TOP 5 all rounders of all time

[Tattieboy]

55 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Fairly convinced that a lot of English/OZ/SAF/NZ/ bowlers probably tampered with the ball as well. 

But your convinced Indian bowlers didn't. 

Another Indian bedroom keyboard warrior making wild allegations without zero proof 

[cric_fan]

Yeah. Sobers' bowling is a little overrated IMO. Imran at his peak was an extremely destructive bowler and later in was a good test match batsman.

 

Bhai, stop it..they are already bitter. Why torture them further.

[Rightarmfast]

2 hours ago, Tattieboy said:

Ian Botham was banned from cricket for a period after admitting smoking canibas.  I suggest you think before  making a statement like that, you could find yourself in a lot of trouble legally 

Please go ahead and lodge a legal complaint against me!

[Nikhil_cric]

1 hour ago, Tattieboy said:

But your convinced Indian bowlers didn't. 

Another Indian bedroom keyboard warrior making wild allegations without zero proof 

Did not say that at all. Saffers have been caught tampering and even NZ bowlers have admitted to it in the past. English bowlers and their use of mints is well known. When was the last time an Indian bowler was caught tampering?

[Tattieboy]

3 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Please go ahead and lodge a legal complaint against me!

Not me you are slandering 

[Tattieboy]

4 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Did not say that at all. Saffers have been caught tampering and even NZ bowlers have admitted to it in the past. English bowlers and their use of mints is well known. When was the last time an Indian bowler was caught tampering?

But you didn't say caught tampering.  You said " Fairly  convinced a lot of English /Oz/Saff/ NZ probably tampered  with the ball as well" but not convinced at anytime an Indian bowler  probably  tampered with ball?

[Nikhil_cric]

Just now, Tattieboy said:

But you didn't say caught tampering.  You said " Fairly  convinced a lot of English /Oz/Saff/ NZ probably tampered  with the ball as well" but not convinced at anytime an Indian bowler  probably  tampered with ball?

SAF/Pakistani/NZ/English cricketers have been caught tampering with the ball or have admitted to doing so. The fairly convinced part was for OZ when Ryan Harris started reversing the ball in the 3rd test out of nowhere after they accused SA of doing the same in the 2nd test. When was the last time you saw anything about ball tampering related to the Indian team. 

[Tattieboy]

5 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

SAF/Pakistani/NZ/English cricketers have been caught tampering with the ball or have admitted to doing so. The fairly convinced part was for OZ when Ryan Harris started reversing the ball in the 3rd test out of nowhere after they accused SA of doing the same in the 2nd test. When was the last time you saw anything about ball tampering related to the Indian team. 

Tampering is not just limited to bowlers 

 

For your information I played with 2 Indians,  one test and one Ranjit Trophy who " tampered " with the ball 

[Nikhil_cric]

30 minutes ago, Tattieboy said:

Tampering is not just limited to bowlers 

 

For your information I played with 2 Indians,  one test and one Ranjit Trophy who " tampered " with the ball 

Did not say it was limited to bowlers.

[Rightarmfast]

4 hours ago, Tattieboy said:

Not me you are slandering 

Then keep it to yourself, dont go around preaching. You want to take legal action, then take else keep shut! In any event, Botham was the worst of all allrounders

Edited May 24, 2017 by Rightarmfast

[kira]

6 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Haha :) Do I know you from PP? The rashtra forever brother. I actually rate Dravid higher. What I meant was YK's record was comparable. However, it is important to be objective while comparing no matter what our personal preferences are. 

Of course you know me, I was the proud rashtra member on PP, upholding the pride of rashtra but you have gone astray brother, sadly you have fallen to the green propaganda, our rashtra brother @Prince_ has also joined ICF but he has gone astray too, sadly. YK is isn't fit enough to tie dravid's shoelaces and Sobers over bottle topper khan each day of the week

[kira]

7 hours ago, Tattieboy said:

Ian Botham was banned from cricket for a period after admitting smoking canibas.  I suggest you think before  making a statement like that, you could find yourself in a lot of trouble legally 

 Ian botham was a drug addict, chal aja kar case, tattie 

[Nikhil_cric]

34 minutes ago, kira said:

Of course you know me, I was the proud rashtra member on PP, upholding the pride of rashtra but you have gone astray brother, sadly you have fallen to the green propaganda, our rashtra brother @Prince_ has also joined ICF but he has gone astray too, sadly. YK is isn't fit enough to tie dravid's shoelaces and Sobers over bottle topper khan each day of the week

Carrom ball?

[kira]

5 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Carrom ball?

Yes, and Straight_Drive before that 

[Ultimate_Game]

7 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

The problem with Botham was that the others were ATG level good in their primary suit - Imran/Hadlee in bowling and Sobers/Kallis in batting so I picked those 4 and then 5 was between Botham and Kapil and I went for Kapil because he didn't have the luxury of bowling with Bob Willis or get to bowl in English conditions for the majority of his career. 

But Botham was one of the rare players who could win you matches with either his batting or bowling. He changed matches with his batting as well as bowling and at some point or another in his career he commanded a place in England team on the strength of one of the two disciplines.

[Tattieboy]

1 hour ago, Rightarmfast said:

Then keep it to yourself, dont go around preaching. You want to take legal action, then take else keep shut! In any event, Botham was the worst of all allrounders

Of course he was ☺☺☺

[Nikhil_cric]

25 minutes ago, kira said:

Yes, and Straight_Drive before that 

Jai Shri Ram brother! Good to see you :)

[rtmohanlal]

8 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

The problem with Botham was that the others were ATG level good in their primary suit - Imran/Hadlee in bowling and Sobers/Kallis in batting so I picked those 4 and then 5 was between Botham and Kapil and I went for Kapil because he didn't have the luxury of bowling with Bob Willis or get to bowl in English conditions for the majority of his career. 

i doubt  as to your line of thinking is correct when we filter out all rounders. The term itself means skilled in more than one discipline.Quite naturally a  player who is more skilled in his weaker discipline  gets more priority. For instance take Kapil & Hadlee.  Hadlee was better than Kapil  in bowling(stronger discipline but Kapil was better in batting(weaker discipline of both the players).So Kapil is the better rounded because Hadlee  is too leniant  towards 1 discipline .Just my thoughts...  

[Khota]

Pakistani threatening legal action. What is new about that.

[putrevus]

On 5/23/2017 at 0:23 PM, rtmohanlal said:

i  only said ' Kapil was more destructive than Viv'. Neither taking any thing away  from Imran

for totally changing his action and becoming a genuine pace bowler from medium pacer.Kapil

at the first place got 'knee surgery' mainly because of playing nonstop cricket in his first 5 years & 5 months where he played  62 tests & took 247 wkts in addition to playing one dayers.Kapil after 1984 knee surgery became a pale version of himself  because he straight away started playing  with out taking any rest after his surgery.This resulted in him picking only 64 wkts in next 26 tests @ around 36 avg:. This i would call as 'heavy workload' as a result of placing country before self.

If Kapil has better home record than away record so has Imran.You admit that Kapil has immense workload & discredit him.But i take it as a cricketing context and evaluate Kapil based on that too along with lack of adequate support bowling strength. 

Yes Kapil's record in ENG was below avg:, but  'immense workload ' & 'lack of adequate support bowling strength' played huge role's in Kapil's end avg: as a whole & there by his avg:s in individual countries.

Another of your statement seemed a little comical to me.'Imran or Wasim or Waqar had their stats enhanced a little by ball tampering and home umpiring'. As per you it is only 'a little' despite the testimony of a lot of cricket related people.And you says they  had butter fingered fielders who gave them minimal support & gives more weightage to this .I think it is the opposite way.Again it is not as if Kapil had brilliant set of fielder to support him. Fielding became  more professional only in the 90s with Southafrica arriving headed by  the irreplacable Jhonty Rhodes & AUS becoming more professsional & skilled in 'sliding'  etc etc.Till then fielding was only amateurish with a few players like Logie,Viv,Azharuddin  being brillliant.

 

W.R.T Botham, i still remember those healthy discussions with you  few months before in one of the topics.Here too i have specified several reasons as to why I place Kapil above Botham.Yes..in that  4 year peak period Botham was magnificient against Packer weakened teams bar Windies(beat team of their era). Quite  naturally Botham put some brilliant all round performances.But that performances were hugely  influenced by him being in the company of Willis & Underwood. Even then he couldn't reach any where near to that level vs Windies.More over it is not about  numbers only  .Quality too matters. For instance Kapil's 100* & 3 wkts vs WI in WI  against that strong side  is lot better than scoring some 150 & taking 6 wkts  vs a mediocre side.To be more precise you can't take Coventry's 194  & Saeed Anwar's 194 as of the same worth despite having same numeric value.Yet I feel that Botham was slightly able to put  more all round performance together than Kapil.But for me, Kapil being basically better to Botham in all departments  namely  test batting,test bowling,  one day batting,one day bowling,fielding & captaincy eclipses Botham comfortably.

Immense load did hurt Kapil but he was a greater threat in India than England.The away from home weakness which haunts us still was at there then too. Kapil is still my favorite cricketer , he is one guy who changed the whole cricketing world not just Indian cricket.1983 World cup effect on cricketing world is so huge.

 

I changed my opinion on Imran after watching Kapil himself talk so highly about Imran. Imran also did not have any fast bowlers to guide him. The way Imran is perceived by his peers all over the world cannot be wrong either.As bowler Imran was far superior to Kaps even Kaps agreed to it.

 

W.R.T. Botham you are under estimating how good he was at his peak, he and Kapil played many matches together. Look at his performance in golden jubilee test that was a legendary performance.At his best there was nothing he could do, he was an excellent slip fielder too.For me it is not just all about stats.Imran has better average than Botham but Botham was way superior batsman than Imran.

 

 

Edited May 25, 2017 by putrevus