zen Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 5 minutes ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said: It may be perfect for you. You love the word motherland also. It will help propagate that word. Give it a shot and see how it feels. share your experience. then will think about it. My point was much deeper than that. Refer to the original post of this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haarkarjeetgaye Posted July 19, 2017 Author Share Posted July 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, zen said: My point was much deeper than that. Refer to the original post of this thread as long as you are ok with me not comfortable with using the word mata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 1 minute ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said: as long as you are ok with me not comfortable with using the word mata If you are not an Indian, you don't need to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haarkarjeetgaye Posted July 19, 2017 Author Share Posted July 19, 2017 Just now, zen said: If you are not an Indian, you don't need to I am. Now what if I want to say Jai Hind or Bharat ki jai instead. I find it offensive to use the word Mata. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said: I am. Now what if I want to say Jai Hind or Bharat ki jai instead. I find it offensive to use the word Mata. Vande Mataram is the national song of India so you have no choice: Vande Mataram (IAST: Vande Mātaram, Bengali: বন্দে মাতরম্, Devanagari: वन्दे मातरम्) is a poem composed by Bankim Chandra Chattopadhyay in 1870s, which he included in his 1881 novel Anandamath.[1] The first two verses of the song were adopted as the national song of India in 1947 when India became independent though it had inspired independence movement for the past five decades.[2][3] It played a vital role in the Indian independence movement, first sung in a political context by Rabindranath Tagore at the 1896 session of the Indian National Congress.[3] It became a popular marching song for political activism and Indian freedom movement in 1905.[1]Spiritual Indian nationalist and philosopher Sri Aurobindo referred it as "National Anthem of Bengal".[8] The song and the novel containing it was banned by the British government, but workers and general public defied the ban, many went to colonial prisons repeatedly for singing it, and the ban was overturned by the Indians after they gained independence from the colonial rule.[9][10] In 1950 (after India's independence), the song's first two verses of the song were declared the "national song" of the Republic of India, distinct from the national anthem of India, Jana Gana Mana. The first two verses of the song are an abstract reference to mother and motherland .... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vande_Mataram Edited July 19, 2017 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haarkarjeetgaye Posted July 19, 2017 Author Share Posted July 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, zen said: Vande Mataram is the national song of India so you have no choice: Vande Mataram (IAST: Vande Mātaram, Bengali: বন্দে মাতরম্, Devanagari: वन्दे मातरम्) is a poem composed by Bankim Chandra Chattopadhyay in 1870s, which he included in his 1881 novel Anandamath.[1] The first two verses of the song were adopted as the national song of India in 1947 when India became independent though it had inspired independence movement for the past five decades.[2][3] It played a vital role in the Indian independence movement, first sung in a political context by Rabindranath Tagore at the 1896 session of the Indian National Congress.[3] It became a popular marching song for political activism and Indian freedom movement in 1905.[1]Spiritual Indian nationalist and philosopher Sri Aurobindo referred it as "National Anthem of Bengal".[8] The song and the novel containing it was banned by the British government, but workers and general public defied the ban, many went to colonial prisons repeatedly for singing it, and the ban was overturned by the Indians after they gained independence from the colonial rule.[9][10] In 1950 (after India's independence), the song's first two verses of the song were declared the "national song" of the Republic of India, distinct from the national anthem of India, Jana Gana Mana. The first two verses of the song are an abstract reference to mother and motherland, they do not mention any Hindu deity by name, unlike later verses that do explicitly mention goddesses such as Durga.[11][12] There is no time limit or circumstantial specification for the rendition of this song [unlike the national anthem Jana Gana Mana that specifies 52 seconds] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vande_Mataram I am very happy to say Vande Mataram. It means I bow to my mother. The verses do not mean Bharat mata ki jai. Even then where does it say that one will be forced to sing the national song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said: I am very happy to say Vande Mataram. It means I bow to my mother. The verses do not mean Bharat mata ki jai. Even then where does it say that one will be forced to sing the national song. As we know, Vande Mataram refers to bowing to motherland Bharat. Bharat Mata ki jai refers to hailing the motherland You have to respect the song. So when someone says "Vande Mataram", you reply in kind. Same with "Bharat Mata Ki Jai". It is not about what we prefer but respecting the nation Edited July 19, 2017 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haarkarjeetgaye Posted July 19, 2017 Author Share Posted July 19, 2017 14 minutes ago, zen said: As we know, Vande Mataram refers to bowing to motherland Bharat. Bharat Mata ki jai refers to hailing the motherland You have to respect the song. So when someone says "Vande Mataram", you reply in kind. Same with "Bharat Mata Ki Jai". It is not about what we prefer but respecting the nation You mean saying Bharat Mata ki jai means respecting the nation, but beating lynching, abusing, name calling a bharat ka citizen is not demeaning the nation. Thats your thinking. Here is what Vande Mataram means. It has been conveniently interpreted as motherland. It only means I praise thee, Mother. I ask you which law states that Vande Mataram has to be said or Bharat Mata ki jai has to be said. Has the court of law passed any judgement like National anthem before the movies. An Ode to Durga as the Mother goddess, it was written in Sanskrit but printed in Bengali script in the Bengali novel Anandmath.[4] The title 'Vande Mataram' literally means "I praise thee, Mother" or "I bow to thee, Mother".[1][5] The "mother goddess" in later verses of the song has been interpreted as the motherland of the people - Bangamata (Mother Bengal) and Bharat Mata (Mother India),[6][7] though the text does not mention this explicitly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said: You mean saying Bharat Mata ki jai means respecting the nation, but beating lynching, abusing, name calling a bharat ka citizen is not demeaning the nation. Thats your thinking. Here is what Vande Mataram means. It has been conveniently interpreted as motherland. It only means I praise thee, Mother. I ask you which law states that Vande Mataram has to be said or Bharat Mata ki jai has to be said. Has the court of law passed any judgement like National anthem before the movies. An Ode to Durga as the Mother goddess, it was written in Sanskrit but printed in Bengali script in the Bengali novel Anandmath.[4] The title 'Vande Mataram' literally means "I praise thee, Mother" or "I bow to thee, Mother".[1][5] The "mother goddess" in later verses of the song has been interpreted as the motherland of the people - Bangamata (Mother Bengal) and Bharat Mata (Mother India),[6][7] though the text does not mention this explicitly. Why would you waste time to use such comical logic? Using your logic, punishing a theif for stealing would be a bigger crime than the theif stealing something There has to be discipline, which Ind lacks. And the arguments that you present reflect that indiscipline where doing almost anything is justified in the name of whatever Your comment on Vande Matram is hilarious. The word itself tells its meaning. It is not interpreted but adapted to represent Ind as the motherland. And that is why it is the national song, and not a Mother's Day song Bharat Mata is related to Ind's fight for its independence. Show some respect Please do some research else you are at a risk of sounding ignorant. Note that anyone can type random stuff. Typing random stuff is not equal to discussing or debating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haarkarjeetgaye Posted July 19, 2017 Author Share Posted July 19, 2017 48 minutes ago, zen said: Why would you waste time to use such comical logic? Using your logic, punishing a theif for stealing would be a bigger crime than the theif stealing something There has to be discipline, which Ind lacks. And the arguments that you present reflect that indiscipline where doing almost anything is justified in the name of whatever Your comment on Vande Matram is hilarious. The word itself tells its meaning. It is not interpreted but adapted to represent Ind as the motherland. And that is why it is the national song, and not a Mother's Day song Bharat Mata is related to Ind's fight for its independence. Show some respect Please do some research else you are at a risk of sounding ignorant. Note that anyone can type random stuff. Typing random stuff is not equal to discussing or debating All is fine but what if I don't want to say bharat mata ki jai and say bharat ki jai. Which law states that one has to say bharat mata ki jai. You brought vande Mataram into the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punjabi_khota Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) trolls be trollin yo. Edited July 19, 2017 by punjabi_khota Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 7 minutes ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said: All is fine but what if I don't want to say bharat mata ki jai and say bharat ki jai. Which law states that one has to say bharat mata ki jai. You brought vande Mataram into the discussion. What would be the need to cite laws for terms which have been used traditionally? Tomorrow, you may relieve yourself in public citing that which law states that I have to use the washrooms As I said, read the history about Bharat Mata association with Ind's fight for its independence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haarkarjeetgaye Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 25 minutes ago, zen said: What would be the need to cite laws for terms which have been used traditionally? Tomorrow, you may relieve yourself in public citing that which law states that I have to use the washrooms As I said, read the history about Bharat Mata association with Ind's fight for its independence to force someone, there has to be a law. If there are no penalties for relieving in public, it is wrong, although it may be an ancient tradition. Share the history of Bharat Mata's association with India's fight for independence. I will read. But you agree there isnt a law which forces people to say Bharat Mata ki jai. we agree on that i hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 18 minutes ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said: to force someone, there has to be a law. If there are no penalties for relieving in public, it is wrong, although it may be an ancient tradition. Share the history of Bharat Mata's association with India's fight for independence. I will read. But you agree there isnt a law which forces people to say Bharat Mata ki jai. we agree on that i hope. My point is that there is no need for such laws. Do you need laws asking you to respect your parents? Normally, I would suggest googling but since we have had a relatively long exchange: The image of Bhāratmātā formed with the Indian independence movement of the late 19th century. A play by Kiran Chandra Bannerjee, Bhārat Mātā, was first performed in 1873. The play set in 1770 Bengal famine depicted a woman and her husband who went to forest and encounters rebels. The priest takes them to temple where they were shown Bharat Mata. Thus they are inspired and led rebellion which result in defeat of the British. [3] The Manushi magazine story traces origin to a satirical work Unabimsa Purana or The Nineteenth Purana by Bhudeb Mukhopadhyay which was first published anonymously in 1866.[4] Bankim Chandra Chattopadhyay in 1882 wrote a novel Anandamath. introduced the hymn "Vande Mātaram",[5][6] which soon became the song of the emerging freedom movement in India. As the British Raj created cartographic shape of India through the Geological Survey of India, the Indian nationalist developed it into an icon of nationalism. In the 1920s, it became more political image sometimes including images of Mahatma Gandhi and Bhagat Singh. The Tiranga flag was also started being included during this period. The image of Bharatmata was an icon to create nationalist feeling in Indians during the freedom struggle. The motto Bharat Mata ki Jai’ ("Victory for Mother India") is used by the Indian Army.[ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haarkarjeetgaye Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, zen said: My point is that there is no need for such laws. Do you need laws asking you to respect your parents? Normally, I would suggest googling but since we have had a relatively long exchange: The image of Bhāratmātā formed with the Indian independence movement of the late 19th century. A play by Kiran Chandra Bannerjee, Bhārat Mātā, was first performed in 1873. The play set in 1770 Bengal famine depicted a woman and her husband who went to forest and encounters rebels. The priest takes them to temple where they were shown Bharat Mata. Thus they are inspired and led rebellion which result in defeat of the British. [3] The Manushi magazine story traces origin to a satirical work Unabimsa Purana or The Nineteenth Purana by Bhudeb Mukhopadhyay which was first published anonymously in 1866.[4] Bankim Chandra Chattopadhyay in 1882 wrote a novel Anandamath. introduced the hymn "Vande Mātaram",[5][6] which soon became the song of the emerging freedom movement in India. As the British Raj created cartographic shape of India through the Geological Survey of India, the Indian nationalist developed it into an icon of nationalism. In the 1920s, it became more political image sometimes including images of Mahatma Gandhi and Bhagat Singh. The Tiranga flag was also started being included during this period. The image of Bharatmata was an icon to create nationalist feeling in Indians during the freedom struggle. The motto Bharat Mata ki Jai’ ("Victory for Mother India") is used by the Indian Army.[ If there is no law, it cannot be enforced. That is how the law of the land works. If you need everyone to say Bharat Mata ki jai, you need a law. Otherwise no one has any right to force anyone. All this is good but why so significant to enforce it. Indian Army Motto is "Service Before Self". At best Bharat Mata ki jai is used as a war cry, not forced because every unit or regiment has their own war cry. sarvada shaktistali, jai maa kali, aaya gorkhali, jo bole so nihal, sat sri akal, raja ramchandra ki jai, bajrang bali ki jai, chatrapati shivaji maharaj ki jai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 13 minutes ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said: If there is no law, it cannot be enforced. That is how the law of the land works. If you need everyone to say Bharat Mata ki jai, you need a law. Otherwise no one has any right to force anyone. All this is good but why so significant to enforce it. Indian Army Motto is "Service Before Self". At best Bharat Mata ki jai is used as a war cry, not forced because every unit or regiment has their own war cry. sarvada shaktistali, jai maa kali, aaya gorkhali, jo bole so nihal, sat sri akal, raja ramchandra ki jai, bajrang bali ki jai, chatrapati shivaji maharaj ki jai. Asking for a law for that itself is criminal thought National anthem, songs, slogans should be receited at appropriate occassion by all patriotic citizen Ind is not a hotel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haarkarjeetgaye Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, zen said: Asking for a law for that itself is criminal thought National anthem, songs, slogans should be receited at appropriate occassion by all patriotic citizen Ind is not a hotel crime is defined by the law. not by any individuals thought. India is not a dictatorship. Even a hotel follows the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 8 minutes ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said: crime is defined by the law. not by any individuals thought. India is not a dictatorship. Even a hotel follows the law. It is implied that tradtional usage as created a law (it could be unwritten) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haarkarjeetgaye Posted July 20, 2017 Author Share Posted July 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, zen said: It is implied that tradtional usage as created a law (it could be unwritten) No my friend. It isnt like that. Think we have discussed enough. As long as there is no law, nobody is bound to follow it. Nobody can enforce it. You are free to believe otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Haarkarjeetgaye said: No my friend. It isnt like that. Think we have discussed enough. As long as there is no law, nobody is bound to follow it. Nobody can enforce it. You are free to believe otherwise. That is bad way of thinking that many in Ind are accustomed to Iirc, there is no law that states that ppl have to respect their parents. Traditionally people have and sane ppl will continue to do so whether there is law Ppl who break "understood" laws get slapped! Justice is delivered in one way or other Edited July 20, 2017 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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