Should BCCI send the Indian team to CT or No?

[horizonspeaks]

Before we go deep, tell me first if you understand the entire proposal?

1) India gets peanuts share

2) Indias calendar is getting blocked by mandatory international matches which would block them from expanding IPL. 

 

How oe to address 1& 2 and still stay in ICC.

[sandeep]

1 hour ago, Cricketics said:

The longer we host IPl, people will start to lose interest and people in India will stop coming to the grounds as not every one has money growing in their backyard to go and pay for tickets to every game.

 

This current IPl set up is good. We can't have more home cricket than this.

Disagree.  Season can easily be a couple of weeks longer right now - and its not about ground attendance - its about net TV revenues.  Grounds do not need to sell out for IPL to be profitable.  Ratings are obscenely high.   Market interest has to be sufficiently high and widespread to support team expansion - India's geography and demography means that this is not an issue at all.   All leagues start out with small number of teams.  Look at Baseball, NFL in the US - read up on their history.   As long as the Indian economy is growing, IPL expansion is a slam-dunk.  And the incremental cost of adding teams is peanuts - we already have stadiums to spare all over the country.  16 teams by 2030 - I'm willing to bet you thousands of dollars on that eventuality.  

[Muloghonto]

9 minutes ago, sandeep said:

That's not realistic.  IPL can't go from 8 weeks to 6 months overnight.  It would have be a lot gradual than that.  Expansion is inevitable - everyone in cricket knows it already.  

 

No crazy emotional instant boycotts.  Need a more coherent well thought out plan than that.   

It can easily happen for 2018 IPL. 

Thats more than a year from now. If IPL window is increased to 6 months, we'd have no problem floating another 2-3 teams and poaching top six players of each and every nation permanently. Even if CA gives someone like Steven Smith an ultimatum, what do you think ? he is going to take 400K per year from CA and turn down 10M from an IPL franchise ?!?

[horizonspeaks]

2 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

The longer we host IPl, people will start to lose interest and people in India will stop coming to the grounds as not every one has money growing in their backyard to go and pay for tickets to every game.

 

This current IPl set up is good. We can't have more home cricket than this.

Surveys say ipl has double viewership in weekends than in weekdays. So moving ipl to Friday, Saturday, Sunday will double the viewership. Furthermore, EPL and NFL are hosted for longer and people don't lose interest in those. As I mentioned in the other thread, Indians cannot lose if we come out of ICCs current proposal.

[Muloghonto]

5 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

The longer we host IPl, people will start to lose interest and people in India will stop coming to the grounds as not every one has money growing in their backyard to go and pay for tickets to every game.

 

This current IPl set up is good. We can't have more home cricket than this.

As North American sports show, there is plenty of money to be made by league style games. If NHL can fill out an arena of 20K people for 41 game home season spanning six months, IPL will also have no problem. 
If anything, it will further entrench IPL as people's loyalties will further entrench into franchise loyalties, same way how we have North American franchise loyalty bases.

 

[veer]

17 minutes ago, wanted_desi said:

When you are getting 10% of share when you bring 80% of income is beyond fair. I am not big fan of BCCI, but this is just ridiculous. 

are those real numbers or you are making it up?

[horizonspeaks]

For 2018, 10 teams home and away, weekend only makes it 90 match I.e. 15 week tournament. If you add 2/3 more weekends for final round, then it comes to more than 4 months. 

[maniac]

No Arrogance here.....If we bow down once,we will be expected to bend down always..

 

Champions Trophy has been one of the worst and pointless tournaments ever and was rightfully almost scrapped...even last tournament,really didn't care for the most part till India won which is always A-OK in my book.

 

Sure I will watch any cricket out there except may be Tamasha leagues bar IPL,but I am not that desperate that I want to see stupid Champions Trophy at the point of losing pride.

 

No Arrogance here....in fact the votes speak for themselves,not a single Indian who voted here gainsa single penny  by supporting BCCI, and obviously they are voting on a forum called Indian cricket fans which makes them hardcore fans of cricket but despite that they are willing to sacrifice the cricket...because it is a matter of pride...why should we bullied....why should we give our money to others?

 

Yeah Sure the babus are corrupt and the extra revenue will be eaten up by them....so let it be even if they spend 20% of it it's a lot of money and even if they pocket the remaining 80% surplus,they might build an extra house or get a hand made diamond necklace that will generate more revenue for Indians....any way that is little over reaching.

 

The Point being.....* ICC.....They need to listen to us or at least meet us 90% of the way else time to teach them a lesson....Look at Pakistani they beg for a series with India like it is the be all and end all because that is what is gets them the real $$$...we have no friends clearly based on what we saw so we can make them our bitches...period.

 

No arrogance here...stand up for India  somethings are more important than cricket.

 

[Zap_Brannigan]

Whats good for the rest of the boards and whats good for the BCCI/Indian cricket is different. Since majority of the money is made by advertising during indian cricket matches, the only way to get this money by the other boards is stealing. And BCCI is letting them.

 

Such incompetent slobs. When Srini or dalmiya were there, they always thought about indian cricket first and made moves to make Indian cricket grow. Now, these stupid supreme court has lost it all. 

 

India should pull out of champions trophy now. without india, Star would reduce the amount of money it pays just like in 2007 WC. BCCI should then grow IPL, look for multi-team tournaments without ICC and stop doing favors to other boards. 

[maniac]

9 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Disagree.  Season can easily be a couple of weeks longer right now - and its not about ground attendance - its about net TV revenues.  Grounds do not need to sell out for IPL to be profitable.  Ratings are obscenely high.   Market interest has to be sufficiently high and widespread to support team expansion - India's geography and demography means that this is not an issue at all.   All leagues start out with small number of teams.  Look at Baseball, NFL in the US - read up on their history.   As long as the Indian economy is growing, IPL expansion is a slam-dunk.  And the incremental cost of adding teams is peanuts - we already have stadiums to spare all over the country.  16 teams by 2030 - I'm willing to bet you thousands of dollars on that eventuality.  

Well 16 teams might sound pretty straightforward on paper given the amount of Indian billionaires itching to have a piece of the pie and the demand being there....is there enough talent supply available out there to fill the demand? I think if they could,it can already be 12-14 teams easily right now but quality might be compromised.

 

Having said that IPL is big enough for BCCI to self-sustain any boycott and rebellion and I am with you on that

[horizonspeaks]

2 minutes ago, maniac said:

Well 16 teams might sound pretty straightforward on paper given the amount of Indian billionaires itching to have a piece of the pie and the demand being there....is there enough talent supply available out there to fill the demand? I think if they could,it can already be 12-14 teams easily right now but quality might be compromised.

 

Having said that IPL is big enough for BCCI to self-sustain any boycott and rebellion and I am with you on that

Without the court and match fixing scandal, it would already have been 10 teams, if not 12. 

[maniac]

2 minutes ago, horizonspeaks said:

Without the court and match fixing scandal, it would already have been 10 teams, if not 12. 

I am sure...all I am saying is is there enough talent out there even internationally to fill spots for so many teams. Even this year when some marquee players were injured teams went back to Pathan and Ishant,but any way guess that's a different topic...I guess overall we are on the same page

 

[Muloghonto]

13 minutes ago, horizonspeaks said:

For 2018, 10 teams home and away, weekend only makes it 90 match I.e. 15 week tournament. If you add 2/3 more weekends for final round, then it comes to more than 4 months. 

Just some thinking out aloud here:

Say 16 teams, with 1 home and 1 away match versus each team. That leads to 30 matches per team. 
Make the schedule so that they play 3 matches per week. a Friday-Sunday-wednesday or a Saturday-Sunday-Thursday alternating schedule for eg. This means 10 weeks of league IPL at minimum. More likely 12 weeks due to logistics. 

Then 8 teams qualify for QF-->SF-->F style knockouts.  Lets say 1 week for all the QFs, 1 week for SF +Finals. SF on friday-saturday, final on sunday late afternoon. 
Thats 14 weeks right there, easy peasy. 

[Malcolm Merlyn]

48 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

The meeting is done and no one agrees with our proposal and we have lost the battle by 8-2 voting. This means majority do not agree with us.

 

You think it is time to accept and move on or you think it is time to still not send teams and continue to show arrogance?

 

Indian fans keep saying world cricket can't continue without BCCI and India, well it could be somewhat true but it continued before also when BCCi werent superpower.

 

Is it time to accept the reality instead of asking to not participate in champions trophy like a cry baby?

 

 

Stop thinking like a fan. You have never seen the lower levels of cricket in India.How cricketers used to survive and how BCCI has used the money to uplift them.The BCCI worked years to work to a position where the White boards couldnot treat them with disdain.Think what would have happened to Bhajji in 2008 or Sachin in 2001 if BCCI didnt have its power.The ICC wants to take away that power so that ECB and CA can rule again.

 

Read some cricketing history TICS.Its not possible for me to educate you on this.Just for starters, ICC was a very poor board before Dalmiya took over.Since 2002 India is contributing atleast 50% of ICC revenues.Before that Cricket was very poor sport.The rise of India as a economic power and the cricket market in it has caused the ICC to earn this much revenue.

 

The vote is what it is because ICC has been cutting BCCI's share and giving it to the other boards to buy the votes. Today only Zimbabwe was promised a extra 19mn USD.Where will this 19mn come from?whose share?

 

Once BCCI doesnt participate,the revenues will fall by atleast 50% if not more.Will see then how ICC buys these votes.

 

 

The money demanded by BCCI is rightfully theirs. 20% share for someone who brings 80% revenue is perfectly fair.You have to fight the unjust and not accept it.Fighting unjust isnt being a cry baby, its about preserving your dignity.

 

I dont mind BCCI pulling out of CT or other ICC events if this preserves Indian Cricket in the long term.

[Ultimate_Game]

@Cricketicsyour poll options are incorrect. Both option assume it's BCCI and Indian fans' "arrogance". No, it's not. Fact is India generates nearly 75-80% of the global cricketing revenue and as such would expect returns based on the same given India has the largest Infrastructure to maintain and as such would need the revenue it was asking for. After all the revenue needs to support cricketing infrastructure across a vast country with 1.3 billion people! Not an easy or cheap thing to do.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Ultimate_Game

[sandeep]

28 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Just some thinking out aloud here:

Say 16 teams, with 1 home and 1 away match versus each team. That leads to 30 matches per team. 
Make the schedule so that they play 3 matches per week. a Friday-Sunday-wednesday or a Saturday-Sunday-Thursday alternating schedule for eg. This means 10 weeks of league IPL at minimum. More likely 12 weeks due to logistics. 

Then 8 teams qualify for QF-->SF-->F style knockouts.  Lets say 1 week for all the QFs, 1 week for SF +Finals. SF on friday-saturday, final on sunday late afternoon. 
Thats 14 weeks right there, easy peasy. 

 

For 12 or more teams - you introduce divisions - 6 or 8 teams each.  Each team plays majority of league games within the division, creating rivalries.  Throw in a few cross division games so that each team plays the other at least once in the season.   Playoffs start within the division, and then the division champions can play the finals.  The IPL title final can easily be converted to a multi-game best of 3 or best of 5.  Even the division 'championship' can be similarly multi-game.   Spread the games out a bit so that players are not playing everyday - A 16 team league can easily play from Feb 1st to June 1st.  

 

But that's down the road.  Next year - bring back the Royals and CSK, keep the 2 new franchises - 10 teams can easily be worked into the schedule.  Target schedule expansion so that March and most of february is co-opted into the IPL season.  12 teams should be enough to start the league in late february - doable by 2019 or 2020.  That will be enough to kill off the PSL's delusions of grandeur - and appropriate payback for the PCB's perfidy.  Cricket Australia's BBL ends in January, and they will realize not to phuck with BCCI as well.  

 

Looking at the calender - BBL has Dec-Jan timeframe, and England will be safe as well in August timeframe - unless BCCI really decides to go after them with a staggered season and launches a mini-IPL in that time-frame.   All options are on the table.  

[Malcolm Merlyn]

4 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

@Cricketicsyour poll options are incorrect. Both option assume it's BCC and Indian fans' "arrogance". No, it's not. Fact is India generates nearly 75-80% of the global cricketing revenue and as such would expect returns based on the same given India has the largest Infrastructure to maintain and as such would need the revenue it was asking for. After all the revenue needs to support cricketing infrastructure across a vast country with 1.3 billion people! Not an easy or cheap thing to do.

 

Edited the poll.

[goose]

59 minutes ago, sandeep said:

TL;DR version is - big 3 financial model is scrapped - India's share cut from $570 mm to $290 mm - CA's share stays the same, ECB drops by about 10-12 mm. But ECB excluded earnings from World cup 2019 and Champions trophy when calculating its share.  A few million each were distributed to the likes of SL, WI, NZ, SA to buy their votes.  

Clearly this vote is a bad deal for India. Putting my allegiance to India to one side is this better or worse for the sport and in particular test cricket which is under severe threat.?

[sandeep]

30 minutes ago, Malcolm Merlyn said:

Stop thinking like a fan. You have never seen the lower levels of cricket in India.How cricketers used to survive and how BCCI has used the money to uplift them.The BCCI worked years to work to a position where the White boards couldnot treat them with disdain.Think what would have happened to Bhajji in 2008 or Sachin in 2001 if BCCI didnt have its power.The ICC wants to take away that power so that ECB and CA can rule again.

 

Read some cricketing history TICS.Its not possible for me to educate you on this.Just for starters, ICC was a very poor board before Dalmiya took over.Since 2002 India is contributing atleast 50% of ICC revenues.Before that Cricket was very poor sport.The rise of India as a economic power and the cricket market in it has caused the ICC to earn this much revenue.

 

The vote is what it is because ICC has been cutting BCCI's share and giving it to the other boards to buy the votes. Today only Zimbabwe was promised a extra 19mn USD.Where will this 19mn come from?whose share?

 

Once BCCI doesnt participate,the revenues will fall by atleast 50% if not more.Will see then how ICC buys these votes.

 

 

The money demanded by BCCI is rightfully theirs. 20% share for someone who brings 80% revenue is perfectly fair.You have to fight the unjust and not accept it.Fighting unjust isnt being a cry baby, its about preserving your dignity.

 

I dont mind BCCI pulling out of CT or other ICC events if this preserves Indian Cricket in the long term.

MM, I'm with you on the larger issue - but I don't agree that pulling out of CT really helps India's cause.  Threatening it does, actually pulling out does not.  Not at this late juncture, where we can't come up with a competing cricket event which potentially had Indian participation plus a bunch of players poached off of the other teams.   Its not realistic.  It would be just an emotional move with little or no actual benefit to BCCI.  

[sandeep]

1 minute ago, goose said:

Clearly this vote is a bad deal for India. Putting my allegiance to India to one side is this better or worse for the sport and in particular test cricket which is under severe threat.?

Better or worse for the sport has nothing to do with the financial model.  That's what the propaganda spin is on this - BCCI needs to 'sacrifice' for the better of the sport.  Somehow ECB and CA don't have that responsibility though.  This is just an opportunistic back-room executive power grab, timed to take advantage of BCCI's internal disarray due to the whole Supreme Court intervention.   Rest is all PR spin.