n length, still gets swing and has slowers ones to ......did well in doemstic to . He has experience to and most of all he adds batting......

 

U knw why his pace has dropped and that package doesnt work anymore in the day n age of big bats, small ground and dancing batsman 

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6 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Plzz get me mcgraths n pollocks ......m happy to throw umesh yadav out for them

Its a lot lot lot more than line n length.......

All this krishna das, mohit, anureet, dhawal, vinay kumar, kaul bowl good line n length coz they dnt have pace so its easy for them to have control but still make them bowl against Abdv, warner n many ..........those batsman will dance on the pitch and their pace will allow the batsman enough time to do so . 

But how exactly are you going to find someone if not given a chance? :dontknow: 

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12 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

Most bowlers these days bowl slower at death barring bowling one short ball fast, thats about. Bats love pace bowlers in the death and even guys like Steyn have been smacked with 3-4 sixes at death and since then have changed the way they have bowled.

 

I know in India they don't broadcast series from NZ but you could have see  how South African fast bowlers and Nz fast bowlers bowled at death all six balls in the last few overs in the death on small nz ground in the recent NZ/RSA ODI series. 

 

Southie actually bowled every ball at 120-130ks and Boult too won the game through that actually on flat pitches.

 

Ill give u an example of what pace can do 

Check abdv dismissal in CT2013 against india wen he went down the track to hit umesh and got beaten for pace

He tried the same thing against arvind in Dharamshala t20 2015 and that went for the 6.......

 

Only diff was pace 

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Just now, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Agreed they ball slow, but a 140k bowler bowling slow ball makes sense as its a huge change for batsman and thats what deceives him........but when likes of dhawal from 130k bowl 120k how much is the deception 

 

NZ n SA bowlers hve height and they use their shoulder while hitting the deck.....all those guys hit 140k so the slower cozes huge decption. 

Southee again has height and bowls 140K+ so his slower balls are more effective , boult same......

Those guys use their shoulder as well to get extra bounce tooo 

Remeber those guys have height, shoulder and their top and avg pace is way higher than our bowlers. 

 

M not against slower ball or something , some one like Mcgrath n pollock used it to gr8 effect. Again they might not have high pace but they had height, wrist and shoulder. Also those guys didnt had to suffer from 2 new ball issue

 

Why do u think irfan pathan was selected, he bowls good line n length, still gets swing and has slowers ones to ......did well in doemstic to . He has experience to and most of all he adds batting......

 

U knw why his pace has dropped and that package doesnt work anymore in the day n age of big bats, small ground and dancing batsman 

How many slow balls are they bowling is the question. Since we do not have bowlers doing that often then until then we can pick and try a guy like Sandeep Sharma. Heck we have tried players like Dhawal, so why not someone like Sandeep once in a while. We play too much ODI cricket to not teg such bowlers at least for few games.

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Just now, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Ill give u an example of what pace can do 

Check abdv dismissal in CT2013 against india wen he went down the track to hit umesh and got beaten for pace

He tried the same thing against arvind in Dharamshala t20 2015 and that went for the 6.......

 

Only diff was pace 

Of course pace makes a difference man and so does slow seamers, we can't pick and chose old dismissals. That wah an can mention all associate bowlers taking wickets against top players as most associate bowlers boel 125-135ks.

 

It is about bowling consistently good line and length. How often any bowler can do that be it a really fast bowler or a medium pace bowler is the question. 

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2 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

But how exactly are you going to find someone if not given a chance? :dontknow: 

If such bowlers exsisted in our setup they wud have been on radar by now ........

U have any one like them

Tall, hit the deck hard kind of seam bowlers

Immaculate line n length

Variations n good yorkers

flexible wrist that gets extra bounce

 

I dnt see anyone like them in domestic........those guys also bowled at good enough pace when they came in BTW.

 

Find me few like them n ill make their threads......or even 1 like them. Ishant had most bases covered.....but didnt improve a bit 

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McGrath was a 145+ bowler when he started.

After 6-7 years of experience in international he was skillful enough to operate in 130s.

In 2005 when he was about to retire, he was still bowling 135+

watch from 4:00

 

 

Thinking that we can get a bowler of McGrath's skills after 6-7 years, straight from Ranji Trophy is pure daydreaming.

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2 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

How many slow balls are they bowling is the question. Since we do not have bowlers doing that often then until then we can pick and try a guy like Sandeep Sharma. Heck we have tried players like Dhawal, so why not someone like Sandeep once in a while. We play too much ODI cricket to not teg such bowlers at least for few games.

But has he earned it????

Let him get a lot of wkts in domestic n perform on A tours or Zimb tour when he gets a chance

Right now there is a huge line ahead of him......

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1 minute ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

But has he earned it????

Let him get a lot of wkts in domestic n perform on A tours or Zimb tour when he gets a chance

Right now there is a huge line ahead of him......

Yes no one saying right now, just throwing out names who could be looked at. Only 3 guys are mentioned by me.

 

My attack is Bumrah-Bhuvi-Shami for CT

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4 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

But how exactly are you going to find someone if not given a chance? :dontknow: 

Praveen Kumar averaged 25 in test matches but played only around 6 test matches with Dhoni as captain.

 

Why do you think that happened ? 

 

Because he lacked pace and bounce.

 

These kind of dibbly-dobbly seamers won't  be selected for long no matter who the captain or coach is.  It does not matter what ICF thinks.

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4 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Praveen Kumar averaged 25 in test matches but played only around 6 test matches with Dhoni as captain.

 

Why do you think that happened ? 

 

Because he lacked pace and bounce.

 

These kind of dibbly-dobbly seamers won't  be selected for long no matter who the captain or coach is.  It does not matter what ICF thinks.

PK played only in ENg n WI

ENg offers swing, ideal for his bowling and always regd him as smart bowler so he did exploit them well. 

In WI, there is some swing offer at times.....but biggest advantage for PK in WI is those batsman who have no footwork and has t20 technique so they struggle against swing bowlers. 

 

PK test would have been in SA, Aus (were he would have struggled once kookabura went old) India (were he wont have been able to reverse due to less pace) 

Edited by Ankit_sharma03

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5 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Praveen Kumar averaged 25 in test matches but played only around 6 test matches with Dhoni as captain.

 

Why do you think that happened ? 

 

Because he lacked pace and bounce.

 

These kind of dibbly-dobbly seamers won't  be selected for long no matter who the captain or coach is.  It does not matter what ICF thinks.

Thats the whole idea, horses for courses. Use a bowler who is right for certain places like PK was used then in England and then don't pick them where others could do better. 

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2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

PK played only in ENg n WI

ENg offers swing, ideal for his bowling and always regd him as smart bowler so he did exploit them well. 

In WI, there is some swing offer at times.....but biggest advantage for PK in WI is those batsman who have no footwork and has t20 technique so they struggle against swing bowlers. 

 

PK test would have been in SA, Aus (were he would have struggled once kookabura went old) India (were he wont have been able to reverse due to less pace) 

I know all that. Just pointed out that Praveen did not get a chance to even fail in another test match in any other country, because he was dibbly-dobbly.

 

There is no point making a case for these bowlers.... they are simply not picked for long in international cricket unless they are allrounders.

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4 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

Thats the whole idea, horses for courses. Use a bowler who is right for certain places like PK was used then in England and then don't pick them where others could do better. 

PK was not picked for tours to NZ or SA or subsequent tours to England and WI where he might have succeeded again.

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8 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

Yes, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't have been picked in the first place where he actually did well.

The point was not whether he should have been originally picked.

 

The point I made was that these dibbly-dobbly seamers rarely last for long in international cricket unless they add other dimensions to their bowling.

 

We already have a good swing bowler in Bhuvi and lots of young fast bowlers.  It will be very difficult in real life for Sandeep to get in the team.

Edited by express bowling

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Just now, express bowling said:

The point was not whether he should have not been originally picked.

 

The point I made was that these seamers rarely last for long in international cricket unless they add other dimensions to their bowling.

 

We already have a good swing bowler in Bhuvi and lots of young fast bowlers.  It will be very difficult in real life for Sandeep to get in the team.

In ODi's he can if ever Bhuvi is not available or needs to be rested ever. We will be playing a lot of ODI's always and if Sandeep ever can be given chance, he can be tried a year or something from now in ODi's first. Not right now though, just that he should be kept in mind. Of course others are ahead of him in both the formats.

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5 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

In ODi's he can if ever Bhuvi is not available or needs to be rested ever. We will be playing a lot of ODI's always and if Sandeep ever can be given chance, he can be tried a year or something from now in ODi's first. Not right now though, just that he should be kept in mind. Of course others are ahead of him in both the formats.

Sandeep is not a good death bowler as of now. Does not have a reliable yorker or slower ball.

 

Basil Thampi and Shardul Thakur look like more complete packages, with good yorkers, bouncers, slower balls, slower bouncers etc.  for the purpose of creating a few more ODI and T20 pacers.

 

 

Edited by express bowling

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5 hours ago, beetle said:

thx 

But you do believe that pace can be learnt later on  and the icf saying that the first thing that matters in a youngster is pace(because it can't be taught or learnt )...everything else can be taught is not always right.

Not only ICF, watch many interviews of gr8 fast bowlers they ll say the same . 

YEs pace can be increased but bhuvi did have a decent pace when he came in to.......he was always faster then these dibbly dobblies. 

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4 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Sandeep is not a good death bowler as of now. Does not have a reliable yorker or slower ball.

 

Basil Thampi and Shardul Thakur look like more complete packages, with good yorkers, bouncers, slower balls, slower bouncers etc.  for the purpose of creating a few more ODI and T20 pacers.

 

 

Like I said others are ahead, so of course Thampi is ahead of him by long distsnce since we can use him anywhere. Just that over time you need lt od odi options as Shami can not by any means last long and also Bumrah needs to be rotated even though he is just ODI specialist.

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9 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

Like I said others are ahead, so of course Thampi is ahead of him by long distsnce since we can use him anywhere. Just that over time you need lt od odi options as Shami can not by any means last long and also Bumrah needs to be rotated even though he is just ODI specialist.

Lots of young talent coming through. Apart from Thampi and Shardul, even Khejroliya and Nathu have great yorkers and have done well on domestic 50 over and 20 over tournaments respectively.

 

Kumble has specifically mentioned Thampi, Nathu and Aniket as future Indian quicks.....that means they are the ones in the reckoning. 

 

MSK Prasad,  chief sector, has said that he has identified 15 future pacers and all can bowl 140 k +.  That means Sandeep is not in the list.

Edited by express bowling

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Just now, express bowling said:

Lots of young talent coming through. Apart from Thampi and Shardul, even Khejroliya and Nathu have great yorkers and have done well on domestic 50 over and 20 over tournaments respectively.

 

Kumble has specifically mentioned Thampi, Nathu and Aniket as future Indian quicks.....that means they are the one in the reckoning. 

 

MSK Prasad,  chief sector, has said that he has identified 15 future pacers and all can bowl 140 k +.  That means Sandeep is not in the list.

Msk Prasad,, the 15 he identified is good thing but that list usually changes it someone new is bowling well suddenly, won't mean he will still not fit in his fifteen or won't be considered.

 

 

It is one thing to identiy 15 which he he has done well but other thing to keep mentioning. Those players will surely be considered and be closely looked at by selectors but outsiders like Sandeep and even others could be consudered if they have a special season. Kind of like same thing for bats for test matches. Iyer is ahead of all but if Panchal continues to score like a machine, he won't be ignore and will get his chance probably. 

 

Kulwant now needs to be regularly given chances as he looked class apart in Vijay Hazare trophy.  And Mumbai needs to olay him regularly, at least I hope they do. 

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