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Bumrah vs Hasan Ali ---- Who's better prospect.


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5 minutes ago, sandeep said:

142 sounds about right for Bhuvi's topend pace.  I thought someone posted Bhuvi at 145+ - that's what made me think there's a bit of padding.  

And Hassan Ali looks skiddy quick who surprises batsmen with his pace, but I don't think he's 145 plus either.  

Hasan Ali's quickest deliveries have been generally  143 k to 141 k ..... looks visually ok to me... he is not bowling 145 k

 

Bhuvi has bowled 1  deliveries each  at  144 k and 143 k in this tournament, both in the same match.... but has generally bowled 142 k to 140 k while bowling his quicker deliveries.... and that looks about right to me      : )

Edited by express bowling
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17 hours ago, sandeep said:

Just a slight disagreement.  They are similar type of bowlers, not similar calibre.    Bhuvi has match-winning 5-fers in test cricket.   And has been in cricket for so many years.   Hassan has played a handful of games - needs to stick around for a couple of years before he can claim the same "calibre".   I've already pointed out the skills difference between Hassan and Bhuvi.  

 

Not to knock him too much, he looks a very handy bowler.  Excellent find for Pak team.  And a massive upgrade over the likes of Wahab in white ball cricket.  But let's not get carried away with greenbro bias and over-exaggerate his abilities and achievements.  

Calibre means ability and i believe that Hassan has similar ability to Bhuvi. Obviously, the hard data is not sufficent enough to be used as evidence. Therefore, my opinion is based on what i have seen of the two bowlers. Both are handy with the bat as well interestingly. 

Anyone is an upgrade over Wahab who is a trash bowler. There is no greenbias, sir. Calling Bumrah as world's best white ball bowler is bias.

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4 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Bumrah is a wicket taking bowler, averaging 24 with an SR of 30 in ODIs. SR of 30 in ODI is as good you can get.

Let us not kid ourselves bro with stats. Let's say there is a big partnership built or Indian bowlers are leaking runs without taking wickets on a batting friendly wicket, one cannot expect Bumrah to take wickets. Yes he can contain runs to an extent. Also he should not be bowling upfront. Most times he creates an angle into the batsman while bowling upfront. 

Bowlers like Shami, Umesh, Starc, etc are real wicket taking bowlers.

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@express bowling Hassan Ali has bowled a fastest of 146kph, which I actually saw. But thats not his normal pace. He bowls normally around 132ish to 139ish.

 

Why Hassan Ali is different than other Pakistani bowlers and why I like him - His attitude. He comes across as a level headed, focussed youngster who is taking his time and learning with each outing. Players like these have been a rarity for Pakistan cricket for a decade now. He doesnt have the unnecessary agression of Azhar mahmood, but has a calming effect like Abdul Razzaq around him.

 

The negatives for Hassan Ali - Biggest negative - PCB! Pakistan cricket board is known to spoil real talent and I wont be surprised if the same happens to Hassan Ali.  Point no 2) - Lack of a mentor - The same bug which was biting the Indian bowlers of yesteryears. I doubt he has any good mentor around him to groom him and to support him. And this perhaps is going to affect his overall career!

 

Compare this with Bumrah - Similar attitude, willingness to learn, always a smile on his face, good pace and most importantly, he is part of a champion side in which each player competes with the other in terms of outperforming the other. A good coach and mentor is never far for any Idnian cricketer now. And this may be the biggest difference between the 2 bowlers!

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3 minutes ago, sarchasm said:

So is it your assessment that neither Bumrah nor Hasan are wicket taking bowlers?

It looks we have different interpretations of wicket taking bowler. Your interpretation may be if there are wickets to show then a bowler is wicket taking.

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6 minutes ago, Pollack said:

It looks we have different interpretations of wicket taking bowler. Your interpretation may be if there are wickets to show then a bowler is wicket taking.

Because if there is a big partnership then it is very difficult to break that partnership for any bowler. It is not how wicket taking bowler is defined. A bowler taking wickets at the death when batsmen are trying to hit is also a wicket taking bowler like Bumrah does with his yorkers and slower balls. Every wicket makes sure you have less runs to chase or more runs to defend even if those wickets are at the death. Remember one India-England match recently match which he turned around with his bowling.

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11 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Because if there is a big partnership then it is very difficult to break that partnership for any bowler. It is not how wicket taking bowler is defined. A bowler taking wickets at the death when batsmen are trying to hit is also a wicket taking bowler like Bumrah does with his yorkers and slower balls. Every wicket makes sure you have less runs to chase or more runs to defend even if those wickets are at the death. Remember one India-England match recently match which he turned around with his bowling.

If you define it that way then fine. :two_thumbs_up: Personally would continue to follow narrower definition.  Yorkers and slower balls would go waste if batsman is not looking to score. A genuine wicket taker (in my opinion )creates opportunity no matter if its first over or death overs.

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4 minutes ago, sarchasm said:

Not at all, I have no interpretation or such. Just curious about your motive behind the thread since you say it's a valid comparison. You also say Bumrah is not a wicket taker. This can only mean that you also do not think Hasan is a wicket taker? Otherwise what makes it a valid comparison? I am a little puzzled here so would love some clarity.

Both are relatively new players to their teams. Both usually don't bowl the new ball. Both are more suited for ODI. Though Hasan can also easily make it work in tests. For Bumrah it looks difficult. There is no motive as such. If you feel its not worth the discussion then its fine and can safely ignore.

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3 hours ago, Pollack said:

 in tests. For Bumrah it looks difficult. 

Hit the deck pacers who are very accurate and get some bounce and seam movement ....  have often done really well in test matches.  Additionally, Bumrah has  pace, can reverse the ball and has  a good FC record  ( average 25 , SR 56  ).

 

I think Bumrah will do well in test matches.  Should take over from Ishant Sharma.

Edited by express bowling
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2 hours ago, Pollack said:

Let us not kid ourselves bro with stats. Let's say there is a big partnership built or Indian bowlers are leaking runs without taking wickets on a batting friendly wicket, one cannot expect Bumrah to take wickets. Yes he can contain runs to an extent. Also he should not be bowling upfront. Most times he creates an angle into the batsman while bowling upfront. 

Bowlers like Shami, Umesh, Starc, etc are real wicket taking bowlers.

It's not often that you see a Wasim or a Waqar kind of bowler walk into the Indian team. Until then, you have to stick to the Bumrahs and the Bhuvneshwars. As long as they stick to the basics with a good discipline and attitude it is fine. Who knows, one of them might go on to be a great bowler. I agree about Shami but Umesh has a lot to improve. He, however should rightly be in the mix of things.

Edited by The Dark Horse
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3 hours ago, StarWolf said:

Calibre means ability and i believe that Hassan has similar ability to Bhuvi. Obviously, the hard data is not sufficent enough to be used as evidence. Therefore, my opinion is based on what i have seen of the two bowlers. Both are handy with the bat as well interestingly. 

Anyone is an upgrade over Wahab who is a trash bowler. There is no greenbias, sir. Calling Bumrah as world's best white ball bowler is bias.

Can Hassan Ali swing the ball both ways? No.  Can Hassan Ali bowl a knuckleball that is almost impossible for batsmen to pick from the hand? No.

 

So they don't have the same ability.   

 

 

And yes, I stand by my opinion that Bumrah is best at what he does - he's the best in the business in white ball cricket in terms of run throttling.   And that's his primary purpose.  You try to score off him, you will have to risks and are likely to get out.   Simple as that.  His economy rate is going to separate itself even more from the likes of Hassan, who while a handy prospect, is by no means that great a bowler - which means he'll always have to earn wickets by giving runs.  

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21 minutes ago, The Dark Horse said:

It's not often that you see a Wasim or a Waqar kind of bowler walk into the Indian team. Until then, you have to stick to the Bumrahs and the Bhuvneshwars. As long as they stick to the basics with a good discipline and attitude it is fine. Who knows, one of them might go on to be a great bowler. I agree about Shami but Umesh has a lot to improve. He, however should rightly be in the mix of things.

Even the likes of Wasim and Waqar got spanked on flat pattas.   History has a funny way of exaggerating the past.  

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