Jump to content

Manish Pandey should be given a proper run in ODIs at #4


sandeep

Recommended Posts

If Indian selection is merit-based, Pandey deserves to be at #4 ahead of the likes of KL Rahul.   The only problem is that he's a batsman in the Kohli mould - especially the Kohli mould of 2012-2015, not the current version that has added a bit of power-hitting to his repertoire.   That works against him on 2 counts, both of which are actually not relevant but could be if you think from a vested interest perspective: 

 

1.  He can't really walk in and start slugging boundaries and give you a 140+ SR.   He's a guy who knocks it around, and usually finishes around 115 SR if he bats 25+ balls.   Given that we have the likes of Hardik Pandya, Jadhav etc coming in behind him, his limited power game should not be a deal-breaker at #4.   The only reason it is even an issue, is because our current #5 is an aging legend who has the same problem.  

 

2.  Given ample opportunities to bat for 30+ overs - something that's liable to happen at least 50% of the time in ODIs, he has a high probability of starting to rack up the centuries and big numbers that can truly challenge VK's undisputed pre-eminence as India's best ODI bat.  Not an issue for VK today, but could be, once he hits a bit of a slump, or as age and form start playing that old circle of life tune.  

 

Aside from these 2, there is simply no basis for keeping Pandey out of the ODI batting line-up.  He's better than Yuvraj in the field and more reliable with the bat.  Possesses a tighter technique than the likes of Jadhav.  Doesn't lay stinker eggs against spin like KLR.  OK that's a bit harsh - but in a small sample set, KLR has already shown a discernible problem of being a poor starter against spin.  

 

Optimal ODI batting lineup - 2 years down the road:

 

2 best openers out of Rohit, Dhawan, KLR

VK @ #3

Manish Pandey @ #4

Hardik Pandya @ #5

Rishabh Pant @ #6

bowling allrounder who can tonk it @ #7

 

Jokers in the pack:

Sanju Samson and Ishan Kishan are keeper-bat contenders but both have shown that they are better suited to batting in the top 3.   Shreyas Iyer is another contender who would prefer to bat in the ODI top 3 as well - i.e. the spots where India's next great cricket super-star will mint millions, since that's where you get maximum opportunity and highest probability of piling up big scores.

 

  

 

Link to comment
14 minutes ago, Tibarn said:

Rahul's stats

Career summary
GroupingAscending Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s  
v England 3 3 0 24 11 8.00 34 70.58 0 0 0 3 1 view innings
v Sri Lanka 4 3 0 28 17 9.33 38 73.68 0 0 0 2 0 view innings
v Zimbabwe 3 3 2 196 100* 196.00 235 83.40 1 1 0 15 3

 

Nightmarish start...  

But he hit that GOAT 100 in his 1st T20 against West Indies.  That means he can hit boundaries, so he should automatically get 1st preference and 10x the chances than Pandey gets.  

 

/s

 

 

Link to comment
45 minutes ago, sandeep said:

But he hit that GOAT 100 in his 1st T20 against West Indies.  That means he can hit boundaries, so he should automatically get 1st preference and 10x the chances than Pandey gets.  

 

/s

 

 

Pandey has been much better in the chances he got. 

Career summary
GroupingAscending Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s  
v Australia 2016-2016 3 2 1 110 104* 110.00 86 127.90 1 0 0 9 1 view innings
v New Zealand 2016-2016 5 5 1 76 28* 19.00 98 77.55 0 0 1 6 1 view innings
v Sri Lanka 2017-2017 1 1 1 50 50* - 42 119.04 0 1 0 4 0 view innings
v Zimbabwe 2015-2016 4 2 1 75 71 75.00 87 86.20 0 1 0 5

1

 

Overall,

Career averages
  Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s  
overall 2015-2017 13 10 4 311 104* 51.83 313 99.36 1 2 1 24 3

 

Basically 52 average and a 99 strike rate :adore:

 

We also know that Pandey has experience being the anchor for a team, something important for a #4 batsman, especially in case we lose 2 early wickets.   

Link to comment
52 minutes ago, RAZPOR said:

Can't argue against it ,but then what do you do with rahul ??,if you drop him now cant be good for his confidence.He has a higher ceiling than pandey for sure.

He has to compete with Jadahv for a spot. If Jadhav performs better, than Rahul will have to go to the bench.  As long as he keeps working on his game, he'll never be completely out of contention for a place in ODIs.  

Link to comment
10 minutes ago, Tibarn said:

He has to compete with Jadahv for a spot. If Jadhav performs better, than Rahul will have to go to the bench.  As long as he keeps working on his game, he'll never be completely out of contention for a place in ODIs.  

Rahul should work on staying fit.  The guy gets injured farting in the bathroom seems like.   And he should compete with Rahane to be the spare tire for the opener slot and the middle order.   Pandey has done the hard yards and really deserves a proper run in the ODI team.   And he should be ahead of Dhoni for the #4 spot.   That's harsh for Dhoni's WC 2019 aspirations, but thems the breaks.  

 

Our ODI batting has not kept up with the jones for almost 3 years now.  Top ODI teams threaten 400 almost every other game these days.  And are competent enough to chase scores up to 350.  Not wilt in the face of a 330 like we did in the 2015 WC Semi Final and the 2017 CT Final.    And unlike a minority of noisy chewts on ICF, its not all due to MS Dhoni.  Our batting has a structural deficiency.  One that's currently being hidden due to a combination of weak opponents, Virat Kohli, and the induction of Pandya in the lower order.  Also to some degree with Kedar Jadhav's surprising success so far.  

 

Our batting lineup does need more power hitting capability in the bottom half.   And the answer may involve the end of MS - but not nearly as the first resort.  There's plenty that can be done and needs to be done before we cross that bridge.  

Link to comment
47 minutes ago, Tibarn said:

He has to compete with Jadahv for a spot. If Jadhav performs better, than Rahul will have to go to the bench.  As long as he keeps working on his game, he'll never be completely out of contention for a place in ODIs.  

No 

Jadhav spot is 6 and Rahul is 4.....jadhav shudnt bat higher then 6 and rahul shudnt below 4 

JAdhav offers few overs rahul doesnt 

 

Its Rahul vs Pandey . 

Against a good side u need a 6th bowler , dnt go with 5 bowlers against good sides were ur 5th bowler is hardik 

 

Jadhav spot will have threats from - Krunal, shankar, raina 

Link to comment
9 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

No 

Jadhav spot is 6 and Rahul is 4.....jadhav shudnt bat higher then 6 and rahul shudnt below 4 

JAdhav offers few overs rahul doesnt 

 

Its Rahul vs Pandey . 

Then there is no contest, as thus far Pandey is miles ahead of Rahul.  It's not even close. One has scored at an average of 50 at a near 100 strike rate. The other doesn't even average above 10 vs either top 8 team he has played against and has a record inflated by bashing Zimbabwe. Even if Rahul performs in the last match of the series, it won't change the fact that Pandey has outclassed him, with both of them having played a similar number of innings.     

 

Quote

Against a good side u need a 6th bowler , dnt go with 5 bowlers against good sides were ur 5th bowler is hardik 

 

Jadhav spot will have threats from - Krunal, shankar, raina 

It's clear from today, that Kohli is considering playing an extra batsman.  Hardik won't develop into a proper 5th bowler, unless we actually invest in him right now.

 

SA regularly plays only 5 bowlers. They use Duminy as the 6th bowler if they really need to find a few overs from elsewhere.  Even NZ and England will at times go with only 5 bowlers with Williamson and Root bowling if they really need a 6th option. Kohli looked like he was following that example today. 

 

 If Rahul is really that talented/important, Kohli will find a way to put him in the team. 

Link to comment
21 minutes ago, Tibarn said:

Then there is no contest, as thus far Pandey is miles ahead of Rahul.  It's not even close. One has scored at an average of 50 at a near 100 strike rate. The other doesn't even average above 10 vs either top 8 team he has played against and has a record inflated by bashing Zimbabwe. Even if Rahul performs in the last match of the series, it won't change the fact that Pandey has outclassed him, with both of them having played a similar number of innings.     

 If Rahul is really that talented/important, Kohli will find a way to put him in the team. 

I think its hasty to judge Rahul and Pandey on their small statistical sample set so far.  But even outside his int'l ODI stats, Pandey has been consistently putting up performances.  Those are the kinds of guys who need to be backed.  Rahul looks extremely talented and promising, but so did Rahane when he started his ODI career, look how that turned out.   Not to say that Rahul can't or won't be a great ODI batsman for us.  Hopefully he can.  But as of now, and especially for the #4 slot - Pandey is the more deserving and ready candidate.  

 

21 minutes ago, Tibarn said:

It's clear from today, that Kohli is considering playing an extra batsman.  Hardik won't develop into a proper 5th bowler, unless we actually invest in him right now.

 

SA regularly plays only 5 bowlers. They use Duminy as the 6th bowler if they really need to find a few overs from elsewhere.  Even NZ and England will at times go with only 5 bowlers with Williamson and Root bowling if they really need a 6th option. Kohli looked like he was following that example today. 

 

 

I believe the optimal Indian ODI XI is one where Hardik plays as a #6 batsman, and we find another slugger who is more capable of giving you a solid 8+ overs with the ball.   Pandya has potential, but I feel his current bowling arsenal is not going to be nearly as effective against batting units that view the short ball as a scoring opportunity rather than a threat.  

Edited by sandeep
Link to comment
25 minutes ago, sandeep said:

I think its hasty to judge Rahul and Pandey on their small statistical sample set so far.  But even outside his int'l ODI stats, Pandey has been consistently putting up performances.  Those are the kinds of guys who need to be backed.  Rahul looks extremely talented and promising, but so did Rahane when he started his ODI career, look how that turned out.   Not to say that Rahul can't or won't be a great ODI batsman for us.  Hopefully he can.  But as of now, and especially for the #4 slot - Pandey is the more deserving and ready candidate.

I agree with you, I was only talking in terms of which of the two deserves a spot over the other.  If Ankit_Sharma03 is correct, that these two are in direct competition for one spot in the middle order, then it's pretty clear, IMO, who is winning the battle right now and deserves the "long rope". 

 

The next World Cup is in ~2 years, so both players are going to get more chances from now until then, but there are only so many opportunities and spots in the team. Pandey, Rahul, Jadhav, and young players outside of the squad like Pant/Iyer/other young player will all be pushing for limited spots in the team, and, unless we rest players like Rohit/ Dhawan/Kohli,  there will only be so many batting opportunities from now until then. Every opportunity that Pandey or Rahul get, is one less for a Jadhav/Iyer/Pant, and vice versa, and, eventually, some player(s) are going to have to be put on the bench, as we need to determine whoever our first choice XI is and give them enough match practice as a unit as well.   There will be a lot of tough decisions for Kohli to make as we can't give everyone an equal amount of chances.

 

1 hour ago, sandeep said:

I believe the optimal Indian ODI XI is one where Hardik plays as a #6 batsman, and we find another slugger who is more capable of giving you a solid 8+ overs with the ball.   Pandya has potential, but I feel his current bowling arsenal is not going to be nearly as effective against batting units that view the short ball as a scoring opportunity rather than a threat.

     

I've seen some goofy XI's on twitter during this series, one of them goes like this:

 

1) Rohit

2) Dhawan

3) Kohli

4) Dhoni

5) Jadhav

6) Chota Pandya

7) Mota Pandya

8) Jadeja

9) Axar

10) Bumrah

11) Shami

 

Basically just stuff the team with All-rounders. :phehe: 

 

 

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...