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How did Bhuvneshwar Kumar survive this long in one-day setup?


Lannister

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Since the start of 2015, his average against better teams:

155 against Aus

137 against Eng

41 against SA.

Today's 5-fer against SL is going to come back and bite us in the back, if we were to take him to the next Worldcup tournament. The same thing will just repeat again, Aus/Eng/SA will smash our bowlers and pile on 300+ runs and we will crumble while chasing. 

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24 minutes ago, Lannister said:

That's just a myth I guess.

His Economy rates:

5.77 against Aus

6.85 against Eng

6.58 against SA

 

Simple answer: we dont have a group of Marshalls and Steyns waiting in the dugout to be picked. In ODIs, he does a pretty decent job of containing runs against most teams. Others would fare like how Shardul bowled like today on most days.

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17 minutes ago, NareshK said:

Simple answer: we dont have a group of Marshalls and Steyns waiting in the dugout to be picked. In ODIs, he does a pretty decent job of containing runs against most teams. Others would fare like how Shardul bowled like today on most days.

You should go and watch the  way SA batsmen took him apart in one of the bilateral series. Why do you want to invest on such bowlers when you already know  the end result? By the way, Steyn's stats looks average in ODIs. 

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30 minutes ago, Sgattick10 said:

Lack of options, we dont have a battery of fast bowlers waiting in the wings. Bhuvi has done reasonably well to cement a place in LoI. Also he has improved a lot in pace and variety in last 12 months or so. 

The same thing was said about before Bumrah came into the picture. Its just a poor excuse for not giving opportunities to youngsters. 

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44 minutes ago, NareshK said:

Simple answer: we dont have a group of Marshalls and Steyns waiting in the dugout to be picked. In ODIs, he does a pretty decent job of containing runs against most teams. Others would fare like how Shardul bowled like today on most days.

If they are not in dugouts then bring them to dugouts. Being satisfied with mediocrity results in Ishant Sharma and I am sure you would like to defend him as well giving same absurd logic. If one doesn't have talent in quad we need to keep trying finding one till we get our Marshalls and Steyn. If we are satisfied with mediocrity how shall we unearth Marshalls and Steyns?

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44 minutes ago, Sgattick10 said:

Lack of options, we dont have a battery of fast bowlers waiting in the wings. 

 

We have a battery of fast bowlers developing fast for ODIs .... Siraj and  Thampi are already playing for our A-team in List A.

 

Khejroliya, Nathu and Nagarkoti are doing very well in List A too.

 

 

Edited by express bowling
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3 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

We have a battery of fast bowlers developing fast for ODIs .... Siraj and  Thampi are already playing for our A-team in List A.

 

Khejroliya, Nathu and Nagarkoti are doing very well in List A too.

 

 

Among current lot of bowlers everyone except Shami and bumrah are replaceable by the new lot you mentioned in ODIs. It should happen sooner rather than later.

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1 hour ago, Lannister said:

Since the start of 2015, his average against better teams:

155 against Aus

137 against Eng

41 against SA.

Today's 5-fer against SL is going to come back and bite us in the back, if we were to take him to the next Worldcup tournament. The same thing will just repeat again, Aus/Eng/SA will smash our bowlers and pile on 300+ runs and we will crumble while chasing. 

    I think he really improved his one day bowling after 2016 IPL  and areas of improvement were : 

    1. Bowling at the death . He can bowl most of the time accurate yorkers.

    2. Bit unpredictability at death overs   can bowl yorkers, wide yorkers/ full pitch deliveries.

    3. Good bouncers .

    4. Added pace

    But in his opening spell , he is not  getting much wickets - thts the negative part. 

     Can you please list out his figures post June 2016 to till date ? 

   Also if we can find a really good death bowler he is easily replacable .  but right now i do not think we have any ready made package  for death bowling .         

 

 

   

 

 

  

 

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30 minutes ago, Pollack said:

If they are not in dugouts then bring them to dugouts. Being satisfied with mediocrity results in Ishant Sharma and I am sure you would like to defend him as well giving same absurd logic. If one doesn't have talent in quad we need to keep trying finding one till we get our Marshalls and Steyn. If we are satisfied with mediocrity how shall we unearth Marshalls and Steyns?

 

40 minutes ago, Lannister said:

The same thing was said about before Bumrah came into the picture. Its just a poor excuse for not giving opportunities to youngsters. 

The idea that these youngsters are better than Bhuvi and they are world class just exists in your mind. For some idiots, whoever is not in the side is better irrespective of how good they actually are. In any case, if they are good they will get their chances eventually and they will replace Bhuvi. At the moment, he is one of the better options we got and hence playing in the X1. Simple as that.

Edited by NareshK
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Because ODI bowling average these days is overrated when one can see he was bowling better than his bowling average suggests. Also his pst average was bad so it will take some time for him to fix that average. This is the reason why most were asking for his inclusion.  

 

For example on similar lines, Bumrah has been brilliant for us in bilaterals but he has had kind of faded at crucial situation like say in playoffs where he has bowled no balls etc at crucial stages, yet we continue to play him because he is still the best in India in terms of death bowling and still better than most ODI bowlers in India. Similarly, Bhuvi is one of the best in India regardless of his ordinary average as he has improved a lot since his early days and with the game going crazy batting friendly, he has done fine.

 

 

But important thing is that now with the bowlers waiting to get chance like Thampi, Khejroliya, Rajpoot etc, we have good pool of ODi bowlers to rotate around and then finally be ready for the 2019 wc, and among those prospects I mentioned, Bhuvi and Bumrah and Shami need to be rotated as they bring the experience and mixture of youth and experience will make us a really good ODI side.

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, prudent_kreeda said:

    I think he really improved his one day bowling after 2016 IPL  and areas of improvement were : 

    1. Bowling at the death . He can bowl most of the time accurate yorkers.

    2. Bit unpredictability at death overs   can bowl yorkers, wide yorkers/ full pitch deliveries.

    3. Good bouncers .

    4. Added pace

    But in his opening spell , he is not  getting much wickets - thts the negative part. 

     Can you please list out his figures post June 2016 to till date ? 

   Also if we can find a really good death bowler he is easily replacable .  but right now i do not think we have any ready made package  for death bowling .         

 

 

   

 

 

  

 

Death bowling has more relevance in T20s, irrespective of how many wickets you take. But in ODIs, wickets and average are the two most important aspects for a bowler's success.

Edited by Lannister
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The main thing is developing a pool of international quality pacers

 

Advantages are -- 

  • Competition so that "playing-11 pacers "  are forced to improve and are kept on their toes.
  • If they don't perform, they will be replaaced.
  • Cover for injury
  • Allows rotation and giving rest to pacers
  • Provides options for horses for courses policy
  • Allows youngsters to develop while the experienced pacers assume primary responsibility in matches
  • Allows smooth transition from one set of pacers to another, as the earlier set grows older
  • Creates a fast bowling culture in the country and team and pacers are fitter, quicker and more wily as they learn from each other.

 

We are well on our way to that.  

 

Tests -- Shami, Umesh, Ishant, Bhuvi, Pandya,  Bumrah ( may come in )

 

ODIs -- Bumrah, Shami, Bhuvi, Pandya, Umesh, Shardul

 

A-teams -- Siraj, Thampi, Rajpoot, Aniket C,  Saini

 

Next-in-line --  Nathu, Avesh, Nagarkoti, Khejroliya, Milind

 

If this system is fully in place, we won't have to worry about non-performing pacers again.

Edited by express bowling
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3 hours ago, Lannister said:

Since the start of 2015, his average against better teams:

155 against Aus

137 against Eng

41 against SA.

Today's 5-fer against SL is going to come back and bite us in the back, if we were to take him to the next Worldcup tournament. The same thing will just repeat again, Aus/Eng/SA will smash our bowlers and pile on 300+ runs and we will crumble while chasing. 

When umesh stats sucked and sucked in tests for a long time hypocrites like you made a million excuses. In fact bhuvis test stats are still better than umesh. But you supported him, as pace. All of a sudden when it comes to odis, its all about stats.

 

Admit it, if bhuvi clocked as much as umesh, you wouldn't even look at stats

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