Dhoni's standing in the pantheon of ODI legends/greats?

[Khota]

14 minutes ago, Rasgulla said:

How were Kohli's stats from 2008 to 2015 in IPL? Hell even Raina had good 2017 season according to your khote logic he should be ahead of everyone in that squad cause he has most runs. More you post.. more Retarded you sound 

 

1.Allbowlers are like unicorns.. They don't exist

2 . IPL stats are more valid than Intl cricket LOL

With your poor attitude I should not be responding to you but I will take the high road.

Simple example is Dhawan. He did well in IPL and that has translated into everything he has done since.

Kohli case I have explained before.

Dhoni OTOH was the rock bottom and it still shows.

I hope he comes out of this slump but I think all other batsman will do better.

Anything can happen but the underline trend of decline for Dhoni is there.

[Ankit_sharma03]

8 minutes ago, Khota said:

Please read the question again. He specifically said T20. If ODI then you are correct.

I dont look around for approval. I feel something and I state it. The idea is to learn and people agreeing with me is the least of my objectives.

Just because you have a mob that agrees with you does not make you right.

Yea i knw what his question was and ur answer made no sense ......

The point is u dnt seek to learn, u keep screaming im right im right.......good way to learn btw 

IF ur right atleast ull find some approval , here ur own logic doesnt support u 

Just because you have a mob that agrees with you does not make you right.- yea right ur learning

 

[Rasgulla]

6 minutes ago, Khota said:

With your poor attitude I should not be responding to you but I will take the high road.

Simple example is Dhawan. He did well in IPL and that has translated into everything he has done since.

Kohli case I have explained before.

Dhoni OTOH was the rock bottom and it still shows.

I hope he comes out of this slump but I think all other batsman will do better.

Anything can happen but the underline trend of decline for Dhoni is there.

Dhawan played well in IPLs? what is that explained before crap? LOL talk about dodging questions and rest Is full of khote BS as usual. What about gambhir and Raina who had great IPL what do we do with them LOL

[Khota]

7 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Yea i knw what his question was and ur answer made no sense ......

The point is u dnt seek to learn, u keep screaming im right im right.......good way to learn btw 

IF ur right atleast ull find some approval , here ur own logic doesnt support u 

Just because you have a mob that agrees with you does not make you right.- yea right ur learning

 

You are the one who has stuff in bold. I think you are the one raising his voice.

[Rasgulla]

7 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Yea i knw what his question was and ur answer made no sense ......

The point is u dnt seek to learn, u keep screaming im right im right.......good way to learn btw 

IF ur right atleast ull find some approval , here ur own logic doesnt support u 

Just because you have a mob that agrees with you does not make you right.- yea right ur learning

 

I doubt even they agree with the retarded statements he is making... Basically he said IPL stats are more valid than Intl stats and All rounders don't exist

[Khota]

1 minute ago, Rasgulla said:

Dhawan played well in IPLs? what is that explained before crap? LOL talk about dodging questions and rest Is full of khote BS as usual. What about gambhir and Raina who had great IPL what do we do with them LOL

Gambhir should have been selected and that was a big mistake not to select him.

Raina I am confused about. Someone said he failed the yo yo test. If true he should not have been selected. Yo Yo is an important metrics if done correctly.

[Khota]

3 minutes ago, Rasgulla said:

I doubt even they agree with the retarded statements he is making... Basically he said IPL stats are more valid than Intl stats and All rounders don't exist

Arguing with a retard - what does that make you?

If an allrounder comes once in a lifetime why waste time. Should not be a difficult concept.

Edited September 16, 2017 by Khota

[BeautifulGame]

Fair question.
Middle order batsman is not supposed to score a century. He is only supposed to accelerate the run rate.
If you are really truly a middle order maybe 5 down you are most likely not that good to begin with.
If I am the coach my top bats will go first.

So teams should only accelerate once they lose 2 wickets based on your logic ?

A middle order batsmen comes in at 2 down not 5 down.

Middle order is supposed to build innings and then accelerate towards the end .Have u seen Aravinda De Silva or De Villiers bat and construct innings .

The one you are referring to is a finisher.

[BeautifulGame]

With your poor attitude I should not be responding to you but I will take the high road. Simple example is Dhawan. He did well in IPL and that has translated into everything he has done since.

Kohli case I have explained before.

Dhoni OTOH was the rock bottom and it still shows.

I hope he comes out of this slump but I think all other batsman will do better.

Anything can happen but the underline trend of decline for Dhoni is there.

 

Lol Dhawan sucked in 2015/2014 IPL and was the best player for India in 2015 world cup for India .Please explain that too 

 

 

There is no correlation here.Dhawan has been excellent for India in ODIs before and after IPL.whether he has poor IPL or not.

 

If you know Indian cricket, then should know Dhawan sucks in T20s too for India .

 

IPL form has zero impact for players like Dhawan and Yuvi.

 

 

[Khota]

7 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

So teams should only accelerate once they lose 2 wickets based on your logic ?

A middle order batsmen comes in at 2 down not 5 down.

Middle order is supposed to build innings and then accelerate towards the end .Have u seen Aravinda De Silva or De Villiers bat and construct innings .

The one you are referring to is a finisher.
 

This is what you asked:

"How do you judge the ability of a middle order batsman to construct century based on IPL stats ."

My response was all in context of IPL and then you changed the topic to ODI. 

When I was coached cricket 2 down was top order not middle order. When did 2 down become middle order. can you explain?

Once again someone coming at 5 down has to accelarate in T20. he better have  SR of more than ball a run.

I did like your question because you asked fair one instead of hurling insults.

thanks!

 

[Khota]

9 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

Lol Dhawan sucked in 2015 IPL and was the best player for India in 2015 world cup for India .Please explain that too

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/indian-premier-league-2015/engine/records/averages/batting_bowling_by_team.html?id=9657;team=5143;type=tournament

 

There is no correlation here.Dhawan has been excellent for India in ODIs before and after IPL.whether he has poor IPL or not.

 

If you know Indian cricket, then should know Dhawan sucks in T20s too for India .

 

IPL form has zero impact for players like Dhawan and Yuvi.

I will just dwell on your last sentence because this answers everything I am trying to say.

Yuvraj had a ver poor IPL 2017 outing. His performance is reflected in CT. If there is one to one correlation you can see with respect to Dhawan and Yuvraj,

Just remember IPL like any other stats will always have outliers that are hard to explain but the underline trends of IPL cannot be discarded.

Let us keep it civil unlike some folks who have been nothing but abusive on the forum. That goes against the spirit of any discussion.

I could very well be wrong but watching and playing cricket for long time I can tell you that cricket stats taken straigt up are wrong. IPL is a better predictor.

[BeautifulGame]

This is what you asked:
"How do you judge the ability of a middle order batsman to construct century based on IPL stats ."
My response was all in context of IPL and then you changed the topic to ODI. 
When I was coached cricket 2 down was top order not middle order. When did 2 down become middle order. can you explain?
Once again someone coming at 5 down has to accelarate in T20. he better have  SR of more than ball a run.
I did like your question because you asked fair one instead of hurling insults.
thanks!
 

The whole debate here was about odi selection based on IPL stats from your self.So I thought it was self explanatory.

Eitherway I should repeat again I suppose.How do you judge the ability of a middle order bat to construct an innings in odi cricket based on IPL stats.

If you have a different definition for middle or then explain how do you determine the ability of a top order batsman to construct hundreds in odi cricket based on IPL stats .
.

P.S
Universally no.4 is consider middle order in cricket.Can check statsguru to confirm .

[BeautifulGame]

I will just dwell on your last sentence because this answers everything I am trying to say.
Yuvraj had a ver poor IPL 2017 outing. His performance is reflected in CT. If there is one to one correlation you can see with respect to Dhawan and Yuvraj,
Just remember IPL like any other stats will always have outliers that are hard to explain but the underline trends of IPL cannot be discarded.
Let us keep it civil unlike some folks who have been nothing but abusive on the forum. That goes against the spirit of any discussion.
I could very well be wrong but watching and playing cricket for long time I can tell you that cricket stats taken straigt up are wrong. IPL is a better predictor.

No ,Yuvi sucked in International and domestic cricket including IPL.Hence his struggles are understandable.

Not just because he struggled in IPL.Yuvraj averaged 20 in the Vijay Hazare trophy

So no one doesn't need to look at his stats in IPL to see his form.

We have 50 overs cricket to judge his metrics perfectly.

[Khota]

18 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

The whole debate here was about odi selection based on IPL stats from your self.So I thought it was self explanatory.

Eitherway I should repeat again I suppose.How do you judge the ability of a middle order bat to construct an innings in odi cricket based on IPL stats.

If you have a different definition for middle or then explain how do you determine the ability of a top order batsman to construct hundreds in odi cricket based on IPL stats .
.

P.S
Universally no.4 is consider middle order in cricket.Can check statsguru to confirm .



 

You mentioned middle order starts at two. That is besides the point.

Once again if you are doing well in IPL chances are you will do well in ODI. I am not sure about test but someone can look into that.

 

The top order who is doing well in IPL will most likely do well in ODI. That will work out.

Bottomline is if you can accumulate runs in IPL you will do it in international too compare to your fellow teammates who struggled in IPL.

It is very hard for me to believe if you performed well in IPL then mysteriously within a month you will perform bad in CT and vice versa.

Edited September 17, 2017 by Khota

[Khota]

9 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

No ,Yuvi sucked in International and domestic cricket including IPL.Hence his struggles are understandable.

Not just because he struggled in IPL.Yuvraj averaged 20 in the Vijay Hazare trophy

So no one doesn't need to look at his stats in IPL to see his form.

We have 50 overs cricket to judge his metrics perfectly.

So why was he selected. Every metrics pointed to a looming failure and the team management picked him. Like you mentioned other formats pointed to that and IPL exposed him, My gripe is why was he selected? He should not have been on the team but I fault Kohli for that.

[BeautifulGame]

You mentioned middle order starts at two. Let us not redefine.
Once again if you are doing well in IPL chances are you will do well in ODI. I am not sure about test but someone can look into that.
 
The top order who is doing well in IPL will most likely do well in ODI. That will work out.
Bottomline is if you can accumulate runs in IPL you will do it in international too compare to your fellow teammates who struggled in IPL.
It is very hard for me to believe if you performed well in IPL then mysteriously within a month you will perform bad in CT and vice versa.

Yes it does.I said middle order starts at 2 down.Which is no.4 batsman.
So where is the redefining?

That isn't what I asked.O asked how do you judge the ability of a top/middle order batsman to construct an innings and score hundred based on IPL stats .

As for the bolded part, Really? Paul Valthathy , Sourab Tiwary, Asnodkar and plenty more are proof to the contrary .

Are they all gonna be treated as outliners as well?

It maybe hard for you to believe but yes IPL stats aren't the sole metrics for Indian cricket.There are plenty more cricket India play and lot more other metrics which determine how a player will/should be choosen depending the the position he is playing.

The fact that you are propping for Gambhir selection sums it up.Almost everyone here , Indian management and heck Gambhir himself disagrees with your assessment of that but you are somehow correct ?

This is from Gambhir himself before CT selection

Absolutely, I totally agree [that T20 numbers should not be the sole criteria for ODI selection]," Gambhir told ESPNcricinfo. "T20 runs should only be a criteria to get selected for a T20 side. The moment you start picking players in the one-day format by their T20 performance, then you are giving your domestic 50-over competitions absolutely no relevance."

[BeautifulGame]

So why was he selected. Every metrics pointed to a looming failure and the team management picked him. Like you mentioned other formats pointed to that and IPL exposed him, My gripe is why was he selected? He should not have been on the team but I fault Kohli for that.

Poor selections happen.When you are arguably India's greatest performer in big tournaments , exceptions tend to be made.

He had a good England series and selected based on that.It turned out to be wrong.

If I remember correctly ,you suggested Rohit should be dropped based on IPL form.Yet he was our second best bat in the tournament.

So IPL stats are just one of the metrics not the sole metric to judge a player.

[MCcricket]

Looks like pants down n Dhonis panties r in a twist, can even get in line of the ball or make contact, embarrassment.

[velu]

GOAT

[BeautifulGame]

GOAT

Damn beat me to it lol.

GOAT