Being too dependent on Kohli is still costing us crucial ODI games

[BeautifulGame]

3 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

Lol you answered yourself, so player with highest average is Kohli, even though he failed in the final in CT.

 

 

 

Since every game in this tournament is important and not just final.

 

 

What exactly are u trying to say?

[BeautifulGame]

 

What personal, you are clearly saying every game is important in ICC tournaments and then later say, no one cares about other knocks while Kohli still ended the tournament with higher average than other players, even higher average than Golden bat Dhawan.

 

 

 

Nothing personal, just stating facts to you.if you can defend the stats then do. 

 

 

 

 

Where did I say Kohli had poor stats .

 

 

Perhaps it was harsh and wrong for me tto saying no one cares about India Pakistan .It was my individual pov anyway.

 

I don't care about stats outside big tournaments.Bilaterals India vs Pakistan or whoever else are kinda meaningless matches in my pov.

 

The point is scoring in big games is what matters most.

[Cricketics]

2 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

 

Where did I say Kohli had poor stats .

 

Perhaps it was harsh and wrong for me tto saying no one cares about India Pakistan .It was my individual pov anyway.

I don't care about stats outside big tournaments.Bilaterals India vs Pakistan or whoever else is meaningless matches in my pov.

Thats fine, everyone has opinion.

 

Just that, the whole point of the thread was that we really need a strong middle order as the moment Kohli falls, we get in trouble  in important tournaments.

 

[BeautifulGame]

Lol you answered yourself, so player with highest average is Kohli, even though he failed in the final in CT.

 

 

 

Since every game in this tournament is important and not just final.

 

 

 

Every game is important in ICC tournaments but finals are what most important.

 

It's winning the trophy what matters.Not individual stats ,it isn't a criticism of Kohli either.

 

I already said in another thread and repeat it for your sake.Kohli is best batsman and does really well against Pakistan .He always does.

 

But if we needs to win the trophies.Otherwise everything is pointless.

 

This isn't a criticism of Kohli.This is the reality.

 

And No I don't hate Kohli.Just because one criticizes a player/captain doesn't mean they hate them.

[BeautifulGame]

Thats fine, everyone has opinion.

 

Just that, the whole point of the thread was that we really need a strong middle order as the moment Kohli falls, we get in trouble  in important tournaments.

 

 

Yes we do need and being Captain it's Kohli's responsibility to build it.

 

He needs tell Dhoni and Yuvi to retire and build a middle order with youngsters.

 

 

[Cricketics]

Just now, BeautifulGame said:

 

Every game is important in ICC tournaments but finals are what most important.

 

It's winning the trophy what matters.Not individual stats ,it isn't a criticism of Kohli either.

 

I already said in another thread and repeat it for your sake.Kohli is best batsman and does really well against Pakistan .He always does.

 

But if we needs to win the trophies.Otherwise everything is pointless.

 

This isn't a criticism of Kohli.This is the reality.

 

And No I don't hate Kohli.Just because one criticizes a player/captain doesn't mean they hate them.

That is fine like I said and my whole point is that we need backups for our number 3, back up as in someone who can play his role if he gets out early. Ideally our no, 4 will settle thingns which Kohli is supposed to do most times, and hence we need a strong middle order. Yuvraj isn't the most consistent and Dhoni isn't even batting at that order after so mich talk about him come up the order.

 

We have to develop Manish Pandey as we have already invested in him.

 

 Give him few more series after he comesback from injury and see how he does.

 

 

[Singh bling]

12 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

That was some Australia-Asia cup not Sharjah.

 

How many Asia cup games do we even remember honestly?

 

It's what the reality is.Not that Ind Pakistan matches don't have pressure , but are ultimately meaningless when in comparison with world cups.

 

The fact that we have to go back to that one isntance in 80s shows the point.

 

But still in Sharjah and just 4 team tournament.And Asia at that time don't have more than 2 good teams The fact is now we have 4 good cricket crazy nations in Asia, so Asia cups will gain popularity if properly organised

 

Also please tell me how stupid group stages matches in world cup are pressure games, where 1 loss don't even slightly hurt your chance of going ahead

[beetle]

We are not a kohli dependent team.More like first three dependent team.

For this tournament I had more faith in Dhawan to do well.

 

[Shunya]

Clearly Kohli had enough support of Dhawan and Rohit at the top. Those 3 made merry hitting around everyone in earlier games which were slightly easier. Finals would always have that extra pressure no matter who you are playing. All 3 of them flopped when we needed them the most. 30/3 in chase of 340 is game over then and there.

Kohli is the best player in our side, but he had enough support from others throughout this tournament. Finals was choke job by everyone.

[rkt.india]

there is a reason people say bat first in a knockout. There is every possibility you might have to chase big and then it is pressure. Kohli was certainly under pressure and is not an ideal #3 in such a situation when you have to tackle a good spell from a fast bowler. Even in that Asia Cup T20 match, he was all at sea against Aamir and was lucky that umpire didn't give him a plumb LBW out.

 

Rohit also struggles against Aamir's inswing but our batsmen have huge egos. Dhawan should have faced Aamir first over instead of Rohit. Such small adjustments can make a hue difference. You need such strategies to counter good bowlers. Aamir is a good bowler whenever he gets inswing and at that pace, it becomes impossible for a right hander to face him but not to left handers.

Edited June 20, 2017 by rkt.india

[NareshK]

Dhawan and Rohit scored more than him and also done well in 2015 World Cup. So we are not depending on him alone. Middle order has to be fixed.

 

I reckon KL Rahul has to come in for Yuvraj. Some people think he is a test batsman but he is actually an aggressive batsman. He has a very good technique against spin and seam which proves why he has done well in tests and can play the attacking game as well. He will be a solid batsman who can build the innings in the middle order. Or else he can open the innings and Rohit can drop down as he still has trouble when there is some movement. 

 

Rishabh Pant can be tried for Dhoni.

[Gollum]

Kohli is terrible in 50 over ICC events, how are we dependent on him? 2015 CWC SF and now this...bloody choker. Please stop these funny Kohli-Smith, Kohli-Viv, Kohli-SRT comparisons. Choker is the word you associate with him, maybe FTB...not ATG.

[CG]

We defend on the trio of Rohit dhawan Kohli and rest are passengers .Yuvi is done and Dhoni is not the same player.We need a consistent middle order batsman Manish pandey has to be tried .

[Temujin Khaghan]

we can bring Lokesh Rahul at no.4

Shreyas iyer at no.5

Rishab pant at no.7

hardik at no.6

[cuttermaster]

India have a soft middle order. We exploited this to win 2-1. 

Paks copied our strategy. 

[sarcastic]

5 hours ago, rkt.india said:

there is a reason people say bat first in a knockout. There is every possibility you might have to chase big and then it is pressure. Kohli was certainly under pressure and is not an ideal #3 in such a situation when you have to tackle a good spell from a fast bowler. Even in that Asia Cup T20 match, he was all at sea against Aamir and was lucky that umpire didn't give him a plumb LBW out.

 

Rohit also struggles against Aamir's inswing but our batsmen have huge egos. Dhawan should have faced Aamir first over instead of Rohit. Such small adjustments can make a hue difference. You need such strategies to counter good bowlers. Aamir is a good bowler whenever he gets inswing and at that pace, it becomes impossible for a right hander to face him but not to left handers.

Top point. I really really wished they made that adjustment. Dhawan could have easily played out a maiden may be even hit a four on the offside if Amir goes amiss. But the thing is, I never understand why they cannot make such subtle and important changes. 

[Tendu_10]

we have failed to develop a lower order. We are too reliant on top 3.

 

Yuvi n MSD are too hit n miss.

 

Jadhav is 32 idk why we havent put youngster in our team.

 

Its shameful with IPL with ranji we havent found a more stable middle order.

 

yuvi n msd need to be booted out. n need to bring in two youngsters.

 

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[Vijy]

On 6/20/2017 at 3:01 AM, rkt.india said:

there is a reason people say bat first in a knockout. There is every possibility you might have to chase big and then it is pressure. Kohli was certainly under pressure and is not an ideal #3 in such a situation when you have to tackle a good spell from a fast bowler. Even in that Asia Cup T20 match, he was all at sea against Aamir and was lucky that umpire didn't give him a plumb LBW out.

 

Rohit also struggles against Aamir's inswing but our batsmen have huge egos. Dhawan should have faced Aamir first over instead of Rohit. Such small adjustments can make a hue difference. You need such strategies to counter good bowlers. Aamir is a good bowler whenever he gets inswing and at that pace, it becomes impossible for a right hander to face him but not to left handers.

Kohli did manage to settle down afterwards (even if he didn't score much off Amir). I fully agree that Dhawan should have faced first. Alternatively, in the future, they should think about rejigging the order since both Rohit and Kohli have some problems against Amir. Not sure how KLR would handle him.

[the don]

Naa not just the crucial games . He is literally carrying this indian team . Indian limited overs side has literally been kohli or bust for a while now.

[Vijy]

On 7/3/2017 at 9:25 AM, the don said:

Naa not just the crucial games . He is literally carrying this indian team . Indian limited overs side has literally been kohli or bust for a while now.

After 2015 WC, our win-loss record against top teams is not impressive at all. We've managed to raise the game for 2017 CT, but the cracks were still there; our wins came against Pak side that made lots of tactical mistakes and didn't show up; Bang-bros whose No.6 flatters them; and Chokafrica.