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Will Kohli reach the success of Dhoni as Captain?


Shaz1

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5 hours ago, Khota said:

Plenty. He selects three useless players Ashwin, Yuvraj and Dhoni. Does not make changes as the situation demands. After SL game he should have known there are issues. Good batsman yes but a very egotistical person.

I mean aside from his selection is his onfield captaincy that bad?

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4 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

I Believe u asked me to post in english, well that also u cant read. Read the highlighted part CAN BE.....there is diff between can be and is 

 

Also read above all have same views

 

About the hard on, well looks like u had a thing for anushka who is currently dating Virat.....thats y u cant handle it and keep singing "Virat Haye haye "

 

D0A66K94.jpg

 

 

:phehe:

 

I love your guys rivalry its so funny.

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18 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

We all do prefer players who can perform in all condition. Thats y selection of some players get heavily criticised coz they ll score at home n when they step out they ll be like fish out of water.

 

Coming to his captaincy - this my personal opinion n i dnt come with agenda against anyone be it dhoni or kohli. People can disagree

Both his format captaincy of kohli wud actually be tested when he goes overseas and our attacking role of spinners wud have to be taken by fast bowlers. Kohli have been a terrific captain to fast bowlers , also his choice of horses for courses when it comes to fast bowling has been remarkable. If he sees pitch with grass, overcast condition he has gone for bhuvi, dry and rough surfaces he picks umesh who helps with pace n reverse. 

Also our test side is far settled then odi. Rahane, vijay, rahul, kohli, shami, umesh, ashwin are fixed. But i think the bench strength in loi is better n higher in number.

 He does make tactical error in test to. But the beauty of test cricket is it allows u to comeback despite errors and thats why many minniws despite having upper hand in some test against top test sides ends up loosing the test. Loi cricket doesnt give u much time and sometimes luck gambles become more important. 

 

Now , his captaincy in loi cricket has a small sample.size but whatever i have noticed - 

As i was talking about the gamble n luck factor, thats were u need ur intsincts to take over and ur on field judgement. Dhoni in 2007 wc t20 judged misbah was playing bhajji well and bhajji also was looking nerveous so he choose a bowlers with less nerves. Ganguly  dhoni were verg good at these moves. Dhonu didnt fear giving panyda new ball or even making jadhav bowl who didnt do much of bowling even in domestic. Dhoni greatest quality was he looked at present and future without caring much about past. He didnt hesitate dropping many legends. There were many good reason that he was a top odi captain. Nowwith kohli he lets his perception take over his intsincts. Take his ipl team he beilves gayle, watson are gr8 t20 player so he stuck to them despite their expiry and poor fielding so he lost more then he gained. A set notion of bolwers with change of pace working in t20 has been stuck in his head that makes him choose harshal patel, arvind over many good indian bowlers like avesh. Same thing he followed with yuvi inclusion on hisnpast reputation. He doesnt beileve much in part timers same was with case with dravid to, both were very conventianol n old school captains. In odi his captaincy becomes more fearful rather then risk taking. 

Now our odi unit isnt as settled as test. Kohli, bumrah may be the only fixed one. Bhuvi somewhat now and dhoni for sometime more. Dhawan  n rohit are fixed but has their areas of many concern and their are player who can give their place a tough fight. Pandya shud have a permanent place but still not settled. Shami struggling with his fitness. So u see to many ifs  n buts with half team. Kohli being the conservative captain wants to stick to exp of karthhik, rahane, yuvi, jadeja, ashwin over new talent . 

Tactically kohli makes blunder here to but loi doesnt give u much time to recover . Most importantly he is not backing right players. Dhoni  gave huge pref to areas like running btw wkts  and fielding while selecting players, kohli  is giving importance to past reputation n quality of player not considering format diff. 

 

So both n many had their strengths n weekness which sometimes works in one format better then others. Right now thats all i can say but with time we ll discover more.

 

I dnt beilve in all these nonsense of punjabi yaraana n all. U cant be at top if u dnt take pride in ur game and value other things more. Every captain has few player he think will be best for him and that choice can be good or bad. 

Very interesting analogy. This gave me a lot of insight to what you see in Kohli. This debate between Dhoni and Kohli is very unique one. Since both of them work the opposite ways. Just by reading this I can tell Dhoni was a better man manager. His game was to hold down runs through spin bowling. He was kinda like Misbah with better forsight. Misbah valued experience rather than youth. That part of him was like Kohli. The part where he was like Dhoni was his reliance of using spin as a attacking option to slow down runs.

 

So Kohli works more with his emotions while Dhoni avoids using emotions make tough decisions. So mentally one can say Dhoni was far more stronger. Since he never let emotions get the better of him when he was captaining the side. Its interesting to see how a players personalty infuses with his captaincy. Kohli sounds more like a aggressor out of the two compared to Dhoni's reserved captaincy. Dhoni on the other hand was a far bigger risk taker. He believed in the future instead of the past. Hence why he left a legacy of success behind. If Kohli is to succeed as Dhoni he must let go of the past and look for a better future.

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1 hour ago, Shaz1 said:

I mean aside from his selection is his onfield captaincy that bad?

There is nothing special about what he does. He was asily replaced by Rahane in tests. In IPL he does not stand out. It is Indian culture of hero worship that he has this inflated ego. He is clearly forgetting he was also given a chance once. Total moron.

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17 minutes ago, Khota said:

There is nothing special about what he does. He was asily replaced by Rahane in tests. In IPL he does not stand out. It is Indian culture of hero worship that he has this inflated ego. He is clearly forgetting he was also given a chance once. Total moron.

He is better than Tendulkar at least. He has won you guys a under 19 World Cup. He should have some experience there. 

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31 minutes ago, Shaz1 said:

Very interesting analogy. This gave me a lot of insight to what you see in Kohli. This debate between Dhoni and Kohli is very unique one. Since both of them work the opposite ways. Just by reading this I can tell Dhoni was a better man manager. His game was to hold down runs through spin bowling. He was kinda like Misbah with better forsight. Misbah valued experience rather than youth. That part of him was like Kohli. The part where he was like Dhoni was his reliance of using spin as a attacking option to slow down runs.

 

So Kohli works more with his emotions while Dhoni avoids using emotions make tough decisions. So mentally one can say Dhoni was far more stronger. Since he never let emotions get the better of him when he was captaining the side. Its interesting to see how a players personalty infuses with his captaincy. Kohli sounds more like a aggressor out of the two compared to Dhoni's reserved captaincy. Dhoni on the other hand was a far bigger risk taker. He believed in the future instead of the past. Hence why he left a legacy of success behind. If Kohli is to succeed as Dhoni he must let go of the past and look for a better future.

No both are good man manager

Dhoni watever i have heard from players interviews is that he doesnt talk much so at times his ideas were taken in wrong way. Fro eg the amount of seniors he dropped felt like having a grudge against him in most interviews. May be he didnt communicate well. When Laxman retired he also said he tried reaching dhoni but he was unrechable . So dhoni had his way of keeping away from all which worked in some situation n didnt work in many. Opp to him kohli likes talking to players and comes across as betetr communicator. Bhaji when he got dropped told how kohli was the only captain who came to him and told how they need a left arm spinner in next series and how bhajji also needs to improve his fitness. So unlike many seniors under dhoni bhajji didnt took it in a bad way coz he was communicated the problem. 

 

Every one has qualities that work in some way n fails in someway 

Same way i feel dhoni captaincy worked better in odi and kohli's in test. 

 

Both have emotions as they are human beings, may be that why dhoni was better under pressure situation and kohli emotions drives him to become the champion he is ( Sanak hai uske andar)

We shud rather say both their qualities work in diff ways......

 

Also kohli will face the problem of comparison with dhoni' captaincy which isnt fair. Dhoni is world toppest Odi captain so how many were before like him. 

Kohli actually somewhat reminds me of imran khan, i have been hugely intrigued by his personality and tried watching many documentries on him and few things that struck common to me was

Many including akram, mushtaq ahmed said Imran was not tactically gr8 and it was mostly miandad who use to handle it ...... but yet imran was a gr8 leader coz leadership is more then tactics. He inspired a generation ,set xamples by leading from front, had a champion mentality and left an attitude for pak cricket. HE himself said in one of the interviews that his best captaincy was at last of career when he learned so i see the same happening with kohli

All i hope is he identifies youngsters like imran n make champion out of them 

 

People often say big players dnt become captain easily, what they dnt understand is how diff for them is to understand why others cant put in the same hard work. Now someone like Lara, Tendulkar were born genius but their was a lot of hardwork n Craziness , dedication behind them. U cnt replicate the genius but hard work, dedication can be replicated. 

 

Its like u n me at a work place being passionate giving it all , enjoying the work, doing it with whole lot of dedication but other taking it casually makes u question why isnt it the same for them. 

 

Every captain leaves a  legacy

ganguly left the fight

Dhoni the calmness

Kohli has already set high standards for dedication n fitness (which aussies had in their culture that made them champion) and he can do a lot more

 

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9 hours ago, Shaz1 said:

He is better than Tendulkar at least. He has won you guys a under 19 World Cup. He should have some experience there. 

It is a team sport. It is India that won the cup not Kohli. He is not bigger then the team. Now with Shastri involved nobody knows what will happen.

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11 minutes ago, Khota said:

It is a team sport. It is India that won the cup not Kohli. He is not bigger then the team. Now with Shastri involved nobody knows what will happen.

It will only get better from here. Kohli finally found a life partner instead of Anushka. Aren't you happy he is finally moving on?

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9 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

No both are good man manager

Dhoni watever i have heard from players interviews is that he doesnt talk much so at times his ideas were taken in wrong way. Fro eg the amount of seniors he dropped felt like having a grudge against him in most interviews. May be he didnt communicate well. When Laxman retired he also said he tried reaching dhoni but he was unrechable . So dhoni had his way of keeping away from all which worked in some situation n didnt work in many. Opp to him kohli likes talking to players and comes across as betetr communicator. Bhaji when he got dropped told how kohli was the only captain who came to him and told how they need a left arm spinner in next series and how bhajji also needs to improve his fitness. So unlike many seniors under dhoni bhajji didnt took it in a bad way coz he was communicated the problem. 

 

Every one has qualities that work in some way n fails in someway 

Same way i feel dhoni captaincy worked better in odi and kohli's in test. 

 

Both have emotions as they are human beings, may be that why dhoni was better under pressure situation and kohli emotions drives him to become the champion he is ( Sanak hai uske andar)

We shud rather say both their qualities work in diff ways......

 

Also kohli will face the problem of comparison with dhoni' captaincy which isnt fair. Dhoni is world toppest Odi captain so how many were before like him. 

Kohli actually somewhat reminds me of imran khan, i have been hugely intrigued by his personality and tried watching many documentries on him and few things that struck common to me was

Many including akram, mushtaq ahmed said Imran was not tactically gr8 and it was mostly miandad who use to handle it ...... but yet imran was a gr8 leader coz leadership is more then tactics. He inspired a generation ,set xamples by leading from front, had a champion mentality and left an attitude for pak cricket. HE himself said in one of the interviews that his best captaincy was at last of career when he learned so i see the same happening with kohli

All i hope is he identifies youngsters like imran n make champion out of them 

 

People often say big players dnt become captain easily, what they dnt understand is how diff for them is to understand why others cant put in the same hard work. Now someone like Lara, Tendulkar were born genius but their was a lot of hardwork n Craziness , dedication behind them. U cnt replicate the genius but hard work, dedication can be replicated. 

 

Its like u n me at a work place being passionate giving it all , enjoying the work, doing it with whole lot of dedication but other taking it casually makes u question why isnt it the same for them. 

 

Every captain leaves a  legacy

ganguly left the fight

Dhoni the calmness

Kohli has already set high standards for dedication n fitness (which aussies had in their culture that made them champion) and he can do a lot more

 

Personality wise in India I don't see a better personality than Kohli right now. He is defiantly a top tier player who gets mentioned when ever team India is mentioned. So to be able to stand out in a team known for its batting is a achievement of itself. I think we Pakistani's identify cricket with Kohli because he does remind us of a player we would wanna have. An aggressive player with attitude who is not just talk but also action. His fitness goals are truly inspirational for any desi to follow. So your right for his own worth he does seem like a chrasmatic leader. Which is what Pakistan had. 

 

How many months exactly did he captain India in ODIs? You say he's new to it. I was expecting him to at least be a captain for 2 years. 

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14 hours ago, velu said:

typical troll thread using MSDs popularity and charisma to defame kohli :p:

 

:no: Poor trolling. Thread should be, MSD is  a disaster in role of On Field Consultant to Captain and his poor advise is bringing disrepute to Kohlis Captaincy:yess:

Edited by mishra
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8 hours ago, Shaz1 said:

Personality wise in India I don't see a better personality than Kohli right now. He is defiantly a top tier player who gets mentioned when ever team India is mentioned. So to be able to stand out in a team known for its batting is a achievement of itself. I think we Pakistani's identify cricket with Kohli because he does remind us of a player we would wanna have. An aggressive player with attitude who is not just talk but also action. His fitness goals are truly inspirational for any desi to follow. So your right for his own worth he does seem like a chrasmatic leader. Which is what Pakistan had. 

 

How many months exactly did he captain India in ODIs? You say he's new to it. I was expecting him to at least be a captain for 2 years. 

he started in jan only as odi captain, CT was his 2nd series as odi captain

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On 7/19/2017 at 8:03 AM, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

I Believe u asked me to post in english, well that also u cant read. Read the highlighted part CAN BE.....there is diff between can be and is 

 

Also read above all have same views

 

About the hard on, well looks like u had a thing for anushka who is currently dating Virat.....thats y u cant handle it and keep singing "Virat Haye haye "

 

D0A66K94.jpg

 

 

Christ bollywood , sometimes I wonder whether this is how you function in real life as well or are as melodramatic in real life too. 

There is a difference between can be and is     -  I never implied or stated the fact that he already is - my contention is that he cannot be ! ....see quite simple .

 

Now this part really made me laugh ,  I am just surprsied that even your everyday thinking and rationalizing something is in such a bollywood fashion.   Haha so I have a think for Anushka so I hate Kohli ?? :cheer:   

Lemme give you some better ones as this angle has been used by Bollywood many times already

  • Kohli and I played together as a child and he always scored more than me and I promised to take revenge
  • My best friend used to be Kohli's personal stylist who Kohli fired and I have a personal grudge against him
  • Kohli's dog ate my dog and I promised revenge
  • In our previous life , Kohli and I were best friends and he took away the love of my life and I am in spite of that.

 

Be original Bollywood , no wonder the schtik is getting old.  I'd say preserve the few brain cells you got firing in that head and stop having a hard on for any cricketer for that matter 

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24 minutes ago, bleaf27 said:

Christ bollywood , sometimes I wonder whether this is how you function in real life as well or are as melodramatic in real life too. 

There is a difference between can be and is     -  I never implied or stated the fact that he already is - my contention is that he cannot be ! ....see quite simple .

 

Now this part really made me laugh ,  I am just surprsied that even your everyday thinking and rationalizing something is in such a bollywood fashion.   Haha so I have a think for Anushka so I hate Kohli ?? :cheer:   

Lemme give you some better ones as this angle has been used by Bollywood many times already

  • Kohli and I played together as a child and he always scored more than me and I promised to take revenge
  • My best friend used to be Kohli's personal stylist who Kohli fired and I have a personal grudge against him
  • Kohli's dog ate my dog and I promised revenge
  • In our previous life , Kohli and I were best friends and he took away the love of my life and I am in spite of that.

 

Be original Bollywood , no wonder the schtik is getting old.  I'd say preserve the few brain cells you got firing in that head and stop having a hard on for any cricketer for that matter 

U wanna see the xamples of the quotes u have mentioned above, of someone whose brain cells stopped working. Wait ill show u a post

On 7/18/2017 at 8:17 PM, bleaf27 said:

He's already failed as a captain ....as a player couldn't care less - if he does well for India then that's great 

U seee some idiot wrote ....

Already a failed captain

hmmmm lets c

 

Odis

 

Highest winning % till now 

 

 

Most matches as captain
Player Span   Mat   Won  Lost  Tied  NR %
MS Dhoni 2007-2016  199   110  74 4 11 59.57
M Azharuddin 1990-1999  174   90 76 2 6 54.16
SC Ganguly 1999-2005  146    76 65 0 5 53.90
R Dravid 2000-2007  79   42 33 0 4 56.00
N Kapil Dev 1982-1987  74   39 33 0 2 54.16
SR Tendulkar 1996-2000  73   23 43 1 6 35.07
SM Gavaskar 1980-1985  37   14 21 0 2 40.00
V Kohli 2013-2017  30     22 7 0 1

75.86    

 

 

MOST SUCCESSFUL CAPTAINS (AFTER 23 TESTS)

CAPTAINS WON LOST DRAWN WIN%
Steve Waugh (AUS) 17 4 2 73.91
Virat Kohli (IND) 15 2 6 65.21
Ricky Ponting (AUS) 15 3 5 65.21
Michael Vaughn (ENG) 15 4 4 65.21
Mike Brearley (ENG) 14 1 8 60.87
Don Bradman (AUS) 14 3 6 60.87
Lindsay Hassett (AUS) 14 3 6 60.87
MS Dhoni (IND) 14 3 6 60.87

MOST SUCCESSFUL INDIAN CAPTAINS (AFTER 23 TESTS)

CAPTAINS WON LOST DRAWN WIN%
Virat Kohli 15 2 6 65.21
MS Dhoni 14 3 6 60.87
Sourav Ganguly 10 7 6 43.48
Sunil Gavaskar 7 2 14 30.43
Rahul Dravid 7 6 10 30.43

INDIA'S MOST SUCCESSFUL CAPTAINS OVERALL (Min. 5 wins)

CAPTAINS MATCHES WON LOST DRAWN TIED WIN%
Virat Kohli 23 15 2  6 0 65.21%
MS Dhoni 60 27 18  15 0 45.00
Sourav Ganguly 49 21 13  15 0 42.86
Rahul Dravid 25 8 6  11 0 32.00
Mohammad Azharuddin  47 14 14 19 0

29.79    

 

 

 

Sorry i showed the stats to everyone now every one will laugh at u for calling someone with that record already a failed captain

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4 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

U wanna see the xamples of the quotes u have mentioned above, of someone whose brain cells stopped working. Wait ill show u a post

U seee some idiot wrote ....

Already a failed captain

hmmmm lets c

 

Odis

 

Highest winning % till now 

 

 

Most matches as captain
Player Span   Mat   Won  Lost  Tied  NR %
MS Dhoni 2007-2016  199   110  74 4 11 59.57
M Azharuddin 1990-1999  174   90 76 2 6 54.16
SC Ganguly 1999-2005  146    76 65 0 5 53.90
R Dravid 2000-2007  79   42 33 0 4 56.00
N Kapil Dev 1982-1987  74   39 33 0 2 54.16
SR Tendulkar 1996-2000  73   23 43 1 6 35.07
SM Gavaskar 1980-1985  37   14 21 0 2 40.00
V Kohli 2013-2017  30     22 7 0 1

75.86    

 

 

MOST SUCCESSFUL CAPTAINS (AFTER 23 TESTS)

CAPTAINS WON LOST DRAWN WIN%
Steve Waugh (AUS) 17 4 2 73.91
Virat Kohli (IND) 15 2 6 65.21
Ricky Ponting (AUS) 15 3 5 65.21
Michael Vaughn (ENG) 15 4 4 65.21
Mike Brearley (ENG) 14 1 8 60.87
Don Bradman (AUS) 14 3 6 60.87
Lindsay Hassett (AUS) 14 3 6 60.87
MS Dhoni (IND) 14 3 6 60.87

MOST SUCCESSFUL INDIAN CAPTAINS (AFTER 23 TESTS)

CAPTAINS WON LOST DRAWN WIN%
Virat Kohli 15 2 6 65.21
MS Dhoni 14 3 6 60.87
Sourav Ganguly 10 7 6 43.48
Sunil Gavaskar 7 2 14 30.43
Rahul Dravid 7 6 10 30.43

INDIA'S MOST SUCCESSFUL CAPTAINS OVERALL (Min. 5 wins)

CAPTAINS MATCHES WON LOST DRAWN TIED WIN%
Virat Kohli 23 15 2  6 0 65.21%
MS Dhoni 60 27 18  15 0 45.00
Sourav Ganguly 49 21 13  15 0 42.86
Rahul Dravid 25 8 6  11 0 32.00
Mohammad Azharuddin  47 14 14 19 0

29.79    

 

 

 

Sorry i showed the stats to everyone now every one will laugh at u for calling someone with that record already a failed captain

It's funny that you keep highlighting stats for everything. .........I really believe that for you stats pretty much is black and white , quite odd.

 

Kohli has 23 matches and Dhoni with the next best % has 60 matches - Law of averages heck if you ever studied advanced math shows how the numbers will not maintain in a similar manner. 

 

Dhoni has captained a side for what 8 odd years or so and Kohli has been what 2 odd years and you are comparing their stats :facepalm:   Read a stats book in your life for once.

 Law of Large numbers -  In probability and statistics, the law of large numbers states that as a sample size grows, its mean gets closer to the average of the whole population.
 

Now, apart from numbers -  Even if Kohli ends with a higher "%" in the end ,  Is that success ?   If for you a higher % is a success then sure , for me it isn't.

For me a captain who played with integrity , less drama , less of a fool and internal politics with a 60% win ratio is 10 times better  than an idiot who runs his mouth 24/7 , plays internal divisive politics and has a win ratio of 65 % as a captain.    To each it's own right. 

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