Jump to content

FAO : Tendulkar rubbishers

The Outsider

By The Outsider
in Cricket Talk

Recommended Posts

The Outsider Newbie

The Outsider

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Here is Tendulkar in the 2nd innings against Australia. It was probably some screw ball commentator who has started this canard on TV which has caught up. He averages 34 against them in the 2nd innings : 

Career averages      
         Span   Mat   Inns   NO   Runs   HS   Ave   BF   SR   100   50   0   4s   6s   
unfiltered   1989-2008   145   235   25   11616   248*   55.31   21528+   53.90*   38   49   13   1537+   44   [URL="http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/content/player/35320.html"]Profile[/URL]   
filtered   1991-2008   22   21   2   641   155*   33.73   1096   58.48   1   4   2   75   5

Link to comment
Anakin Newbie

Anakin

Posted
Posted
As I've pointed it out to you before, that stat is false. He averages 26 in the 2nd innings not 16. Bullsh*t. I am yet to see a fan who wishes injury to their country's premier bat just after he's scored 150+. Some 'higher expectation' indeed. Just admit it. It burns you to see Sachin and Sourav do well. 92 v England, Notts. 176 v WI, Eden. 55 v Aus, Mumbai. 52 v Pak, Eden. 56* v Pak, Delhi. Sometimes I don't even know why I bother.
Don't. It's a complete waste of time.
Link to comment
Bumper Newbie

Bumper

Posted
Posted

Alright, this has descended from gentle jibes, to some ludicrous cheap shots (spanning diff threads). Unlike what many of u think, i have got nothing against Tendulkar. My only beef with him was his non-performance over a two year period without his place ever in question. IMO, no player deserves unconditional backing over that long a period, without ever being dropped (to rekindle their hunger & drive). U guys cant take it because he is your fav player ? Could it get more hypocritical than this ? Werent many of you guys harping on Ganguly when he was going thru a lean patch ? IIRC, Shwetabh was the most vocal of the Ganguly rubbishers and even backed the legendary Kaiphu over Ganguly (whom i backed for the SA series) & was vehemently against Veeru's inclusion just couple of months ago. I find it phunny, that he is the first to take the mickey out of Veeru's rubbishers.:D I was all for Tendulkar until the SA series & the world cup. The humiliation at Cape Town (amplified by our Karachi & Mumbai humiliations earlier that year) & the ensuing world cup was my breaking point. He surely deserved to be dropped for that. No matter how talented a player is, unless he has the drive to perform, he will slack off. Thats what happened to Sachin. Incidentally, Ganguly & Zaheer had to be dropped to jolt them out of their comfort zones. See how they perform in their new avtaars ? Our entire cricket system is hypocritical. One rule for certain individuals & totally another for others. For christ's sake, treat Sachin like any other player. Thats what he is, he is a top Indian batsman (just like Dravid, Ganguly or Laxman). Treat him just the way you treat anyone else. If you choose to worship him, thats your choice. I wont join the herd. If he performs, I'll admire him, if he doesnt, I'll criticize him. Thats the way i follow my cricket.:D

Link to comment
Sachinism Newbie

Sachinism

Posted
Posted
As I've pointed it out to you before, that stat is false. He averages 26 in the 2nd innings not 16. Bullsh*t. I am yet to see a fan who wishes injury to their country's premier bat just after he's scored 150+. Some 'higher expectation' indeed. Just admit it. It burns you to see Sachin and Sourav do well. 92 v England, Notts. 176 v WI, Eden. 55 v Aus, Mumbai. 52 v Pak, Eden. 56* v Pak, Delhi. Sometimes I don't even know why I bother.
dont know whats wrong with these people they seem to hate the guy that has carried the team they support for numerous years for years india have been called a one man team and these guys still cant appreciate everything he's done
Link to comment
Sachinism Newbie

Sachinism

Posted
Posted
Alright, this has descended from gentle jibes, to some ludicrous cheap shots (spanning diff threads). Unlike what many of u think, i have got nothing against Tendulkar. My only beef with him was his non-performance over a two year period without his place ever in question. IMO, no player deserves unconditional backing over that long a period, without ever being dropped (to rekindle their hunger & drive). U guys cant take it because he is your fav player ? Could it get more hypocritical than this ? Werent many of you guys harping on Ganguly when he was going thru a lean patch ? IIRC, Shwetabh was the most vocal of the Ganguly rubbishers and even backed the legendary Kaiphu over Ganguly (whom i backed for the SA series) & was vehemently against Veeru's inclusion just couple of months ago. I find it phunny, that he is the first to take the mickey out of Veeru's rubbishers.:D I was all for Tendulkar until the SA series & the world cup. The humiliation at Cape Town (amplified by our Karachi & Mumbai humiliations earlier that year) & the ensuing world cup was my breaking point. He surely deserved to be dropped for that. No matter how talented a player is, unless he has the drive to perform, he will slack off. Thats what happened to Sachin. Incidentally, Ganguly & Zaheer had to be dropped to jolt them out of their comfort zones. See how they perform in their new avtaars ? Our entire cricket system is hypocritical. One rule for certain individuals & totally another for others. For christ's sake, treat Sachin like any other player. Thats what he is, he is a top Indian batsman (just like Dravid, Ganguly or Laxman). Treat him just the way you treat anyone else. If you choose to worship him, thats your choice. I wont join the herd. If he performs, I'll admire him, if he doesnt, I'll criticize him. Thats the way i follow my cricket.:D
i never hated on ganguly, i remember on DT (where a lot of ICF's members used to be) i was one of the very few supporting him, yeh he had to be dropped coz he wasnt scoring, but i knew he'd be back i agree i said sehwag doesnt deserve a spot. doesnt mean i wouldnt like him to be in the team, his performances at the domestic level werent just good enough and he himself has admitted to it but i find it ridiculous at people constantly putting sachin down even when he is scoring runs you people expect a 150 runs from him every game and arent satisfied by anything else
Link to comment
living Newbie

living

Posted
Posted
Alright, this has descended from gentle jibes, to some ludicrous cheap shots (spanning diff threads). Unlike what many of u think, i have got nothing against Tendulkar. My only beef with him was his non-performance over a two year period without his place ever in question. IMO, no player deserves unconditional backing over that long a period, without ever being dropped (to rekindle their hunger & drive). U guys cant take it because he is your fav player ? Could it get more hypocritical than this ? Werent many of you guys harping on Ganguly when he was going thru a lean patch ? IIRC, Shwetabh was the most vocal of the Ganguly rubbishers and even backed the legendary Kaiphu over Ganguly (whom i backed for the SA series) & was vehemently against Veeru's inclusion just couple of months ago. I find it phunny, that he is the first to take the mickey out of Veeru's rubbishers.:D I was all for Tendulkar until the SA series & the world cup. The humiliation at Cape Town (amplified by our Karachi & Mumbai humiliations earlier that year) & the ensuing world cup was my breaking point. He surely deserved to be dropped for that. No matter how talented a player is, unless he has the drive to perform, he will slack off. Thats what happened to Sachin. Incidentally, Ganguly & Zaheer had to be dropped to jolt them out of their comfort zones. See how they perform in their new avtaars ? Our entire cricket system is hypocritical. One rule for certain individuals & totally another for others. For christ's sake, treat Sachin like any other player. Thats what he is, he is a top Indian batsman (just like Dravid, Ganguly or Laxman). Treat him just the way you treat anyone else. If you choose to worship him, thats your choice. I wont join the herd. If he performs, I'll admire him, if he doesnt, I'll criticize him. Thats the way i follow my cricket.:D
SRT was the only one who looked like he could play more than 10 balls during the ODI series in SA. There is no way you can compare dada's lean patch to that of SRT's. There is a qualitative factor as well, not just the quantitative breakdown of average. Dada was regularly getting out in 2-3 deliveries, getting bowled very often and was definitely not looking comfortable at the crease. Whereas SRT has always looked like he can/will produce a big innings anytime soon. Thats why he was persisted with. Simple as that.
Link to comment
The Outsider Newbie

The Outsider

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Alright, this has descended from gentle jibes, to some ludicrous cheap shots (spanning diff threads). Unlike what many of u think, i have got nothing against Tendulkar. My only beef with him was his non-performance over a two year period without his place ever in question. IMO, no player deserves unconditional backing over that long a period, without ever being dropped (to rekindle their hunger & drive).
It's nothing personal and it's not only you. There are many the likes of fineleg who have wished injury on him, CC who went on to say Kumble was a better batsman in England, Lurker quoting some random numbers out of context.
U guys cant take it because he is your fav player ? Could it get more hypocritical than this ? Werent many of you guys harping on Ganguly when he was going thru a lean patch ? IIRC, Shwetabh was the most vocal of the Ganguly rubbishers and even backed the legendary Kaiphu over Ganguly (whom i backed for the SA series) & was vehemently against Veeru's inclusion just couple of months ago. I find it phunny, that he is the first to take the mickey out of Veeru's rubbishers.:D
I was wrong on Ganguly and have openly admitted it on numerous occasions. Never thought he'll be able to come back and to his credit he did. Regarding, Sehwag it was only for a break and I have always backed him as the long term prospect going to the extent of saying and maintaining that even if India opens with someone else he should be the first middle order back up ahead of Yuseless.
I was all for Tendulkar until the SA series & the world cup. The humiliation at Cape Town (amplified by our Karachi & Mumbai humiliations earlier that year) & the ensuing world cup was my breaking point. He surely deserved to be dropped for that. No matter how talented a player is, unless he has the drive to perform, he will slack off. Thats what happened to Sachin. Incidentally, Ganguly & Zaheer had to be dropped to jolt them out of their comfort zones. See how they perform in their new avtaars ?
Tendulkar was injured in the Cape Town test, scored a half century in the first innings and was our second highest scorer in the series. Quoting averages out of context of a low scoring series was devoid of any logic.
Our entire cricket system is hypocritical. One rule for certain individuals & totally another for others. For christ's sake, treat Sachin like any other player. Thats what he is, he is a top Indian batsman (just like Dravid, Ganguly or Laxman). Treat him just the way you treat anyone else. If you choose to worship him, thats your choice. I wont join the herd. If he performs, I'll admire him, if he doesnt, I'll criticize him. Thats the way i follow my cricket.:D
Our cricket system is not hypocritical. Tendulkar as a batsman obviously deserves a longer rope than Ganguly and Laxman and maybe even Dravid for all that he has done. Both of them were given long ropes and now they are delivering. And no Tendulkar should be treated like any other player. When the likes of Yuseless have 10000+ runs to back them up then they can be treated at par with Tendulkar.
Link to comment
fineleg Rookie

fineleg

Posted
Posted

Shwetabh, This 'injury' thing u keep harping on, I've written a thread abt it after the fact when I took it back. Well, some like you may never accept that even if it is written when being angry on a message board for heavensake. Anyway no more comments on that, since that has been explained, most folks have moved on from that incident. But some like Salil, you and Anakin, and danra will keep harping on that one post that I made. Ok, you refuse to accept the apology, keep stuck to it. (or maybe u did not read the thread I wrote after that). Suit yourself on that 'injury' bit. Secondly, I can't say any better than Bumper has said. That is well written. I agree with the below: "Treat him just the way you treat anyone else. If you choose to worship him, thats your choice. I wont join the herd. :thumbs_up: If he performs, I'll admire him, if he doesnt, I'll criticize him. Thats the way i follow my cricket"

Link to comment
Bumper Newbie

Bumper

Posted
Posted
It's nothing personal and it's not only you. There are many the likes of fineleg who have wished injury on him, CC who went on to say Kumble was a better batsman in England, Lurker quoting some random numbers out of context.
Comeon Shwetabh, i know you long enough, to be riled up by such jibes. My post was not directed at you, but the general majority on the board. Apologies if it came across that way.
I was wrong on Ganguly and have openly admitted it on numerous occasions. Never thought he'll be able to come back and to his credit he did. Regarding, Sehwag it was only for a break and I have always backed him as the long term prospect going to the extent of saying and maintaining that even if India opens with someone else he should be the first middle order back up ahead of Yuseless.
No you werent wrong. You were objective then. You criticized a player based on his performance (ignoring his reputation). I doubt if dada would have EVER come back with such performances, had he been allowed to continue with his stint as captain, unquestioned. The problem with him back then, was that he had slipped into his comfort zone & refused to work on his weaknesses. The time off from cricket, helped him regain his focus immensely. It happens to evenb the very best in the business. Even Lara needed a break to find his magic again! And incase people wonder, why i backed Sehwag during his non performing years, I first of all never believed Veeru was out of form for extended periods of time.He had a string of mediocre scores & lost his confidence. He never deserved to be dropped in the first place.
Tendulkar was injured in the Cape Town test, scored a half century in the first innings and was our second highest scorer in the series. Quoting averages out of context of a low scoring series was devoid of any logic.
A two year streak is by no means out of context. Had it been any other name (Laxman, Ganguly, Sehwag) they'd have been dropped. Dropping does not mean, u discard him permanently. You are making a statement to that player that he is not indispensible. Tell me a profession where poor performances go unnoticed for extended periods of time ? Remember SUN's CEO & Co founder Scott McNealy ? The guy built SUN the company with his buddies at Stanford. He led SUN thru the booms and recessions for over a decade. Yet, when SUN was reporting one loss after the other, he had to go. Same is true with Terry Semel of Yahoo. Thats how the world treats the pros. Cricket, IMO is no different.
Our cricket system is not hypocritical. Tendulkar as a batsman obviously deserves a longer rope than Ganguly and Laxman and maybe even Dravid for all that he has done. Both of them were given long ropes and now they are delivering. And no Tendulkar should be treated like any other player. When the likes of Yuseless have 10000+ runs to back them up then they can be treated at par with Tendulkar.
No one questioned his talent. You dont break all those records without any talent. But where was his drive or passion to perform ? I didnt see that for close to 2 years. Infact, until the world cup, when the senior pros were booted out of their comfort zone, our cricket was spiralling downwards. Its no coincidence that our fortunes took a U-turn, after the criticisms that the players copped (post world cup) and the speculation on their motives & integrity (playing for contracts, money etc). Sometimes u need a bit of that to make them angry. See how pissed Ganguly & Tendulkar were on being dropped for the Ind-BD ODI series ? And see how Tendulkar lifted his game, in the series vs SA & Eng ? For his reputation SRT did get the rope he got. But what about the games lost in that time ? We can make up for some, but not for others. Will we ever get another opportunity to win a test series in SA ? I was absolutely gutted at our Cape town loss, will never excuse Dravid or Tendulkar for that. It was one of my lowest cricketing moments as an Indian fan (after that loss vs Pak in Bangalore'05). Unfortunately because of politics and lack of star power, Veeru paid the price.
Link to comment
The Outsider Newbie

The Outsider

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Comeon Shwetabh, i know you long enough, to be riled up by such jibes. My post was not directed at you, but the general majority on the board. Apologies if it came across that way.
Arre, no need for apology shapology. This is all part of MB fun. People say things, some get proved wrong, some threads are bumped up, some people take the mickey. Has happened to me in the past and I know that you much more thick skinned than to be affected by any of this.
No you werent wrong. You were objective then. You analysed a player's performance (ignoring his reputation). I doubt if dada would have EVER come back with such performances, had been allowed his stint as captain unquestioned. The problem with him back then, was that he was slipped into comfort zone & refused to work on his weaknesses. The time off from cricket, helped him regain his focus immensely. It happens to evenb the very best in the business. Even Lara needed a break to find his magic again!
True. Just looking at his domestic form it was difficult to think he would ever be able to come back strongly. And the enforced break worked for him as it hopefully has done for Sehwag.With Ganguly, I never considered him a batsman in the same class as any of the others in the Indian side but with Sehwag, I think he is a really good batsman and just needed a break to get back his focus.
A two year streak is by no means out of context. Had it been any other name (Laxman, Ganguly, Sehwag) they'd have been dropped. Dropping does not mean, u discard him permanently. You are making a statement to that player that he is not indispensible. Tell me a profession where poor performances go unnoticed for extended periods of time ? Remember SUN's CEO & Co founder Scott McNealy ? The guy built SUN the company with his buddies at Stanford. He led SUN thru the booms and recessions for over a decade. Yet, when SUN was reporting one loss after the other, he had to go. Same is true with Terry Semel of Yahoo. Thats how the world treats the pros. Cricket, IMO is no different.
We've been through this multiple times. Tendulkar failed in two series - Pakistan and England, went out with injury and returned from injury during the South Africa series where he turned out to be the second highest run scorer. And yes, others might have been dropped but they don't have Tendulkar's pedigree and runs to back them up. Sure there has to be accountability in any profession but the stronger your past work has been the longer your rope is going to be. So the argument that all should be treated equally does not hold merit, neither in Tendulkar's case nor in any other profession.
For his reputation SRT did get the rope he got. But what about the games lost in that time ? We can make up for some, but not for others. Will we ever get another opportunity to win a test series in SA ? I was absolutely gutted at our Cape town loss, will never excuse Dravid or Tendulkar. It was one of my lowest cricketing moments as an Indian fan (after that loss vs Pak in Bangalore'05). Unfortunately because of politics and lack of star power, Veeru paid the price.
Sehwag and Tendulkar are not even competing for the same spot, so don't know how you are saying Sehwag paid the price. Again, at Cape Town it was a terrible loss but do you drop someone of Tendulkar's ability for the odd poor performance in a series where he was the second highest scorer. Not to mention the fact that he was carrying a back injury during that innings.
Link to comment
The Outsider Newbie

The Outsider

Posted
  • Author
Posted

What irked me was not genuine criticism of innings like Cape Town but trying to put some kind of spin on good performances as well. Even after the England series where he was instrumental in our win, there were people quoting his average in the 30s in England completely ignoring that two of the innings in which he failed were utterly meaningless. Or not realizing that the South Africa and England series were pretty low scoring affairs. Or putting a spin on his last innings 50 odd at Kotla by saying the last 32 runs were made with no pressure. It was stuff like this in which I could not find any reasoning.

Link to comment
Bumper Newbie

Bumper

Posted
Posted
What irked me was not genuine criticism of innings like Cape Town but trying to put some kind of spin on good performances as well. Even after the England series where he was instrumental in our win' date=' there were people quoting his average in the 30s in England completely ignoring that two of the innings in which he failed were utterly meaningless. Or not realizing that the South Africa and England series were pretty low scoring affairs. Or putting a spin on his last innings 50 odd at Kotla by saying the last 32 runs were made with no pressure. It was stuff like this in which I could not find any reasoning.[/quote'] But you gotta take all that with the eulogy threads. In the Kotla game, there were atleast 5 good performances (Dravid's, Ganguly's 2nd inngs efforts, Jaffar's 50, Dhoni's, Laxman's efforts in the 1st inns, Kumble's wickets etc). Yet there was not a single thread on any of them. Here we have 4 folks starting threads on a Sachin's 50 ? U gotta be kidding, if u dont think it was an OTT celebration. I agree i have done my bit to rile up Tendulkar fans, sometimes purposefully for some MB fun. :D But when he does perform well like he did at Sydney, u would never seen me put his performances down. Infact surprising it may seem to you, I even defended Sachin's batting with the tail at Sydney when people were harping on it & I also consider his 71 at Perth one of the 5 key performances in our win (Darvid's 93, Sachin's 71, Laxman's 79, Pathan's, RPS's & Kumble's wickets). This series was the real deal. He has convinced me that still has the ability & drive to perform against quality attacks. And i dont agree with the injury excuse at Cape town (that everyone is using). If he was injured why did he walk ahead of KKD & Laxman to bat at 4 ? Why did he not communicate that to the team mgmt ? The outcome of all this is a series that was in the bag, was frittered away. I will squarely blame Dravid & Tendulkar for that!
Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...