NDA Government Will Find Permanent Solution To Kashmir Issue: Rajnath Singh

[someone]

1 hour ago, mishra said:

For example if tommorrow Infosys opens a office of 2000 employees and say 5 more companies open 5 more offices, do you think 10000 new jobs wont help? Will the educated employees base will say I want to stay in Kashmir and dont want to Go to US/UK/Europe assignment and earn in $$$$.

And wont this sea change in earning be reflected in society. And wouldn't parent start pushing their kids to emulate the same.

As i mentioned, Introduce private sector in Kashmir and youth  will have alternative space. Right now they wait on Government for job creation and rely on tourism and only tourism. You need in your face approach.

Radicalization, That is a risk in every part of India. The opposition for that must also come from within the Kashmiri Mislim society.

Look, your idea is good in principle but not practical. No business will open in Kashmir as there is no security nor infrastructure there. Then, participation is low there as seen with the low turnout in elections so democracy is failing there currently. Overall,  progress, jobs help but they only solve the problem from the outside. Look at the west, with jobs & money, there are still people going to terror. Radicalization is the big issue and difficult to solve. It's a world problem after all.

[mishra]

53 minutes ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said:

You had a suggestion that Modi should go ahead without RS support. I found that good. What is now stopping you from requesting government to take that action. Now BJP on their own may have RS majority. What should stop them

 

So what effort did this government take to change the situation and why have these steps failed till now. I find it very shameful when someone says that soldiers will continue to die. In that case why were previous governments criticized by this current government on death of soldiers. 

Tell a alternative solution which stops death of soldiers from tomorrow? Dont just make hollow remarks.

pS : what is stopping u from tweeting same on twitter

[mishra]

6 minutes ago, someone said:

Look, your idea is good in principle but not practical. No business will open in Kashmir as there is no security nor infrastructure there. Then, participation is low there as seen with the low turnout in elections so democracy is failing there currently. Overall,  progress, jobs help but they only solve the problem from the outside. Look at the west, with jobs & money, there are still people going to terror. Radicalization is the big issue and difficult to solve. It's a world problem after all.

I absolutely get ur point. Along with job creation i dont mind GoI do exactly what west is doing with radicals. i e facilitate a journey to fight holy war in Middle east

[Haarkarjeetgaye]

1 minute ago, mishra said:

Tell a alternative solution which stops death of soldiers from tomorrow? Dont just make hollow remarks.

pS : what is stopping u from tweeting same on twitter

Your suggestion. I don't believe the government responds to such suggestions, hence not posting.

 

So if you can think that it is difficult to save the lives of soldiers, then why did this current government criticize its predecessors and made statements like chudi pehen lo. They should be open to same criticism, more so because they made chest thumping statements, which look now more like vote garnering tactics. 

[mishra]

^ How do u know government doesnt respond? Btw my suggestion was something which gives BJP political mileage.

BJP haa anyway said it will repeal 370 if it thinks it can. And i feel that will be start of change in Kashmir

Now previous government never even talked such language.

ps: as usual hollow opposition doesnt gives any respect. Also Say something whiich people buy as solution

[Haarkarjeetgaye]

2 minutes ago, mishra said:

^ How do u know government doesnt respond? Btw my suggestion was something which gives BJP political mileage.

BJP haa anyway said it will repeal 370 if it thinks it can. And i feel that will be start of change in Kashmir

Now previous government never even talked such language.

ps: as usual hollow opposition doesnt gives any respect. Also Say something whiich people buy as solution

Did you get a response? Let's see if you do. Let's also see if BJP repeals 370, when they are in majority in both houses. I don't expect. These are hollow statements. 

[mishra]

2 minutes ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said:

Did you get a response? Let's see if you do. Let's also see if BJP repeals 370, when they are in majority in both houses. I don't expect. These are hollow statements. 

Is there some technical issue to abolishment of 370? Which i am not aware?

[Haarkarjeetgaye]

1 minute ago, mishra said:

Is there some technical issue to abolishment of 370? Which i am not aware?

I am not aware either. My guess is it leads to loss of Kashmir or that is the basis of Kashmir being with India till a plebiscite is held. That is why previous governments did not do it, including BJP and this government knows it cannot be done. Wait and watch what Rajnath Singh has in his mind. 

[kubrickian]

3 hours ago, someone said:

Look, your idea is good in principle but not practical. No business will open in Kashmir as there is no security nor infrastructure there. Then, participation is low there as seen with the low turnout in elections so democracy is failing there currently. Overall,  progress, jobs help but they only solve the problem from the outside. Look at the west, with jobs & money, there are still people going to terror. Radicalization is the big issue and difficult to solve. It's a world problem after all.

When I said in this forum that Kashmir issue is also connected to mindset of radical Muslims(jihadi mentality) someone immediately denied it and said it has nothing to do with it. I was blunt in wording it saying radical Muslims will never trust the majority when they are of a different faith and will attempt to secede or if they are in majority will attempt to convert the minorities. Similar thing has been happening in rest of the world. But when anyone says something like this, it will be considered intolerant.

 

The fake liberals and those who live in denial are the ones who contribute to these problems.

[cowboysfan]

Too much bullshit even for BJP,i bet Modi is cringing at this statement.

[Muloghonto]

1 hour ago, kubrickian said:

When I said in this forum that Kashmir issue is also connected to mindset of radical Muslims(jihadi mentality) someone immediately denied it and said it has nothing to do with it. I was blunt in wording it saying radical Muslims will never trust the majority when they are of a different faith and will attempt to secede or if they are in majority will attempt to convert the minorities. Similar thing has been happening in rest of the world. But when anyone says something like this, it will be considered intolerant.

 

The fake liberals and those who live in denial are the ones who contribute to these problems.

The bolded part is true, but what is the solution ? You can't kill off extremists, because for every 1 you kill, 3 of his children will turn extremist. 

You cant kick them off the land too, because who will take them and what is the mechanism of kicking natives out of their own country ? 

Sure, we can improve the situation by curbing illegal border crossings and immigration of muslims into india, but we already have 170 million of them and even a small percentage of radicals make it hundreds of thousands of radicals. 

The only potential way that has worked, is communism/totalitarianism, such as USSR practiced in Central asia (no Islamic rebellions or anything in the USSR period in the central asian countries) or China is doing in Xinjiang. But that is not an option for India, because there is no way Indians will follow a government that goes 'do as we tell you and if you ask questions, you die/disappear'. 

So what is the solution ?

[Muloghonto]

Btw, unless Rajnath is talking about accepting a modified 'Chenab formula' that allows us to keep Ladakh and Jammu while hand over Kashmir, its difficult to see what BJP can do in the next 2-3 years to solve Kashmir. Article 370 isn't going away till BJP has a 2/3rd majority in the Rajya Sabha. Which is still long, long ways away. 

 

[kubrickian]

1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

The bolded part is true, but what is the solution ? You can't kill off extremists, because for every 1 you kill, 3 of his children will turn extremist. 

You cant kick them off the land too, because who will take them and what is the mechanism of kicking natives out of their own country ? 

Sure, we can improve the situation by curbing illegal border crossings and immigration of muslims into india, but we already have 170 million of them and even a small percentage of radicals make it hundreds of thousands of radicals. 

The only potential way that has worked, is communism/totalitarianism, such as USSR practiced in Central asia (no Islamic rebellions or anything in the USSR period in the central asian countries) or China is doing in Xinjiang. But that is not an option for India, because there is no way Indians will follow a government that goes 'do as we tell you and if you ask questions, you die/disappear'. 

So what is the solution ?

I disagree. You cant be soft on terrorism because they will always be a threat to security. Any terrorist threat should be eliminated with force. Not being assertive enough will be seen as a weakness by the terrorists and they will recruit more people and grow stronger.

 

The solution is not easy and simple. Its a process which is already in place but needs to be executed despite roadblocks. The intention should be to eliminate terror cells operating in the area, ensuring normalcy, conducting elections, improving job opportunities, improving standard of living, having better governance, winning back the confidence of the people and making them believe their interests are safeguarded while being part of India.

[Muloghonto]

3 minutes ago, kubrickian said:

I disagree. You cant be soft on terrorism because they will always be a threat to security. Any terrorist threat should be eliminated with force. Not being assertive enough will be seen as a weakness by the terrorists and they will recruit more people and grow stronger.

 

The solution is not easy and simple. Its a process which is already in place but needs to be executed despite roadblocks. The intention should be to eliminate terror cells operating in the area, ensuring normalcy, conducting elections, improving job opportunities, improving standard of living, having better governance, winning back the confidence of the people and making them believe their interests are safeguarded while being part of India.

Yes, but killing extremists will not solve extremism. It will just keep the lid from blowing off and us engulfed in extremist violence. Eliminating terrorists by force, is an option that is 'holding the line'. Not attacking it at its root- which is CREATION of terrorists. For that, re-education is the only way. 

[mishra]

16 hours ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said:

I am not aware either. My guess is it leads to loss of Kashmir or that is the basis of Kashmir being with India till a plebiscite is held. That is why previous governments did not do it, including BJP and this government knows it cannot be done. Wait and watch what Rajnath Singh has in his mind. 

That is false. Shouldnt you be more careful at making guesses specially if if its separatist.

Fact: The reason plebiscite cant be done is as first step Pakistan to vacate Pok.

Now various clauses of 370 has been eroded over time but most controversial of land ownership has been kept Sacrosanct. Now if repealing is too much then GoI should start with asking Muftis Kashmir to lease various parts of uninhibited Kashmir to India or Indian for say 999 years or so.

[Haarkarjeetgaye]

14 minutes ago, mishra said:

That is false. Shouldnt you be more careful at making guesses specially if if its separatist.

Fact: The reason plebiscite cant be done is as first step Pakistan to vacate Pok.

Now various clauses of 370 has been eroded over time but most controversial of land ownership has been kept Sacrosanct. Now if repealing is too much then GoI should start with asking Muftis Kashmir to lease various parts of uninhibited Kashmir to India or Indian for say 999 years or so.

Plebiscite is also separatist. If what you are saying  is the case BJP should repeal 370. Why wait for majority in RS. Propose it right away. 

[Muloghonto]

4 minutes ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said:

Plebiscite is also separatist. If what you are saying  is the case BJP should repeal 370. Why wait for majority in RS. Propose it right away. 

Because LS cannot do anything about 370, its under RS purview. 

[mishra]

12 minutes ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said:

Plebiscite is also separatist. If what you are saying  is the case BJP should repeal 370. Why wait for majority in RS. Propose it right away. 

You see, Just a lil thinking and i come up with a alternative which keeps both parties happy along with one further step towards integration. GoI will have a think tank. As long as they are trying i am happier, because previous governments havent done anything to resolve the issue.

 

But what you said was spreading misinformation.

Edited May 23, 2017 by mishra

[Haarkarjeetgaye]

11 minutes ago, mishra said:

You see, Just a lil thinking and i come up with a alternative which keeps both parties happy along with one further step towards integration. GoI will have a think tank. As long as they are trying i am happier, because previous governments havent done anything to resolve the issue.

 

But what you said was spreading misinformation.

 

18 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Because LS cannot do anything about 370, its under RS purview. 

It was a guess. Because step 2 in the plebiscite is India pulling out of Kashmir. Why is it stuck in RS. Who is not wanting it to pass if that is the solution. 

 

There re are news and interview I have seen where people on both sides have claimed that Atal govt was close to solving the issue 

Edited May 23, 2017 by Haarkarjeetgaye

[Haarkarjeetgaye]

From wiki it is part of the constitution confirmed by SC in 2015 . In the case of Jammu and Kashmir, the representatives to the Constituent Assembly^[5]requested that only those provisions of the Indian Constitution that corresponded to the original Instrument of Accession should be applied to the State. Accordingly, the Article 370 was incorporated into the Indian Constitution, which stipulated that the other articles of the Constitution that gave powers to the Central Government would be applied to Jammu and Kashmir only with the concurrence of the State's constituent assembly. This was a "temporary provision" in that its applicability was intended to last till the formulation and adoption of the State's constitution.^[6] However, the State's constituent assembly dissolved itself on 25 January 1957 without recommending either abrogation or amendment of the Article 370. Thus the Article has become a permanent feature of the Indian constitution, as confirmed by various rulings of the Supreme Court of India and the High Court of Jammu and Kashmir, the latest of which was in October 2015.^{[7][8][9][10]}

Edited May 23, 2017 by Haarkarjeetgaye