Why are "liberals" so casteist?

[surajmal]

As we know, Dera followers tend to be dalits or lower caste Sikh/Hindus. So,the glee with which MSM was reporting on deaths of dera followers or broad brushing them as goons and criminals was/is shameful. Is it time to define/single out the casteism of the Liberal caste? 

 

Discuss. 

[Stuge]

Troll caste 

[Tendu_10]

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[Tibarn]

I'm still wondering where the phony Human Rights activists are, now that real bullets were used on Dalit Hindus/Dalit Sikhs. 

 

I'm also wondering why real bullets aren't used in Kashmir, West Bengal, or Mumbai when certain sections of society decide to riot, murder, and cause property damage. 

[Muloghonto]

^^

the same reason i suppose RSS goons froth at the mouth for 'President's rule' in Kerala/WB at drop of a hat but will never ever advocate President's rule in the Hindi belt. 

 

[gattaca]

8 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

^^

the same reason i suppose RSS goons froth at the mouth for 'President's rule' in Kerala/WB at drop of a hat but will never ever advocate President's rule in the Hindi belt. 

 

Forget about rss even congress , sp. bsp everyone is silent. But if you don't follow news lot of rss folks are murdered in Kerala. Why wouldn't they ask for president rule ?

[NareshK]

The word liberal doesnt apply for countries like India, Pakistan etc. They only used the word to appear more open minded and closer to Western counterparts. Indian society itself is totally fractured and built on the idea of all men not being equal(caste system). It will take many many decades for that mindset to go and India to become a civilized society.

[chewy]

There are no liberals in India, in politics or in Media, they self proclaim to be one but they aren't...they always get their knickers in a twist when trying to denounce something and contradicting western liberal beliefs 

 

[beetle]

People who assemble to cause violence, carry hockey sticks, bottles of petrol, burn down vehicles , trains, police stations, offices, railway stations and even fire tenders....deserve to be called goons and criminals no matter what caste or religion.

Gooda gardi hai sab .

[Tibarn]

10 hours ago, NareshK said:

The word liberal doesnt apply for countries like India, Pakistan etc. They only used the word to appear more open minded and closer to Western counterparts. Indian society itself is totally fractured and built on the idea of all men not being equal(caste system). It will take many many decades for that mindset to go and India to become a civilized society.

How many of those "Western counterparts" are actually liberal as well?

 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/liberal

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1.

open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values

I would wager most self-described "liberals" are just what you described: "only used the word to appear more open minded." I don't think that people in the West are anything special, they don't have magic powers. If everyone in the West who self-described themselves as liberals were actually open-minded and willing to change opinions based on evidence, then, for example using the US, neither the Democrats nor Republicans would exist in their current form. 

 

I would wager that most people who think they are open-minded, are only open-minded as long as data doesn't conflict with those beliefs they hold most closely to their hearts. Once data/evidence contradicts a strongly held belief of anyone who lives anywhere, there will be blow-back.  

Quote

built on the idea of all men not being equal(caste system).

All successful societies are hierarchical to different degrees. The only difference is that in "the West" or East Asia, the nature of hierarchy is merit based: if you are qualified, you make it to the top, regardless of where you were born.  If you aren't good enough, you will fall toward the bottom, no matter where you are born. 

 

Is there any proof that all people are equal? The genetic data would say otherwise. All people are unique/different, therefore, by definition, people are unequal. Some people are more suited for certain things, others for other things.

 

[Muloghonto]

14 minutes ago, Tibarn said:

How many of those "Western counterparts" are actually liberal as well?

 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/liberal

I would wager most self-described "liberals" are just what you described: "only used the word to appear more open minded." I don't think that people in the West are anything special, they don't have magic powers. If everyone in the West who self-described themselves as liberals were actually open-minded and willing to change opinions based on evidence, then, for example using the US, neither the Democrats nor Republicans would exist in their current form. 

 

I would wager that most people who think they are open-minded, are only open-minded as long as data doesn't conflict with those beliefs they hold most closely to their hearts. Once data/evidence contradicts a strongly held belief of anyone who lives anywhere, there will be blow-back.  

All successful societies are hierarchical to different degrees. The only difference is that in "the West" or East Asia, the nature of hierarchy is merit based: if you are qualified, you make it to the top, regardless of where you were born.  If you aren't good enough, you will fall toward the bottom, no matter where you are born. 

 

Is there any proof that all people are equal? The genetic data would say otherwise. All people are unique/different, therefore, by definition, people are unequal. Some people are more suited for certain things, others for other things.

 

thats a pretty damn big difference. its like saying the only difference between a real train and your toy train on the shelf is size....

 

[Tibarn]

1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

thats a pretty damn big difference. its like saying the only difference between a real train and your toy train on the shelf is size....

 

I didn't try to quantify the difference as a small or big, one way or another. The point was that hierarchy exists whether it comes from merit or government architecture picking winners and losers. People probably even prefer hierarchies. 

 

A belief that "all men are created equal", is just that, a belief.

 

It doesn't have magical powers that prevent hierarchies from forming. “All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”

 

It hasn't prevented people who hold that belief from treating other people less than them ie Europeans claiming "all men are created equal" and proceeding to colonize, enslave, mass murder, and even put other people in zoos. 

 

It also hasn't prevented success or failure from being inherited across generations.    

[Muloghonto]

3 hours ago, Tibarn said:

I didn't try to quantify the difference as a small or big, one way or another. The point was that hierarchy exists whether it comes from merit or government architecture picking winners and losers. People probably even prefer hierarchies. 

 

A belief that "all men are created equal", is just that, a belief.

 

It doesn't have magical powers that prevent hierarchies from forming. “All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”

 

It hasn't prevented people who hold that belief from treating other people less than them ie Europeans claiming "all men are created equal" and proceeding to colonize, enslave, mass murder, and even put other people in zoos. 

 

It also hasn't prevented success or failure from being inherited across generations.    

1. Unless you can precisely, objectively underline the difference in ability of individual A from B, there is no merit in said differentiation and it becomes a subjective definition. this is the reason why we have universal human rights, not rights based on merit-because we do not have the science/technology to decisively prove difference in ability and more importantly, why said difference even matters.

Even if you can prove Einstien is smarter than Modi by an objective & empirical basis- which you can't, it still doesn't justify why Einstien should have more rights than Modi and what those rights should be.

 

2. It also doesn't take a genius to realize that if stratification is going to be present, its a better system that has direct feedback than assumed hard-overrides. A system where 'you are capable, but your parents are illiterate/dumb-->so you go to the top and if your child turns out dumb, back to the bottom they go' is inherently superior than a system where 'i don't care about your capabiliites, your name says you should be a rickshaw driver, so off you go'. Simply because the former system is more responsive to direct input. 

 

People prefer merit when they do not have a stake in it (i.e.,their family/loved ones are not involved). And when they do have a stake in it, people are anti-quality and pro-nepotism. Hence society inherently prefers systems which are individual meritocratic over a fatalist system where your accident of birth determines who you can/cannot marry or what job you can/cannot have, for interpersonal rights and opportunity. Society recognizes the inherent need for nepotism, which society accommodates in form of personal inheritence. 

 

this is why the caste system in its final version (locked in, with zero mobility) that has existed for atleast the last 1500 years, is a far inferior system of stratification than what rest of the world uses/used, which are far more responsive to individual inputs.

 

Edited August 27, 2017 by Muloghonto

[surajmal]

https://swarajyamag.com/politics/the-media-feeding-frenzy-over-dera-chiefs-conviction-is-a-bit-over-the-top

 

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There is a reason why media all over the world treats wrongdoing by religious leaders and priests with caution: it’s because some respect should be shown for the anguish felt by the followers of the church, mosque or gurudwara, whose priests may have gone astray. Conscious efforts are made to spare devotees’ feelings even while the culprit himself is hauled up for his crimes.

Despite repeatedly hearing stories of Catholic priests being involved in paedophilia all over the world, we deliberately treat the story with caution since we know that millions of ordinary people believe in the church. When Sister Abhaya of Kerala was murdered for reportedly being in the know of an illicit relationship between two priests and a nun, the story did not get the kind of high-decibel billing anywhere in India. Nor did the book by Sister Jesme, who wrote about rampant sexual misconduct among priests, get the kind of attention it deserved. An Indian priest, extradited from here to the US to face punishment for sexually abusing two women while on deputation to the US, was deported to India after a year of imprisonment. He was quietly rehabilitated by the church in India, after the Vatican revoked the suspension in his case. More recently, the Vatican has been criticised for not defrocking priests, who had indulged in sexual misconduct on the claim that some of the sexcapades were consensual.