Austin 3:!6 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 I have noticed this lad in IPL and must say he is one for the future. He can be our next Ravi Ashwin and hence need more exposure in international cricket. I would play him in Indian ODI/T20 team ahead of Chahal. Hope selectors wont delay his selection in national side like they are doing for Pant. Link to comment
SK_IH Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 the thing is there are so many good players around,some of these youngsters will keep getting ignored,its unfortunate Link to comment
Forever Indian Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Comparison with Ashwin is not valid as Ashwin is primarly a test allrounder. I don't see Sundar having much impact in tests as he doesn't spin the ball. But definitely is a very wily bowler and should be in ODI team soon. At one point Sundar was both the highest wicket taker and Runs scorer in TNPL this year. This guy is too good for that level and also proved to be an excellent bowler in IPL. Should be given a run in List A matches this season and if he continues to impress should be got into ODI team. His batting is also very good I believe, but we haven't seen it much yet. Link to comment
Austin 3:!6 Posted September 12, 2017 Author Share Posted September 12, 2017 4 minutes ago, Forever Indian said: Comparison with Ashwin is not valid as Ashwin is primarly a test allrounder. I don't see Sundar having much impact in tests as he doesn't spin the ball. But definitely is a very wily bowler and should be in ODI team soon. At one point Sundar was both the highest wicket taker and Runs scorer in TNPL this year. This guy is too good for that level and also proved to be an excellent bowler in IPL. Should be given a run in List A matches this season and if he continues to impress should be got into ODI team. His batting is also very good I believe, but we haven't seen it much yet. Ashwin was a very good T20/ODI bowler when started. MichaelAmbut 1 Link to comment
sandeep Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 No need to rush him. Kid's not even 20 yet. And its not like we don't have other options. Let him get more experience. At least another season or 2. JaFanatic and Ankit_sharma03 1 1 Link to comment
SK_IH Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 8 minutes ago, sandeep said: No need to rush him. Kid's not even 20 yet. And its not like we don't have other options. Let him get more experience. At least another season or 2. this is what has become wrong with our system ,why cant 16-17 year old debut for india if he is good. JaFanatic 1 Link to comment
Ankit_sharma03 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 (edited) Let him play domestic, spinner get better with time and as they bowl more . As of now Kuldeep, chahal and Axar needs a regular run . There are enough A games happening and he can be added in those squads. Against NZ-A in ODI's sundar n rahul chahar both can be given chances Edited September 12, 2017 by Ankit_sharma03 sandeep 1 Link to comment
puneet28 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Calm down. Similar things were said about Baba Aprajith. I personally rate him higher, but don't know why he's not in spotlight. There are plenty of young players but they need to perform day in day out because of competition we have in our team now. Link to comment
Kerberos Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 1 hour ago, sandeep said: No need to rush him. Kid's not even 20 yet. And its not like we don't have other options. Let him get more experience. At least another season or 2. India does not have too many off break options. Besides age is just a number. Cliché as it may sound. Sundar is a defensive bowler who creates pressure and pick wicket as a consequence to it. Start him in T20s now. Bye Bye Ashwin and Jadeja. Link to comment
sandeep Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, SK_IH said: this is what has become wrong with our system ,why cant 16-17 year old debut for india if he is good. There is ghanta wrong with our system, when it comes to giving opportunities to young players. How old was Tendulkar when he debuted? Go check how old Harbhajan was when he first played for India. Or Sivaramkrishnan. Or for more recent examples, Rohit Sharma and Pawan Negi. If a young player is good enough, and has a skill-set that fits a role that's needed for the team, our selectors have never shied away from handing out a debut to a teenager. In Negi's case, we needed a left-arm spinner to back up Ashwin for T20s, prefereably one that could come in and slog a few big hits. And Negi was given the opportunity. Not saying he was a great selection or anything, just an example of a young player getting the call when a role was identified and he was judged to be a good fit. Does the Indian team need an off-spinner for white-ball cricket? If Ashwin is not playing, there's Kuldeep Yadav, who should get maximum number of games - ODIs and T20s, between now and the ODI world cup in 2019. Why do we need to pick Sundar over Kuldeep? You can even argue that potentially a Parvez Rasool is a more selectable option, given that he also bowls off-spin and can actually bat at #6. What's actually best for Team India, and for Washington Sundar - is to provide him with ample opportunities to keep polishing his skills, give him a chance to play against visiting teams - like our system just did. Select him for A tours whenever possible. This way, he can compete against high level oppositions, and keep working on his skill-set. Potentially evolving into an even better cricketer than what he is today. Put yourself in a young cricketer's shoes, and think with a bit of logic and maturity - if you are given the chance to play for Team India, are you going to keep experimenting? Or are you going to "stick to the basics" and do what works best for you? Picking a bowler, especially a spinner, a bit early, runs the risk of stagnating his development curve, potentially putting an early ceiling on his potential. And still, if the team balance requires that we need a player of a specific type, and a young guy happens to be the best for that role, he should be picked without hesitation. Sundar has had a good IPL season, and is rated highly in the domestic circuit as one for the future, so he clearly has the potential. Where is the crying need to rush him right now? If only to satisfy the "new name" itch that so many foolish fanbois seem to have. And the same foolish fanbois will be quick to write the same hyped player off, if he has a couple of ordinary games. On to the next fashionable name. And then keep blaming the "system". And I haven't brought up the fairness aspect of selection - you want to make sure that all players within your system, beyond the national squad, are well motivated and working hard to compete amongst themselves. If you randomly just pick players and have them "skip the queue", what will you tell the likes of Shahbaz Nadeem, etc? There has to be a general method and progression to a player getting to the national team - they have to keep putting up quality performances at every rung of the ladder - be it IPL, Ranji trophy, Syed Mushtaq Ali, A tours etc. Of course, exceptions can be made in case of truly brilliant prospects, and primarily when the situation and team balance calls for it. None of this is the case for Sundar right now. The "System" should be praised for giving our young players the proper opportunities. Sundar's time will come. And it will come sooner rather than later, if he's good enough and continues to put up performances. Edited September 12, 2017 by sandeep Samcric, tweaker and Ironhide 3 Link to comment
Gollum Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 (edited) Whenever I have seen Sundar, I have been impressed. Kid looks like the real deal, he is an improved version of Krunal Pandya. 2019 deadline is more or less over but hope he gets into the team after that. He can be an asset for our shorter version teams. TN is brimming with talent right now. Even Karnataka was in a similar stage 3 years back but only Rahul and to a lesser extent Karun Nair had the talent to play for India successfully. For TN they have future ATG Ashwin, a solid test opener in Vijay and guys like Mukund, Vijay Shankar, Washington Sundar, Baba Aparijith and Dinesh Karthik(I hope not) on the sidelines. Even the likes of M. Ashwin, Natarajan and Crist are good enough(and young !!!) to play for India A at some point. Expect TNPL to unleash future stars in the coming editions and Srinu Mama is da man !!!! Edited September 12, 2017 by Gollum The Dark Horse 1 Link to comment
Gollum Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Also hope to see Sai Kishore at some point. Tall(195 cm) SLA with good variations and a feisty attitude. Rubbish batsman but can play as a specialist in T20s at some point. Very very tough to score off. Link to comment
Brainfade Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, sandeep said: There is ghanta wrong with our system, when it comes to giving opportunities to young players. How old was Tendulkar when he debuted? Go check how old Harbhajan was when he first played for India. Or Sivaramkrishnan. Or for more recent examples, Rohit Sharma and Pawan Negi. If a young player is good enough, and has a skill-set that fits a role that's needed for the team, our selectors have never shied away from handing out a debut to a teenager. In Negi's case, we needed a left-arm spinner to back up Ashwin for T20s, prefereably one that could come in and slog a few big hits. And Negi was given the opportunity. Not saying he was a great selection or anything, just an example of a young player getting the call when a role was identified and he was judged to be a good fit. Does the Indian team need an off-spinner for white-ball cricket? If Ashwin is not playing, there's Kuldeep Yadav, who should get maximum number of games - ODIs and T20s, between now and the ODI world cup in 2019. Why do we need to pick Sundar over Kuldeep? You can even argue that potentially a Parvez Rasool is a more selectable option, given that he also bowls off-spin and can actually bat at #6. What's actually best for Team India, and for Washington Sundar - is to provide him with ample opportunities to keep polishing his skills, give him a chance to play against visiting teams - like our system just did. Select him for A tours whenever possible. This way, he can compete against high level oppositions, and keep working on his skill-set. Potentially evolving into an even better cricketer than what he is today. Put yourself in a young cricketer's shoes, and think with a bit of logic and maturity - if you are given the chance to play for Team India, are you going to keep experimenting? Or are you going to "stick to the basics" and do what works best for you? Picking a bowler, especially a spinner, a bit early, runs the risk of stagnating his development curve, potentially putting an early ceiling on his potential. And still, if the team balance requires that we need a player of a specific type, and a young guy happens to be the best for that role, he should be picked without hesitation. Sundar has had a good IPL season, and is rated highly in the domestic circuit as one for the future, so he clearly has the potential. Where is the crying need to rush him right now? If only to satisfy the "new name" itch that so many foolish fanbois seem to have. And the same foolish fanbois will be quick to write the same hyped player off, if he has a couple of ordinary games. On to the next fashionable name. And then keep blaming the "system". And I haven't brought up the fairness aspect of selection - you want to make sure that all players within your system, beyond the national squad, are well motivated and working hard to compete amongst themselves. If you randomly just pick players and have them "skip the queue", what will you tell the likes of Shahbaz Nadeem, etc? There has to be a general method and progression to a player getting to the national team - they have to keep putting up quality performances at every rung of the ladder - be it IPL, Ranji trophy, Syed Mushtaq Ali, A tours etc. Of course, exceptions can be made in case of truly brilliant prospects, and primarily when the situation and team balance calls for it. None of this is the case for Sundar right now. The "System" should be praised for giving our young players the proper opportunities. Sundar's time will come. And it will come sooner rather than later, if he's good enough and continues to put up performances. Good post. Another case in point is Hardik Pandya. Waiting is good, unless, of course, there's this transcendental talent that must be blooded right away - like an SRT. What the system has not been very good at is drafting players when they are in great form and confidence. They made amends by bringing Manish Pandey to SL when in good form. But with someone like Pant or Iyer, they didn't pull the trigger quick enough. Pant regressed and who knows how Iyer will go. While they will both get chances in the future and break the door open if they are good enough, it would've been good to see what they could do when they were riding high already. The trick, of course, it to correctly recognize a transcendental talent and know if it is a good time to blood someone when they are in great form. That's why they are paid the big bucks, and I am just a keyboard selector. Edited September 12, 2017 by Brainfade Link to comment
SecondSlip Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Krunal Pandya should be given chances before Sundar if we are looking for a batting allrounder that bowls spin Link to comment
Kerberos Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 ^ Iyer was no 'transcendal' talent to begin with. Link to comment
sandeep Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 27 minutes ago, Brainfade said: But with someone like Pant or Iyer, they didn't pull the trigger quick enough. Pant regressed and who knows how Iyer will go. Who says Pant regressed? @express bowling thinks he's not quite ready for the big-time yet, especially with top-end fast bowling. Maybe he just needs a bit more time, and the selectors could actually be right in bringing him along slowly, instead of exposing him before he's ready. And while I have a lot of hope for Iyer's talent, he has shown that his temperament still needs a bit of work. This guy is too flashy and cocky for his own good. We don't want to reward arrogant players who insist on doing their own thing. Bit of maturity and recognition of the value of consistency and making it count is missing with this kid. Link to comment
Brainfade Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 55 minutes ago, sandeep said: Who says Pant regressed? @express bowling thinks he's not quite ready for the big-time yet, especially with top-end fast bowling. Maybe he just needs a bit more time, and the selectors could actually be right in bringing him along slowly, instead of exposing him before he's ready. And while I have a lot of hope for Iyer's talent, he has shown that his temperament still needs a bit of work. This guy is too flashy and cocky for his own good. We don't want to reward arrogant players who insist on doing their own thing. Bit of maturity and recognition of the value of consistency and making it count is missing with this kid. Well, he put together a Ranji season for the ages, and seemed to dominate even good bowling (going by my unreliable memory). And then we kept waiting for the selectors to break him in, it never happened, and he seemed to have lost that "edge" when he was finally given an opportunity. Maybe our expectations need to be recalibrated, maybe he really did lost confidence and regress. We will never know, will we? If I did, I wouldn't be wasting my time on a keyboard trying to argue selection with other keyboard selectors now, would I :-)?! As for attitude etc., they said that about Kohli, too. Link to comment
gakgupta Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 2 hours ago, Brainfade said: Good post. Another case in point is Hardik Pandya. Waiting is good, unless, of course, there's this transcendental talent that must be blooded right away - like an SRT. What the system has not been very good at is drafting players when they are in great form and confidence. They made amends by bringing Manish Pandey to SL when in good form. But with someone like Pant or Iyer, they didn't pull the trigger quick enough. Pant regressed and who knows how Iyer will go. While they will both get chances in the future and break the door open if they are good enough, it would've been good to see what they could do when they were riding high already. The trick, of course, it to correctly recognize a transcendental talent and know if it is a good time to blood someone when they are in great form. That's why they are paid the big bucks, and I am just a keyboard selector. Pant hardly played one domestic season and how come you blame the selectors for his bad performance... Infact, any bowler or batsmen numbers should be taken seriously only after playing 2 years of domestic cricket... Pant is surely a serious talent but he needs to sustain his form for years together...(not months together) sandeep 1 Link to comment
gakgupta Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 9 hours ago, Forever Indian said: Comparison with Ashwin is not valid as Ashwin is primarly a test allrounder. I don't see Sundar having much impact in tests as he doesn't spin the ball. But definitely is a very wily bowler and should be in ODI team soon. At one point Sundar was both the highest wicket taker and Runs scorer in TNPL this year. This guy is too good for that level and also proved to be an excellent bowler in IPL. Should be given a run in List A matches this season and if he continues to impress should be got into ODI team. His batting is also very good I believe, but we haven't seen it much yet. I heard that he is allrounder....Infact he started his career as a batsmen but now, he is a bowling - allrounder... But what's working for him as a bowler? He doesn't has a big turn nor the loop....(yes!! he is tall....) Link to comment
Texan Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Isn't he more a batsman who bowls and hasn't really batted well at all at FC level? Link to comment
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