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sourab10forever

1st Test-SL v IND | 26-Jul-2017 10 PM IST | Galle

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1 minute ago, jusarrived said:

Come on yaar , lets distinguish between Tests and LOIs . Dhawan wont surive long enough to score quickly outside india and 2 agresssive openers means we will have to get used to seeing 40/4 kind of scores more often than 150 in the first session . Vijay till recently was our best Test batsmen and now we want to drop him for a batsmen who should not even be in the squad ? 

Dhawan can handle pretty much everything except seam/swing. Quite under rating him if you say he cannot score outside especially since we hardly get persistent seaming condition anywhere.

Had Vijay been opening today he would have been 58* (160) . One of those players who knows only one way to play regardless of conditions. On the contrary Dhawan can be match winner in most conditions except a few.

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7 minutes ago, Kerberos said:

Dhawan can handle pretty much everything except seam/swing. Quite under rating him if you say he cannot score outside especially since we hardly get persistent seaming condition anywhere.

Had Vijay been opening today he would have been 58* (160) . One of those players who knows only one way to play regardless of conditions. On the contrary Dhawan can be match winner in most conditions except a few.

Dhawan hasn't proved enough outside the sub continent. I wouldn't say he's done but right now Vijay and Rahul are better than him overall. 

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17 minutes ago, Kerberos said:

Dhawan can handle pretty much everything except seam/swing. Quite under rating him if you say he cannot score outside especially since we hardly get persistent seaming condition anywhere.

Had Vijay been opening today he would have been 58* (160) . One of those players who knows only one way to play regardless of conditions. On the contrary Dhawan can be match winner in most conditions except a few.

That makes the difference between scoring and getting out for a cheap score in Eng, Aus, SA or NZ. If you dont know how to handle swing or seam, you wont be able to buy a run even if your life depended on it. And let me tell you that ability doesnt come by often for SC batsmen as well. In our entire history, only Gavaskar has been able to do well consistently as an opener in foreign conditions.

 

Even in 2000s, when India did well overseas we had Sehwag who was a freak who cant be compared with anyone else and gave some good starts. Gambhir did well for a bit but when openers didnt do well, Dravid filled that gap.

 

Edited by kubrickian

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50 minutes ago, Kerberos said:

Dhawan can handle pretty much everything except seam/swing. Quite under rating him if you say he cannot score outside especially since we hardly get persistent seaming condition anywhere.

Had Vijay been opening today he would have been 58* (160) . One of those players who knows only one way to play regardless of conditions. On the contrary Dhawan can be match winner in most conditions except a few.

Let's put it this way, regardless of anyone you have as opener India is winning at home. It is in those tougher conditions that the likes of Vijay has done well and Dhawan has failed. So if we are to win overseas (SA, Eng, Aus, NZ) as well, we cannot have Dhawan as an opener unless he has improved his technique and can outscore Vijay there.

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It's amazing how individual styles can be seen clearly in a game of test cricket which is not possible with say other team sports like football. On one hand we have Pujara 88 off 154 balls and on the other we have Dhawan 190 off 168.

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1 hour ago, Kerberos said:

Dhawan can handle pretty much everything except seam/swing. Quite under rating him if you say he cannot score outside especially since we hardly get persistent seaming condition anywhere.

Had Vijay been opening today he would have been 58* (160) . One of those players who knows only one way to play regardless of conditions. On the contrary Dhawan can be match winner in most conditions except a few.

Hes poor against bounce too and average against spin . So am pretty accurate in assessing him .

 

As for being match winner , it depends how you see it in Tests . We start as massive favs against this SL side , expect for the entertainment factor I dont think the result would change if a batsmen scores at 50 sr or 120 , but a 50sr hundred on a pitch where other batsmen fail is definately match winning and Vijay is that kind of batsmen .

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I think the future of Indian test Cricket is in safe hands. I wouldn't be too worried about our overseas tours either, as long as Kohli gets the selections right. But he needs to reciprocate the same in LOIs, by kicking out the old players. 

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24 minutes ago, Forever Indian said:

Let's put it this way, regardless of anyone you have as opener India is winning at home. It is in those tougher conditions that the likes of Vijay has done well and Dhawan has failed. So if we are to win overseas (SA, Eng, Aus, NZ) as well, we cannot have Dhawan as an opener unless he has improved his technique and can outscore Vijay there.

Dhawan has played a grand total of 10 test matches in SA, Eng, Aus and NZ and he averages 29. Murli has played 14 matches in those and averages 39. Obviously Murli is better than Dhawan statiscally and also has tight offstump technique. But dhawan hasn't been very bad and hasn't played much. He has one bad Australia series and his record is screwed. More than sure if he tours Australia at this moment he would score century for fun at good strike rate. Australia has flat tracks with only bounce as a threat. Dhawan has decent ability to play bounce and he has only improved. SA too have mixed conditions. Swing/Seam for a session or two spread over 5 days. Only NZ can have true seam/swing conditions. In England it depends on weather a lot. Dhawan, in ODIs , has shown great ability to score in England and Australia. He averages over 50 in NZ in test matches.(only two matches but then his failures in tests outside also have similar low sample set :phehe: )

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Dhawan has sealed his spot for next 1 year and possibly 2 if he scores a few more centuries. Vijay will be sitting on the bench.

 

Man o man...this mumbaikar at the crease is soooooooooooooooo baaaaaaaaaaaaad. In ODIS, he bats like a test cricketer. In T20s, he bats as if it is an ODI. And in Tests, mashallah....sloths would be proud. 

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19 minutes ago, Kerberos said:

Dhawan has played a grand total of 10 test matches in SA, Eng, Aus and NZ and he averages 29. Murli has played 14 matches in those and averages 39. Obviously Murli is better than Dhawan statiscally and also has tight offstump technique. But dhawan hasn't been very bad and hasn't played much. He has one bad Australia series and his record is screwed. More than sure if he tours Australia at this moment he would score century for fun at good strike rate. Australia has flat tracks with only bounce as a threat. Dhawan has decent ability to play bounce and he has only improved. SA too have mixed conditions. Swing/Seam for a session or two spread over 5 days. Only NZ can have true seam/swing conditions. In England it depends on weather a lot. Dhawan, in ODIs , has shown great ability to score in England and Australia. He averages over 50 in NZ in test matches.(only two matches but then his failures in tests outside also have similar low sample set :phehe: )

its only statistically you can compare the two players . VJ has a habit of doing all the hard work on tough conditions and not cashing it when it gets easy , which offcourse he needs to rectify but its his knocks which helped other batsmen score well and India rarely failed as batting unit on those overseas tours . 

 

NZ was super flat the last time we toured and if you had actually watched the match Dhawan was lucky even then with few droped catches in those innings  .

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10 minutes ago, The Dark Horse said:

The stats only suggest Vijay is better

And do not deny it. The stats also suggest Dhawan hasn't played much outside to not get more chances. Like I said even in test matches there is very little 'movement' to negotiate in most countries. If dhawan does good he would be an outright match winner like Sehwag was once. 

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2 minutes ago, Kerberos said:

And do not deny it. The stats also suggest Dhawan hasn't played much outside to not get more chances. Like I said even in test matches there is very little 'movement' to negotiate in most countries. If dhawan does good he would be an outright match winner like Sehwag was once. 

Dhawan can definitely give good starts, but it's necessary to not expose the rest of the batsmen in testing conditions. That's the main job of an opener and Vijay does it better than Dhawan on most times. However, Dhawan can be the 3rd opener in the team after Vijay and Rahul. In case one of them fails for long/gets injured he'll get a chance. It's good we're spoilt for choices.

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16 minutes ago, jusarrived said:

its only statistically you can compare the two players . VJ has a habit of doing all the hard work on tough conditions and not cashing it when it gets easy , which offcourse he needs to rectify but its his knocks which helped other batsmen score well and India rarely failed as batting unit on those overseas tours . 

 

NZ was super flat the last time we toured and if you had actually watched the match Dhawan was lucky even then with few droped catches in those innings  .

And Vijay averages 12 in same series. This is not how it works. Murli Vijay did cash on good pitches of Australia where dhawan failed to cashed on. 

Vijay's true achievement is England series. Hatsoff to him for that. :hatsoff:This is the problem with Indians. We get overawed by few innings and dismiss any other opinion against him. No wonder players like Ishant, Jadeja and nowadays Rohit keep on going at the expense of trying others. 

Like said before Murli Vijay has also not played much outside. He has few quality knocks but it shouldn't stop from giving other players equal opportunity since Vijay has not been outstanding.

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4 minutes ago, Kerberos said:

And Vijay averages 12 in same series. This is not how it works. Murli Vijay did cash on good pitches of Australia where dhawan failed to cashed on. 

Vijay's true achievement is England series. Hatsoff to him for that. :hatsoff:This is the problem with Indians. We get overawed by few innings and dismiss any other opinion against him. No wonder players like Ishant, Jadeja and nowadays Rohit keep on going at the expense of trying others. 

Like said before Murli Vijay has also not played much outside. He has few quality knocks but it shouldn't stop from giving other players equal opportunity since Vijay has not been outstanding.

VJ is proven and test opening slot is somthing which takes years to settle , this is not a spot which we can keep rotating with players . 10 test matches is a lot , its  not a small sample its 20 innings which was almost at a stretch . yes it makes sense to bring in a new player if VJ had failed , but thats not the case here right ? 

 

Virat would definately agree with you though and I am almost certain VJ's career is done and dusted with this knock , Dhawan will play the next overseas tours and most likely fail but then its going to be too late to bring back VJ . 

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I dont know why KL would be an automatic pick when he's fit... the fella has been injured more than fit, and he needs to have match practice before he can just be drafted into the test opening slot.

 

With that logic id stick to Dhawan and Vijay ( as he is less prone to injuries than Rahul) and have KL and Mukund ( :facepalm:) as reserve openers.

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24 minutes ago, LordPrabhzy said:

I dont know why KL would be an automatic pick when he's fit... the fella has been injured more than fit, and he needs to have match practice before he can just be drafted into the test opening slot.

 

With that logic id stick to Dhawan and Vijay ( as he is less prone to injuries than Rahul) and have KL and Mukund ( :facepalm:) as reserve openers.

Rahul was one of our best batsman in the most difficult series (in terms of batting conditions) in recent times helping us win against Aussies. 

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2 hours ago, Kerberos said:

And Vijay averages 12 in same series. This is not how it works. Murli Vijay did cash on good pitches of Australia where dhawan failed to cashed on. 

Vijay's true achievement is England series. Hatsoff to him for that. :hatsoff:This is the problem with Indians. We get overawed by few innings and dismiss any other opinion against him. No wonder players like Ishant, Jadeja and nowadays Rohit keep on going at the expense of trying others. 

Like said before Murli Vijay has also not played much outside. He has few quality knocks but it shouldn't stop from giving other players equal opportunity since Vijay has not been outstanding.

:wp1:

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29 minutes ago, LordPrabhzy said:

I dont know why KL would be an automatic pick when he's fit... the fella has been injured more than fit, and he needs to have match practice before he can just be drafted into the test opening slot.

 

With that logic id stick to Dhawan and Vijay ( as he is less prone to injuries than Rahul) and have KL and Mukund ( :facepalm:) as reserve openers.

honest post. totally clear that you dont know..

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Wow what a inning's from  Shikar Dhawan........... :heart: ... Love every bit of it .....:clap:

 

Pujara was steady as ever... Hope to see him make a huge score tomorrow....

 

disappointed with  Kohli getting out so  early... was exicted to see him make a big hundred.... Hoping he will smash us in the next game..:clap:

 

So excited about tomorrow....,,, India !!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

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38 minutes ago, lanka-girln said:

Wow what a inning's from  Shikar Dhawan........... :heart: ... Love every bit of it .....:clap:

 

Pujara was steady as ever... Hope to see him make a huge score tomorrow....

 

disappointed with  Kohli getting out so  early... was exicted to see him make a big hundred.... Hoping he will smash us in the next game..:clap:

 

So excited about tomorrow....,,, India !!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

dude can you go and bring maharavana in, its more fun having him around.

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10 hours ago, jusarrived said:

Come on yaar , lets distinguish between Tests and LOIs . Dhawan wont surive long enough to score quickly outside india and 2 agresssive openers means we will have to get used to seeing 40/4 kind of scores more often than 150 in the first session . Vijay till recently was our best Test batsmen and now we want to drop him for a batsmen who should not even be in the squad ? 

dhwan is likely to become the MOM of this Match as he has made his 190 in 160 odd balls...thats seriosuly fast for test , we have very good chance to get 20 wickets of lankans after batting n scoring 650+ till tea.

Yes in england and africa where the ball swings a lot , one can afford to play pujara and murli vijay together but on dead tracks and batting tracks, team which has warner/dhwan/virat type batsman win matches..i agree that vijay has to be in schemme of things on challenging pitches like in africa, england but on docile lankan pitches, dhwan is likely to make 500 runs in tests with lanka.

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2 hours ago, Tibarn said:

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For anyone who didn't see. Kohli gave Hardik his test cap 

lets see how hardik performs but i always like to invest in guys like Hardik.

he may hit and get out for 15 too tommorow if the situation demands fast scoring but if he gets going , he can score a 50 or a 75 in no time.

he is far better batsman than ravinder jadeja and indian team has to back him strongly.

i am interested in seeing how he bowls as he has nearly shunted out ISHANT SHARMA

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34 minutes ago, vishalvirsingh said:

dhwan is likely to become the MOM of this Match as he has made his 190 in 160 odd balls...thats seriosuly fast for test , we have very good chance to get 20 wickets of lankans after batting n scoring 650+ till tea.

Yes in england and africa where the ball swings a lot , one can afford to play pujara and murli vijay together but on dead tracks and batting tracks, team which has warner/dhwan/virat type batsman win matches..i agree that vijay has to be in schemme of things on challenging pitches like in africa, england but on docile lankan pitches, dhwan is likely to make 500 runs in tests with lanka.

 

We cannot have one team for flat pitches and other for overseas and an openers spot is last one we should mess with . Secondly its unfair on some one like VJ and Pujara , end of their careers these two will be averaging in their early 40s while some one like Dhawan will have Sehwag kind of stats . 

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27 minutes ago, Iconoclast said:

I think being too involved in the politics of Indian cricket is messing  up Virat's batting form.

 

Same thing happened to Shoaib Malik when he was made captain.

U cnt put virat n malik in same category, Malik is in no class when compare to kohli

 

Kohli is human, few failures happen to every cricketer, he has been making runs a few failures and people start to dig to find stupid reasons 

 

If he scores a 100 next game , then what happens to so called politics . He scored runs in CT n WI recently so what happened to politics 

 

Ye kya hai kabhi bhi aati hai kabhi bhi jaati hai 

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39 minutes ago, Iconoclast said:

I think being too involved in the politics of Indian cricket is messing  up Virat's batting form.

 

Same thing happened to Shoaib Malik when he was made captain.

well even in bad form kohli keeps winning every 3rd match,he will be alright.He does seem out of form for the last year or so,but still somehow makes runs,:phehe:

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