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How good is Shami?


gakgupta

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2 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

People don't realize how much Pandya has improved his bowling in the last 15 months or so.

 

He now has a stock ball .... good, length and around off-stump.... which he can bowl 4 or 5 times an over

He is bowling at fast-medium speeds of 132 k to 142 k .... occasionally touching 145 k / 146 k even.

He is hitting the deck hard and not floating the ball or just placing the ball

He gets good bounce and has a good bouncer 

He can out-swing the ball when conditions favour

He gets seam movement on occasions

 

 

When he burst into the scene... he was mostly bowling just shot and often wide.... did not have a stock ball... bowled 127 to 137 k.... did not move the ball much

Hope you are right but what you are saying tells how desperate India is to find one bowler who can bat they are willing to play in tests without any FC success.

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1 minute ago, Laaloo said:

It was not even hindisight. We were calling for him since the first match and especially after Jadhav outbowled Ashwin and Jadeja in all of the matches and in that SF, Ashwin dropped a catch and got thrashed.

I know,you right. Jadeja and Ashwin have regressed so much in odis and I really hope Ashwin has played his last ODI for India.

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Shami for a fact is the world's best bowler right now. There could be no doubt about that. To me, the way he is bowling, seems no less than how Steyn was bowling at his peak.

No quick bowler as of now uses his brain like shami does.

 

As far as bowling 20 overs on a trot, a great bowler doesnt need another great bowler by his side. He just needs decent or more than decent bowlers to support them. Remember Srinath with Venky? Just to remind you, the duo were rated very high abroad, especially South Africa and England. They used to talk about them in the same breath as Donald.

Umesh Yadav and the likes are good enough to support him abroad. I have high hopes on Bumrah, he is another bowler who uses his brain and with time will become a dangerous bowler and will increase pace too. yes, we didnt have 2 great genuine quickies bowling at the same time, but it looks like we are coming of age now.

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15 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

No quick bowler as of now uses his brain like shami does.

 

 I have high hopes on Bumrah, he is another bowler who uses his brain and with time will become a dangerous bowler and will increase pace too. yes, we didnt have 2 great genuine quickies bowling at the same time, but it looks like we are coming of age now.

 

Very true RAFbhai.

 

Shami and Bumrah are 2 genuinely quick bowlers who use their brains.   And I  would really like to see how they would bowl in tandem in test matches.

Edited by express bowling
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33 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Shami for a fact is the world's best bowler right now. There could be no doubt about that. To me, the way he is bowling, seems no less than how Steyn was bowling at his peak.

No quick bowler as of now uses his brain like shami does.

 

As far as bowling 20 overs on a trot, a great bowler doesnt need another great bowler by his side. He just needs decent or more than decent bowlers to support them. Remember Srinath with Venky? Just to remind you, the duo were rated very high abroad, especially South Africa and England. They used to talk about them in the same breath as Donald.

Umesh Yadav and the likes are good enough to support him abroad. I have high hopes on Bumrah, he is another bowler who uses his brain and with time will become a dangerous bowler and will increase pace too. yes, we didnt have 2 great genuine quickies bowling at the same time, but it looks like we are coming of age now.

I don't think Shami is even in top five fast bowlers, we need to stop overrating these fast bowlers. If Indian selectors are honest they would know Shami has long long way to go to be considered in top echelon of fast bowlers.

 

He is India's best fast bowler after Zaheer.We all know how fast Zaheer ran out of gas.How many matches Venky and Srinath win for India especially abroad, rated high doesn't mean squat if results are not there.Srinath never found right length to bowl on pitches away from sub continent (his own admission).He kept beating the bat without much to show for.One more thing which worked against him was he never had third seamer who could take load off him.Venky was okay but you need that third bowler again his own admission.

 

Srinath had lot of things going against him he cemented his placed very late his career same like Shami.

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Shami averaging around 25 per wicket in the last 2 years.   And has played most of those tests in unhelpful conditions.   If he's 100% - not just healthy and un-injured - 100% fit, when we start our next round of away tours in SA/Eng/Aus, he may become a superstar.   This time around he has the supporting cast to really maximize his effectiveness that the likes of Kapil, Srinath and even Zak never had.  

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18 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I don't think Shami is even in top five fast bowlers, we need to stop overrating these fast bowlers. If Indian selectors are honest they would know Shami has long long way to go to be considered in top echelon of fast bowlers.

 

He is India's best fast bowler after Zaheer.We all know how fast Zaheer ran out of gas.How many matches Venky and Srinath win for India especially abroad, rated high doesn't mean squat if results are not there.Srinath never found right length to bowl on pitches away from sub continent (his own admission).He kept beating the bat without much to show for.One more thing which worked against him was he never had third seamer who could take load off him.Venky was okay but you need that third bowler again his own admission.

 

Srinath had lot of things going against him he cemented his placed very late his career same like Shami.

That's a bit harsh.  Agree that he has to do more, especially on the coming tours.  But Shami is looking the goods if you watch him bowl.   I know we Indian fans have suffered through too many false dawns on this front not to be cynical.  And he definitely doesn't have age or injuries on his side.  But still.  There's enough here to be optimistic.

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2 hours ago, putrevus said:

In hindsight it was big mistake not playing Shami then early wickets would have changed the total complexion of that game.Pakistan had win one match at some point but unfortunately it happened in finals.Hope it does not become repeat of 1986 Sharjah Javed Miandad. 

lol why would you say that

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1 minute ago, sandeep said:

That's a bit harsh.  Agree that he has to do more, especially on the coming tours.  But Shami is looking the goods if you watch him bowl.   I know we Indian fans have suffered through too many false dawns on this front not to be cynical.  And he definitely doesn't have age or injuries on his side.  But still.  There's enough here to be optimistic.

I would be very happy if he  ends as no1 test bowler and helps India win tests/series abroad. But if we are honest all he has done so far is fill the role of support bowler very well.

 

It is a totally different ball game when you as leading fast bowler is called upon by captain again and again to stem the tide.We could literally see Zak running on fumes in last few tests. Srinath also spoke on how he was knackered by tea time but he still had bowl those overs as there was no one to do the job.

 

People who are knocking Kapil Dev should understand he was the strike bowler and also the holding bowler.Atleast Srinath had some support who did Kapil have as support.

 

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4 minutes ago, putrevus said:

After that match India found beating Pakistan in Sharjah very very tough. It become embrassingly one sided.The confidence they gained from CT finals cannot be underestimated.

i think sharjah was different story and that pak side was way better than ind side that was may be more of a reason than that six.this ind side is better than pak in every aspect you look,may be they have better bowlers for this format but i dont think one loss should lead to such conclusions.

 

i hope we get more competitive ind-pak games in future,its good fun

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37 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I would be very happy if he  ends as no1 test bowler and helps India win tests/series abroad. But if we are honest all he has done so far is fill the role of support bowler very well.

 

It is a totally different ball game when you as leading fast bowler is called upon by captain again and again to stem the tide.We could literally see Zak running on fumes in last few tests. Srinath also spoke on how he was knackered by tea time but he still had bowl those overs as there was no one to do the job.

 

People who are knocking Kapil Dev should understand he was the strike bowler and also the holding bowler.Atleast Srinath had some support who did Kapil have as support.

 

Funniest thing is that sometimes Sunil Gavaskar used to open the bowling for Indian test team in the 1970s.  Just think about that for a minute.  

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1 minute ago, sandeep said:

Funniest thing is that sometimes Sunil Gavaskar used to open the bowling for Indian test team in the 1970s.  Just think about that for a minute.  

Pataudi brought that change in mindset, he said "our spinners are our best bowlers they should play everywhere not just India".So they ended up with gavaskar opening the bowling.

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10 hours ago, gakgupta said:

Very very good analysis....

After reading you post, something strikes me......most of the indian pace bowlers regresses after good year or two.....but it is completely different for Shami....

In many aspects, he reminds me of Zaheer Khan....

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk
 

Bhuv Uadav did not regress either may be they stemmed it

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1 hour ago, putrevus said:

After that match India found beating Pakistan in Sharjah very very tough. It become embrassingly one sided.The confidence they gained from CT finals cannot be underestimated.

No such crap would happen there is no bottle caps home umpiers and dark spots in the field everything is in view now. 

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Just now, Vilander said:

No such crap would happen there is no bottle caps home umpiers and dark spots in the field everything is in view now. 

let us hope that is the case as I cannot stand them winning aginst India. CT still baffles me on how the heck did we end up losing too them.

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2 hours ago, putrevus said:

I don't think Shami is even in top five fast bowlers, we need to stop overrating these fast bowlers. If Indian selectors are honest they would know Shami has long long way to go to be considered in top echelon of fast bowlers.

 

He is India's best fast bowler after Zaheer.We all know how fast Zaheer ran out of gas.How many matches Venky and Srinath win for India especially abroad, rated high doesn't mean squat if results are not there.Srinath never found right length to bowl on pitches away from sub continent (his own admission).He kept beating the bat without much to show for.One more thing which worked against him was he never had third seamer who could take load off him.Venky was okay but you need that third bowler again his own admission.

 

Srinath had lot of things going against him he cemented his placed very late his career same like Shami.

I have watching cricket ever since you were still in nappies. By telling what you feel about Shami, you have just clarified how much of fast bowling you have seen and how much understanding you have.

Although you sound a closet Pakistani to me, but I would give you the benefit of doubt of someone with extremely limited knowledge of cricket and someone who just started watching a few years before.

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11 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

I have watching cricket ever since you were still in nappies. By telling what you feel about Shami, you have just clarified how much of fast bowling you have seen and how much understanding you have.

Although you sound a closet Pakistani to me, but I would give you the benefit of doubt of someone with extremely limited knowledge of cricket and someone who just started watching a few years before.

 I have forgotten more cricket than you have ever known.Unlike you I am realistic fan who knows the limitations of players. Only a foolish man would declare Shami as best pacer in the world.

 

You don't have to get personal if you have something to comeback use it, don't reply to my post with nonsensical and personal retorts.

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45 minutes ago, putrevus said:

 I have forgotten more cricket than you have ever known.Unlike you I am realistic fan who knows the limitations of players. Only a foolish man would declare Shami as best pacer in the world.

 

You don't have to get personal if you have something to comeback use it, don't reply to my post with nonsensical and personal retorts.

That is funny, coz your posts hardly reflect it.

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4 hours ago, sandeep said:

Shami averaging around 25 per wicket in the last 2 years.   And has played most of those tests in unhelpful conditions.   If he's 100% - not just healthy and un-injured - 100% fit, when we start our next round of away tours in SA/Eng/Aus, he may become a superstar.   This time around he has the supporting cast to really maximize his effectiveness that the likes of Kapil, Srinath and even Zak never had.  

 

Agree.

 

Shami is averaging just 24.5 with a SR of 51 in the last 2 seasons in test matches.

 

And only 3 of his 13 tests in this period were in  seam / swing friendly conditions.

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