Bumrah needs to be tried in Test matches

[Vijy]

5 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Format-specific players may sound good in theory but it takes a toll on most players..... they want to play test matches without which they do not get the pedigree.... if they are left out of ODIs they miss the WC and CT.....if they do not play T20s, they not earn money.

 

They want to become stars and no-one can deny them that if they perform. Otherwise, they get frustrated.

There is no mystery in his bowling..... he is not a spinner. Whatever novelty was there in his action is all gone due to IPL and LOis.

test matches involve a lot more bowling with the older ball.

Nathu has not done well in FC, he is not yet ready for tests. He needs to last a full Ranji season first and looks ok for LOIs as of now.

Avesh is not even in his Ranji team

Thakur provides no variety to our current attack....he is a shorter right-armed skiddy bowler like most other Indian pacers. 

 

Taking toll on bowlers can be avoided by rotating them.... like Bumrah has been rested for the WI series.

Not taking him in tests would not help as he would play innumerable Ranji matches which are strenuous.  

He is already playing Ranji with a lot of effort and intensity .... because he wants to play tests.... and is not focusing on the shorter formats exclusively.

Agree with all of these points. Aniket is one other contender I can think of apart from Boomrah.

[express bowling]

Nathu Singh is a big prospect..... but needs to play ODIs first along with a full season of Ranji and a tours.

 

He has fitness issues which has has led to him missing part Ranji seasons and most of the 2 IPLs.

Edited June 28, 2017 by express bowling

[Vijy]

5 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

He looks an all format bowler, chance do kahin bhi do.....atleast we ll know what he is all about at international scene

Bowlers are diff so examples can vary......

NAthu looks like a complete bowler so im up for giving him chances anywere but come overseas tour we need a complete bowler n match winner like him if we have to win their 

He is too raw as express bowling stated. Is not capable yet of handling long-format international cricket. Even in Duleep trophy, he was great 1 inning and poor in the next. Should go on some A tours, etc before making it to the team. In the meantime, Boomrah and Aniket are good backups.

[Vijy]

Just now, express bowling said:

Nathu Singh is big prospect..... but needs to play ODIs first along with a full season of Ranji.

 

He has fitness issues which is has led to missing part Ranji seasons and most of the 2 IPLs.

Also heard somewhere that he has a bad attitude towards training and fitness.

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

Format-specific players may sound good in theory but it takes a toll on most players..... they want to play test matches without which they do not get the pedigree.... if they are left out of ODIs they miss the WC and CT.....if they do not play T20s, they not earn money.

True, its their call if they want to earn respect and i think money will eventually follow 

 

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

There is no mystery in his bowling..... he is not a spinner. Whatever novelty was there in his action is all gone due to IPL and LOis.

His action is unique and still there are teams that has to face him often......also its not something they face every day 

IPL its been 3-4 yrs and he has been regularly in past 2 yrs may be n one yr of international cricket so all have seen him but still i feel he has time that others team will get use to 

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

test matches involve a lot more bowling with the older ball.

Yup, again its a personal opinion ....m still not convinced about his wkt taking ability in long term. Wont be exactly able to explain how why 

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

Nathu has not done well in FC, he is not yet ready for tests. He needs to last a full Ranji season first and looks ok for LOIs as of now.

 

5 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

He looks an all format bowler, chance do kahin bhi do.....atleast we ll know what he is all about at international scene

Bowlers are diff so examples can vary......

NAthu looks like a complete bowler so im up for giving him chances anywere but come overseas tour we need a complete bowler n match winner like him if we have to win their 

That is where The A-tour to SA can help him leaps n bounces , Also what are we getting from playing Ishant again n again 

Nathu cant do worse 

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

Avesh is not even in his Ranji team

Sad..........I knw his chances are almost none 

Had he had a captain like Imran may be 

But his bowling style wud trouble SA big time 

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

Thakur provides no variety to our current attack....he is a shorter right-armed skiddy bowler like most other Indian pacers. 

Since he has earned his place, let see what he does......

Havent been to excited by his bowling either,but i really like his attitude 

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

Taking toll on bowlers can be avoided by rotating them.... like Bumrah has been rested for the WI series.

Yes they cud be, but im not sure wud we actually do that......ideally we shud have rested umesh also this tour but we didnt

Also its about changing ur game acc to format why not stick to few formats n excel in it.......

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

Not taking him in tests would not help as he would play innumerable Ranji matches which are strenuous.  

Ranji matches doesnt have pressure.......bowling under pressure has diff reaction on body 

N he has to keep playing that for staying match fit as well, him playing ranji is imporant as quality in ranji shud be there

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

He is already playing Ranji with a lot of effort and intensity .... because he wants to play tests.... and is not focusing on the shorter formats exclusively.

Good he is.....

But again as i said its my personal opinion that all bowlers shud be given formats and asked to plan their game n fitness acc so they can excel more. 

I knw this wont happen ........

[Vijy]

15 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Nathu Singh is a big prospect..... but needs to play ODIs first along with a full season of Ranji and a tours.

 

He has fitness issues which has has led to him missing part Ranji seasons and most of the 2 IPLs.

Sorry to go on a tangent, but what is the pace at which Nagarkoti bowls? Is it at least 130 kmph now?

[Ankit_sharma03]

11 minutes ago, Vijy said:

Also heard somewhere that he has a bad attitude towards training and fitness.

where have u heard this??

 

13 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Nathu Singh is a big prospect..... but needs to play ODIs first along with a full season of Ranji.

 

He has fitness issues which has has led to him missing part Ranji seasons and most of the 2 IPLs.

Can do that, giving him a chance is important.....atleast if not SA tour he shud be ready by ENG n Aus tour 

But there has to be a plan Regd Avesh n Nathu .........

We are not winning overseas test matches with Ishant , bhuvi regularly. One odd game may be 

 

Aniket n Thakur also IMO wnt be those bowlers that cud world class , may work for time being 

[Ankit_sharma03]

Just now, Vijy said:

Sorry to go on a tangent, but what is the pace at which Nagarkoti bowls? Is it at least 130 kmph now?

Looks quite sharp to me ......wnt be shocked if he is above 135k 

[Vijy]

4 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

where have u heard this??

 

Can do that, giving him a chance is important.....atleast if not SA tour he shud be ready by ENG n Aus tour 

But there has to be a plan Regd Avesh n Nathu .........

We are not winning overseas test matches with Ishant , bhuvi regularly. One odd game may be 

 

Aniket n Thakur also IMO wnt be those bowlers that cud world class , may work for time being 

Don't exactly remember. It was in a news report somewhere. Having long-term plans for these bowlers is important. MUST look beyond Ishant.

[Vijy]

5 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Looks quite sharp to me ......wnt be shocked if he is above 135k 

That would be surprising and unexpected (but great!). Since he's only 17, I was expecting him to be around 125-130.

[express bowling]

10 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

Yup, again its a personal opinion ....m still not convinced about his wkt taking ability in long term. Wont be exactly able to explain how why 

 

 

 

The reason why I want Bumrah in tests is because his type of bowlers ..... hit-the-deck seam bowlers who get consistent seam movement and bounce and are very accurate..... have often been superlative wicket-takers in test matches.  Additionally, he has the pace and has shown wicket-taking ability in FC.

[express bowling]

15 minutes ago, Vijy said:

Sorry to go on a tangent, but what is the pace at which Nagarkoti bowls? Is it at least 130 kmph now?

Nagarkotti looks  about  135 k to 142 k  to me...... very skiddy and hurries batsmen visually.....has a good bouncer.

 

As he is very young, he should get quicker.

 

As domestic speed-guns are not reliable, we won't know exactly till he plays the IPL.

Edited June 28, 2017 by express bowling

[Vijy]

2 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Nagarkotti looks  about  135 k to 142 k  to me...... very skiddy and hurries batsmen visually.....has a good bouncer

If so, that's very impressive. Should be able to hit 142-147 kmph regularly then at 21-22, if development goes well. Are there any videos available of him? Haven't been able to find them.

[express bowling]

Siraj,  Nathu, and Avesh can be great prospects for test matches in the long run.

 

The first 2 have already been shortlisted and Avesh must must must must play Ranji this season.

 

I will be interested in seeing how Khejroliya, Nagarkotti and Thampi do this Ranji season..... along with Siraj, Nathu and Avesh  ofcourse.

 

 

[Vijy]

22 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Siraj,  Nathu, and Avesh can be great prospects for test matches in the long run.

 

The first 2 have already been shortlisted and Avesh must must must must play Ranji this season.

 

I will be interested in seeing how Khejroliya, Nagarkotti and Thampi do this Ranji season..... along with Siraj, Nathu and Avesh  ofcourse.

 

 

I believe Siraj is, at the moment, more comparatively evolved as a long-format bowler. Nathu still has some issues - technical and otherwise - to work out. Avesh is just as raw as Nagarkotti and Khejroliya. I am not very hyped about Basil T, as much as some ICFers are, at least based on what I saw in IPL.

[express bowling]

22 minutes ago, Vijy said:

I believe Siraj is, at the moment, more comparatively evolved as a long-format bowler.

Agree

 

22 minutes ago, Vijy said:

Nathu still has some issues - technical and otherwise - to work out.

Primarily issues related to fitness and intensity over 5 days.  But his potential as a bowler is huge.

 

22 minutes ago, Vijy said:

Avesh is just as raw as Nagarkotti and Khejroliya.

Which is why they need to play full Ranji seasons.....atleast 2 of them.

22 minutes ago, Vijy said:

I am not very hyped about Basil T, as much as some ICFers are, at least based on what I saw in IPL.

Thampi has the twin abilities of getting some balls to skid on and some balls to kick up from short of length.... and that results in wicket-taking bowlers if groomed properly.

 

Shami has similar abilities and so does Siraj and Nathu.

[Vijy]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

Agree

 

Primarily issues related to fitness and intensity over 5 days.  But his potential as a bowler is huge.

 

Which is why they need to play full Ranji seasons.....atleast 2 of them.

Thampi has the twin abilities of getting some balls to skid on and some balls to kick up from short of length.... and that results in wicket-taking bowlers if groomed properly.

 

Shami has similar abilities and so does Siraj and Nathu.

Yes, I agree Shami and Siraj do. Haven't seen enough of Nathu (or Thampi I guess). That's a useful skill to have

[Pollack]

On 24/06/2017 at 4:37 PM, express bowling said:

Logic ?

Buddy,you seem to over rate Bumrah.Bumrah hasn't even adjusted completely to ODI format and want him to be tried in tests? Most of his wickets in ODI are through skills which are used in  death overs like yorkers, slower ones, caught when batsman tries to slog etc. He rarely induces edges,caught behind and LBWs. Even bouncers you talk about has not been used by him effectively. Bowling upfront in ODIs all he does is get an angle into the batsman. That's it. Not sure how effective he is in seaming.In one match where I saw him getting seam movement Pandya out bowled him. Not that he bowled bad. But the point is he not test material at the moment.More than sure he will be Ishant v2 in tests. Contrary to your belief don't think he would be able to run through tail frequently. Most teams have excellent tailenders nowadays and unlike in ODIs they would not try the long handle in tests. Surely he has picked wickets in long format in domestics but so can Ishant at any point of time in his career. But when it comes to international he will be ineffective in picking wickets. 

[express bowling]

7 hours ago, Pollack said:

Buddy,you seem to over rate Bumrah.Bumrah hasn't even adjusted completely to ODI format and want him to be tried in tests? Most of his wickets in ODI are through skills which are used in  death overs like yorkers, slower ones, caught when batsman tries to slog etc. He rarely induces edges,caught behind and LBWs. Even bouncers you talk about has not been used by him effectively. Bowling upfront in ODIs all he does is get an angle into the batsman. That's it. Not sure how effective he is in seaming.In one match where I saw him getting seam movement Pandya out bowled him. Not that he bowled bad. But the point is he not test material at the moment.More than sure he will be Ishant v2 in tests. Contrary to your belief don't think he would be able to run through tail frequently. Most teams have excellent tailenders nowadays and unlike in ODIs they would not try the long handle in tests. Surely he has picked wickets in long format in domestics but so can Ishant at any point of time in his career. But when it comes to international he will be ineffective in picking wickets. 

 

In test matches, wickets are picked regularly by those pacers who ....put a high percentage of deliveries in the good-length, off stump area and punctuate that with surprise bouncers....do this with sufficient pace and bounce.... get small movements, need not be too much movement. His bowling does not need to look spectacular.

 

Bumrah does all this. His combination of accuracy and pace/ bounce is not common among Indian pacers. His seam position is very good too.

 

He is nothing like Ishant who bowls lots of deliveries wide of the off-stump and frequently develops problems with seam position and ball release.

 

Bumrah has not been used that much as an opening bowler in LOIs because he is more of a seam bowler than a swing bowler. In modern day ODIs, pitches are so flat that overs 10 to 20 is the worst period to pick wickets as the ball loses sheen but does not start to reverse yet....this is the period in which Bumrah is usually used in his first spell....this is the reason why most of his LOI wickets are at the end.

 

Obviously, I don't expect any new bowler or player to start performing consistently when introduced in test matches....some teething time has to be given but after that, he has a good probability of success. Also, don't forget that the competition is not that high....he maybe replacing someone who averages 37 after playing 77 tests.

 

The only issue that can make Bumrah ineffective in tests is if he can't sustain intensity and pace throughout the day. We won't know that till he plays tests. And this issue can be rectified with hard work.

Edited July 1, 2017 by express bowling

[express bowling]

37 minutes ago, Shaz1 said:

You seem to see a lot of magic in this guy. Unfortunately his action looks painful on the eye. Suprised he has not hurt his back yet.

I am not looking for magic here. Just a bowler who can be a good addition to our pacer pool in test matches.

 

Beautiful looking bowling actions do not fetch any extra wickets. 

 

As, Wasim was saying in IPL 2016..... Bumrah's body is used to this action from a young age and it would not cause him any extra injuries....and I respect Akram's analysis of pace bowlers.  

 

Can you analyze how his action is putting extra stress on his back  ?