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Dinesh Karthik to replace Manish Pandey for Champions Trophy

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31 minutes ago, kubrickian said:

Bhuvi should be picked above everyone else in the bowling attack. Shami is better than him but its been 2 years since he last played an ODI. So there's no guarantee how he will bowl if he gets picked again. But if he does well in warm ups, they should pick him.

 

Ashwin Vs Pandya depending on the pitch conditions.

Its also been few yrs since bhuvi has bowled well in odis so whats his gurantee

Ashwin vs pandya is nt possible they are not aiming for same role. With yuvi dhoni in side u need extra cushion in battting.

 

Pandya has been decent in death not shyte. He has mostly bowled ib indian condition. 

 

It will be 

Umesh vs bhuvi vs ashwin

 

Ashwin is coming from an injury what gurantee do u have he ll get in rhythem asap.

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Just now, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Its also been few yrs since bhuvi has bowled well in odis so whats his gurantee

Ashwin vs pandya is nt possible they are not aiming for same role. With yuvi dhoni in side u need extra cushion in battting.

 

Pandya has been decent in death not shyte. He has mostly bowled ib indian condition. 

 

It will be 

Umesh vs bhuvi vs ashwin

 

Ashwin is coming from an injury what gurantee do u have he ll get in rhythem asap.

No guarantee but you have to pick based on what you have. Ashwin has played test series and ODIs before his injury. Its not like he is coming from a long layoff. Shami is different from Bhuvi because he had problems with injuries over the past 2 years and not played much test cricket either. Bhuvi has done well in IPL as well and very good at yorkers and bowling at the death. But hopefully Shami will get back to his best in CT because Umesh is generally not a good ODI bowler.

 

Regarding Pandya, he doesnt have a good yorker which is the only way you can stop batsmen at the death nowadays. He reverts to either bowling short or slower deliveries at the death and becomes quite predictable.

 

Bhuvi, Shami, Bumrah, Jadeja and then Ashwin or Pandya depending on conditions.

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1 minute ago, kubrickian said:

No guarantee but you have to pick based on what you have. Ashwin has played test series and ODIs before his injury. Its not like he is coming from a long layoff. Shami is different from Bhuvi because he had problems with injuries over the past 2 years and not played much test cricket either. Bhuvi has done well in IPL as well and very good at yorkers and bowling at the death. But hopefully Shami will get back to his best in CT because Umesh is generally not a good ODI bowler.

 

Regarding Pandya, he doesnt have a good yorker which is the only way you can stop batsmen at the death nowadays. He reverts to either bowling short or slower deliveries at the death and becomes quite predictable.

 

Bhuvi, Shami, Bumrah, Jadeja and then Ashwin or Pandya depending on conditions.

Hardik plays as an all rounder

Does ashwin offer what he offer with bat......no

Their is a huge diff btw their fielding as well

Jaddu at 7 has been a decade long failure 

Why do u need hardik at death when u have 3 good death bowlers is shami, bumrah, bhuvi. Even bhuvi n bumrah have been smashed by a dhoni who is not at his best

 

Now he has developed his bowling, u must have seen his 2016 bowling. He has bowled last over well this ipl.

 

About his short pitch, well eng pitches will have better bounce n longee grounds so same deilveries might lead to wkts. 

 

Pandya has time n again showed how good is he under pressure. Icc tournaments are all about pressure. 

 

Pandya is not only their as a bowler but a tonker as well who cud give u thise extra 20 runs. Ashwin batting isnt of much use in loi unless their is a collapse. Bhajji batting was more useful in loi

 

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1 minute ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Hardik plays as an all rounder

Does ashwin offer what he offer with bat......no

Their is a huge diff btw their fielding as well

Jaddu at 7 has been a decade long failure 

Why do u need hardik at death when u have 3 good death bowlers is shami, bumrah, bhuvi. Even bhuvi n bumrah have been smashed by a dhoni who is not at his best

 

Now he has developed his bowling, u must have seen his 2016 bowling. He has bowled last over well this ipl.

 

About his short pitch, well eng pitches will have better bounce n longee grounds so same deilveries might lead to wkts. 

 

Pandya has time n again showed how good is he under pressure. Icc tournaments are all about pressure. 

 

Pandya is not only their as a bowler but a tonker as well who cud give u thise extra 20 runs. Ashwin batting isnt of much use in loi unless their is a collapse. Bhajji batting was more useful in loi

 

Yeah if you are going to pick Bhuvi, Shami and Bumrah, Pandya can be picked as a seamer all rounder. But if Ashwin gets in because pitch is dry and helping spinners, you may want to pick him and Jadeja in which case Pandya misses out. 

 

Pandya cant be in the lineup if you have only 3 seamers because it would require him to bowl at the death. You have to be deadly accurate if you have to do well in the death overs but he hasnt shown that control.

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9 minutes ago, kubrickian said:

Yeah if you are going to pick Bhuvi, Shami and Bumrah, Pandya can be picked as a seamer all rounder. But if Ashwin gets in because pitch is dry and helping spinners, you may want to pick him and Jadeja in which case Pandya misses out. 

 

Pandya cant be in the lineup if you have only 3 seamers because it would require him to bowl at the death. You have to be deadly accurate if you have to do well in the death overs but he hasnt shown that control.

Didnt we use to maniuplate over when bhuvi started and he was mostly bowled in. 1st spell only as his death bowling was quite below avg. Pandya has bowled in ipl in death. Even if some one gets injured u get umesh again same.prob exsist.

 

What about batting problem which happens when we drop pandya. Deep down we all knw yuvi n dhoni arent same players and jadhav is yet to best tested overseas. 

 

Pandya is a must at this time n he ll feature regulalry. He can only be replaced by an all rounder

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10 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Didnt we use to maniuplate over when bhuvi started and he was mostly bowled in. 1st spell only as his death bowling was quite below avg. Pandya has bowled in ipl in death. Even if some one gets injured u get umesh again same.prob exsist.

 

What about batting problem which happens when we drop pandya. Deep down we all knw yuvi n dhoni arent same players and jadhav is yet to best tested overseas. 

 

Pandya is a must at this time n he ll feature regulalry. He can only be replaced by an all rounder

Bhuvi was not great at the death when he started out but he has improved a lot since getting accurate with yorkers. He always had good control and knows how to bowl to his field. He is definitely a good ODI bowler.

 

If Kedhar is not tested overseas, then we can also say Pandya is not tested overseas as a batsman. Not sure we can guarantee he will add depth to batting. But you can make a case for him as an all rounder if he plays in place of Ashwin.

Edited by kubrickian

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26 minutes ago, kubrickian said:

Yeah if you are going to pick Bhuvi, Shami and Bumrah, Pandya can be picked as a seamer all rounder. But if Ashwin gets in because pitch is dry and helping spinners, you may want to pick him and Jadeja in which case Pandya misses out. 

 

Pandya cant be in the lineup if you have only 3 seamers because it would require him to bowl at the death. You have to be deadly accurate if you have to do well in the death overs but he hasnt shown that control.

You can always finish Pandyas overs before the death and save bumrah bhuvi for the death no?

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3 minutes ago, laaloo said:

You can always finish Pandyas overs before the death and save bumrah bhuvi for the death no?

That would mean Bhuvi and Bumrah can only bowl 5 overs each for the first 40 overs of the game. Besides, if one of them has an off day you need another option. 

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1 hour ago, kubrickian said:

It resembles Pakistani style of picking a side. Going back to tried and tested players because they have more experience as they dont have guts to try out new players at the risk of them failing. Need to have a new selection panel if India has to have a shot at WC.

Totally agree. On flattish Eng surfaces we are seriously lacking in batting firepower. Raina and/or Pant should've been in the squad with Pant in the playing XI as an opener.

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1 hour ago, Ultimate_Game said:

Most of ICF don't think so, only the selectors do. That's why they selected Rahane as the backup opener for "English conditions" whereas most of ICFers wanted Pant to be selected instead.

Rahane has a good ODI record in England. got a match-winning hundred when india won the ODI series there in 2014.

 

the team looks fine, i don't know why people are whining. on paper, its the best team in the tournament. first two games against pak and SL are guaranteed wins, and a guaranteed semi final place.

 

look at the averages they have:

 

Rohit, 41

Dhawan, 40

Kohli, 52

Yuvraj, 37

Dhoni, 50

Kedar, 58

Pandya, 53, bowl 33

Jadeja, 32, 35

Ashwin, 32

Shami, 25

Bumrah, 22

Edited by Manny_Pacquiao

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15 minutes ago, Manny_Pacquiao said:

Rahane has a good ODI record in England. got a match-winning hundred when india won the ODI series there in 2014.

 

the team looks fine, i don't know why people are whining. on paper, its the best team in the tournament. first two games against pak and SL are guaranteed wins, and a guaranteed semi final place.

 

look at the averages they have:

 

Rohit, 41

Dhawan, 40

Kohli, 52

Yuvraj, 37

Dhoni, 50

Kedar, 58

Pandya, 53, bowl 33

Jadeja, 32, 35

Ashwin, 32

Shami, 25

Bumrah, 22

 

Fans are upset because the team is constructed to play ODI cricket in the pre-2015 style.  We don't aim for 370, we aim for 320 - and as a result, consistently come up short against stronger batting teams.  Losing a home series against SA, a home and away ODI series against Aus, WC semifinal -all of these indicate that we are in need of tactical and personnel changes on the batting front.  India have always been a team that wins games with its batting, especially with the white ball.   Currently we are not in the top 3 batting teams in ODIs, and fans want to address this with personnel changes.  

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24 minutes ago, Manny_Pacquiao said:

Rahane has a good ODI record in England. got a match-winning hundred when india won the ODI series there in 2014.

 

the team looks fine, i don't know why people are whining. on paper, its the best team in the tournament. first two games against pak and SL are guaranteed wins, and a guaranteed semi final place.

 

look at the averages they have:

 

Rohit, 41

Dhawan, 40

Kohli, 52

Yuvraj, 37

Dhoni, 50

Kedar, 58

Pandya, 53, bowl 33

Jadeja, 32, 35

Ashwin, 32

Shami, 25

Bumrah, 22

 

Things have changed since 2014, especially post 2015 WC. Teams like Eng, Aus and SA look at scoring 350 these days and we have the same over the hill or tried & tested players. We have regressed since 2014 whereas teams like Eng and Aus have improved drastically.

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11 minutes ago, sandeep said:

 

Fans are upset because the teamda constructed to play ODI cricket in the pre-2015 style.  We don't aiSaffer70, we aim for 320 - and as a result, consistently come up short against stronger batting teams.  Losing a home series against SA, a home and away ODI series against Aus, WC semifinal -all of these indicate that we are in need of tactical and personnel changes on the batting front.  India have always been a team that wins games with its batting, especially with the white ball.   Currently we are not in the top 3 batting teams in ODIs, and fans want to address this with personnel changes.  

Yes, Power players are vital in the one days these days. Australia have got Warner, By the way they also have another guy Travis Head who is a decent player and can smash it around. 

 

England's batting line is very strong in this regard with players like Hales, Butter, Stokes and Jason Roy. 

 

SAF have got AB, QDK and Faf even though they lost Rille Rossow. 

 

BTW Dhawan can't score at 100+ SR?

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1 hour ago, sandeep said:

 

Fans are upset because the team is constructed to play ODI cricket in the pre-2015 style.  We don't aim for 370, we aim for 320 - and as a result, consistently come up short against stronger batting teams.  Losing a home series against SA, a home and away ODI series against Aus, WC semifinal -all of these indicate that we are in need of tactical and personnel changes on the batting front.  India have always been a team that wins games with its batting, especially with the white ball.   Currently we are not in the top 3 batting teams in ODIs, and fans want to address this with personnel changes.  

 

LOL, did you watch the ODI series we played against England? Getting 350 is not a problem. Kohli, Dhoni, Kedar can hose down bowling attacks. kohli is the best ODI batsman in the world by a mile.

 

series loss to SA was a bad one, but the bowling attack has changed since then. series loss in AUS wasn't due to a lack of batting firepower, they lost because the bowling attack was inexperienced. once they get the bowling right, they whitewashed AUS in the t20 series.

 

india's batting lineup pisses on australia's, they have 2 good batsmen: warner and smith. rest of the batting lineup is trash.

England, i'll give you, they're a fantastic one day batting lineup. but their bowling attack bleeds runs, so they're a flawed team.

 

south africa look red hot, but they are a spineless, underachieving team in major ODI tournaments.

 

india will play england in the final.

 

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1 hour ago, Autonomous said:

Yes, Power players are vital in the one days these days. Australia have got Warner, By the way they also have another guy Travis Head who is a decent player and can smash it around. 

 

England's batting line is very strong in this regard with players like Hales, Butter, Stokes and Jason Roy. 

 

SAF have got AB, QDK and Faf even though they lost Rille Rossow. 

 

BTW Dhawan can't score at 100+ SR?

dhawan is an outstanding ODI batsman. odi average of 40+ and SR of 90.

 

people confuse ODIs with t20s, and are forgetting how good dhawan has been for india in the ODI format.

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10 hours ago, tweaker said:

This selection is gutless, they will only select players for short term.They had a perfect opportunity to select a youngster but again they went for tried & tested player.

I don't think the CT is the right tournament to blood new players.

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11 hours ago, The Realist said:

Not surprising given the complete lack of vision by the current selectors.

 

Just keep on recycling the same old on a never ending repeat cycle.

 

 

Only a disastrous exit from CT will make the selectors think of rebuilding the team with youngsters. Even then, I wouldn't be too shocked if they persist with the dad's army team till 2019 WC. Why change an "experienced" team just 2 years before the next world cup, right?

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9 hours ago, kubrickian said:

Pandya is shite at the death. If you are going to play only 2 seamers and Pandya with Ashwin, he will be expensive at the death. That's why Shami, Bhuvi and Bumrah should play. Even Umesh is expensive in death overs.

The first 2 pacers have always bowled the death overs in the last 7 months.... we have never played 3 specialist seamers.

 

Pandya's choice is not as a specialist bowler but a lower-middle order big hitter who can bowl too. We don not have any other such player who can replace him. Ashwin is not a big hitter and can only replace one of the bowlers.

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1 hour ago, nevada said:

Only a disastrous exit from CT will make the selectors think of rebuilding the team with youngsters. Even then, I wouldn't be too shocked if they persist with the dad's army team till 2019 WC. Why change an "experienced" team just 2 years before the next world cup, right?

This selection committee is thinking on the same lines, they will not make changes in the squad before the wc.

 

Only changes will be on the peripheral players ie Jadhav, Pandey.

 

If main players are injured, their replacement may be such that this players can make comeback easily after they get fit.

 

Players ie Parthiv, Karthik, Rayuddu, Mishra, Ishant, Raina, Harbhajan, Nehra, are eternal favourite of this selection committee for such stop gap arrangements

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3 hours ago, cowboysfan said:

I don't think the CT is the right tournament to blood new players.

Say that to Yuvraj and zaheer who both made their debut in ct/ icc knockout trophy and were highly successful. 

Not saying you should pick a team full of youngsters,but if there is a special talent then even if he is 17 you should blood him asap

Edited by OpeningBatsman

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I am not Dinesh Karthik's biggest fan, but he deserved it over many players from the past.

 

Though I wanted either Iyer or Pant to make it to the line up, but Karthik has heavily scored in INdian domestic and deserved his chance.

 

He did not deserve the chance ahead of Manish Pandye though, but since he is injured, I am fine with Karthik now. If he fails, he fails. If he does well, it's good for Indian Cricket because he does bring lot of experience to the team.

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8 hours ago, Manny_Pacquiao said:

Rahane has a good ODI record in England. got a match-winning hundred when india won the ODI series there in 2014.

 

the team looks fine, i don't know why people are whining. on paper, its the best team in the tournament. first two games against pak and SL are guaranteed wins, and a guaranteed semi final place.

That was against a poor eng odi side who was changed within few mnths.....

Neither he is going to play against eng only in CT

9 hours ago, kubrickian said:

Bhuvi was not great at the death when he started out but he has improved a lot since getting accurate with yorkers. He always had good control and knows how to bowl to his field. He is definitely a good ODI bowler.

 

If Kedhar is not tested overseas, then we can also say Pandya is not tested overseas as a batsman. Not sure we can guarantee he will add depth to batting. But you can make a case for him as an all rounder if he plays in place of Ashwin.

Pandya made his Debut in Australia only

U can make a case?????? there is always a place for all rounder in the team. he will only be dropped incase he performs horribly .

9 hours ago, kubrickian said:

That would mean Bhuvi and Bumrah can only bowl 5 overs each for the first 40 overs of the game. Besides, if one of them has an off day you need another option. 

That will always be a case with 5 bowlers and any team

Bhuvi has gone for 100+ runs so can happen to anyone

If umesh plays more chances it ll happen  

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8 hours ago, Manny_Pacquiao said:

Rahane has a good ODI record in England. got a match-winning hundred when india won the ODI series there in 2014.

 

the team looks fine, i don't know why people are whining. on paper, its the best team in the tournament. first two games against pak and SL are guaranteed wins, and a guaranteed semi final place.

 

look at the averages they have:

 

Rohit, 41

Dhawan, 40

Kohli, 52

Yuvraj, 37

Dhoni, 50

Kedar, 58

Pandya, 53, bowl 33

Jadeja, 32, 35

Ashwin, 32

Shami, 25

Bumrah, 22

 

The bowling is very good.   Not an issue.  Infact, Bhuvi or Umesh will most probably replace Ashwin in England and the pace attack is one of the best we have ever had in ODIs.

 

The batting has issues.  Career averages are not reflective of current ability. form and playing style.

 

Both Dhoni and Yuvraj are past their best and although they will come up with some stellar knocks once in a while, I don't expect them to be consistent.  That is one of the issues.

 

The other one is slow starts. Both Rohit and Dhawan are slow starters and that is not the ideal approach nowadays. It is practical to have atleast one opener who can make use of PPs.

 

Having one good young batsmen in place of either Yuvraj or Dhoni  and using an opener who is a fast starter ......will plug almost every loophole of this side.

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13 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Having one good young batsmen in place of either Yuvraj or Dhoni  and using an opener who is a fast starter ......will plug almost every loophole of this side.

why on earth would the selectors drop yuvraj or dhoni when they scored hundreds in the last series?

 

rohit and dhawan aren't slow starters, that is unless you consider going at around 80-85 slow. and when they get set, they bat through til the 40th over and score big hundreds to set up the game.

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53 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

That was against a poor eng odi side who was changed within few mnths.....

Neither he is going to play against eng only in CT

i'm just saying that the selectors had a good reason to pick him.

 

and that bowling attack was hardly any worse than the current england attack. in 2014 they had anderson, finn, woakes, ali.

now they have wood, woakes, willey, ball, rashid, plunkett.

 

 

 

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50 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Both Dhoni and Yuvraj are past their best and although they will come up with some stellar knocks once in a while, I don't expect them to be consistent.  That is one of the issues.

True, one of them has to go

Although i feel dhoni is just going through a bad phase which had to hppen sometime with him. He still isnt that bad in his bad phase as other become. He is still gr8 behind the stumps and contributes massively to kohlis captaincy. With dhoni i have hope things will get better as phase changes. for me he still shud be a part of 2019 WC as he brings a lot on table 

 

Coming to yuvi, he has come out of his bad phase and his current good phase is still not that encouraging . Currently he doesnt add much with his fielding and bowling to . He has chance this CT to earn his place but for that he has to score heavy 

 

This team ideally needs 3 changes for 2019 

An opener who can give a fast start allowing rohit to play his game. Someone like Pant or kishen 

No 4......KL or someone solid who can also whack when needed. Not only shud he be able to handle a early collapse but shud be able to explode when needed. 

A no 6, jadhav has done really well but his fitness worries me for 2019. Someone like Shankar n krunal shud be looked for this role as they can also give us extra overs. Deepak hooda can also be a candidate 

 

For me dhoni stays as we need another experienced person then kohli in middle 

42 minutes ago, Manny_Pacquiao said:

rohit and dhawan aren't slow starters, that is unless you consider going at around 80-85 slow. and when they get set, they bat through til the 40th over and score big hundreds to set up the game.

Yes they are slow starters we have given the stats so many times in comparison to other teams opener

they just cover up well, but they dnt start that quick and most of times this has backfires as they have lost wkt in between .

 

So sooner or later a change in this opening partnership is must. 

37 minutes ago, Manny_Pacquiao said:

i'm just saying that the selectors had a good reason to pick him.

 

and that bowling attack was hardly any worse than the current england attack. in 2014 they had anderson, finn, woakes, ali.

now they have wood, woakes, willey, ball, rashid, plunkett.

His disastor ODI record is also a good reson why he shud not be picked

His last 6 odi games is another reason

HE is not going to play only eng in CT, who knws eng might be even knocked out 

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47 minutes ago, Manny_Pacquiao said:

why on earth would the selectors drop yuvraj or dhoni when they scored hundreds in the last series?

 

rohit and dhawan aren't slow starters, that is unless you consider going at around 80-85 slow. and when they get set, they bat through til the 40th over and score big hundreds to set up the game.

I think it will again depend on Kohli or Rohit to do the bulk of scoring and post or chase big totals and others to do supporting roles.

 

If Yuvi or MS are at their best, they'll do the job but they have been largely inconsistent in the recent past and shown they are past it. Guess we'll see what they can do in CT. I reckon its time for couple of replacements, maybe also have another opener who can make use of PP instead of Dhawan who is a slow starter. England, Aus or SA play lot more aggressively in PP and middle overs and therefore have an edge.

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They just wanted a backup wicket keeper who can bat a bit and has experience in playing in England...

He won't even get chance till Dhoni is fit to play.

The team will go to WI after that it seems... Dhoni might avoid to travel to WI. Hence this backup...

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They just wanted a backup wicket keeper who can bat a bit and has experience in playing in England...

He won't even get chance till Dhoni is fit to play.

The team will go to WI after that it seems... Dhoni might avoid to travel to WI. Hence this backup...

 

So where was this back up wicket keeper when the initial WK was picked ?

 

We didn't even pick back up wicket keepers for month long 2015 WC and suddenly Karthick is being picked as back up WK for a short tournament like CT?

 

D Karthick has solely forced his way into the team based on his batting form not as WK Batsman

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So where was this back up wicket keeper when the initial WK was picked ?

 

We didn't even pick back up wicket keepers for month long 2015 WC and suddenly Karthick is being picked as back up WK for a short tournament like CT?

 

D Karthick has solely forced his way into the team based on his batting form not as WK Batsman

It because of the trust deficit between Kohli and Dhoni... Kohli wanted this back up as you never know what Dhoni will do..,

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On Friday, May 19, 2017 at 0:55 PM, Manny_Pacquiao said:

why on earth would the selectors drop yuvraj or dhoni when they scored hundreds in the last series?

I am talking about consistency, which neither Yuvi nor Dhoni has nowadays.

 

They will obviously be in the squad of 17 but a younger guy is needed to be kept as backup.

 

Quote

rohit and dhawan aren't slow starters, that is unless you consider going at around 80-85 slow. and when they get set, they bat through til the 40th over and score big hundreds to set up the game.

SR of 80 to 85 is not good in the first 10 overs nowadays, especially if both batters are batting like that.

Edited by express bowling

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1 hour ago, express bowling said:

I am talking about consistency, which neither Yuvi nor Dhoni nowadays.

 

Tuy will obviously be in the squad of 17 but a younger guy needed to kept as backup.

 

SR of 80 to 85 is not good in the first 10 overs nowadays, especially if both batters are batting like that.,

55-65 runs in first ten overs are pretty good. The rate at which you're saying they play the score will be around 51, And surely they could notch up 5-10 runs more if one of the opener gets going fluently.

 

Rohit is a bit slow starter but he could really take it away once well set, You may say that he is not consistent enough but when he scores big those are impactful runs. 

 

Also a bulk of scoring is made in last 15-20 overs, You can't blame top order only. 

England made 444 runs VS Pakistan at Nottingham last year, They lost Jason Roy early who scored 15 off 19 balls, Joe Root scored at SR of below 100 But Hales carried on and scored 171 off 122.

But their middle order turned the game away with high class power hitting, Morgan scored @211 while Buttler massacred anything he got making 90 off just 51. 

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Yuvraj, Dhoni and Rohit WILL  fail They will be the cause of India's premature exit and the shameless selectors will have their job. I do not understand the stupidity, immaturity and lack of understanding of people who want a young team. You dont want a young team. You dont want a experienced team, You want the best team.

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Pandey would not have been in the starting XI.. Neither will DK or Rahane.

 

The starting XI will be:

Dhawan, Rohit, Kohli, Yuvi, MSD, Jadhav, Pandya, Jadeja, Ash, Bhuvi, Bumrah

 

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I wanted to see N. Rana in the squad, he seems to fit really well at #4 right after Kohli. Karthik is a good chocie as well, but I would've preferred a youthful player like Rana to build for the WC. I'm also disappointed Chahal isn't in the team, I feel we need a leggie. 

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The Kanitkar hand in Dinesh Karthik’s metamorphosis

 

© Wisden India

“In the limited-overs tournaments especially, he was very helpful for Vijay Shankar. Dinesh’s performance should be viewed in a very all-round way, and not just the runs,” says Kanitkar. © Wisden India

It was a first-round fixture of the Ranji Trophy 2016-17 season, the Tamil Nadu v Mumbai match in Lahli, and it was precariously poised.

Tamil Nadu had conceded a sizeable first-innings lead on a tough pitch, but their openers had fought back well to wipe out the deficit in the second innings with a century stand. Soon, the baton was passed to the most experienced player in the Tamil Nadu squad – Dinesh Karthik. They had collapsed to 87 all out in the first innings, and it was up to him to prevent an encore.

To borrow from a now-popular meme template, experts would have expected him to bat through, playing ‘authentic’ shots. Karthik, though, had other ideas; he unleashed a cheeky paddle-scoop, only to see the ball land in short fine-leg’s hands. It sparked a massive Tamil Nadu collapse that led to Mumbai prevailing in the low-scoring game, and Karthik’s ‘ill-advised’ shot was singled out by local media.

“Hrishikesh the coach and Hrishikesh the player are two very detached people. I don’t think they mix and mingle much. I’ve seen that trait a lot in Rahul Dravid and even Matthew Hayden, from whatever interactions I’ve had with him. They don’t talk about their cricketing days a lot, which I admire. Because if you still keep talking about your days, it’s very hard to understand current-day players’ mindset. I really like that about Hrishi. He is very calm and quiet.” – Karthik

Something happened in the four-day gap before the next game that triggered a major turnaround.

Barely days later, Tamil Nadu were in an eerily similar situation against Railways in Bilaspur, with Karthik under the spotlight again. This time, he smashed 163 off 145 balls, setting up a comfortable victory for his team.

Karthik didn’t look back and went on to finish the Ranji Trophy with 704 runs at an average of 54.15. He then went even better it in the limited-overs competitions, making 854 runs from 12 innings, including centuries in the Vijay Hazare and Deodhar Trophy finals that led Tamil Nadu to twin titles. It was the fourth highest tally ever in a List A season in Indian cricket.

The ‘event’ that led to the remarkable upswing in Karthik’s fortunes was a brief conversation with Hrishikesh Kanitkar, Tamil Nadu’s coach.

A dressing down for a rash, game-changing shot wouldn’t have been misplaced, but Kanitkar dealt with it differently.

“It was probably the first time he saw me (play). A lot of people might not have expected it and in fact there were a lot of harsh things written,” Karthik tells Wisden India. “But all he told me was ‘instead of playing the paddle sweep, I think you should have hit over the top’. It was pretty refreshing. He didn’t give me an option saying the situation wasn’t good, you should have probably defended. He knew defending was not a great option on that wicket for long periods of time and that it was important to take the attack to the opposition. He told me I could have gone over the top or played a shot different to this.

“If a coach yells and says this is not the way a senior player should play, these are the shots you should play or you should play more authentic cricket, I would have been under pressure the next time I wanted to execute that shot. But now I knew that he would back me even if I played that shot and got it wrong, because you can get out cover-driving a ball or even defending. It’s not how you get out, it’s the amount of runs you score before you get out that matters. I’m a believer of that.

© Wisden India

“He comes across as a very good human being who is very content with whatever he has achieved. I think that’s a very important aspect of a sportsperson,” says Karthik about Kanitkar. © Wisden India

“Credit to him for giving me a lot of space. He has never shown any sort of reaction that is negative in any way. He has been very calm throughout. I failed in the first three innings in the Ranji Trophy. He never asked a word, he didn’t speak to me and allowed me to be. A lot of times, players go through their own pressures and it’s important for a coach to be non-interfering at times. He did that.”

Remind Kanitkar of that conversation, and you can see that there’s mutual respect between the coach and player.

“For experienced cricketers, I like to give them a lot of space because they have been successful for a reason and I respect that,” says Kanitkar. “What I would have done in that situation would be completely different to what Dinesh would do. That was an instinctive shot he played. Basically, I told him that his choice to hit that ball for a four or six was fine with me because that’s how his instincts work. So that’s okay, that’s no problem. But I felt the choice of where to hit that ball could have been better.

“Having played at the first-class level for 19 years, I’ve also made those mistakes at some point. What usually happens is people forget that they’ve also made mistakes when they were playing, and after they retire they suddenly become great players. I don’t want to be like that. I’ve accepted what all bad shots I’ve played in my career and I shouldn’t forget that, and there was no intention to go after any player, not only Dinesh.” – Kanitkar

“You have to remember that the player wants to do his best. There’s no point curbing natural talent. The moment you say something that’s offensive or puts fear in a player, it means you’re taking away his own ability to think, plan and execute. If the coach himself is taking away confidence from the player, what’s left for the opposition to do? Nothing.

“Having played at the first-class level for 19 years, I’ve also made those mistakes at some point. What usually happens is people forget that they’ve also made mistakes when they were playing, and after they retire they suddenly become great players. I don’t want to be like that. I’ve accepted what all bad shots I’ve played in my career and I shouldn’t forget that, and there was no intention to go after any player, not only Dinesh.”

It’s these qualities of Kanitkar that Karthik not only admires, but also aspires to imbibe, especially beyond the cricket field.

“A very key word I associate with him is –he’s a very satisfied human being,” explains Karthik. “I don’t think he has any regret on his career or frustrated about things that probably could have happened. He comes across as a very good human being who is very content with whatever he has achieved. I think that’s a very important aspect of a sportsperson.

“Sometimes you can still constantly live in those years when you were playing, even after finishing. He has moved on in a very graceful manner. I genuinely feel I’ll be a person who’ll be like that when I finish my career, because I feel playing and coaching are different things. I think he has identified that to a large extent.

“Hrishikesh the coach and Hrishikesh the player are two very detached people. I don’t think they mix and mingle much. I’ve seen that trait a lot in Rahul Dravid and even Matthew Hayden, from whatever interactions I’ve had with him. They don’t talk about their cricketing days a lot, which I admire. Because if you still keep talking about your days, it’s very hard to understand current-day players’ mindset. I really like that about Hrishi. He is very calm and quiet.”

Also read: Do away with toss, return to home and away format, says Karthik

‘Calm’ and ‘quiet’ are two words that are hard to associate with Karthik. He is restless in whatever he does and he is happy to be the way he is.

“Being restless is something that’s very me,” he says. “I have all my set of restless rituals before the bowler starts his run up but once he does, I think I’m in decent space. All those nervy things that look very restless from outside is very Dinesh Karthik. I don’t think I can change it, and I don’t want to change it as well.”

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Dinesh Karthik has totalled 190 runs from the first seven games Gujarat Lions have played, the runs coming at an average of 38 and a strike rate of 136.69. © BCCI

But one word that can be used to describe Karthik, according to Kanitkar, is ‘responsible’. The coach believes that the responsibility Karthik accepted led to another aspect of batting that was generally not associated with him – consistency.

“He took responsibility for everything he did and the team benefited as well,” points out Kanitkar. “He was looking at a bigger cause than himself. He was looking at how the team can reach the knockouts and such things rather than I should get a 100 or a 50. His cause was much higher than personal gains and that really, really brought the best out of him.

“In the limited-overs tournaments especially, he was very helpful for Vijay Shankar (the captain). Dinesh’s performance should be viewed in a very all-round way, and not just the runs.”

According to Karthik, the consistency is a result of working with multiple people, including Abhishek Nayar, over the last few years.

More importantly, he says it’s a consequence of calmness in the mind, although it doesn’t necessarily show on the exterior.

“Being restless is something that’s very me. I have all my set of restless rituals before the bowler starts his run up but once he does, I think I’m in decent space. All those nervy things that look very restless from outside is very Dinesh Karthik. I don’t think I can change it, and I don’t want to change it as well.” – Karthik

“I went to Prasanna Aghoram (video analyst) in 2013 to improve on my technique, I went to (Pravin) Amre sir a year ago to work on my back lift,” he says. “These are small things I’ve changed in my batting and the fruits of all those hard works are showing now. They all played their roles in my life and helped me become the batsman I am today.

“What I’ve realised is that for the next level, what’s most important is the mental make-up. How you approach your innings, how you plan it. I had this conversation with Virat (Kohli) the last time I was in the Indian team in the Asia Cup (2014).

“He opened up on a few things that I hadn’t been doing, which he does personally. That was great insight, actually. I remember I had a heartfelt conversation with him. He gave me a few tips on what he was doing in terms of preparation and all that. At that stage, I found it hard to relate to that. But over a period of time, having Abhishek Nayar by my side, I was able to put things more in context and those things have been of tremendous help of late.”

In every way, the season that went by – or is going on, if you include the Indian Premier League – has been a successful one for Karthik. At 31, it remains to be seen if it will lead to a second wind in his international career.

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On 5/19/2017 at 3:54 AM, BeautifulGame said:

 

So where was this back up wicket keeper when the initial WK was picked ?

 

We didn't even pick back up wicket keepers for month long 2015 WC and suddenly Karthick is being picked as back up WK for a short tournament like CT?

 

D Karthick has solely forced his way into the team based on his batting form not as WK Batsman

That is true but do you think his wicket keeping is that inferior to Dhoni's?

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10 hours ago, Khota said:

That is true but do you think his wicket keeping is that inferior to Dhoni's?

Yes. DK's problem is not the ability. But he makes a lot of simple errors. Often misses simple balls and takes blinders. You know what to expect from Dhoni. But you never know what you will get from DK. 

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