Rightarmfast Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Agree with the OP. Imran's stats are inflated. What nobody has mentioned here are the dubious umpiring decisions for Pakistani players. I mean check the 7 wicket haul of Aqib Javed, I think about 4 wickets were not outs. If Imran were to play today, his stats would go awry hugely. But if Kapil were to play with the current Indian team, his stats would be hugely improved because he will have bowling partners like Umesh, Shami and batsmen like Kohli and all supporting him! Link to comment
Tattieboy Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said: Did you consider that Richards didnt have to play against the most dangerous bowlers of his time, which were west Indians, but Kapil had to play against them? The rest of the test nation bowlers were medium pace trundlers? Are you seriously advocating Kapil Dev was a more destructive batsman than Viv Richards? Link to comment
Texan Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 On 5/20/2017 at 2:57 PM, Jimmy Cliff said: Sobers, Kallis, Imran, Miller, Botham. Honorable mention to Aubrey Faulkner, Mike Procter, Kapil, Hadlee, Greig, Flintoff, Cairns, Pollock, Goddard, Barlow, Mushtaq Mohammad, Richie Benaud and Alan Davidson who might just be the most under-rated cricketer of all time. Would agree with this. For OP, I think most people agree that Kapil's batting >> Imran's batting. Kapil was naturally talented batsman and more aggressive, while Imran was a plodder. Difference in their batting was like the difference between Lara and Steve Waugh's batting. However, Imran was a much better bowler. Yes, he must have done a lot of tampering, but can't really gauge how much impact that really had on his bowling figures. Still, I think he was a better bowler than Kapil. Link to comment
rtmohanlal Posted May 21, 2017 Author Share Posted May 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Texan said: Would agree with this. For OP, I think most people agree that Kapil's batting >> Imran's batting. Kapil was naturally talented batsman and more aggressive, while Imran was a plodder. Difference in their batting was like the difference between Lara and Steve Waugh's batting. However, Imran was a much better bowler. Yes, he must have done a lot of tampering, but can't really gauge how much impact that really had on his bowling figures. Still, I think he was a better bowler than Kapil. To know as to how much effect has tampering had on Imran's bowling stats you need to go thru his series wise bowling averages. A 29-30 avg:ing bowler in the 70s all of a sudden started avg:ing in 11-15 & 15-20 range from 81 onwards. So odd & strange to find such a career track. And it just coincides with his admission of tampering in a county match in 81. Rightarmfast 1 Link to comment
putrevus Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 @rtmohanlal while I agree Kapil was better batsman than Imran. Kapil was nowhere near the league of Viv so don't even go there. We have to give it to Imran for totally changing his action and becoming a genuine pace bowler from medium pacer. Kapil after 1984 knee surgery became a pale version of himself and as he started playing more odi cricket he lost his bite in his outswinger and that contributed greatly in his increased average and SR. Kapil has better home record than away record and his record in England is horrible for a swing bowler.I am one of the biggest fan of Kaps but Imran was better bowler who could win more matches. Kapil like Botham never had a chance to grow as player because of the immense workload he had to carry starting from his first test. where as both Hadlee and Imran took time to mature and had lot of time to refine their skills. Imran or Wasim or Waqar had their stats enhanced a little by ball tampering and home umpiring but they were definitely far superior bowlers than any Indian bowler and they had butter fingered fielder who gave them minimal support. As far allrounders I would take Botham after Sobers on pure talent and at their peak. There was nothing that these two gentlemen could not do on cricket field. Link to comment
Ultimate_Game Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 Regarding Imran vs Kapil, I would go with Imran in Tests and Kapil in shorter formats. Link to comment
wanted_desi Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 I have started watching cricket since 96, so according me: 1) Kallis 2) Flintoff Link to comment
kira Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 Ball tamperers, fixers and chuckers should automatically be disqualified from these lists, phateechar khan wouldn't even make the top 10 and here you put him in at no. 5 Kallis, Sobers, Kapil, Botham, Hadlee, Flintoff are the top all rounders in test cricket Link to comment
rtmohanlal Posted May 23, 2017 Author Share Posted May 23, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, kira said: Ball tamperers, fixers and chuckers should automatically be disqualified from these lists, phateechar khan wouldn't even make the top 10 and here you put him in at no. 5 Kallis, Sobers, Kapil, Botham, Hadlee, Flintoff are the top all rounders in test cricket It is heartening to see some one apart from me clearly penalising Imran by completely avoiding from your list.I put him at 5 just on an assumption that his tampering methods would have inflated his avg: not by huge margins .But it seems that you are assuming that such unfair tactics had huge effects in both formats. Not blaming you either because that case also can't be entirely neglected. Several posters here though fully agree with 'Imran tampered' are a bit hesitant to move away from that strong traditional belief, it seems. Testimonies of himself, several contemporary cricket personalities,several opposition players & even several of his own country players strongly indicates to him resorting to these unfair tactics whose effects on his stats can't be neglected as 'very little' either. No short ways.... i am for thoroughly penalising for such illegal tactics . Edited May 23, 2017 by rtmohanlal small updation Link to comment
Rightarmfast Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 12 hours ago, putrevus said: @rtmohanlal while I agree Kapil was better batsman than Imran. Kapil was nowhere near the league of Viv so don't even go there. We have to give it to Imran for totally changing his action and becoming a genuine pace bowler from medium pacer. Kapil after 1984 knee surgery became a pale version of himself and as he started playing more odi cricket he lost his bite in his outswinger and that contributed greatly in his increased average and SR. Kapil has better home record than away record and his record in England is horrible for a swing bowler.I am one of the biggest fan of Kaps but Imran was better bowler who could win more matches. Kapil like Botham never had a chance to grow as player because of the immense workload he had to carry starting from his first test. where as both Hadlee and Imran took time to mature and had lot of time to refine their skills. Imran or Wasim or Waqar had their stats enhanced a little by ball tampering and home umpiring but they were definitely far superior bowlers than any Indian bowler and they had butter fingered fielder who gave them minimal support. As far allrounders I would take Botham after Sobers on pure talent and at their peak. There was nothing that these two gentlemen could not do on cricket field. Dont think the illegal methods used by Imran inflated his stats just by a little. I totally believe that in all home matches, the bias in the umpiring too has inflated their nos. Having said that, no doubt Imran was a better bowler than Kapil. But I honestly dont think he was such a threat as a bowler. Link to comment
rtmohanlal Posted May 23, 2017 Author Share Posted May 23, 2017 Some people still believe that tampering had only minor positive effects in Imran's end career stats & that he would have still become nearly as effective with his 'fastness' alone.Such people should go thru the history of cricket .There are several names who were/are as fast,faster & almost as fast as Imran who ended up at the most as 'very good' category bowlers only. The likes of Jeoff Thomson, Craig Mcdermott,Brett Lee,Merv Hughes,Mike Whittney,Mitchell Jhonson,Jason Gillespie,Chetan Sharma,Javagal Sreenath,Atul Wassan,Sreesanth, Umesh Yadav,Ravindra Pushpakumara, Champaka Ramanayake,Dilhara Fernando,Mohammed Sami,Shoaib Akhtar,Mohammed Zahid,Patrick Patterson, Winston Benjamin, Kemar Roach,Franklyn Rose,Mervyn Dhillon,Fanie Devilliers,Nanty Hayward,Ntini Devon Malcolm,Paul Jarvis, Neal Fraser etc etc were/are as fast or faster than or almost as fast as Imran who ended up at the most as 'very good' category bowlers only. Simlarly we can trace out a lot more names.These bowlers are testimony to the fact that out & out pace does not guarantee 'greatness'. When we take the case of such bowlers & relate that to Imran's 'unfair tactics' & read them as a whole can we realise the extends that ball tampering can make in differences. Link to comment
cric_fan Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Indian's crying everyday re Imran Khan Simply put, Kapil is not fit to tie Imran's shoes. Link to comment
cric_fan Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Dont think the illegal methods used by Imran inflated his stats just by a little. I totally believe that in all home matches, the bias in the umpiring too has inflated their nos. Having said that, no doubt Imran was a better bowler than Kapil. But I honestly dont think he was such a threat as a bowler. Keep crying fast bowling 'expert'. Love it Link to comment
Rightarmfast Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, cric_fan said: Keep crying fast bowling 'expert'. Love it mirchi lag gayi? :P Link to comment
cric_fan Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 mirchi lag gayi? :P Nope. I love seeing a guy like you crying about Imran everyday You are the one with a mirch up your rear end. Bitter & jealous. You seem to be obsessed. When is your book on fast bowling being published? mr fast bowling 'expert'. Lol Link to comment
Nikhil_cric Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 For me 1. Imran 2. Sobers 3.Kallis 4. Hadlee 5.Kapil Link to comment
Rightarmfast Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 9 minutes ago, cric_fan said: Nope. I love seeing a guy like you crying about Imran everyday You are the one with a mirch up your rear end. Bitter & jealous. You seem to be obsessed. When is your book on fast bowling being published? mr fast bowling 'expert'. Lol Right after imran's on ball tampering and cheating :) Link to comment
kira Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 33 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said: For me 1. Imran 2. Sobers 3.Kallis 4. Hadlee 5.Kapil Side effect of spending too much time on the green ghetto, you have let down the rashtra a lot, first you rate that phateechar uae khan above dravid and now this #pathetic Rightarmfast 1 Link to comment
Kerberos Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 39 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said: For me 1. Imran 2. Sobers 3.Kallis 4. Hadlee 5.Kapil Imran ahead of sobers. Link to comment
cric_fan Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Side effect of spending too much time on the green ghetto, you have let down the rashtra a lot, first you rate that phateechar uae khan above dravid and now this #pathetic It his opinion. Why are you crying? Link to comment
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