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Dhoni: when will the torture end???

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9 minutes ago, Pollack said:

So the benchmark for dhoni is someone who isn't known as finisher. Someone who hasn't ever sealed his position in Indian. Someone who has just started getting chances. Someone who is not known for his big hitting. Cool. 

Im tired of repeating myself , no cricketer will ever perform same throughout his career. 

Im tired of repeating myself , that he isnt the same cricketer yet he is doing more then many 

 

Pandey was set , so no excuse n what finisher or middle order ....who knws he might get the role in lower middle order.  They both batted well acc to situation. Its easy to argue they cud have scored 10-15 more well for argument had they gotten out we wud have also had 50 less runs 

 

116 s/r is good not gr8. cud have been better but cud have been worst. But certainely not the biggest problem. Why poiint out one guy when somene on other did nothing diff 

 

How right is to single out one guy who is still perfoming better then many despite going through low acc to his standards 

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15 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Im tired of repeating myself , no cricketer will ever perform same throughout his career. 

Im tired of repeating myself , that he isnt the same cricketer yet he is doing more then many 

 

Pandey was set , so no excuse n what finisher or middle order ....who knws he might get the role in lower middle order.  They both batted well acc to situation. Its easy to argue they cud have scored 10-15 more well for argument had they gotten out we wud have also had 50 less runs 

 

116 s/r is good not gr8. cud have been better but cud have been worst. But certainely not the biggest problem. Why poiint out one guy when somene on other did nothing diff 

 

How right is to single out one guy who is still perfoming better then many despite going through low acc to his standards 

On one hand you blame Rohit Sharma for starting slow as an "opener" many times over and over when the idea for him is to start slow and then when set try to make up and score big- now I am not saying this approach is good or bad just pointing out your criticism

 

on the other hand you defend less than a run a ball s/r of a lower middle order bat whose role is to be a big hitter....wow amazing double standards 

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23 minutes ago, Pollack said:

We don't need an accumulator then. Rohit, kohli, Rahul and dhawan all can do that. Manish Pandey can also do that and he has a future unlike dhoni now.India has a vacancy for someone who can score quick and isn't a mindless slogger at the same time. If dhoni can't do that then he has no place. Better try new players who may or may not be good enough. Better investment.

Agree that Rohit, Kohli, Pandey can and should get preference in playing the accumulator role.  If Dhoni was just a batsman, there would be absolutely no argument on the issue.  But he's not.  He's still a quality international class ODI wicket-keeper.   That's what earns him the right to be in the mix.   We have found one power hitter to fill the 2 slots in #6 and 7 slots in Hardik.  We have a serviceable prospect in Kedar Jadhav.  There is no reason why we can't look ot add a power hitter to the Indian ODI team in Jadhav's place.   Push comes to shove, I'd still pick Dhoni ahead of Jadhav, who's no spring chicken himself, and a bit of a gaabdu in the field.  

As I posted above, its past the time when we start grooming and auditioning his replacement.  We need to do that by benching him in T20s, and playing the next keeper-bat alongside or in place of him, every chance we get.   I'm not even averse to playing Rishabh at #6, or as occasional opener in the ODI team, while Dhoni competes for the right to stay in the team.  

 

And regardless of any of this academic discussion - today's batting performance by Dhoni cannot be considered a 'failure' or "torture".  Just because restless fanbois got excited with the possibility of the Indian team finally scoring 400 in an ODI -as they should have today - and are blaming their disappointment all on Dhoni.   Sure, you'd want to see him score at a bit faster rate and have added 10-15 more runs, given the platform.  But you are forgetting that we did have a bit of a wobble when he walked in as well.   Could have easily ended up with 320 or fewer also.   At worst, he came through with a B+ batting performance today.  And you have OP chest-beating as if it was him as opposed to KL Rahul who laid an egg in a relatively easy situation.  

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6 minutes ago, maniac said:

On one hand you blame Rohit Sharma for starting slow as an "opener" many times over and over when the idea for him is to start slow and then when set try to make up and score big- now I am not saying this approach is good or bad just pointing out your criticism

 

on the other hand you defend less than a run a ball s/r of a lower middle order bat whose role is to be a big hitter....wow amazing double standards 

 M nt saying dhoni approach is gr8 and i m clearly using the word dip and not being same again n again

The point is both is causing some loss to the team at start n end and there is no denying in that 

 

But i have never said drop rohit, coz he aint the worst and at present i dnt see a better option similary dhoni aint the worst and no option has proven to be better till now 

 

I have issue with someone like yuvraj who clearly doesnt contribute in anyway . 

 

With every player ull find some issue leaving kohli aside, thats were i feel pointing out only dhoni is wrong 

and we have to understand playing after so many yrs there wud be some affect which has happened to most cricketers. The point is has he done so bad to deserve such lynch mob or to be Dropped. Noooooo

 

Yes S/r have dipped thats his problem, everyone has some problem

Come overseas half team will go missing 

Come pressure situation whole team will go missing

Come collapse, no one take charges, atleast this guys has tried and won some n lost some 

 

He clearly aint at his best....but certainely not the worst thing in the team to use words like torture or single out reason for team's debacle in a big tournament 

 

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6 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 M nt saying dhoni approach is gr8 and i m clearly using the word dip and not being same again n again

The point is both is causing some loss to the team at start n end and there is no denying in that 

 

But i have never said drop rohit, coz he aint the worst and at present i dnt see a better option similary dhoni aint the worst and no option has proven to be better till now 

 

I have issue with someone like yuvraj who clearly doesnt contribute in anyway . 

 

With every player ull find some issue leaving kohli aside, thats were i feel pointing out only dhoni is wrong 

and we have to understand playing after so many yrs there wud be some affect which has happened to most cricketers. The point is has he done so bad to deserve such lynch mob or to be Dropped. Noooooo

 

Yes S/r have dipped thats his problem, everyone has some problem

Come overseas half team will go missing 

Come pressure situation whole team will go missing

Come collapse, no one take charges, atleast this guys has tried and won some n lost some 

 

He clearly aint at his best....but certainely not the worst thing in the team to use words like torture or single out reason for team's debacle in a big tournament 

 

Yuvraj doesnt contribute and yet his two innings ( one against england and the first CT match against Pakistani) is better than whatever Dhoni has done in the last few years.

 

p.s not advocating to bring back yuvi ;)

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29 minutes ago, maniac said:

On one hand you blame Rohit Sharma for starting slow as an "opener" many times over and over when the idea for him is to start slow and then when set try to make up and score big- now I am not saying this approach is good or bad just pointing out your criticism

 

on the other hand you defend less than a run a ball s/r of a lower middle order bat whose role is to be a big hitter....wow amazing double standards 

Because Dhoni offers things that Rohit Sharma doesnt. Dhoni's presence alone is enough to overcome everything else.

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33 minutes ago, maniac said:

On one hand you blame Rohit Sharma for starting slow as an "opener" many times over and over when the idea for him is to start slow and then when set try to make up and score big- now I am not saying this approach is good or bad just pointing out your criticism

:laugh::laugh:

OP exposed.  With him, one way or another, its all about tailunt.  

 

 

Lower SR batsmen have to have higher reliability.   The yardstick in this aspect should be identical for Tailunt and Dhoni - The likes of Dhawan and Hardik Pandya

can be forgiven for getting out cheaply now and then, because they take more risks, and carry the team's momentum with their high SR batting.  Rohit is rightly the opener if fit and available, for his quality performances.  But he has a problem with inconsistency.  And He has the same problem as Dhoni with poor strike rotation and SR in the early part of his innings.  Both should be criticized, and rightly so, for this issue.  

Edited by sandeep

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10 minutes ago, sandeep said:

I think the next time tailunt tuk tuks his way to another typical 35 ball 20 and gets out with a limp impotent shot, one of the Dhoni-fanbois should open a "When will the torture end" thread.  :p:

Then his reply would be openers job is to tuk tuk and middle orders job is to hit @ 200sr:phehe: Troll ko seriously mat le bro

Edited by Rasgulla

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48 minutes ago, sandeep said:

I think the next time tailunt tuk tuks his way to another typical 35 ball 20 and gets out with a limp impotent shot, one of the Dhoni-fanbois should open a "When will the torture end" thread.  :p:

What will be the difference between obsessed troll and real fans? :giggle: 

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1 hour ago, Laaloo said:

Yuvraj doesnt contribute and yet his two innings ( one against england and the first CT match against Pakistani) is better than whatever Dhoni has done in the last few years.

 

p.s not advocating to bring back yuvi ;)

i wud have advocated his case had he had some consistency , and he looked woefully out of place in every game 

Then he was also a liability on field which dhoni isnt . Wud have advocated if atleast he was 70-80% fielder he was and wud have consistently given 5-6 overs atleas 

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14 minutes ago, sandeep said:

:laugh:  

 

OK that's funny. But harsh.  Jinxy is one of our top test bats.   No need to diss him just to defend the Dhoni.

How is it dissing him, just a point to say ODI cricket is just not grace n class 

Rahane is top class test player 

20 minutes ago, Lannister said:

Rahane is not a keeper, but Pant is. Anderson called him right, a fat@s.

yea he is a keeper, i like pant.....i think he is good enough to play as batsman 

But 

His keeping hasnt good a good report from Dravid , India-A coach

His batting style is such that u wnt get consistent scores

 

Now dhoni certainly isnt offering high s/r but atleast consistency n responsibility . Lets have some responsible n reliable batsman in our line up who atleast could stand up in collapses apart from kohli then we ll think of adding a lot more firepower. 

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4 hours ago, sscomp32 said:

ylrR1KB.png

:rofl::rofl: 

Its a done deal that these people are going to get burned every time Dhoni scores some runs. As seen plenty of times, they would not be able to digest India winning as well like last few games. Would love to see Dhoni continue till 2019 with the form he is in. And this talk about consolidation n hitting prowess will go all out of the window. This guy will still do whatever is needed. Its just these chuchas who doesnt understand cricket will keep on shouting every game as they wont be able to bear him scoring runs and India winning. The team(new, old), the Captain - everyone knows how important he is and he should continue and rightly so with the form he is in.

Keep Calm and let the chuchas bark, like the boss in the picture above !!!

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1 hour ago, Shunya said:

Its a done deal that these people are going to get burned every time Dhoni scores some runs. As seen plenty of times, they would not be able to digest India winning as well like last few games. Would love to see Dhoni continue till 2019 with the form he is in. And this talk about consolidation n hitting prowess will go all out of the window. This guy will still do whatever is needed. Its just these chuchas who doesnt understand cricket will keep on shouting every game as they wont be able to bear him scoring runs and India winning. The team(new, old), the Captain - everyone knows how important he is and he should continue and rightly so with the form he is in.

Keep Calm and let the chuchas bark, like the boss in the picture above !!!

The koolaid is strong with this one. @sandeep i think shunya is one of those PR guys :cantstop:

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7 minutes ago, Vilander said:

hey i thought Indian team won with a riddiculous margin and put up a big daddy score..

 

 

 

 

i checked again they did. What is this thread on about ?

Some of the posters here needed to get their daily anti-Dhoni circle-jerk done.  They're frustrated until they do so. 

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3 hours ago, sandeep said:

Some of the posters here needed to get their daily anti-Dhoni circle-jerk done.  They're frustrated until they do so. 

Or nobody rates this win as high as him. Currently Afghanistan can win easily against SL. Even if win margin was as much as runs scored by India nobody gives a f. And that's how it should be.

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7 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

yea he is a keeper, i like pant.....i think he is good enough to play as batsman 

But 

His keeping hasnt good a good report from Dravid , India-A coach

His batting style is such that u wnt get consistent scores

You guys were saying the same thing about Saha, didn't ya? Now he's left Dhoni behind in the dust. How long do you think it will take for Pant to do the same or any other keeper for that matter? 

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1 hour ago, Pollack said:

Or nobody rates this win as high as him. Currently Afghanistan can win easily against SL. Even if win margin was as much as runs scored by India nobody gives a f. And that's how it should be.

Let them be. When dhoni is struggling and lunging against better opposition,these chamchas will have hundred threads on what went wrong. The answer is in front of them. We can do our best to make them face reality. In the end, they have to accept it.

 

But yeah we're haters because we're not taking our shirts off because dhoni is blocking a full toss in the 47th over. 

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1 hour ago, jf1gp_1 said:

Had it not been for Dhoni this series could have been levelled at 2-2 and had he hit 2 6s and got out rather than build a smart innings like he did yesterday we might have scored 320.

Wish it was leveled 2-2 so we could make the appropriate changes and prepare for real competition. These hollow wins don't really mean anything. You can parade all you want though. I'll wait till the WC which we can only win once dhoni is out of the picture. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, MCcricket said:

Mahinder Singh TUK TUK, sad to see him bat like this. cannot place, connect just looks ugly for himself n team, but no one wants to read the writing on the wall for last three years

But his presence.......... :adore:

 

Never mind the fact that his presence is the reason why one of the best talent in years we have had has to wait on the sidelines.......

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Don't think we are going to get someone like Dhoni anytime soon. Yes, Dhoni is fading but we first need our 4 and 6 settle down. Rahul needs to establish himself at 4. One of Pandey or Jadhav need to establish themselves and become dependable. Only then we can think about Dhoni. Right now, we are highly dependent on top 3. I will still play Rahul at 4. Sending pandya at 4 wasn't the best idea, tbh. Rahul should have batted at 4.

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13 hours ago, maniac said:

Team is doing well is the point.....as a lower order hitter he is going to be a baggage against bigger teams as he has been. Define doing well???

True, team is doing well and so is he.

He was instrumental in two wins with his batting support.

 

As a batsman , he is doing fine.

As a wkt keeper,I feel he has regressed a bit.

 

 

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1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

Don't think we are going to get someone like Dhoni anytime soon. Yes, Dhoni is fading but we first need our 4 and 6 settle down. Rahul needs to establish himself at 4. One of Pandey or Jadhav need to establish themselves and become dependable. Only then we can think about Dhoni. Right now, we are highly dependent on top 3. I will still play Rahul at 4. Sending pandya at 4 wasn't the best idea, tbh. Rahul should have batted at 4.

I agree about sending pandya early i didnt like that also but not for rahul,i am not liking this idea of rahul at 4 , he so far has looked out of place

 

In so far as dhoni is concerned , i think player like dhoni is needed provided he doesnt try to play till last over in chases requiring high run rate,he needs to be more flexible with his approach.I think most of his critics have this apprehension about his batting abilities.I guess he thinks he can ace big chases by being silent partner to likes of pandya,jadhav etc  and be the hero in the end but that is not happening in big chases now.Having said all that i like him in the middle order for these chases,even in those two small chases i knew he wont get out and we will win till he is there

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1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

Don't think we are going to get someone like Dhoni anytime soon. Yes, Dhoni is fading but we first need our 4 and 6 settle down. Rahul needs to establish himself at 4. One of Pandey or Jadhav need to establish themselves and become dependable. Only then we can think about Dhoni. Right now, we are highly dependent on top 3. I will still play Rahul at 4. Sending pandya at 4 wasn't the best idea, tbh. Rahul should have batted at 4.

Same was said about Dhoni in tests. Many said even if he is not an excellent test batsman or keeper India would struggle to replace him. Saha was even ridiculed by a few. And see how Saha has improved tremendously in keeping and batting to an extent once given a chance. I bet we wouldn't miss dhoni in ODIs once he is dropped. Someone would replace him, take some time and who knows better than dhoni ever was.

 

Regarding a responsible batsman at lower order: Tell me how can someone learn taking responsibility when dhoni bats lower order.? If you know what I mean. While batting with dhoni batsman at the other end has to invariably take more risks. Remember most often than not his place in the team is on line. I don't think he can learn anything simply because he wouldn't be handled that responsibility.

   I believe other method may work better. This method is to have inexperienced but potential players in lower order. They would lose a few matches and would realise early (nobody likes to lose) about learning to take responsibility. With dhoni in one end taking responsibility (read tuk tuking for own sake :laugh: ) other end would be too busy to learn anything.

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6 minutes ago, Pollack said:

Same was said about Dhoni in tests. Many said even if he is not an excellent test batsman or keeper India would struggle to replace him. Saha was even ridiculed by a few. And see how Saha has improved tremendously in keeping and batting to an extent once given a chance. I bet we wouldn't miss dhoni in ODIs once he is dropped. Someone would replace him, take some time and who knows better than dhoni ever was.

 

Regarding a responsible batsman at lower order: Tell me how can someone learn taking responsibility when dhoni bats lower order.? If you know what I mean. While batting with dhoni batsman at the other end has to invariably take more risks. Remember most often than not his place in the team is on line. I don't think he can learn anything simply because he wouldn't be handled that responsibility.

   I believe other method may work better. This method is to have inexperienced but potential players in lower order. They would lose a few matches and would realise early (nobody likes to lose) about learning to take responsibility. With dhoni in one end taking responsibility (read tuk tuking for own sake :laugh: ) other end would be too busy to learn anything.

When dhoni retired from tests, we had pujara, kohli, rahane already well established test players. Dhoni anyway was never indispensable as a test player or had the kind of impact he had in ODIs. Right now, we have a shallow middle order in LOIs. we need to fix that first.  Dhoni is part of that middle order but he isn't our biggest issue. Rahul, jadhav and pandey are. 

Edited by rkt.india

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3 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

When dhoni retired from tests, we had pujara, kohli, rahane already well established test players. Dhoni anyway was never indispensable as a test player or had the kind of impact he had in ODIs. Right now, we have a shallow middle order in LOIs. we need to fix that first.  

And I think trial and error method is more suitable. Read last paragraph of my previous post. Why afraid of losing meaningless bilateral? Let the team be vulnerable. They would most likely learn a lot from losing.

Edited by Pollack

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1 hour ago, Pollack said:

And I think trial and error method is more suitable. Read last paragraph of my previous post. Why afraid of losing meaningless bilateral? Let the team be vulnerable. They would most likely learn a lot from losing.

We are already doing trial and error with likes of Rahul, Jadhav, Pandey, Pandya. Let them settle first. 

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