Malcolm Merlyn Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 @lannister Hindi is the most widely spoken and understood language in India.What is wrong in putting up signs in that language?Why do you put up signs in english? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sourab10forever Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 46 minutes ago, Malcolm Merlyn said: @lannister Who asked anyone to learn hindi?Millions of hindi speakers visit southern states so if a sign board includes Hindi in addition to English and local language how is it asking locals to learn hindi? India has only one official flag.The tricolor.Should each state have separate flag anthem constitution?How and where will you place the state flag in respect to national flag?This is how you sow seeds of separatism. Karnataka has a state flag and a state song ever since 1970's. It isn't something new. It is placed very high but not above the national anthem or even par with it. Every single official occasion starts with the national anthem followed by the naada geete(state song). What is the problem with it? Seperatism lol... And do you expect to see Indian languages when you go to say Dubai or Singapore? Even though quite a few Indians stay/visit there. Similarly don't expect to see Hindi in Karnataka where 95% people don't know how to read Hindi. It was okay if Hindi was the national language. But it isn't. It is just another language. That way you could argue for all the 18 languages to be included. Why should there be Hindi imposition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) Part 1:There are 22 official languages Part 2: Only Hindi and Eng are official languages for union govt. To communicate with union govt, among central agencies, b/w states and internationally Hindi, Eng or both should be used Edited July 19, 2017 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sourab10forever Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 20 minutes ago, Malcolm Merlyn said: @sourab10forever Hindi is used along with bengali and english on sign boards of Bengal.While we love our culture we dont fret on adjusting a bit for non bengali non english speakers. So you can give english same status as kannada but not hindi? Is this hindi hatred or colonial mindset? No. Most people in Karnataka understand English. That is why it is up there. Most people don't understand Hindi. That's why it shouldn't be up there. As simple as that. Vilander 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surajmal Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 lol. ban hindi? half the IT industry will move out next day. Its okay. Gurgaon/Noida are waiting with bated breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lannister Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 10 minutes ago, Malcolm Merlyn said: @lannister Hindi is the most widely spoken and understood language in India.What is wrong in putting up signs in that language?Why do you put up signs in english? Because English is the widely understood language in southern parts of India. Our whole education is based on English. This whole argument is just silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lannister Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 1 minute ago, surajmal said: lol. ban hindi? half the IT industry will move out next day. Its okay. Gurgaon/Noida are waiting with bated breath. I have not seen the people working in IT industries conversing in Hindi, at least in Bangalore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rageaddict Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) 34 minutes ago, sourab10forever said: Imposition. That is the word. No body is imposing on him to listen to Hindi songs. He is doing it on his own will. What is happening here is imposition of Hindi..which isn't right. Your language is already getting the first preference in the state and that should settle the debate. It would be Hindi Imposition if Kannada was being replaced by Hindi . How do you justify the inclusion of English? Is Kannada on signboards at the London Metro and hence you are doing the favor in return? So, you want preference for your own language which has been provided. English too, okay that has been provided too. ( Even though the locals should be content with Kannada alone) But no space for Hindi. For a language that is spoken / understood by vast majority of the country. Sorry but it's not going to work like this. Karntataka is a part of India, not a separate Nation which will run only according to wishes of narrow minded and insecure locals. Edited July 19, 2017 by rageaddict Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surajmal Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 1 minute ago, Lannister said: I have not seen the people working in IT industries conversing in Hindi, at least in Bangalore. Right. one data point. Must be the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) To all north Indians and people who can't get what this agitation is about read this.. https://nudihani.wordpress.com/2017/06/30/hindi-imposition/ Quote The imposition of Hindi by the centre on the non-Hindi-speaking regions of India has always been a subject of discussion. It has recently been triggered by the extensive usage of Hindi on the Bangalore Metro. Multiple claims and arguments have been made for and against the cause. Here is a logical and balanced take on the issue. This was originally a post on Facebook by Mr. Sharath Bhat Seraje which I have translated to English with his permission. There were and are hundreds of people who have voiced their opinions for and against Hindi imposition, and yet lot of misconceptions have remained. As the Kannada poet Da.Ra.Bendre said “a hundred trees will have a hundred voices”, opposing views are common and they should exist. However, this time it has just been a lot for noise for no real purpose. I am open to comments and corrections but please do not argue for the sake of it. 1. Why is there a hatred towards Hindi? People behind this are the lazy ones who are not capable of learning Hindi. Neither is this a movement against the Hindi language, nor does it discourage or demean those who want to learn Hindi. Kannada poet Manjeshwara Govinda Pai had learnt fifteen languages, Shatavadhani Ganesh is known to have learnt eighteen languages. There is no one stopping you from learning more than that. Another Kannada poet B. M. Srikantaiah, an admirer and a scholar of both English and Sanskrit, spoke about how Kannada has been troubled by both the languages. Our intention is to make sure that Hindi does not get precedence over other languages. We do respect all the languages and we should maintain the same. Moreover, a lot of us love and admire Hindi. I personally have spent hours together reading Hindi shayaris, Hindi books in their original form, and I have also translated a story from Hindi to Kannada. But that is not the point here. When a child is instructed by the parents not to watch TV or to stop playing cricket and start studying, does it mean that the parents hate cricket or that they are against watching TV? No, no, not at all! They just want the child to give precedence to studying over other activities. Similarly, our discussion is about how much priority should be given to Hindi. Just like how a parent is expected to provide equal educational opportunities to all her children, the government should treat all languages equally (and not put just one of them on a pedestal). All Indian languages are equal in the sense that all languages are ‘regional’. Hindi alone should not resort to chest thumping with the false assumption it is the only ‘national language’. We are of the opinion that all of them are national languages. The government should not encourage this attitude of one language being superior to the others. We want to be friends with Hindi speakers, but at the same time we do not need to deem them superior. We want to just make it clear that Hindi and Hindi imposition are two entirely different things. It can be understood using this analogy which Ms. Aparna used in her article in “Kannada Prabha” newspaper: There is a difference between someone voluntarily buying a piece of chocolate at the store and having to buy one forcibly because the shopkeeper has no change. The same applies here as well. 2. Why don’t you talk about English (imposition)? A counter question to answer this question: Where had you vanished when the discussion about English was happening? Along the same lines, in the past century or so, there have not been discussions about any other language as much as there have been about English. Kannada movement has a history of at least one hundred years. As mentioned earlier, poet B.M.Sri has talked about English, Sanskrit, as well as Hindi affecting Kannada. A number of Kannada literary giants including Masti Venkatesha Iyengar, Sediyapu Krishna Bhat, Kuvempu and U R Anantamurthy among others, have voiced their opinions about English. Apart from writers and poets, many individuals and organisations have raised their voices against the forceful imposition of both English and Hindi. Those who allege that English imposition is not being discussed are just turning a blind eye, intentionally or unintentionally. To top it all, my first blog post is about English! None of the aforementioned persons have discouraged learning English and have clearly recognised the advantages of learning the English language. Their main concern was that one should not forget Kannada for the sake of English and consequently English should not become an enemy of Kannada. 3. Can’t we get rid of English instead of Hindi? We are not like frogs in a well. We need contact with the outside world and we cannot live in a marooned island without a link language. We need a way to access the knowledge that is documented in other languages. The next question is which of the two languages under consideration is most suited to be the link language. A trip to Mangalore, Udupi or to smaller towns such as Balehonnur or to Badiyadka near the Kerala border should provide an answer. If you survey a few display boards, you will observe that most of them are written only in Kannada, or in Kannada and English but never in Hindi. Another case is of the wedding invitations. You will find only Kannada and English there as well and never Hindi. In what language do our people sign? Is there anyone in Karnataka who has a signature in Hindi? Among the numerous private schools we have, try to count the number people who have gone to Hindi medium schools. Among those who have studied science, engineering, medicine and law, how many have studied their subjects/courses in Hindi? The people themselves have shown preference to English over Hindi as the link language by making such choices every day. We read the instructions of how to link our Aadhar with PAN in English and not in Hindi. During the golden age of Islam, Muslim intellectuals translated many Sanskrit books to Persian. This was not imposed on them by anyone, instead they were attracted by the treasure cove of knowledge that was in Sanskrit and voluntarily translated into Persian in order to spread the same to their part of the world. Newton wrote his works in Latin and not in English, which was his mother tongue. The status that Latin and Sanskrit enjoyed in those days has now been taken over by English. Everyone needs the advantages that English offers today. We can regulate the status and the extent of usage of English in our society such that it does not pose a threat to our own languages. When such is the case, comparing English with Hindi is like asking why Tendulkar gets to open and not Kumble, though both Kumble and Tendulkar are capable of holding the bat. Link language exists for the sake of utility. It is obvious that the first choice of a link language by the people would be the one that has more utility. As mentioned before, there is no opposition to learning English or Hindi by anyone. The concern here is that the learning of other languages should not be a threat to Kannada. 4. You realised all this only when Modi came to power. These discussions were on when Manmohan Singh was in power as well. Even before that, that is even before independence, there have been protests, movements, discussions and demonstrations for the same cause. Some may have linked this to politics but that does not change the narrative. It is advisable that both parties, for and against, should keep politics out of this. 5. This is a ‘roll-call protest’ (You are getting paid by vested interests to do this). Please let us know who pays roll-call for this. If we are indeed getting as much money as these Hindi-lovers claim, I will gladly quit my job and take this up full time. I have been working for this cause for the last eight years and have not received a single rupee from the Hindi speakers. Wonder who decides how much roll-call is paid. Perhaps the sons of Hindi-maata should decide. 6. Discussions about Kirik Keerthi (a new-age self-proclaimed pro-Kannada activist who went viral on YouTube and subsequently entered BigBoss). More than half of those arguing against us have reserved more than half of their strength to take on Kirik Keerthi. They have ignored what the poets, writers and scholars have said and conveniently chosen to counter only what Kirik Keerthi has said. Even the articles recently written by Vasudhendra, Aparna in Kannada Prabha and the relevant content by teams such as Banavasi Balaga, Munnota and individuals like Vasant Shetty have been completely disregarded. 7. What is wrong in having Hindi on the Bangalore Metro display boards? This discussion has a socio-political context. The display boards used in the Bangalore Metro only served as a trigger. The bigger question should be about the preferential treatment of Hindi over other languages. The status of Hindi in comparison with Kannada should be clearly discussed. Kannada has completely disappeared from banks, railway, milestones on highways, LIC and even from cooking gas cylinders. There are those who are pushing to get a union territory status to Bangalore. Companies like Flipkart that are based in Bangalore communicate only in English and Hindi with their customers. Bus conductors, auto-rickshaw drivers, cab drivers and shopkeepers who cannot speak Hindi are treated like barbarians by many. A cab company has made it mandatory for its drivers to know Hindi. One of the governors has propagated Hindi saying it is our duty to learn the language. Just yesterday a bunch of people protested in a shopping mall because a girl there did not/could not respond to them in Hindi. UPSC exams are available in Hindi and none of the other Indian languages. There is an endless list of such problems. It has also become common to see posts on Facebook which call for ‘banning this local language’ . 8. Why are you making such big issue out of this? What has happened to Kannada now? I received a call from Axis bank yesterday. The person on the line straightaway spoke to me in Hindi. I do not understand why he thought Hindi would be the most preferred language in Bangalore. The same is reflected in areas such as Marathalli, Whitefield and MG road. Parents in big cities talk to their kids in English. Most parents are not aware of songs written for children in Kannada. Kids don’t read stories in Kannada. They learn Ramayana and Mahabharata in English. The language gradually dies if this trend continues. At one point of time, Europe had over one thousand languages, out of which only about twenty-five are left today. Pakistan government imposed Urdu on everyone which troubled the languages of Punjabis and Sindhis, despite them being more in number. English has sidelined Irish in Ireland and completely wiped out numerous African languages. Sanskrit and Latin, which once enjoyed the same status as that of English today, are not being spoken as everyday languages. Prakrit and Pali languages of our country have completely died out. Around one hundred and ninety languages in India are currently at the verge of extinction. Languages do not die overnight, instead they undergo a gradual process of extinction. Though we cannot claim any near-to-death status for Kannada, it is true that has been severely infected. Instead of trying to fetch a doctor when the language is about to die, it is easier to treat it every time it falls sick. 9. We need a national language for the unity of the nation. Has there been an instance where Karnataka has declared war on Madhya Pradesh in the last seventy years? Has there been a civil war between Kerala and Gujarat? We are living in unity to a great extent. We have had problems relating to corruption and poverty but never once because we do not have a national language. There are people protesting for food, water, employment, better transport conditions and electricity among others, but only a handful for a ‘national language’. Till date there are around sixty crore people who do not know Hindi who have never posed a threat to the unity of the country. Did the entire nation know Hindi during the freedom struggle? And yet the whole country fought for the cause in unison. When Gandhiji came to Mangalore, a local translated/interpreted his speech to either Kannada or Tulu. Where there is a will, there is a way. They say “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”. Is it not breaking unity if one tries to find a cure for a non-existent disease? It is not about what we learn on own free-will. But it is imposition if it is forced upon somebody who is not willing or has resources to learn. Also, don't confuse nationalism with Hindi learning. I can be a true patriot (miss Shawn Hannity in India) and still not know how to speak in Hindi. And it is not a colonial hangover to learn English over Hindi. It is practical in this day and age to know English over Hindi! Edited July 19, 2017 by coffee_rules Cricketics, sourab10forever and Haarkarjeetgaye 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surajmal Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 And lol at this contrived Southern Unity. First get on board with something as trivial as water sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sourab10forever Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, rageaddict said: Your language is already getting the first preference in the state and that should settle the debate. It would be Hindi Imposition if Kannada was being replaced by Hindi . How do you justify the inclusion of English? Is Kannada on signboards at the London Metro and hence you are doing the favor of return? So, you want preference for your own language which has been provided. English too, okay that has been provided too. ( Even though the locals should be content with Kannada alone) But no space for Hindi. For a language that is spoken / understood by vast majority of the country. Sorry but it's not going to work like this. Karntataka is a part of India, not a separate Nation which will run only according to wishes of narrow minded and insecure locals. Majority of the people in Karnataka can either read English or kannada. Hence the two chosen languages. It isn't a favor or anything. Majority of the people (almost 90%) can't read Hindi. What is the point of including Hindi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sourab10forever Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, surajmal said: And lol at this contrived Southern Unity. First get on board with something as trivial as water sharing. It might be trivial for you but it is a question of survival for the hundreds of thousands of farmars in both the states. Not saying who was right or wrong. Both were right in fighting for the most important thing you require to survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Merlyn Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 There is no official flag of Karanataka.Its only a symbolic flag.Only J and K has a official state flag. Is Karnataka a separate country like Singapore or UAE?This third grade feeling that somehow you guys are separate and special from the rest of the country needs to be dealt with. Do you understand why sign boards are put?To help people.While Kannadigas can understand kannada and all southern states can understand english north indians dont and millions of north indians live or visit karnataka.Hence usage of hindi on the sign boards.It doesnt replace kannada or english its just an addition to help people. Would it be nice if govt of India stops taking in southies in union govt jobs because not knowing hindi means they cannot serve outside the southern states?A person knowing hindi can serve in most states even Telengana and hyderabad because of the use of dakkhani hindi.Will that be good ?Why should a mallu bank manager be there in kolkata?Why should i talk to him in english?He cant speak hindi or bengali.Fire his ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Merlyn Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 @surajmal Should happen.Lets watch the IT industry collapse in Karnataka.Let them keep their language Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Merlyn Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 @lannister Would it be nice if govt of India stops taking in southies in union govt jobs because not knowing hindi means they cannot serve outside the southern states?A person knowing hindi can serve in most states even Telengana and hyderabad because of the use of dakkhani hindi.Will that be good?Why should i speak in english to the mallu bank manager?He should be fired or not even hired as he cannot serve in most of the country. India isnt made up of only the southern states.This language issue seems to be only with Karnataka Tamil Nadu and Kerala.You are part of a larger country and not sovereign.If a language is used for the benefit of millions of Indians who visit Karnataka and is not replacing English or Kannada what is the problem? Or is it that you simply dont care about the rest of the country? Tommorow you will say we will not sing Jana Gana Mana as it was composed in Bengali.Why chant vedic mantras composed in Sanskrit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lannister Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) I don't mind having Hindi as an elective subject, but making it mandatory is what boils my blood seeing the general attitude of Hindi speakers towards other languages. I'd rather today's kids learn a language like Sanskrit. Edited July 19, 2017 by Lannister sourab10forever 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 2 hours ago, Malcolm Merlyn said: Massively disappointed with my kannadiga friends here.If each state starts behaving like a sovereign country how long will India last?I thought the idea of India was strong within Karnataka Telengana Andhra while not so strong in Kerala and TN.Seems i was wrong. @lannister@coffee_rules The idea of India in Karnataka/Andhra/Telengana is as much as in any North Indian state, Don't confuse that with Hindi. Hindi is seen as an imposition. Actually nowadays Punjabi is more popular in India because of Bollywood culture. I went to a Tambi wedding in Chennai which had a Sangeet ceremony with all punjabi songs. Can't imagine a south Indian wedding with that culture. But there is a Punjabi culture takeover which is not imposition. Tomorrow we can't have signboards in Punjabi all throughout India just because it is popular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rageaddict Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: The idea of India in Karnataka/Andhra/Telengana is as much as in any North Indian state, Don't confuse that with Hindi. Hindi is seen as an imposition. Actually nowadays Punjabi is more popular in India because of Bollywood culture. I went to a Tambi wedding in Chennai which had a Sangeet ceremony with all punjabi songs. Can't imagine a south Indian wedding with that culture. But there is a Punjabi culture takeover which is not imposition. Tomorrow we can't have signboards in Punjabi all throughout India just because it is popular. There are Hindi Signboards in Punjab, Maharashtra, Gujarat Bengal , Orissa even in J @ K. Will follow in Southern States too. You, your culture and your state are nothing special. Tum cheez Kya ho, tumhari toh ghar main ghus ke lenge. Too much violence and agitations would only mean investment flowing to other cities. Then we will see. Lol@ comparison to Punjabi. Kya logic hai Waah. Edited July 19, 2017 by rageaddict Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 1 hour ago, rageaddict said: Nobody is going to learn your insignificant regional language but I bet you do learn a lot of Hindi through Bollywood Movies and Songs , that's the soft power. Hence we will make sure they learn Kannada or be happy with English signboards. What I like and learn is out my free will. My driver who came from humble beginnings and didn't have a choice to learn Hindi should not be fired because he doesn't know hindi. A lot of my fellow North Indian neighbors are pissed that the locals don't speak Hindi. Really? sourab10forever 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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