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SK_IH

Can Shastri be snubbed again?

Can Shastri be snubbed again?  

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  1. 1. Can Shastri be snubbed again?



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it was funny what ashwin narrated on what the duck show,shastri came in team huddle and said just smash them,he will bring this to our side 

i was thinking he is good strategist because i heard stories that he was impressive captain ind never had,can older fans tell something about this?

Edited by SK_IH

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5 minutes ago, SK_IH said:

it was funny what ashwin narrated on what the duck show,shastri came in team huddle and said just smash them,he will bring this to our side 

i was thinking he is good strategist because i heard stories that he was impressive captain ind never had,can older fans tell something about this?

I think he captained India in that famous Hirwani 16 wickets vs Wi match. But yes I heard he had a good mind as a captain but clearly the way he batted in the 90s shows us otherwise...I remember a match where Srikanth was on fire scoring a less than a run a ball 50 and Shastri on the other end was at like 10(50) or something and he would take run on the last ball every over.

Edited by maniac

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1 minute ago, maniac said:

I think he captained India in that famous Hirwani 16 wickets vs Wi match. But yes I heard he had a good mind as a captain but clearly the way he batted in the 90s shows us otherwise...I remember a match where Srikanth was on fire scoring a less than a run a ball 50 and Shastri on the other end was at like 10(50) or something and he would take run on the last ball every over.

A match? Most matches they opened together were like that lol

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1 minute ago, maniac said:

I think he captained India in that famous Hirwani 16 wickets vs Wi match. But yes I heard he had a good mind as a captain but clearly the way he batted in the 90s shows us otherwise...I remember a match where Srikanth was on fire scoring a less than a run a ball 50 and Shastri on the other end was at like 10(50) or something and he would take run on the last ball every over.

haha i looked at scorecards of world championship 1985 he batted snails pace even there :hysterical:,this is again coontrasting as we always hear he was a big hitter,six sixes etc

what a contrasting personality

 

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3 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Shastri used to torture and KLPD the crowd a lot, especially in the last 10-12 overs of ODI - he would dance down the track to a spinner in that stupid white helmet of his, and then play a tame forward defense to dead bat the ball into the wicket.  

i admire his confidence,i think he was mediocre player (didnt see him play) but when he talks it as if he was sobers

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5 minutes ago, SK_IH said:

i admire his confidence,i think he was mediocre player (didnt see him play) but when he talks it as if he was sobers

He was a limited player who punched above his weight.  I respect his achievements.   Decent cricket brain also.   Lot of of insiders rate him as a guy who could have been one of India's great captains.   We are dangerously close to putting him in the Kapil Dev bucket as coach - the guy whose entire planning for an away tour to Australia boiled down to - "Enjoy boys! Do your best!".   

 

Problem with Shastri is that he's too used to being the boss, "Team Director" not coach - too happy to be liked by the players, to really do an honest job as a coach.   He simply can't be expected to push the team or VK in a direction they won't want.   

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1 minute ago, sandeep said:

He was a limited player who punched above his weight.  I respect his achievements.   Decent cricket brain also.   Lot of of insiders rate him as a guy who could have been one of India's great captains.   We are dangerously close to putting him in the Kapil Dev bucket as coach - the guy whose entire planning for an away tour to Australia boiled down to - "Enjoy boys! Do your best!".   

 

Problem with Shastri is that he's too used to being the boss, "Team Director" not coach - too happy to be liked by the players, to really do an honest job as a coach.   He simply can't be expected to push the team or VK in a direction they won't want.   

More than Shastri I am concerned about Virat. Right now he can't put a foot wrong and things are going great but once things start going south with so much power at such a young age and with a yes man at helm, I am not sure how it will work out.

 

 

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1 minute ago, sandeep said:

He was a limited player who punched above his weight.  I respect his achievements.   Decent cricket brain also.   Lot of of insiders rate him as a guy who could have been one of India's great captains.   We are dangerously close to putting him in the Kapil Dev bucket as coach - the guy whose entire planning for an away tour to Australia boiled down to - "Enjoy boys! Do your best!".   

 

Problem with Shastri is that he's too used to being the boss, "Team Director" not coach - too happy to be liked by the players, to really do an honest job as a coach.   He simply can't be expected to push the team or VK in a direction they won't want.   

yes i heard lots of stories about that as well,if that true he must a shrewd strategist as well but we havent seen yet

 

didnt know about kapil dev's motivational words before aus tour :hysterical:

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Just now, SK_IH said:

yes i heard lots of stories about that as well,if that true he must a shrewd strategist as well but we havent seen yet

 

didnt know about kapil dev's motivational words before aus tour :hysterical:

Before?? This was before and during.   Kapil is a classic example of the aphorism that the best players don't make good coaches. 

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Well the only captaincy game he won was because of Hirwani bowling on a dustbowl and from what I heard WI trying to hit him out of the stadium every ball he bowled almost playing like the brainless hacks they are today.... don't think there was any master plan there but yes I heard he has a solid mind too but from his batting and even from his commentary didn't see any golden words of wisdom 

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Just now, sandeep said:

Before?? This was before and during.   Kapil is a classic example of the aphorism that the best players don't make good coaches. 

i agree with you 

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5 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Before?? This was before and during.   Kapil is a classic example of the aphorism that the best players don't make good coaches. 

I didn't know this till I saw one of those debates on the whole Kohli Kumble fiasco...I think Ayaz Memon said this and I would take his word for it that Sachin Kumble Dravid Sourav united against a  Kapil to throw him

out when he was the coach.so Chappell and Kumble deal is not a new instance here.

Edited by maniac

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2 minutes ago, maniac said:

I didn't know this till I saw one of those debates on the whole Kohli Kumble fiasco...I think Ayaz Memon said this and I would take his word for it that Sachin Kumble Dravid Sourav united against a  Kapil to throw him

out when he was the coach.so Chappell and Kumble deal is not a new instance here.

One of the things I don't like about Tendy is that he goes way out of his way to avoid controversies and is too careful about what he says.  But even he went public with his disappointment over Kapil's 'coaching'.    

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3 minutes ago, maniac said:

I didn't know this till I saw one of those debates on the whole Kohli Kumble fiasco...I think Ayaz Memon said this and I would take his word for it that Sachin Kumble Dravid Sourav united against a coach to get Kapil out...so Chappell and Kumble deal is not a new instance here.

but didnt kapil resign because of match fixing allegations 

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Shastri was frustratingly pathetic in ODIs for most of his career. The '87 WC semi final was such a head smashing on the wall experience. Yes, Kapil is rightly criticized for his stroke in the match, but even after his departure Azhar played brilliantly and when he was dismissed India needed around 50 runs in the last 10 overs with four wickets in hand and a set Shastri at the crease. That was a very achievable target even in those days of ODIs and the Indian team batted really deep as well with More, Prabhakar, and Chetan Sharma at 8, 9, and 10. What followed was Shastri stepping out of the crease and just pottering around. He looked clueless in terms of rotating the strike or striking the boundaries till he played an ugly hoick to get out as the last batsman. In fact his innings gave rise to this whole theory of the Bombay lobby deliberately throwing the match away to undermine Kapil with Vengsarkar pulling out at the last minute with an upset stomach, Gavaskar getting bowled through the gate, and Shastri doing his inexplicable tuk tuk. 

 

Having said that, he was a pretty good test player. He played quite a few decent innings in the lower middle order, but it was as an opener that he did really well averaging 40+. He was never given a chance to open in India, and opened almost exclusively outside India and did really well. In tests, one of his best batting performance where he used his brain was in the tied test. He batted really well with the tail in the match and was the only person who kept his calm while others like Chetan Sharma and Shiv Lal Yadav were committing suicide. He showed good presence of mind to take a single to equal the scores making sure India can't lose the match. Quite funny thinking about the match where he was literally pleading the tail to show some sense and take singles and they were playing one hoick after another.

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55 minutes ago, SK_IH said:

i admire his confidence,i think he was mediocre player (didnt see him play) but when he talks it as if he was sobers

I think he started as a spinner batting at 11 IIRC . 

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5 minutes ago, The Outsider said:

Shastri was frustratingly pathetic in ODIs for most of his career. The '87 WC semi final was such a head smashing on the wall experience. Yes, Kapil is rightly criticized for his stroke in the match, but even after his departure Azhar played brilliantly and when he was dismissed India needed around 50 runs in the last 10 overs with four wickets in hand and a set Shastri at the crease. That was a very achievable target even in those days of ODIs and the Indian team batted really deep as well with More, Prabhakar, and Chetan Sharma at 8, 9, and 10. What followed was Shastri stepping out of the crease and just pottering around. He looked clueless in terms of rotating the strike or striking the boundaries till he played an ugly hoick to get out as the last batsman. In fact his innings gave rise to this whole theory of the Bombay lobby deliberately throwing the match away to undermine Kapil with Vengsarkar pulling out at the last minute with an upset stomach, Gavaskar getting bowled through the gate, and Shastri doing his inexplicable tuk tuk. 

 

Having said that, he was a pretty good test player. He played quite a few decent innings in the lower middle order, but it was as an opener that he did really well averaging 40+. He was never given a chance to open in India, and opened almost exclusively outside India and did really well. In tests, one of his best batting performance where he used his brain was in the tied test. He batted really well with the tail in the match and was the only person who kept his calm while others like Chetan Sharma and Shiv Lal Yadav were committing suicide. He showed good presence of mind to take a single to equal the scores making sure India can't lose the match. Quite funny thinking about the match where he was literally pleading the tail to show some sense and take singles and they were playing one hoick after another.

thanks for this post,very informative but again it shows there are no examples him being great captain we never had

 

i really enjoyed this tied test match documentary,following that match would have been awesome

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16 minutes ago, SK_IH said:

great improvement then from no 11 to opening in tests

His batting improved quite a lot, but his "bowling" was always pathetic in Tests.

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15 minutes ago, SK_IH said:

thanks for this post,very informative but again it shows there are no examples him being great captain we never had

 

i really enjoyed this tied test match documentary,following that match would have been awesome

Yeah, nothing concrete to support it except anecdotal evidence. Unlike Warne (for whom a similar thing is said in the context of Australia), Shastri didn't really captain the Bombay Ranji team regularly either. In his favor, at least in tests, he used to play the game according to the situation like not throwing it away before breaks or being able to accelerate when the situation demanded. But that would largely be because he was from the Bombay school of batting and not necessarily related to any tactical genius on his part. He certainly could/should have played tests for a few more years but in those days tests and ODI sides were pretty much the same and his ODI game had really gone down the drain when he was dropped. It was a torture to watch him bat in the '92 WC and he was responsible for the losses against Australia and England by batting like a snail before he was dropped for the rest of the tournament. 

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6 minutes ago, The Outsider said:

Yeah, nothing concrete to support it except anecdotal evidence. Unlike Warne (for whom a similar thing is said in the context of Australia), Shastri didn't really captain the Bombay Ranji team regularly either. In his favor, at least in tests, he used to play the game according to the situation like not throwing it away before breaks or being able to accelerate when the situation demanded. But that would largely be because he was from the Bombay school of batting and not necessarily related to any tactical genius on his part. He certainly could/should have played tests for a few more years but in those days tests and ODI sides were pretty much the same and his ODI game had really gone down the drain when he was dropped. It was a torture to watch him bat in the '92 WC and he was responsible for the losses against Australia and England by batting like a snail before he was dropped for the rest of the tournament. 

This was mostly how Shastri batted in general.

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8 minutes ago, The Outsider said:

Yeah, nothing concrete to support it except anecdotal evidence. Unlike Warne (for whom a similar thing is said in the context of Australia), Shastri didn't really captain the Bombay Ranji team regularly either. In his favor, at least in tests, he used to play the game according to the situation like not throwing it away before breaks or being able to accelerate when the situation demanded. But that would largely be because he was from the Bombay school of batting and not necessarily related to any tactical genius on his part. He certainly could/should have played tests for a few more years but in those days tests and ODI sides were pretty much the same and his ODI game had really gone down the drain when he was dropped. It was a torture to watch him bat in the '92 WC and he was responsible for the losses against Australia and England by batting like a snail before he was dropped for the rest of the tournament. 

i think i am getting more n more convinced him being a great captain must have started because the way he is generally ,very positive and in your face ,people might have confused that with captaincy

more i see kohli more i think kohli is pretty much same that why the mutual liking

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If Tendulkar is backing him so strongly,it is unlikely he will be snubbed again unless he skypes his interview again with a bear mug in hand wearing a tutu shirt and coconuts on his chest.

 

Tendulkar supported him last time too but dada and vvs voted for kumble...and that experiment failed badly.

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9 minutes ago, Vijy said:

This was mostly how Shastri batted in general.

As an opener in ODIs, yes. Which was okay if there was a Srikkanth at the other end. But Srikkanth himself was finished by the time of the '92 WC so Shastri's innings started to hurt even more. He was decent in the lower middle order positions in general, nothing like Kapil obviously, but would score at a fair clip for those time. 

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11 minutes ago, The Outsider said:

As an opener in ODIs, yes. Which was okay if there was a Srikkanth at the other end. But Srikkanth himself was finished by the time of the '92 WC so Shastri's innings started to hurt even more. He was decent in the lower middle order positions in general, nothing like Kapil obviously, but would score at a fair clip for those time. 

I remember him charging down to Donald and co without much result ,in his last series in 92 :laugh: ...This was on indias tour to SA when he was playing in the middle-lower middle order.... didn't do too well but looked like he changed his game but by then it was too late...it all ended.

Edited by maniac

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37 minutes ago, The Outsider said:

it was a torture to watch him bat in the '92 WC and he was responsible for the losses against Australia and England by batting like a snail before he was dropped for the rest of the tournament. 

 

Shiv Chanderpaul has said that "Ravi Shastri is my hero". 

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33 minutes ago, Sloane84 said:

 

Shiv Chanderpaul has said that "Ravi Shastri is my hero". 

I wonder where he said that. Chanders was obviously much more versatile than Shastri.

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35 minutes ago, maniac said:

I remember him charging down to Donald and co without much result ,in his last series in 92 :laugh: ...This was on indias tour to SA when he was playing in the middle-lower middle order.... didn't do too well but looked like he changed his game but by then it was too late...it all ended.

He also had a large fan following among girls because he was one of the first Indian cricketers to put in dives on the field. It's another matter he used to dive after the ball was already past him.:facepalm:

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1 hour ago, beetle said:

If Tendulkar is backing him so strongly,it is unlikely he will be snubbed again unless he skypes his interview again with a bear mug in hand wearing a tutu shirt and coconuts on his chest.

 

Tendulkar supported him last time too but dada and vvs voted for kumble...and that experiment failed badly.

ok that was brutal, a mental image that i can not forget.

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