TOP 5 all rounders of all time

[rtmohanlal]

Data that points to the support bowling strength of FAB 4 of  the 80s

                 runs     wkts  avg:     runs  wkts avg:   runs  wkts  avg:

Imran         39354  1297 30.34   8258 362 22.81  31096  935  33.26
Botham       44647  1454 30.70 10878 383 28.40  33769 1071  31.53
hadlee         38358 1207 31.77   9611 431 22.29  28747   776  37.05
kapil            61403 1730 35.49 12867 434 29.64  48536 1296  37.45

First 3 columns of 'runs  wkts  avg: ' reveals the total runs conceded,total wkts taken & combined avg: of all the bowlers including the 'bowler' in the tests the bowler was playing.

Second set of  'runs     wkts  avg:'    reveals the total runs conceded,total wkts taken & avg: of the  individual player only.

Third set of  'runs     wkts  avg:'  reveals the total runs conceded,total wkts taken & combined  avg: of all bowlers excluding the bowler.

This is obtained by  reducing the respective no:s  of 2nd set from first set.We can call this as 'support bowling unit strength'.

 

From the data it is crystal clear that Kapil's 'support bowling unit strength' was convincingly weak from that of Botham & Imran.

When we consider that Kapil bowled 27740 balls to Hadlee's  21918 in his career(26.56% more), 'support bowling unit strength' of Kapil was not marginally weaker only  to that of Hadlee's either. Botham got the best  'support bowling unit strength' . Yet he avg:ed only 28.4.When we think that Kapil could avg: 29.1 at the stage where he bowled almost the same no: of balls  as that of Botham  & the fact that Botham was stooping at alarming levels, it is crystal clear that Botham was the worst bowler of the 4.Hadlee was the unquestionable best  bowler of the 4.

All these based on the above data only( in other words tampering factor is not taken into account here).   

Edited May 25, 2017 by rtmohanlal
alighment problem

[rtmohanlal]

3 hours ago, putrevus said:

Immense load did hurt Kapil but he was a greater threat in India than England.The away from home weakness which haunts us still was at there then too. Kapil is still my favorite cricketer , he is one guy who changed the whole cricketing world not just Indian cricket.1983 World cup effect on cricketing world is so huge.

 

I changed my opinion on Imran after watching Kapil himself talk so highly about Imran. Imran also did not have any fast bowlers to guide him. The way Imran is perceived by his peers all over the world cannot be wrong either.As bowler Imran was far superior to Kaps even Kaps agreed to it.

 

W.R.T. Botham you are under estimating how good he was at his peak, he and Kapil played many matches together. Look at his performance in golden jubilee test that was a legendary performance.At his best there was nothing he could do, he was an excellent slip fielder too.For me it is not just all about stats.Imran has better average than Botham but Botham was way superior batsman than Imran.

 

 

Almost all  'great to very good' bowlers will have some countries where they would be brilliant on  their own.For instance for Kapil those 2 countries were AUS & WI. For Imran those 2 were  ENG & WI. And in other some other  countries  they will be weaker than normal too.

It was the case with Kapil w.r.t ENG. Imran too was weaker on his own in AUS.But the difference  was that the   'support bowling unit strength' got from the bowlers like Sarfraz, Wasim etc etc were so better in AUS for Imran   from what Kapil could get from his bowlers in  ENG that Imran could benefit from that factor to affect his stats in AUS .More over Kapil's heavy workload has its effects too.

 

Kapil himself talks so highly about Imran.So does Gavaskar who has always been a good friend of Imran.

The way Imran is perceived by his peers all over the world cannot be wrong either' - Going by this statement, peers like Botham,Lamb,R.Smith,J.Reid, Sandhu,Mohinder,Maninder,Shastri,Aamer Sohail,Shahbaz Shereef,Rameez Raja, Sarfraz Nawaz too perceives

Imran with regard to 'fair play'. This too can't be wrong either.

 

As bowler Imran was far superior to Kaps even Kaps agreed to it. - I just simply can't agree with this statement even with out  taking 'tampering' factor into account.I have given my reason in details earlier. Imran was may be 2 levels above Kapil( tampering factor neglected)  but 'far superior' is stretching it too much.

 

A peak that existed 4 years & 4 months  where he got brilliant bowling support & played against Packer cricket weakend countries.Even here too he was exactly the opposite vs Windies. After that a 10+ years of utter mediocrity(trough).You must not forget that  his performances   in his peak was hugely influenced by  above factors. You are talking about jubilee test. Agreed .But must not forget that it is not all about numbers.

For instance Kapil's 41 & 89 along with '8 wkts out of 13 to fall' in the LORDS test was a brilliant all round performance.Ofcourse in numbers  both these performances differ considerably. But you have to take other factors like opposition bowling strength,support given by fellow bowlers etc etc too.To be more clear take another of Kapil's all round performance vs Pakistan at Karachi in 89.He took 7 wkts out of 15 PAK wkts to fall &  scored

55 runs of only 50 balls in the sole inns he played in that test.Runs may be only 55 but those were scored when IND was in serious trouble vs Wasim,Waqar,Imran & Qadir.55 runs vs such a quality bowling is worth more than a 100 vs a mediocre bowling unit. Hope you got my point. 

  Even after taking into account   all these factors numerically influencing 'all round performances' positively or negatively, i still feel Botham could put it together slightly better than Kapil .But apart from that factor, Kapil was better test batsman, better test bowler, better

one day batsman, better one day bowler, better captain &  better  all round fielder. So all these combined together, makes him eclipse Botham's slightly better  'all round performances' 

for me. 

Edited May 25, 2017 by rtmohanlal

[rtmohanlal]

Another anecdote of Imran's ball tampering from an article.

When Imran took six for six from 23 deliveries, including a hat-trick, for Sussex against Warwickshire in 1983, umpire Don Oslear voiced his suspicions. Although Alvin Kallicharran, who saw the destruction from the non-striker’s end, deemed it the best bowling he had ever seen, others were not that effusive. England seamer Chris Old told the Daily Mirror, “I saw the ball [Imran] had tampered with, and it looked like a dog had chewed it.”
According to Oslear, “This was the first time I had seen one side of the ball scratched and torn with pieces of leather ripped out. The quarter seam had been opened up at a point where it meets the stitched seam and it appeared that some of the stitches had been cut. This allowed a triangle of leather to be pulled up from the surface of the ball, it was a piece large enough to be gripped between forefinger and thumb, and by which the ball could be suspended.

[King Tendulkar]

Genuine all rounders are what I look at . Guys who would get in team as pure bowler or batsman 

 

sobers(love the guy ) is over rated bowler.  Jack of all trades master of none ? Would not get in a lot of good teams as bower alone 

 

Kallis the bowler was better then sobers imo if one dimensional and boring . Maybe make teams as 4th bowler 

 

Imran khan was awful bat . Watch him bat was painful . No team would pick him as pure bat , not even close 

 

Hadlee mediocre bat . Again broad type 

 

kapil Dev and Botham . Both could get in teams as pure Bowlers and batsman 

 

and mankad of course 

Edited May 25, 2017 by King Tendulkar

[Rightarmfast]

I think Chris Cairns and Heath Streak are heavily under rated. And due to the same reason as Kapil Dev. Both Chris and Heath played for a very mediocre side. They were both the spearhead of their bowling attack and also the workhorse. Both were good batsmen, without being exceptional, however more often than not they would have batting collapses and too much of burden on them.

 

If these 2 were playing for different team, they would be legends. In the same way, had Kapil played for a stronger team, lets say Australia, he would have been an even bigger legend and without doubt would be considered way better than Imran.

[Muloghonto]

1.  I hold Imran's ball tampering against him, not the 'not outs'. Why should a batsman be penalized for limited opportunity to score runs because he got stranded ? Sure, not outs *CAN* inflate an average well beyond what a batsman is worth, but unless we have a batsman averaging 40+ without scoring a single century or their scoring rate of 50 is well below 20% of the innings, then it is simply an opportunity denied for batsmen to score runs. 

 

2. Botham, for a period, was a 'true allrounder'. Granted, it was a short period but till the end of 1982, he averaged 37 with the bat and 24 with the ball. Also scored more centuries than any other allrounder of his time.Having said that, he did take quite a beating against West indies, the best side of his time. So it brings his score down a bit for me.

 

3. Kapil's stats are deflated, because Kapil was an under-performer against average sides, but did excellently against the strong sides.

4. My biggest issue with ranking Imran highly, is that except for 82-83, the height of his cheating days, he never put together an allrounder season. He either had a great season with the bat or a great season with the ball. So while he is a 'career allrounder', situationally, Imran was an 'either/or' more so than Kapil & Botham.

 

My all-time allrounder top-5 list :

 

1. Sobers

2. Keith Miller

3. Kallis

4. Kapil

5. Botham

 

[Muloghonto]

The thing about Imran to consider, is that :

 

a) he cheated with ball tampering to get an unnaturally low average between 1982-1986. This period, Imran took 138 wickets from 24 tests at average of 14.31

 

Even in this period, his stats are revealing : he played 16 tests in Pakistan, taking 102 wickets @ 12.89, played 3 tests in SL (which in the 80s was the equivalent of playing Bangladesh or Zimbabwe of the current avatar), took 15 wickets @ 18.00, played 2 tests in Australia but did not bowl a single ball and played 3 tests in England, taking 21 wickets @ 18.57

 

b) After this period, i.e., from 1987-1990, Imran protected his bowling figures a lot, with the emergence of Wasim and Waqar. 

Imran would typically bowl 5-6 overs with the new ball, then 5-6 over with the old ball around 70-75 overs mark and end up with stuff like 

5-2-15-1 kind of figures on each spell. Ie, he for the large part, avoided bowling in his last 4 years unless the ball was absolutely new or really old.

 

[Trichromatic]

5 hours ago, King Tendulkar said:

Genuine all rounders are what I look at . Guys who would get in team as pure bowler or batsman 

 

sobers(love the guy ) is over rated bowler.  Jack of all trades master of none ? Would not get in a lot of good teams as bower alone 

 

Kallis the bowler was better then sobers imo if one dimensional and boring . Maybe make teams as 4th bowler 

 

Imran khan was awful bat . Watch him bat was painful . No team would pick him as pure bat , not even close 

 

Hadlee mediocre bat . Again broad type 

 

kapil Dev and Botham . Both could get in teams as pure Bowlers and batsman 

 

and mankad of course 

No team would pick Kapil as pure bat. Maybe Bangladesh, Zim and SL, but none of top 6 teams. He won't be automatic pick as bowler in many countries either.

[Muloghonto]

6 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

No team would pick Kapil as pure bat. Maybe Bangladesh, Zim and SL, but none of top 6 teams. He won't be automatic pick as bowler in many countries either.

Yes. But no team would pick any of Imran, Kapil or Botham as a top 6 bat, if they can help it.  Nobody wants a less than 40 average batsman in the top six anyways and all of them are long ways away from 40 average. 

 

The difference between Kapil and Imran as batsmen are pretty simple: Kapil was by far harder to contain than Imran- against top level bowling. He had far more shots, much better execution of shots than Imran. Imran was far harder to dismiss- he had a much better defence. Typically, that makes for a better batsman in Tests (defence > offence) but ONLY if you are good enough to be a top six batsman. 

Which neither one of them are. 

In the bottom 4/5 spots, you IDEALLY want a guy who can hang around and score some quick runs. Because nobody else is going to stick around for long enough- you are realistically gonna get 25-40 balls per innings before the last 3-4 wickets fall and its much better to have a guy who can score 20 off of 25 balls and get out, than a guy who scores 7 not out from those 25 balls. 

 

So realistically speaking, Kapil's batting is more in fit with a team. Granted, he was an inferior bowler and that is why Imran sneaks in ahead of Kapil in most XIs. But strictly on batting, most sensible people would rather have Kapil over Imran as a batsman. 25-low 30s average lower order bats are far better value if they are quick scorers than a slow tuk-tuk with a better average. 

 

Edited May 26, 2017 by Muloghonto

[rtmohanlal]

4 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

No team would pick Kapil as pure bat. Maybe Bangladesh, Zim and SL, but none of top 6 teams. He won't be automatic pick as bowler in many countries either.

A team which played names like Srikkanth ,Yashpal Sharma, Sandeep Patil,Shastri, Sanjay Manjrekar ,  all baring Shastri  playing only a hand ful of tests in the range 30-45 & avg: ing in  29-37 range  in the middle order would easily have played Kapil as a specialist batsman if required.

Kapil avg:ed 32.36 in his first 88 tests or so( much larger sample size  than any  of the above names baring Shastri) , he was deadly dangerous with str: rate of 84+, he was a lot better than even several specialist batsmen of his times in WI, he played several high quality back to the wall inns. In short he was much  better than his avg: suggests.

Bowlers like  Mcdermott, Hughes,Patterson,Vaas,Morrison,Gough,Cork,Caddick,Ntini,Botham,Gillespie  etc etc played for so long as specialist bowlers for their respective countries .They had very good support bowling strength  units too in their careers. Yet they avg:ed out side 25.

Kapil who avg:ed 28.86 in his first 21000 balls with  very feeble   support bowling strength & heavy work load could easily have played as a specialist bowler in almost all countries. Hope you are not joking here especially w.r.t bowling.  

[Rightarmfast]

We keep on talking about Imran Khan's great run during his peak years. Let's have a look at Pakistani umpiring, as late as in 1997. One can only imagine ( I have actually witnessed Pakistani umpiring, remember it vividly in sharjah matches and matches in pakitan in 80's) what kind of umpiring would have happened in 80's when Imran was taking all those wickets!

 

 

[putrevus]

20 hours ago, rtmohanlal said:

Almost all  'great to very good' bowlers will have some countries where they would be brilliant on  their own.For instance for Kapil those 2 countries were AUS & WI. For Imran those 2 were  ENG & WI. And in other some other  countries  they will be weaker than normal too.

It was the case with Kapil w.r.t ENG. Imran too was weaker on his own in AUS.But the difference  was that the   'support bowling unit strength' got from the bowlers like Sarfraz, Wasim etc etc were so better in AUS for Imran   from what Kapil could get from his bowlers in  ENG that Imran could benefit from that factor to affect his stats in AUS .More over Kapil's heavy workload has its effects too.

 

Kapil himself talks so highly about Imran.So does Gavaskar who has always been a good friend of Imran.

The way Imran is perceived by his peers all over the world cannot be wrong either' - Going by this statement, peers like Botham,Lamb,R.Smith,J.Reid, Sandhu,Mohinder,Maninder,Shastri,Aamer Sohail,Shahbaz Shereef,Rameez Raja, Sarfraz Nawaz too perceives

Imran with regard to 'fair play'. This too can't be wrong either.

 

As bowler Imran was far superior to Kaps even Kaps agreed to it. - I just simply can't agree with this statement even with out  taking 'tampering' factor into account.I have given my reason in details earlier. Imran was may be 2 levels above Kapil( tampering factor neglected)  but 'far superior' is stretching it too much.

 

A peak that existed 4 years & 4 months  where he got brilliant bowling support & played against Packer cricket weakend countries.Even here too he was exactly the opposite vs Windies. After that a 10+ years of utter mediocrity(trough).You must not forget that  his performances   in his peak was hugely influenced by  above factors. You are talking about jubilee test. Agreed .But must not forget that it is not all about numbers.

For instance Kapil's 41 & 89 along with '8 wkts out of 13 to fall' in the LORDS test was a brilliant all round performance.Ofcourse in numbers  both these performances differ considerably. But you have to take other factors like opposition bowling strength,support given by fellow bowlers etc etc too.To be more clear take another of Kapil's all round performance vs Pakistan at Karachi in 89.He took 7 wkts out of 15 PAK wkts to fall &  scored

55 runs of only 50 balls in the sole inns he played in that test.Runs may be only 55 but those were scored when IND was in serious trouble vs Wasim,Waqar,Imran & Qadir.55 runs vs such a quality bowling is worth more than a 100 vs a mediocre bowling unit. Hope you got my point. 

  Even after taking into account   all these factors numerically influencing 'all round performances' positively or negatively, i still feel Botham could put it together slightly better than Kapil .But apart from that factor, Kapil was better test batsman, better test bowler, better

one day batsman, better one day bowler, better captain &  better  all round fielder. So all these combined together, makes him eclipse Botham's slightly better  'all round performances' 

for me. 

I never denied Kapil has a better batsman than Imran but Botham scored a double hundred also.At his peak granted it lasted only for 50 tests he was almost averaging 37 with bat and 24 with ball.I do not know hold his record against WI against him.He was the captain and was going thru turmoil.50 tests is not a small sample during those 50 tests he scored 11 hundreds which is more than all other allrounders scored during their careers. Kapil also debuted around same time he also played against Packer cricket depleted sides and also against England a lot during that time.

 

You can hold Botham for not having  longer peak against him.But I look for player who at his peak of his game could he carry his team on his back or not. Botham certainly did just that better than any other allrounder of his era for that 5 years.

 

The reason I do not rate Imran as an allrounder  batting at no 6 you need some one to score runs at a faster pace. Imran had better defense but not that much better which overcomes his lack of other aspects of batting. Kapil rescued his side with some legendary knocks like Botham. 

 

 

[rtmohanlal]

16 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

The thing about Imran to consider, is that :

 

a) he cheated with ball tampering to get an unnaturally low average between 1982-1986. This period, Imran took 138 wickets from 24 tests at average of 14.31

 

Even in this period, his stats are revealing : he played 16 tests in Pakistan, taking 102 wickets @ 12.89, played 3 tests in SL (which in the 80s was the equivalent of playing Bangladesh or Zimbabwe of the current avatar), took 15 wickets @ 18.00, played 2 tests in Australia but did not bowl a single ball and played 3 tests in England, taking 21 wickets @ 18.57

 

b) After this period, i.e., from 1987-1990, Imran protected his bowling figures a lot, with the emergence of Wasim and Waqar. 

Imran would typically bowl 5-6 overs with the new ball, then 5-6 over with the old ball around 70-75 overs mark and end up with stuff like 

5-2-15-1 kind of figures on each spell. Ie, he for the large part, avoided bowling in his last 4 years unless the ball was absolutely new or really old.

 

really an eye opener w.r.t the extend of benefit Imran got from ball tampering & also from quality support bowlers like Wasim & Waqar.

I would say he benefitted even from captaincy because had he not been the captain he wouldn't have been able to 'typically bowl 5-6 overs with the new ball, then 5-6 over with the old ball around 70-75 overs mark and end up with stuff like  5-2-15-1 kind of figures on each spell'

 

A bowler who was averaging 29-30 on the avg:  all thru his life

in 70s  & that too playing with  very less work density ,all of a sudden turns into an 'out of the world' bowler.Then onwards he plays non stop cricket like playing    16 tests on the trot in a period of just 14.5 months &  picking bucket loads of wkts before getting injured.And 102 wkts in just 16 tests in generally hot & humid Pakistani conditions @ 12.89 is the icing on the cake.

 

Edited May 26, 2017 by rtmohanlal

[Khota]

There should be an asterix** behind all Pakistani bowlers before 2000. They cheated.

[rtmohanlal]

On 5/26/2017 at 6:29 PM, putrevus said:

I never denied Kapil has a better batsman than Imran but Botham scored a double hundred also.At his peak granted it lasted only for 50 tests he was almost averaging 37 with bat and 24 with ball.I do not know hold his record against WI against him.He was the captain and was going thru turmoil.50 tests is not a small sample during those 50 tests he scored 11 hundreds which is more than all other allrounders scored during their careers. Kapil also debuted around same time he also played against Packer cricket depleted sides and also against England a lot during that time.

 

You can hold Botham for not having  longer peak against him.But I look for player who at his peak of his game could he carry his team on his back or not. Botham certainly did just that better than any other allrounder of his era for that 5 years.

 

The reason I do not rate Imran as an allrounder  batting at no 6 you need some one to score runs at a faster pace. Imran had better defense but not that much better which overcomes his lack of other aspects of batting. Kapil rescued his side with some legendary knocks like Botham. 

 

 

Now that you are defining Botham's peak in terms of  the 100s scored, i would provide Kapil's peak too to have a comparison.

Kapil in a span of 46 tests & 67 inns

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/30028.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=start;runsmin1=73;runsval1=runs;spanmax1=28+apr+1983;spanmin1=24+jan+1979;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting;view=innings

Botham in a span of 48 tests & 72 inns

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/9163.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=start;runsmin1=73;runsval1=runs;spanmax1=13+Jul+1982;spanmin1=24+feb+1978;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting;view=innings

From the above data it is clear that Botham could  play 12   73+ inns to Kapils'  9  in their  respective peaks.More over Botham avg:ed  150

where as Kapil could avg: only 123.71.So nothing denies the fact that Botham  had a better peak than Kapil.

But consider these factors too. Firstly the 110.03 str: rate of Kapil.Means Kapil could score these 123.71 runs in mere 112.43 balls.Where as Botham  scored 150 runs at 74.88 means he took 200.32 balls for each 150 runs.This means Kapil was lot more destructive than Botham.l

Another point to note is the quality of the opposition bowlers.To score these 123.71 runs on the avg:, Kapil had to resist Imran,Willis,Underwood,Botham,Marshall,Roberts,Holding & Garner.A special mention  of Sylvester Clarke also is needed here as he was supposed to be the  most dangerous  of fast bowlers(one anecdote goes by that it was against Clarke only that ViV wore a helmet)

On the other  hand Botham needed to resist only  Hadlee,Kapil &,Lillee  to score these 150 runs on the avg:.

Ofcourse for both Botham & Kapil there were some other very good bowlers  too whom needed to be seen off. 

Another thing to take note is that just like 'peak' need to be credited 'more than normal', trough also needs  to be 'discredited than normal, atleast by half measure as that of 'peak'.

 

So taking  the above 3 factors namely destruction, quality of bowling & discrediting the trough into account  the gap reduces considerably ,though i still do not reject the fact that Botham had a better peak.

But just for this slightly better 'peak factor' alone , I can't neglect the fact that Kapil was the better test batsman, test bowler,one day batsman, one day bowler , captain & all round fielder.Of these,  in one dayers & captaincy Kapil was comfortably much better.

W.R.T packer cricket, i agree with you in that Kapil also benefitted, but not to the level as that of Botham it seems.

 

W.R.T your exclaiming as to what was the big deal in performing against Windies, you would be aware that they were the best team of their times.Naturally a great player in any team  is supposed to perform greatly against the best team of their era,especially abroad.This factor carries a lot of weightage. This is one of the main factors as to  why batsmen like Chanderpaul, Mahela Jayawardene etc  are not included in the categoryof Sachin . Botham fell apart miserably in this peak while Kapil achieved something  that even a lot of  specialist batsmen couldn't do. To avg: 42.33 in this peak, to score 2 nearly run a ball 100s, to absolutely demolish perhaps the most deadly bowling unit of all time in Windies.     

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2017 by rtmohanlal
correction

[rtmohanlal]

On 5/26/2017 at 3:30 AM, Rightarmfast said:

I think Chris Cairns and Heath Streak are heavily under rated. And due to the same reason as Kapil Dev. Both Chris and Heath played for a very mediocre side. They were both the spearhead of their bowling attack and also the workhorse. Both were good batsmen, without being exceptional, however more often than not they would have batting collapses and too much of burden on them.

 

If these 2 were playing for different team, they would be legends. In the same way, had Kapil played for a stronger team, lets say Australia, he would have been an even bigger legend and without doubt would be considered way better than Imran.

yes Chris Cairns & Sreak are underrated for sure... the only reason i don't place them along the FAB 4 of 80s is because  they lacks longevity.

Personally i do not underrate them either, because I take  the factor of 'them having played for a mediocre side' as a context  & rate them much more  their stats  just as i do in the case of Kapil Dev. 

[the don]

Imran khan was the best of all time . He is unanimously rated by the legends and the neutrals as the best only behind Sobers . The rest are not in the same ballpark . He was the most charming , the most influential , biggest fan following ( male and female ) . Was the best and most versatile cricketer of the lot .  Lol at nerds who think he couldnt hit the big shots . A man who hit bowlers like ambrose and the australian lot for some of the biggest sixes of all time couldnt hit  ,  ya right . He had a different role most of the time that was to get Pakistan to a respectable total. Pakistan being a bowling team  He was responsible not reckless .

In a nutshell the most charismatic cricketer of all time and the greatest from the subcontinent . 

Imran 

Sobers

Botham 

Hadlee

Kallis 

Kapil

Thats how most neutrals and those who played against them rate these guys . I would go with the same.

 

 

Edited May 29, 2017 by the don

[kira]

12 minutes ago, the don said:

Imran khan was the best of all time . He is unanimously rated by the legends and the neutrals as the best only behind Sobers . The rest are not in the same ballpark . He was the most charming , the most influential , biggest fan following ( male and female ) . Was the best and most versatile cricketer of the lot .  Lol at nerds who think he couldnt hit the big shots . A man who hit bowlers like ambrose and the australian lot for some of the biggest sixes of all time couldnt hit  ,  ya right . He had a different role most of the time that was to get Pakistan to a respectable total. Pakistan being a bowling team  He was responsible not reckless .

In a nutshell the most charismatic cricketer of all time and the greatest from the subcontinent . 

Imran 

Sobers

Botham 

Hadlee

Kallis 

Kapil

Thats how most neutrals and those who played against them rate these guys . I would go with the same.

 

 

Yet, phateechar khan is left out of almost every all time XI picked by the greats of the game  lol at the neutrals, get out of your Pakistani bubble

[rtmohanlal]

2 hours ago, the don said:

Imran khan was the best of all time . He is unanimously rated by the legends and the neutrals as the best only behind Sobers . The rest are not in the same ballpark . He was the most charming , the most influential , biggest fan following ( male and female ) . Was the best and most versatile cricketer of the lot .  Lol at nerds who think he couldnt hit the big shots . A man who hit bowlers like ambrose and the australian lot for some of the biggest sixes of all time couldnt hit  ,  ya right . He had a different role most of the time that was to get Pakistan to a respectable total. Pakistan being a bowling team  He was responsible not reckless .

In a nutshell the most charismatic cricketer of all time and the greatest from the subcontinent . 

Imran 

Sobers

Botham 

Hadlee

Kallis 

Kapil

Thats how most neutrals and those who played against them rate these guys . I would go with the same.

 

 

Delusional Pakistanis think that even after day in day out testimonies w.r.t  ball tampering allegations against Khan by lots of cricket related people

including himself &  even several of his country men, his legacy as a great player  is not affected a bit & still intact as such. Come on man ...a lot of common people who believe in fair play & ethics can't any more take his stats as such  because of his bottle top operations.You Pakistani can still live in that delusion. No problems.

 

Edited May 29, 2017 by rtmohanlal
correction

[the don]

15 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

Delusional Pakistanis think that even after day in day out testimonies w.r.t  ball tampering allegations against Khan by lots of cricket related people

including himself &  even several of his country men, his legacy as a great player  is not affected a bit & still intact as such. Common man ...a lot of common people who believe in fair play & ethics can't any more take his stats as such  because of his bottle top operations.You Pakistani can still live in that delusion. No problems.

 

Sachin tendulkar and dravid have been caught ball tampering . You as a common man who believes in fair play should feel ashamed.

Remember how Imran owned srikanth after recalling him as he went back having a sook .Guess who called for neutral umpires ?? 

No neutral ever mentions kapil in the same breath as the great khan because its a crime . He just wasnt good enough whichever way you look at it . 

Imran was easily the best of the fab 4 followed by Botham . Headlee was a great bowler while kapil was a good cricketer but didnt belong to that elite company . Lots of respect for him being the first military medium bowler from his country but at the world level as noted by the neutrals and even ex cricketers from his own country like sanjay manjrekar and many others he was nowhere near the league of Imran .