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Karnataka appoints panel to design ‘state flag’, look into legal sanctity

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8 minutes ago, rageaddict said:

Good,  but First Start by removing Hindi from Namma Metro Stations. One Step at a time. 

It's thanks to you guys, we will finally be able to get rid of this parasite. Plz do impose more Hindi on us. :phehe:

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2 hours ago, ladybouvier said:

All of the states you've mentioned have languages which are very closely related to Hindi, either by script or by speech. That is perhaps one of the reasons Hindi is quite easy to pick up for North Indians. In the south however, it's an entirely different language family. There are no intricate similarities between Hindi and say, Tamil, whereas Hindi and Marathi use the same script and share a lot of common vocabulary. Logically, it is much easier for Marathis to pick up Hindi than it is for South Indians.

The languages that you mentioned could be close. But Hindi is closer to Indian languages than Eng, which many in South prefer 

 

Quote

This is happening at a cost. You can virtually survive anywhere in Bombay with just Hindi. Pretty soon, there won't any relevance for Marathi there and everyone will be speaking either Hindi or English. And for some reason, they don't seem to care about their language dying. Kannadigas became woke at least now and are trying to preserve Kannada by eliminating Hindi imposition. You never know, Marathis may  follow their lead in future.

If that logic were to be extended, all linga franca languages should not be learned. And the communication system would break

 

In my family, people speak all or a combination of languages from Gujarati, Hindi, Punjabi, English and French. And are encouraged to learn more languages if time permits

Edited by zen

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8 minutes ago, Lannister said:

It's thanks to you guys, we will finally be able to get rid of this parasite. Plz do impose more Hindi on us. :phehe:

http://m.indiatoday.in/story/karnataka-rakshana-vedike-hindi-signboards-namma-metro-stations/1/1006701.html

 

Yeah but please take care of your safety too. Don't get too carried away with  painting Hindi signboards.

 

Your own Police is giving  a Danda to you guys to preserve the imposition. LOL. 

Edited by rageaddict

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The issue is even on milestones in TN(Probably in other south Indian states as well), they replaced English with Hindi and in some cases had just Hindi instead of all the three languages. This indicates the intent of the central government or whoever responsible and hence the backlash is justified.

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3 hours ago, sandeep said:

I can understand if its country bumpkins who are impressionable and fall for that kind of silly logic.  But @coffee_rules has been around for a while on ICF, he's not an idiot.  So him spouting this kind of silly regional nonsense didn't make sense to me.  

 

Hindi's not my native tongue either, but what's really the big deal in accepting it along with English as the other interstate language?   

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that as long as Kannada is not pushed to complete irrelevance . 

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1 minute ago, jusarrived said:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that as long as Kannada is not pushed to complete irrelevance . 

How does including the national language on a signboard push Kannada to "irrelevance"?   Given Banglaore's evolution as a true metropolis, and a resulting population boom in non-kannada speakers, it just makes sense.   Why so defensive?  

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6 hours ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

Must admit with all the IT boom and MNCs, Bangalore may have developed as a city but the mentality of people has not changed. Bangalore like Mumbai/Delhi is a cosmopolitan city. So its obvious, people from all over the country to come there for job, family, tourism or pleasure. Its not anybody's personal property. They are there on their individual right being an Indian and no one can or should force them to learn Kannada if they don't want to. Bangalore is no rural village where only local people resides.

 

No one is forcing you to speak in hindi, its your personal matter. Similarly, you cannot expect all North Indians to speak or embrace Kannada language. Its their personal choice too, correct na?

 

There are thousands and thousands of South Indians live in UK. In fact there are many Telugu/Kannada samithis here where members meet up, organize puja's, celebrate festivals etc. I think its a fantastic gesture. But the hypocrisy is, you want to embrace your culture when living overseas but want North Indians to learn Kannada moment they start living in Bangalore. LOL.

 

Tell me once incident you heard in Delhi/Chandigarh/Kolkata etc. where Southern people are treated unfairly. We take pride in them. But I can give ample examples of unfair treatment towards North Indians. In 2012, North Eastern people being beaten up and made to flee the city. There was no BJP govt back then. There are pubs in Bangalore where African students are not allowed. And now they are removing hindi sign boards from metro. How low can one get?I can understand if someone replace their local language with Hindi that is an issue. But what is the harm of having 3 language sign boards? All railway signboards in North India has Eng, Hindi and Urdu. All signboards in Bengal (my home state) has Eng, Bengali and Hindi. Why cant you guys have 3 languages? This is beyond silly and borderline racism.

 

Also, you can cry loud as much as you want that Hindi is not our national language but no one can deny its the most spoken language in India. Even our constitution is written in Eng and Hindi. So the argument of why Delhi metro don't have Kannada signboards is silly. I can also argue why there are no Bengali signboards, Gujratis would want Gujju signboards...so on and so forth. This is plain stupid.

 

Another failed effort by Congress. Any state where Congress is ruling is progressing in India?

 

The sign broad controversy is all political , this not a demand form general public and doubt any one cares about it , but there still a language issue and no hypocrisy in that .

I have a half a dozen north Indians in my family , 2 of them who have only lived in Bangalore for 4-5 years and can speak Kannada and one of them who stayed here for 15+ years but cant speak a word . Not every one can learn a new language easily , some just dont take that interest which is all ok . I could barely speak few words of Marathi in spite a living in Mumbai for 10 years . 

No one expects NI's to come and learn Kannada in a few days or they are ever expected to learn if they dont feel the need to . off course its their choice , but living in Bangalore you cannot demand the locals also speak in Hindi , while most locals do speak Hindi willingly you should not have a problem with a small section who dont speak Hindi or dont choose to , respect their choice too . 

My wife attended an interview in Flipkart 2 years back for an HR position and one of the questions which was asked was "Do you speak Hindi?" , when she responded she could manage the lady stressed that since most of the team speaks in Hindi and the people who she will work with are all Hindi speaking she would find it difficult to cope up . She was never offered , the reason may be different but clearly thats one of the criterias ? 

its cos of such experiences we are gradually seeing an anti-hindi wave . 

 

Sorry but some of the points you are making are nonsense .

Do you know who and why North east guys where targeted in Bangalore? 

As for Blacks being not allowed in some Pubs in Bangalore , lets not get carried away with what the media reports about these guys ..its well known that most of them are involved in shady stuffs and are generally they are big nuisance , not cos they are "black" . There are pubs in Kaamanhalli where only Blacks are allowed . 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, sandeep said:

How does including the national language on a signboard push Kannada to "irrelevance"?   Given Banglaore's evolution as a true metropolis, and a resulting population boom in non-kannada speakers, it just makes sense.   Why so defensive?  

Like I said , the signboard thing is political , it means nothing ..but the larger language issue is what a lot of people can relate to and this is exactly what congress is trying to exploit here . 

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54 minutes ago, sandeep said:

How does including the national language on a signboard push Kannada to "irrelevance"?   Given Banglaore's evolution as a true metropolis, and a resulting population boom in non-kannada speakers, it just makes sense.   Why so defensive?  

 

This is something I posted couple of weeks back and sort of things I have issues with . And it looks like they have got rid off the security guy , I see some NE guys guarding now .  if thats true and I take this up again am not going to be very popular lol

 

 

I picked up an new apartment , which is getting ready to move in and all owners are part of a watsapp group . They have just 3-4 security guards now since only 1-2 families have moved in and the discussion was about lack of security . I see after a while we have couple of guys complaining about these guys not being able to speak Hindi and demanding getting rid of them . I had to intervene and at my diplomatic best said its unreasonable to expect these guys who come from remote areas to speak Hindi and its not fair to kick them out cos of that . Assuming since I was a local , some of them now started suggesting we need to get a guys who could speak Kannada and Hindi ? 

I had to clarify again , I dont really care weather the guy is a Kannada , Hindi , my first issue is we will not throw some one out cos he cannot speak a certain language . if the argument is that we have lot of NI residents who speak only Hindi , then what about Tamil guys who do not understand Hindi ? Not surprisingly expect for one guy who seemed sensible no else got my point . I will bet this uneducated guard will learn few words of Hindi in next couple of months , but some of our educated brothers from north after having lived here for more than a decade let alone learning a few words cannot tolerate a local guy speaking his language . 

in the end I know I look like a anti-hindi local in Bangalore , but I will keep making it clear to people who do not understand . 

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4 minutes ago, jusarrived said:

 

This is something I posted couple of weeks back and sort of things I have issues with . And it looks like they have got rid off the security guy , I see some NE guys guarding now .  if thats true and I take this up again am not going to be very popular lol

 

 

I picked up an new apartment , which is getting ready to move in and all owners are part of a watsapp group . They have just 3-4 security guards now since only 1-2 families have moved in and the discussion was about lack of security . I see after a while we have couple of guys complaining about these guys not being able to speak Hindi and demanding getting rid of them . I had to intervene and at my diplomatic best said its unreasonable to expect these guys who come from remote areas to speak Hindi and its not fair to kick them out cos of that . Assuming since I was a local , some of them now started suggesting we need to get a guys who could speak Kannada and Hindi ? 

I had to clarify again , I dont really care weather the guy is a Kannada , Hindi , my first issue is we will not throw some one out cos he cannot speak a certain language . if the argument is that we have lot of NI residents who speak only Hindi , then what about Tamil guys who do not understand Hindi ? Not surprisingly expect for one guy who seemed sensible no else got my point . I will bet this uneducated guard will learn few words of Hindi in next couple of months , but some of our educated brothers from north after having lived here for more than a decade let alone learning a few words cannot tolerate a local guy speaking his language . 

in the end I know I look like a anti-hindi local in Bangalore , but I will keep making it clear to people who do not understand . 

This is anecdotal.  And wrong btw.  I agree with your assertion that a local should not be losing his job because of this.    But 2 wrongs don't make a right.  Never have.

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12 hours ago, sandeep said:

I can understand if its country bumpkins who are impressionable and fall for that kind of silly logic.  But @coffee_rules has been around for a while on ICF, he's not an idiot.  So him spouting this kind of silly regional nonsense didn't make sense to me.  

 

Hindi's not my native tongue either, but what's really the big deal in accepting it along with English as the other interstate language?   

I have claimed that is raked up by Sidda the CM to hold on to the seat. But, the underlying emotion among some cant be denied. These problems are not anecdotal. Nobody is asking these ppl coming to learn and excel in kannada.  A little sensitivity is expected from them to learn and talk in kannada to the local help, vegetable guy, milk man etc. Instead, we are seeing more and more demands of them expecting these locals to learn hindi and even fire them. i have met ppl living in Begalore for decades without knowing a single word of kannada. This emotion is even among  professionals this time, not by some fringe group. This is seen as an imposition of Hindi and accomodation beyond limit.

Quote

7. What is wrong in having Hindi on the Bangalore Metro display boards?

 

This discussion has a socio-political context. The display boards used in the Bangalore Metro only served as a trigger. The bigger question should be about the preferential treatment of Hindi over other languages. The status of Hindi in comparison with Kannada should be clearly discussed. Kannada has completely disappeared from banks, railway, milestones on highways, LIC and even from cooking gas cylinders. There are those who are pushing to get a union territory status to Bangalore. Companies like Flipkart that are based in Bangalore communicate only in English and Hindi with their customers. Bus conductors, auto-rickshaw drivers, cab drivers and shopkeepers who cannot speak Hindi are treated like barbarians by many. A cab company has made it mandatory for its drivers to know Hindi. One of the governors has propagated Hindi saying it is our duty to learn the language. Just yesterday a bunch of people protested in a shopping mall because a girl there did not/could not respond to them in Hindi. UPSC exams are available in Hindi and none of the other Indian languages. There is an endless list of such problems. It has also become common to see posts on Facebook which call for ‘banning this local language’ 

 

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On Thursday, July 20, 2017 at 0:30 AM, Mariyam said:

I find this debate ridiculous. The state of Karnataka has Konkani and Tulu in addition to Kannada as local languages. No one wants to mention that. Possibly more people in Karnataka speak these languages than Hindi. If signs are going to be put up in Hindi, there should be signs in Konkani and Tulu (not sure if they have  a script) too.

Good point. You forgot kodava, the language spoken in Madikeri. They are also demanding a separate state because they feel cannibalised by kannada. Tulu and Kodava are spoken languages with no script, so can put sign boards only in kannada. Milestones in some remote villages are in hindi . Isnt that idiotic of these UPSC babus and a case of imposition?

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17 hours ago, sandeep said:

How does including the national language on a signboard push Kannada to "irrelevance"?   Given Banglaore's evolution as a true metropolis, and a resulting population boom in non-kannada speakers, it just makes sense.   Why so defensive?  

Hindi is not India's national language .

 

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:afraid:Warning: Long post incoming :afraid:

 

On 7/19/2017 at 10:52 PM, BeautifulGame said:

1.Congress did try to force Hindi when drawing the constitution.But we south resisted and and a solution was found to use either  English or Hindi as official language for 15 years and then to take stock later.

 

This isn’t entirely accurate.  Many non-Hindi speaking states had movements against Hindi as sole official language of India, not just the “South”, including Punjab, Maharashtra, and Bengal. However, correct me if I am wrong, the main place where it got violent was Tamil Nadu, and Tamil Nadu was the epicenter of most of the anti-Hindi agitations throughout post-Independence history. 

 

There were multiple strains of language politics around the time of independence, not just Hindi imposition on the South. Many people outside the South were affected even after the amendment by Shastri, with the people in Jammu and Kashmir the worst hit. 

 

On 7/19/2017 at 10:52 PM, BeautifulGame said:

2.And when the 15 year period came ,GOI under Shastri did try to force Hindi .Which triggered massive protests in TN and Congress gave up that policy.

 

The post-Independence era Congress did indeed put a hold on the policy of "Hindi" being the sole official language of India, and allowed English to retain usage and gain official status after the temporary hold, but now both Hindi and English are official languages of the Indian government. If that is sufficient to satisfy desires to stop "Hindi imposition" then fair play, but then please explain how any government since the 1960's has done anything to legally undermine this.

 

If we use Tamil Nadu as the barometer of Hindi imposition and anti-Hindi agitations historically, and we use Karnataka as a reference for this thread,  we can see (using the Wikipedia pages)  a number of accusations of Hindi imposition on the Center/Ruling Parties throughout history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Hindi_agitations_of_Tamil_Nadu  (Tamil Nadu)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Hindi_Imposition_Campaign   (Karnataka)

 

Looking at only the instances after 1965:

 

First the instances in TN: 

 

1967: Protests to teach Congress a lesson

Spoiler

Shastri died in January 1966 and Indira Gandhi became prime minister. The election of 1967 saw Congress retaining power with a reduced majority in the Centre. In Madras State, Congress was defeated and DMK came to power thanks to the support of the entire student community who had taken up the challenge thrown by Kamaraj to defeat him in the elections. The Students' Election Army did door to door campaign urging people to vote against Congress to teach them a lesson for all the atrocities committed by the Bhaktavatsalam Government to students under Defence of India Rules etc., P. Sreenivasan defeated Kamaraj in Virudhunagar. In November 1967, a new attempt to amend the Bill was made. On 27 November,[70] the Bill was tabled in Parliament; it was passed on 16 December (by 205 votes to 41 against[93]). It received presidential assent on 8 January 1968 and came into effect.[94] The Amendment modified[95] section 3 of the 1963 Act to guarantee the "virtual indefinite policy of bilingualism"[93] (English and Hindi) in official transactions.[96] Also see students' struggle 1963-68[97]

 

1968: Protests to stop the three language policy. Congress at center. 

Spoiler

The anti-Hindi activists from Madras State were not satisfied with the 1967 Amendment, as it did not address their concerns about the three language formula. However, with DMK in power, they hesitated to restart the agitation. The Tamil Nadu Students' Anti-Hindi imposition Agitation council split into several factions. The moderate factions favored letting Annadurai and the government to deal with the situation. The extremist factions restarted the agitations. They demanded scrapping of the three language formula and an end to teaching of Hindi, abolishing the use of Hindi commands in the National Cadet Corps (NCC), banning of Hindi films and songs and closure of the Dakshina Bharat Hindi Prachara Sabha (Institution for Propagation of Hindi in South India).

On 19 December 1967, the agitation was restarted. It turned violent on 21 December and acts of arson and looting were reported in the state. Annadurai defused the situation by accepting most of their demands.[70][98] On 23 January 1968, a resolution was passed in the Legislative Assembly. It accomplished the following:[99]

The Three-Language Policy was scrapped and Hindi was eliminated from the curriculum. Only English and Tamil were to be taught and the use of Hindi commands in the NCC was banned. Tamil was to be introduced as the medium of instruction in all colleges and as the "language of administration" within five years, the Central Government was urged to end the special status accorded to Hindi in the Constitution and "treat all languages equally", and was urged to provide financial assistance for development of all languages mentioned in the Eighth Schedule of the Constitution. These measures satisfied the agitators and "normalcy" returned by February 1968.[70]

 

Agitation 1986:  Agitation against the National Education Policy introduced under the Rajiv Gandhi Government, based on claims that Hindi would be made compulsory in Navodaya schools. The Center claimed no Hindi would be imposed and the schools were designed to help underprivileged communities. Tamil Nadu became the only state where this policy was not implemented.  

Spoiler

In 1986, Indian Prime minister Rajiv Gandhi introduced the "National Education Policy".[100] This education policy provided for setting up Navodaya Schools, where the DMK claimed teaching of Hindi would be compulsory.[101] The Anna Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam (ADMK) led by M. G. Ramachandran (which had split from the DMK in 1972), was in power in Tamil Nadu and the DMK was the main opposition party. Karunanidhi announced an agitation against the opening of Navodaya schools in Tamil Nadu. The Jawahar Navodaya Vidyalaya program, supported fully by the Ministry of Human Resource Development, was established to identify gifted and talented students from economically disadvantaged and historically neglected communities, throughout every state and Union Territory in India and provide for them an education on par with elite residential schools traditionally available in India only for children of the wealthy as well as children of the political class. On 13 November, the Tamil Nadu Legislative Assembly unanimously passed a resolution demanding the repeal of Part XVII of the constitution and for making English the sole official language of the union.[102][103][104]

On 17 November 1986, DMK members protested against the new education policy by burning Part XVII of the Constitution.[102] 20,000 DMK members, including Karunanidhi, were arrested.[104] 21 persons committed suicide by self-immolation.[105] Karunanidhi was sentenced to ten weeks of rigorous imprisonment. Ten DMK MLAs including K. Anbazhaganwere expelled from the Legislative Assembly by the speaker P. H. Pandian.[102] Rajiv Gandhi assured Members of Parliament from Tamil Nadu that Hindi would not be imposed.[106]As part of the compromise, Navodhaya schools were not started in Tamil Nadu. Currently, Tamil Nadu is the only state in India without Navodaya schools.

 

Agitation 2014: Modi government asks government officials using official accounts on social networking sites to use Hindi (1 of 2 official languages), use both  English and Hindi (both official languages with priority given to Hindi). The erstwhile CM of Tamil Nadu cautions that this may cause unrest in Tamil Nadu and advises the center to use English (1 of the 2 official languages) as English is the language of social media. 

Spoiler

In 2014, the Home Ministry ordered that "government employees and officials of all ministries, departments, corporations or banks, who have made official accounts on social networking sites should use Hindi, or both Hindi and English but give priority to Hindi".[108] This move was immediately opposed by all the political parties in Tamil Nadu.[109][110]Terming the move on use of Hindi as being "against letter and spirit" of the Official Languages Act the Tamil Nadu Chief Minister Jayalalithaa cautioned that this direction may "cause disquiet to the people of Tamil Nadu who are very proud of and passionate about their linguistic heritage," and asked the Prime Minister of India to suitably modify the instructions to ensure that English was the language of communication on social media.[111] The major opposition party Indian National Congress advised prudence, expressing fear that such directions may result in a backlash in non-Hindi states, especially Tamil Nadu and also said that the "Government would be well-advised to proceed with caution,".[112] These protests ensured the continuous official usage of English.[113]

 

Tamil Nadu Summary:

Without judgement of if the Tamil Nadu political party(ies) / state governments were right or wrong in each case, one can see that post the 1965 amendment to the Official Languages Act, there were 4 agitations in TN, 3 while there was Congress in power at the Central level, and 1 when the BJP was in power. 

 

Instances in Karnataka:

 

2006: with INC at the Center, an anti Hindi conference was held in Bangalore, protesting the celebration of Hindi day in Central government institutions.

2011: with INC at the Center, one Kannada activist and some protesters agitate against "Hindi imposition strategies" of the Central government, seemingly centered around signs and announcements made in Hindi.   

2015: with BJP at the Center, after Modi gives the Independence Day Speech in Hindi, some social media activists, supposedly from Banglore and Chennai, protest by trending a hashtag on twitter and pointing out advertising on twitter having Hindi. 

Spoiler

The Indian people speak 122 major languages and 1599 other languages. The official languages of the Union Government are Hindi in the Devanagari script and English. The 8th Schedule of the Indian Constitution lists 22 languages that have been referred to as scheduled languages and given official recognition and encouragement. The Government of India awarded the distinction of "classical language" to Tamil, Sanskrit, Kannada, Telugu, Malayalam and Odia.[5] In 2006, an "Anti Hindi-imposition conference" was held in Bangalore on 14 September, which is celebrated as Hindi Divas ("Hindi Day") in Indian central government institutions. The aim of the conference was to discuss plans for countering the imposition of Hindi on Kannadigas and the central government's Rajbhasha policy.[6] [7].

Kannada activities including KRVKarnataka Rakshana Vedike protested on December 2011, against Hindi imposition strategies of Central government on Bangalore Metro, by questioning need of Hindi "Hindi is not our national language. There is no to speak Hindi at stations. For people who do not know Kannada, announcements are made in English, which is the accepted language of communication", [8], and for this BMRCl spoke person Chavan, promised to look into the demands of the Vedike. The protesters have given the BMRCL a week to reply to their demands. And subsequently many boards got updated.

On the 69th Independence Day of India, Narendra Modi delivered his prime ministerial speech in Hindi. This launched the movement, which slowly started trending on Twitter in several cities in South India, including Bengaluru and Chennai. Government advertisements and websites that used Hindi in non-Hindi speaking states were pointed out by online activists.[9][10] The hashtag #StopHindiImposition trended nationally on 23 August 2015.[11] Internet users raised issues including the absence of local languages in the security and safety instructions on flight announcements, trains and even LPG cylinders.[12] In Bangalore, activists questioned the use of Hindi over other linguistic majorities in the trains of Namma Metro.[13]

 

Current issue with BJP at the Center, has some activists protesting sign-boards with 3 languages written on them: Kannada, English, and Hindi, the latter 2 both being official languages of the Indian government. The activists want Hindi completely removed from the sign-boards. 

 

Karnataka Summary:

Once again, without going into the merits of each case, overall there were 4 instances of protesting Hindi imposition in Karnataka, all since 2006, with 2 falling under the INC regime at the Center and 2 falling under the current dispensation. 

 

Overall looking at both TN and Karnataka, since the passage of the amendment to the Official Languages Act under Shastri in 1965, there have been 3 instances of alleged Hindi imposition under a BJP regime and 5 under an INC regime. 

 

 

On 7/19/2017 at 10:52 PM, BeautifulGame said:

Since then I haven't seen them backtracking on the issue.Difference is for whatever reason BJP is igniting it again.

So, based on the agitations, we can see that people in TN have indeed accused the Center, while under INC leadership, of imposing Hindi. We can also see that the activism in Karnataka has started in the last 11 years and those activists also saw alleged "Hindi imposition" under the INC on 2 occasions. 

 

On 7/19/2017 at 10:52 PM, BeautifulGame said:

3.And no one has advocated for English imposition either.

What is being said is if one wants to communicate with people down south either learn English or learn the local language (which is probably much harder).

If we wanna communicate with North India then we will learn Hindi or whatever language or options available.

 

Basically it should be based on own will and necessasity whichever language one is learning .Not by imposition.

 I could agree that if it the agitation was about talking with local people. That only makes sense: if you go to Tamil Nadu, talk with the locals in Tamil, if you go to Punjab, speak with the locals in Punjabi, but that is not what the post of mine you quoted is addressing. 

 

On the first page of the thread, Malcolm Merlyn asked

Quote

What is wrong if a sign board has English Hindi and Kannada on it?

One example post in response to Malcolm Merlyn's question was by Coffee_Rules, which stated

Quote

What is wrong if a sign board has English and Kannada on it? Others can read English, locals can read kannada.

I was reacting to the sentiment in the reply to Malcolm Merlyn's post (as well as the revisionist history being propagated by the other poster who is clearly ignorant of the history of language politics in India and doesn't know that it wasn't limited to only South India fighting Hindi imposition, but it affected most provinces all the way up North to Jammu, Kashmir, and Punjab, but that is digressing :giggle:).

 

If a signboard has Kannada(the state's official language), English (1 of 2 official languages of the Indian government), and Hindi (the other official language of the Indian government), where is the Hindi imposition?  A common Kannadiga can read the sign in Kannada and any visitors to the area can read the signs in whichever of English or Hindi, the visitor understands. Literally nobody has to learn Hindi if it is on a signboard. 

 

IF one calls a public transport sign having the state's official language, and both languages recognized constitutionally as official languages of government as "imposition of Hindi", then a number of questions and logical conclusions can arise from this(anyone feel free to answer):

 

1) If a sign with Hindi on it as the third language is "Hindi imposition", despite no one being forced to learn Hindi by the mere existence of the sign, then any sign in any part of India with English on it is also "English imposition" on a country with, according to the 2001 census, only ~12 % people who can speak English. 

(Logically, for example in Gujarat where less than 50% of the population speaks Hindi or English, a monolingual Gujarati can say they are getting English and/or Hindi imposed on them by signs they will never have to read.)

 

2) If Kannadigas can say essentially don't even travel to Karnataka unless you know either Kannada or English, as we don't wan't basic infrastructure signs to have any languages on them except for those 2, then  Delhites can say, don't travel to Delhi unless you know Hindi, as we don't want any English on our signs here. Having English on our signs is English imposition.  

(Literally every state can say we want only languages x,y,z as having languages a, b, c on a sign is imposition.)

 

3) If tomorrow Raj Thackrey decides to behave like the group of people in Karnataka who are vandalizing metro signs with English on it,  with Thackrey's language activists leaving only Marathi and Hindi on the signs, (1 state language, and 1 official government language), will you tell all the Tamil people who visit Maharashtra, especially Mumbai, Thackrey's backyard, to learn Hindi/Marathi if they want to go there? 

(After all, if Kannadigas can do it, Marathis can as well right?)

 

4) If the installation of trilingual signs in Karnataka is an example of Hindi imposition, first by the INC government in 2011 and then BJP in 2017, then every instance of English or Hindi signs in Punjab is also an example of Hindi/English imposition.  

 

Now to some of the accusations of Hindi imposition from earlier:

 

5) The Tamil Nadu 2014 case where

Quote

Chief Minister Jayalalithaa cautioned that this direction may "cause disquiet to the people of Tamil Nadu who are very proud of and passionate about their linguistic heritage," and asked the Prime Minister of India to suitably modify the instructions to ensure that English was the language of communication on social media.[

So, the NDA Home Ministry stating that Hindi should be given preference on official handles is Hindi imposition, despite the fact that the Home ministry also said that they should try to correspond in English as well, but the TN CM saying that all communication on social media should be in English isn't English imposition? 

 

I agree the Home Ministry should have said to do it in both official government languages, but how can anyone give Jaya a pass for insisting on English here? Again, with the 2001 census, ~53% of Indians understand Hindi as a language and only ~12% understand English. How in the world is it not language chauvinism to cater to a 12 percent minority, when the maximum amount of Indians would be reached by the language the Home Ministry advised? Are the 12% English speakers special because certain people in TN threaten to agitate on anti-Hindi platforms? 

 

6) The 2006 Karnataka case where  

Quote

 In 2006, an "Anti Hindi-imposition conference" was held in Bangalore on 14 September, which is celebrated as Hindi Divas ("Hindi Day") in Indian central government institutions. The aim of the conference was to discuss plans for countering the imposition of Hindi on Kannadigas and the central government's Rajbhasha policy.[6] [7].

So, an anti-Hindi conference is held simply because central government offices are celebrating an official state language. Literally no one outside the offices has to even celebrate Hindi, just ignore it, but some activists cry Hindi imposition. I didn't even know there was a day to celebrate Hindi. 

Would these activist types feel the same way if Bengalis demand that the Indian government remove all celebrations of the 6 classical languages because arguably the most famous Indian poet of the pre/post Independence era is Tagore and therefore Bengali should be celebrated, otherwise it is Sanskrit/Kannada/Tamil/Telugu/Odia /Malayalam imposition? 

 

7) 2015 "Hindi Imposition" over the PM's Independence Day Speech. 

 

So some activists have a problem with the PM giving a speech in Hindi and cry that he is imposing Hindi, but their insistence on him giving the speech in English isn't English imposition, despite less Indians overall speaking English?  Whatever language the PM gives a speech in will leave out a massive chunk of the population from understanding. Is this really imposition or just the realities of being in a multi-lingual country? If anything, the PM should've given the speech in Gujarati, his mother tongue. 

 

Edited by Tibarn

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8 hours ago, sourab10forever said:

So is Kannada and other 21 languages.

 

I think he is referring to Hindi as one of the two official union govt languages 

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http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bengaluru/is-kannada-identity-siddaramaiahaposs-new-political-weapon-to-counter-the-bjp/articleshow/59656054.cms

 

Quote

Is ‘Kannada’ identity Siddaramaiah's new political weapon to counter the BJP?

Quote

Political trackers maintained that there has been a radical shift in Siddaramaiah's strategy on the Kannada turf as he feels that promoting and protecting parochial interests could be a political game-changer. Moreover, if PM Narendra Modi can invoke the Gujarati pride to win polls, Congress activists feel there is no harm in Siddaramaiah working on the Kannadiga pride.He drove the message into the bureaucracy first by announcing: "All officers working in Karnataka should learn Kannada and officiate in Kannada. We will not tolerate any official who is against Kannada and against the interests of Kannadigas." This warning from Siddaramaiah, which came in the backdrop of an IAS officer's refusal to see a file in Kannada, won him appreciation from state's rural population (61.33% of the total).

 


``It might touch an emotional chord as those in the villages speak Kannada. But it is unlikely to become a vote bank issue,'' said Kannada university vice-chancellor Mallika Ganti.


However, unlike in the past, Siddaramaiah is now playing the Kannada card with dexterous diplomacy. A pointer to this is the recent controversy over Hindi signages in Metro stations.He allowed for the protests to happen; the defaced signboards in a couple of stations stay but the CM chose not to go overboard and did not seek their removal altogether. The reason being a majority of the districts in north Karnataka speak Hindi apart from Kannada.

 

 

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dont see the big issue on the flag front.

 

Let every state have their flag.

 

As far as namma metro goes. I think the three lang formula is fine.

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Quote

Hariprasad said the reason he insisted on the protection of Tulu and Kodava was because of a tendency on the part of the government to impose Hindi in south India where most of the people don’t even know the language. Only 4% people in Karnataka knew Hindi, he asserted.

 

"In the entire south India, the money order form is in English and Hindi; go to any bank, the challans are in English and Hindi; go to any Central government offices in the southern parts of the country, they are using only the two languages, Hindi and English. If you believe in three languages, the local languages such as Tamil, Kannada, Telugu or Malayalam should be there,” the Congress leader from Karnataka said. 

 

Several MPs supported his view and asked the Centre not to impose Hindi on those whose mother tongue is different. - See more at: http://m.deccanherald.com/index.php?url=/content/624045/will-not-impose-hindi-dont.html&secid=8#sthash.1VlPIY0q.dpufhttp://m.deccanherald.com/index.php?url=/content/624045/will-not-impose-hindi-dont.html&secid=8

 

 

 

 

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This will happen more in other states. Centre should stop thinking of using language as a national integrator. In india it cant be. Separate flag is illegal but Hindi can not be imposed in Karnataka, learn Kannada if you live in Bangalore its pretty easy.

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Hindi is one of the official languages in India nothing special about it. Folks from bimaru can speak it while south indians will speak south indian languages. Big deal. Integrate nation in other areas.

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4 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

 

 

 

 

 

Thats just BS.

 

Marathi and Konkani which have significant speakers in Northern Karnataka in regions bordering Goa and Maharashtra are both written in the devnagri script just like Hindi. Its easily more than 4%. 

 

And speaking about the controversy with namma metro. The names were in Devnagri which the marathi speakers who have been living for hundreds of years within the boundaries of current karnataka speak. 

 

So who is imposing Kannada on these people? I have been to Belgaum (home of the Maratha light infantry) and the Karnataka government is the first one to snuff out Marathi as a language.

 

Practice what you preach on the imposition front.

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On 7/19/2017 at 3:03 PM, Tibarn said:

It looks like the Lizard is spreading misinformation again. The national language project isn't something started by BJP. The BJP simply adopted the position of Sardar Patel/Sarvarkar on Hindi being the national language. They didn't invent the whole process. 

 

The national language project was started by the Indian National Congress at the time of Independence itself.

 

Gandhi on national language

gandhi nehru urdu2

 

Nehru, Azad, and Netaji's positions on national language. 

Screenshot_1.png 

 

Different positions on national language by people of the independence era by Gandhi, Nehru, Patel, Netaji, Maulana Azad, Sarvarkar, and Ambedkar. 

 

 

Lying Lizard :phehe:

 

 

Also lol at Idea of India chutiyapa. So some of these people wanting to force English on non-English speakers is Idea of India kosher(English imposition), but the other way around is Hindi Imposition and not acceptable under Idea of India.  :rofl: 

 

Languages are dying in India regardless of if there is "Hindi imposition" via signboards.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/karnataka/10-languages-in-karnataka-endangered/article4978614.ece

Languages become endangered because people stop using them. They are either not taught by their parents or not taught in school. Unless you want to say that there is Kannada imposition that is killing the other languages in Karnataka.  :bumsmack:

 

Not supporting a single national language is cool, I can agree with that,  but what is this idiocy of protesting over sign-boards having a language that you don't understand on it? Most Gujaratis, particularly rural types,  don't understand either Hindi or English, let alone are able to read the scripts, so should they suddenly protest over all the sign boards in Gujarat with those languages on it, say everyone who doesn't know Gujarati should leave Gujarat, and say you must learn Gujarati if you want to come here. Will that be Idea of India Kosher? :facepalm:

 

Bloody hell, your language is strong enough to not be threatened by a dumb signboard. 

 

 

 

 

 

its just a Dumb signboard right, why have it in Hindi ( a not special one of the official languages of the union), let them have it in Kannada and English..why should we care.

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9 hours ago, G_B_ said:

Thats just BS.

 

Marathi and Konkani which have significant speakers in Northern Karnataka in regions bordering Goa and Maharashtra are both written in the devnagri script just like Hindi. Its easily more than 4%. 

 

And speaking about the controversy with namma metro. The names were in Devnagri which the marathi speakers who have been living for hundreds of years within the boundaries of current karnataka speak. 

 

So who is imposing Kannada on these people? I have been to Belgaum (home of the Maratha light infantry) and the Karnataka government is the first one to snuff out Marathi as a language.

 

Practice what you preach on the imposition front.

ok so you want to impose Hindi on Karnataka but want Karnataka to not rto impose Kannada on Marathi speaking minorities  ?

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Hindi/Kannada/English are all official languages..there are 19 others as states within the union can recognize their own official languages.

So best to learn Kannada before coming to Karnataka. or atleast English dont insist on Hindi, as you have an equal right to insist on Hindi as a local has on insisting Kannada.

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On 7/18/2017 at 9:13 PM, rageaddict said:

One Kannadiga gave an explanation to me that " Will they accept Kannadiga in Delhi Metro,  then why should we accept Hindi in Bangalore Metro?  "

 

Bunch of retards who think that there regional languages are on par with Hindi. 

Hindi is a regional language too, pretty primitive and limited in utility at that. Learn English or better south Indian languages if you want to live and work in south India.

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The point is if you are the person imposing your language. How exactly are you in a position tell a bigger entity not to impose their language?

 

Goa has konkani as it's first language yet have never clamped down on Marathi

 

 

Take namma metro. The station names were proper nouns which meant they were literally the same in Hindi and Marathi. Are you saying the Karnataka is denying the rights of the largest linguistic minority in the state?

 

Don't the people of dakshina Karnataka realise there are speakers of other languages who have historically lived in the state for centuries in the north of the state? Where is the unity in diversity argument within the state?

 

Plenty of RSS heads like Hegde hailed from this region. Narsimnha Rao was a fluent Marathi speaker. Karnataka and Telangana cannot do linguistic politics. They are just not linguistically homogenous enough.

 

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1 minute ago, G_B_ said:

The point is if you are the person imposing your language. How exactly are you in a position tell a bigger entity not to impose their language?

 

Goa has konkani as it's first language yet have never clamped down on Marathi

 

 

Take namma metro. The station names were proper nouns which meant they were literally the same in Hindi and Marathi. Are you saying the Karnataka is denying the rights of the largest linguistic minority in the state?

 

Don't the people of dakshina Karnataka realise there are speakers of other languages who have historically lived in the state for centuries in the north of the state? Where is the unity in diversity argument within the state?

 

Plenty of RSS heads like Hegde hailed from this region. Narsimnha Rao was a fluent Marathi speaker. Karnataka and Telangana cannot do linguistic politics. They are just not linguistically homogenous enough.

 

Sent from my Wileyfox Swift using Tapatalk

 

 

the point is if you are the person supporting imposition of a larger agglomeration of tribal's language on a smaller entity of statehood. How exactly are you in a position tell a smaller entity of statehood not to impose their language on a even smaller one?

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Not much of a problem here in Telangana. For a dialect with decent influence of urdu, we are not bothered I guess about "imposition" of hindi in our state.

 

But if an average north Indian living in Telangana expects everyone to converse with them in hindi deserve a smack under their ear to get them back to reality.

 

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk

 

 

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2 hours ago, Vilander said:

the point is if you are the person supporting imposition of a larger agglomeration of tribal's language on a smaller entity of statehood. How exactly are you in a position tell a smaller entity of statehood not to impose their language on a even smaller one?

works both ways. If you are a person opposing hindi imposition and then go on to impose your own language in your state when there are historic linguistic minorities in your state, that makes you a hypocrite.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Vilander said:

Hindi/Kannada/English are all official languages..there are 19 others as states within the union can recognize their own official languages.

So best to learn Kannada before coming to Karnataka. or atleast English dont insist on Hindi, as you have an equal right to insist on Hindi as a local has on insisting Kannada.

Everyone knows what is official. Gujarati, Bengali, Rajasthani, Punjabi, etc., are all equally important and official languages too

 

The fact is that ppl in many states have made an effort to learn Hindi, which is one of the two official union govt languages, and use it as linga franca. The effort has been made to avoid learning Bengali when we go to Bengal, Gujarati when we go to Gujarat, and Kannada when we go to Kannada

 

The idea of promoting Hindi is that one does not have to learn all the languages spoken in Ind. It is impractical. On the other hand, states can easily display the linga franca. There should be no problems in having signs in 3 languages, if not more 

 

The comparision of Hindi, a linga franca, and Kannada, one of many regional languages, is not apples to apples

 

PS As has been pointed out, Karanataka itself has linguistic minorities on whom Kanada is probably shoved down their throats. Since you appear to support English, may be the first step in Karnataka should be to make English as the state's only official language. In that way, all regional languages including Kannada in Karnataka can be on equal footing as everyone would be using the "neutral" English, which was imposed on Ind by the British. Let's start by first having all signs in Karnataka in English only

Edited by zen

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7 hours ago, G_B_ said:

The point is if you are the person imposing your language. How exactly are you in a position tell a bigger entity not to impose their language?

 

Goa has konkani as it's first language yet have never clamped down on Marathi

 

 

Take namma metro. The station names were proper nouns which meant they were literally the same in Hindi and Marathi. Are you saying the Karnataka is denying the rights of the largest linguistic minority in the state?

 

Don't the people of dakshina Karnataka realise there are speakers of other languages who have historically lived in the state for centuries in the north of the state? Where is the unity in diversity argument within the state?

 

Plenty of RSS heads like Hegde hailed from this region. Narsimnha Rao was a fluent Marathi speaker. Karnataka and Telangana cannot do linguistic politics. They are just not linguistically homogenous enough.

 

Sent from my Wileyfox Swift using Tapatalk

 

 

I come from DK , technically not even a Kannadiga with tulu being my mother tongue , forget imposition its the other way around . if you stay in Mangalore for 2-3 years we will make sure you learn Tulu lol . I have Nepali friends we who can still understand Tulu . Kannada still has a special place , may be cos it was never forced upon us ?  

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2 hours ago, zen said:

Everyone knows what is official. Gujarati, Bengali, Rajasthani, Punjabi, etc., are all equally important and official languages too

 

The fact is that ppl in many states have made an effort to learn Hindi, which is one of the two official union govt languages, and use it as linga franca. The effort has been made to avoid learning Bengali when we go to Bengal, Gujarati when we go to Gujarat, and Kannada when we go to Kannada

 

The idea of promoting Hindi is that one does not have to learn all the languages spoken in Ind. It is impractical. On the other hand, states can easily display the linga franca. There should be no problems in having signs in 3 languages, if not more 

 

The comparision of Hindi, a linga franca, and Kannada, one of many regional languages, is not apples to apples

 

PS As has been pointed out, Karanataka itself has linguistic minorities on whom Kanada is probably shoved down their throats. Since you appear to support English, may be the first step in Karnataka should be to make English as the state's only official language. In that way, all regional languages including Kannada in Karnataka can be on equal footing as everyone would be using the "neutral" English, which was imposed on Ind by the British. Let's start by first having all signs in Karnataka in English only

 

lol what rubbish .

Two districts where you can claim Kannada is not majority , Coorg and Mangalore/DK .  Even Kannadigas who make up more than 30% of the population speak in Tulu/coorgie rather than Kannada . Exactly how it should be and no wonder there is mutual respect for all languages . 

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15 minutes ago, jusarrived said:

 

lol what rubbish .

Two districts where you can claim Kannada is not majority , Coorg and Mangalore/DK .  Even Kannadigas who make up more than 30% of the population speak in Tulu/coorgie rather than Kannada . Exactly how it should be and no wonder there is mutual respect for all languages . 

The follow up question would be: Since Kannadigas respect Tulu/Coorgie in Mangalore, including speaking the language, are the sign below in Tulu/Coorgie in that area:

 

ksrtc12sep14%204.JPG

 

 

Malkassignboard.JPG

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Vilander said:

its just a Dumb signboard right, why have it in Hindi ( a not special one of the official languages of the union), let them have it in Kannada and English..why should we care.

I do think it's a dumb signboard, but it isn't me making it an issue. If someone is going to cry that a signboard using both official languages of the Indian government is Hindi imposition in Karnataka, then the onus is on them to say why it should be changed, or it is on them to drop the issue. 

 

If Karnataka is allowed to dictate which official government languages are allowed on infrastructure, based on the actions of a few people, then every state should be allowed to do the same no?

 

The overall point is that the official languages of the central government are Hindi and English. Neither language is spoken by everyone in India, and many people in India speak neither, but, as they are both official languages, any official government communications should have both on them on it. Otherwise, if you don't think they should have both, then every state should be allowed to pick which official language is allowed on infrastructure in the state.  Do you disagree?

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9 minutes ago, Tibarn said:

I do think it's a dumb signboard, but it isn't me making it an issue. If someone is going to cry that a signboard using both official languages of the Indian government is Hindi imposition in Karnataka, then the onus is on them to say why it should be changed, or it is on them to drop the issue. 

 

If Karnataka is allowed to dictate which official government languages are allowed on infrastructure, based on the actions of a few people, then every state should be allowed to do the same no?

 

The overall point is that the official languages of the central government are Hindi and English. Neither language is spoken by everyone in India, and many people in India speak neither, but, as they are both official languages, any official government communications should have both on them on it. Otherwise, if you don't think they should have both, then every state should be allowed to pick which official language is allowed on infrastructure in the state.  Do you disagree?

Official comunication should be in English and one of the other official langages. In BIMARU it can be Hindi, in other states it should be based on their preference,Hindi should not be imposed. Do you agree ?

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8 hours ago, nikred said:

Not much of a problem here in Telangana. For a dialect with decent influence of urdu, we are not bothered I guess about "imposition" of hindi in our state.

 

But if an average north Indian living in Telangana expects everyone to converse with them in hindi deserve a smack under their ear to get them back to reality.

 

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk

 

 

how dare you consider your regional languge to be on par with worlds greatest language, the gift of mankind and anglekind and pigkind alike Hindi.

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1 hour ago, zen said:

The follow up question would be: Since Kannadigas respect Tulu/Coorgie in Mangalore, including speaking the language, are the sign below in Tulu/Coorgie in that area:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thoda research karne ka na yaar .

Those sign boards could be coorgie , tulu or Kannada , cos all of them use the same script ;) 

The second one you posted is actually Malyalam and thats not Karnataka , but kerala :)

 

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1 hour ago, Vilander said:

Official comunication should be in English and one of the other official langages. In BIMARU it can be Hindi, in other states it should be based on their preference,Hindi should not be imposed. Do you agree ?

There are only 2 official languages in India for communication by the central government: Hindi and English.

 

Gujarati, Tamil, Marathi, et al are not official central government languages for communication. The latter languages are also official languages, but only in terms of they have equal status in importance as Hindi/English. They aren't used for communication by the central government, although state governments can choose them as official languages for communication within the state on state government communications. 

 

Thus if we look at the signboards in question, they have Kannada, English, and Hindi on them. The Kannada language is the official language of the Karnataka government, and English/Hindi, are the two languages designated by the center for communication. 

 

If Karnataka is allowed to use their official state language and pick only 1 of 2 languages of the Center, then the equivalent would be, say Punjab, where they can communicate on signs with Punjabi and choose either English or Hindi, I don't mind that. There just has to be a consistent standard across states. My state, Gujarat, can't be required to have both Hindi and English on every signboard, but Karnataka gets a choice on which official languages they get on signboards.    

Edited by Tibarn

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53 minutes ago, jusarrived said:

Thoda research karne ka na yaar .

Those sign boards could be coorgie , tulu or Kannada , cos all of them use the same script ;) 

The second one you posted is actually Malyalam and thats not Karnataka , but kerala :)

 

Having the same (or similar?) script does not tell me much. For e.g. Boot in German means boat, while wand means wall 

 

Anyways, from wiki:

 

a) Kannada in Karnataka

 

Kannada is the official language of Karnataka and spoken as a native language by about 66.26% of the people as of 2001. Other linguistic minorities in the state were Urdu (10.54%), Telugu (7.03%), Tamil (3.57%), Marathi (3.6%), Tulu (3.0%), Hindi (2.56%), Konkani (1.46%), Malayalam (1.33%) and Kodava Takk (0.3%).[54] 

 

 

 

b) Hindi in Ind

 

Languages_in_Ind_072317.jpg

 

 

Much like Kannada is seen as linga frana in Karnataka, Hindi is seen as linga franca in Ind 

Edited by zen

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Demand for Tulu Land in Karnataka :dontknow:

 

 

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/578876/demand-tulu-state-gets-louder.html 

 

 

"Demanding separate Tulu statehood, members of various organisations unfurled the Tulu Nadu flag on Karnataka Rajyotsava at several places in Uppinangady. The red colour flag with the sun and the moon on it was unfurled." 

 

 

250px-Map_of_South_Canara_district_in_19

 

 

IMG-20151102-WA0009.jpg

 

 

 

IMG-20151102-WA0003.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by zen

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signboard is a minor issue in front of a major boiling point. If we have some regulation on jobs for local people ..reqs like knowing gibberishdi is a must ..and messages for immgrants to learn kannada to communicate with locals, I think we can leave politicians behind and resolve issues like signboards. I would rather have 7 or 8 lang signboards..kannada, urdu, telugu, marathi, tamil, tulu and Bhindi. in order of percentages of ppl speaking these langs.

 

No condescending sermons like knowing hindi will unite India and make it a patriotic thing, no thanks, we can feel India through a local lens.

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Strictly speaking flag, I don't have a problem with that. Actually all Indian states should have their own flags. Most states have their own "days" as such. Maharashtra Day, Telangana Day, etc. Flag could come in handy as a symbol of state pride.

 

Now, coming to this uber long discussion on the Hindi language and so called "imposition" of this language, here's what I don't get.

 

Maharashtra has Marathi as its native languages, Maharashtrians are proud of their language and their heritage, yet they have accepted Hindi as the national language and are happy to have it as the 3rd language that enables communication with majority of Indians. Ditto for Gujarat, West Bengal, Rajasthan, Punjab and all states except for Tamil Nadu and Karnataka. Why do these states consider Hindi as some kind of "threat" to their language? You believe your language heritage is so poor that Hindi will overshadow your native language?

 

All other states happily accept both their native language as well as the national language, then what is wrong with these two states? The thing is - this is nothing but petty politics to overshadow more real issues that the governments of these states can't solve and hence, they try to influence their voters by bringing about this divide. 

 

So, keep feeding your politicians and they will keep telling you about how Hindi "imposition" is bad for you. Fact is that many Tamils and Kannadigas also work outside their states in other Indian states and benefit from a common connect with other Indians who know Hindi.

 

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20 minutes ago, Texan said:

Strictly speaking flag, I don't have a problem with that. Actually all Indian states should have their own flags. Most states have their own "days" as such. Maharashtra Day, Telangana Day, etc. Flag could come in handy as a symbol of state pride.

 

Now, coming to this uber long discussion on the Hindi language and so called "imposition" of this language, here's what I don't get.

 

Maharashtra has Marathi as its native languages, Maharashtrians are proud of their language and their heritage, yet they have accepted Hindi as the national language and are happy to have it as the 3rd language that enables communication with majority of Indians. Ditto for Gujarat, West Bengal, Rajasthan, Punjab and all states except for Tamil Nadu and Karnataka. Why do these states consider Hindi as some kind of "threat" to their language? You believe your language heritage is so poor that Hindi will overshadow your native language?

 

All other states happily accept both their native language as well as the national language, then what is wrong with these two states? The thing is - this is nothing but petty politics to overshadow more real issues that the governments of these states can't solve and hence, they try to influence their voters by bringing about this divide. 

 

So, keep feeding your politicians and they will keep telling you about how Hindi "imposition" is bad for you. Fact is that many Tamils and Kannadigas also work outside their states in other Indian states and benefit from a common connect with other Indians who know Hindi.

Agree,  just goes to show how insecure these people are. Cosmopolitan cities are supposed to be melting pot of different cultures and not a monopoly of anyone. Mumbai is one such place which is far ahead  of these newly emerging semi - developed cities like Bangalore who are having their first taste of mass -migration and cultural changes. The locals in Mumbai don't feel insecure over why the Biharis,  Gujratis, Punjabi's and  South Indians aren't communicating in their Superior Marathi Language. The migrants are not under any obligation to preserve the legacy and dominance of Marathi from fading away. It's absolutely normal to have no knowledge of Marathi and survive in the city for decades without any issue. These people want to have the best of both worlds, they expect their cities to be World Class ( Which will obviously attract migrants from other states ) and at the same time expect to maintain their cultural supremacy over the region like it used to be 500 years ago . That's simply impossible and unacceptable. Also,  its very fashionable to play the victim card over Secularism, Religious Discrimination , Casteism these days,  Hindi imposition is the latest fad. Some of these folks are no different to the Mullahs who get all charged up over the " Islam Khatre main hai " rhetoric and suffer from paranoia about how there is a conspiracy against them.

 

All said and done,  the Politician's and the Indian Union doesn't even have to rely on some lame signboards to " impose " Hindi . The Widespread influence of Hindi in Films,  Media and the fact that around 60 % of the Indian Population can speak / read in Hindi will make sure that the language continues to grow. 

 

Change might be painful but inevitable in the case . I feel sorry for the guys who think there their empty threats and useless rhetoric will lead to conservation of their culture. 

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3 hours ago, Texan said:

Strictly speaking flag, I don't have a problem with that. Actually all Indian states should have their own flags. Most states have their own "days" as such. Maharashtra Day, Telangana Day, etc. Flag could come in handy as a symbol of state pride.

 

Now, coming to this uber long discussion on the Hindi language and so called "imposition" of this language, here's what I don't get.

 

Maharashtra has Marathi as its native languages, Maharashtrians are proud of their language and their heritage, yet they have accepted Hindi as the national language and are happy to have it as the 3rd language that enables communication with majority of Indians. Ditto for Gujarat, West Bengal, Rajasthan, Punjab and all states except for Tamil Nadu and Karnataka. Why do these states consider Hindi as some kind of "threat" to their language? You believe your language heritage is so poor that Hindi will overshadow your native language?

 

All other states happily accept both their native language as well as the national language, then what is wrong with these two states? The thing is - this is nothing but petty politics to overshadow more real issues that the governments of these states can't solve and hence, they try to influence their voters by bringing about this divide. 

 

So, keep feeding your politicians and they will keep telling you about how Hindi "imposition" is bad for you. Fact is that many Tamils and Kannadigas also work outside their states in other Indian states and benefit from a common connect with other Indians who know Hindi.

 

Script. Your language uses Hindi devanagari script right. South Indian languages use vattaezhuthu script. Accept differences and don't create unnecessary differences.

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14 hours ago, Tibarn said:

There are only 2 official languages in India for communication by the central government: Hindi and English.

 

Gujarati, Tamil, Marathi, et al are not official central government languages for communication. The latter languages are also official languages, but only in terms of they have equal status in importance as Hindi/English. They aren't used for communication by the central government, although state governments can choose them as official languages for communication within the state on state government communications. 

 

Thus if we look at the signboards in question, they have Kannada, English, and Hindi on them. The Kannada language is the official language of the Karnataka government, and English/Hindi, are the two languages designated by the center for communication. 

 

If Karnataka is allowed to use their official state language and pick only 1 of 2 languages of the Center, then the equivalent would be, say Punjab, where they can communicate on signs with Punjabi and choose either English or Hindi, I don't mind that. There just has to be a consistent standard across states. My state, Gujarat, can't be required to have both Hindi and English on every signboard, but Karnataka gets a choice on which official languages they get on signboards.    

Yup English is official and then a local language. Hindi is for use in bimaru. Sorry

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@zen You keep saying Hindi is the linga franca.

 

Freudian Slip? :p:

 

Why does India need a lingua franca? We have done well so far without one.

 

I'm no expert on history, but the two states that I remember that tried to force/forced a dominant language on others were fragmented.

Pakistan when it tried to impose Urdu on Bangladesh.

And the USSR imposed Russians in all areas of the Soviet Union.

While language may not be the only reason in the fragmentation of these nations, it did add to the local resentment.

 

PS: As an aside, how many of you who want to have Hindi as the lingua franca even read Hindi newspapers/contemporary literature/novels etc?

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