Get Washington Sundar into Indian LOI team already

[sandeep]

1 hour ago, Brainfade said:

As for attitude etc., they said that about Kohli, too.  

I give zero ph.ucks about personal attitude - its his attitude towards batting - he insists on playing his "natural game" regardless of match situation, and has given his wicket away at crucial times.  For the Mumbai Ranji team, and also in the recent A tour to SA.   Flash over substance.  That's what I was referring to.  

[Brainfade]

4 hours ago, gakgupta said:

Pant hardly played one domestic season and how come you blame the selectors for his bad performance...

 

Infact, any bowler or batsmen numbers should be taken seriously only after playing 2 years of domestic cricket...

 

Pant is surely a serious talent but he needs to sustain his form for years together...(not months together)

Blame for bad performance? No. Just wondering about the judgement they have used.  They are paid to know more and are most likely right, but it I still wonder about what might have been if Pant had been blooded when in rousing form, especially when MSD was struggling at that time and we were looking for someone with raw aggression.  With some people (again Hardik Pandya), you may not have to wait years.  We will never know with Pant, because he now has to claw his way back, and you will get your "years, not months" wish.  

Edited September 12, 2017 by Brainfade

[Brainfade]

3 hours ago, sandeep said:

I give zero ph.ucks about personal attitude - its his attitude towards batting - he insists on playing his "natural game" regardless of match situation, and has given his wicket away at crucial times.  For the Mumbai Ranji team, and also in the recent A tour to SA.   Flash over substance.  That's what I was referring to.  

Sheesh ... looks like you got up from the wrong side today!  There is something about a guy who stands up in a tough final under high pressure against a very good attack.  He seems to show up on big occasions and was riding high after the tourney final, and a stint against an international side (SL) may have uncovered a real diamond who has a knack of rising up to the occasion.  Neither you nor I really knows if it would have worked out, but it sure is fun to think about what might have been.  

 

Now, Washington Sundar is a stretch.  It's not like he is taking wickets by the boatload and bamboozling batsmen doing it.  He seems like a solid player who needs to show a lot more.  

Edited September 12, 2017 by Brainfade

[maniac]

8 hours ago, sandeep said:

Who says Pant regressed?  @express bowling thinks he's not quite ready for the big-time yet, especially with top-end fast bowling.   Maybe he just needs a bit more time, and the selectors could actually be right in bringing him along slowly, instead of exposing him before he's ready.   

 

And while I have a lot of hope for Iyer's talent, he has shown that his temperament still needs a bit of work. This guy is too flashy and cocky for his own good.  We don't want to reward arrogant players who insist on doing their own thing.  Bit of maturity and recognition of the value of consistency and making it count is missing with this kid.   

You totally got the Pant part wrong....now this is a point I have to tread very carefully ,so people read carefully....Sachin Tendulkar did not look like a million bucks in his first series by smacking Imran,Wasim,Waqar all over the ground, however he showed grit,resolve,courage sprinkled in (key word here)ability of strokeplay as well as defense. 

 

Now coming to Pant...he had 2 opportunities on paper in international cricket and 1 real opportunity so far and yes he did play a scratchy knock....I mean same game where Evin Lewis looked like the 2nd coming of Richards...one game doesn't tell you anything...Pant was deemed ready based on his heroics in under 19 cricket and the successful transition of that into a purple patch in domestics and then a star making performance in 2 IPLs. I really don't see any obvious weakness in Pant yet because T20 can make anyone look ordinary or like a million bucks on their day and that is the only time I got to watch him apart from under-19

 

Now coming to Sundar....the kid has clearly shown maturity...Ashwin and Jadeja are rested(commonly used for a senior when dropped) and is going through a good patch....no harm in trying him and we already can gauge what we can get with Axar.

 

Pandya or any youngster were not setting domestic ablaze or did not learn any new tricks...they were monitored by giving enough opportunities in between and grooming them.

 

There is no accurate measure of how much domestic cricket one needs to play to become a well oiled machine.That is a bs theory...you either have it or you dont.How many players do you know who went back to domestics and came back and set the world on fire.

 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2017 by maniac

[maniac]

Washington Sundar is going to be a big deal....pull the trigger on him.

 

Pant,Samson,Sundar,Siraj the champions of the future...rest have a while to go before they can impress or show they belong

[SK_IH]

15 hours ago, sandeep said:

There is ghanta wrong with our system, when it comes to giving opportunities to young players.  How old was Tendulkar when he debuted?  Go check how old Harbhajan was when he first played for India.  Or Sivaramkrishnan.  Or for more recent examples, Rohit Sharma and Pawan Negi.    If a young player is good enough, and has a skill-set that fits a role that's needed for the team, our selectors have never shied away from handing out a debut to a teenager.   

 

In Negi's case, we needed a left-arm spinner to back up Ashwin for T20s, prefereably one that could come in and slog a few big hits.  And Negi was given the opportunity.  Not saying he was a great selection or anything, just an example of a young player getting the call when a role was identified and he was judged to be a good fit.

 

Does the Indian team need an off-spinner for white-ball cricket?  If Ashwin is not playing, there's Kuldeep Yadav, who should get maximum number of games - ODIs and T20s, between now and the ODI world cup in 2019.   Why do we need to pick Sundar over Kuldeep?  You can even argue that potentially a Parvez Rasool is a more selectable option, given that he also bowls off-spin and can actually bat at #6.   

 

What's actually best for Team India, and for Washington Sundar - is to provide him with ample opportunities to keep polishing his skills, give him a chance to play against visiting teams - like our system just did.  Select him for A tours whenever possible.  This way, he can compete against high level oppositions, and keep working on his skill-set.  Potentially evolving into an even better cricketer than what he is today.   

 

Put yourself in a young cricketer's shoes, and think with a bit of logic and maturity - if you are given the chance to play for Team India, are you going to keep experimenting? Or are you going to "stick to the basics" and do what works best for you?  Picking a bowler, especially a spinner, a bit early, runs the risk of stagnating his development curve, potentially putting an early ceiling on his potential.   And still, if the team balance requires that we need a player of a specific type, and a young guy happens to be the best for that role, he should be picked without hesitation.  

 

Sundar has had a good IPL season, and is rated highly in the domestic circuit as one for the future, so he clearly has the potential.  Where is the crying need to rush him right now?  If only to satisfy the "new name" itch that so many foolish fanbois seem to have.   And the same foolish fanbois will be quick to write the same hyped player off, if he has a couple of ordinary games.  On to the next fashionable name.   And then keep blaming the "system".     And I haven't brought up the fairness aspect of selection - you want to make sure that all players within your system, beyond the national squad, are well motivated and working hard to compete amongst themselves.  If you randomly just pick players and have them "skip the queue", what will you tell the likes of Shahbaz Nadeem, etc?   There has to be a general method and progression to a player getting to the national team - they have to keep putting up quality performances at every rung of the ladder - be it IPL, Ranji trophy, Syed Mushtaq Ali, A tours etc.  

 

Of course, exceptions can be made in case of truly brilliant prospects, and primarily when the situation and team balance calls for it.  None of this is the case for Sundar right now.   The "System" should be praised for giving our young players the proper opportunities.  

 

Sundar's time will come.  And it will come sooner rather than later, if he's good enough and continues to put up performances.   

before embarking on a rant,you should have atleast read what i wrote.i wrote it has become part of our system we go for this formulaic approach of waiting for players to grind it in domestic cricket,then we will give him chance  approach.

As you said it wasnt the case even till Virat made it to the team but now it seems a u19 star even if he has some sparkle he wont make it instead we will see Faiz Fazal and Rayudu the domestic grinders getting chances for the sake of it ,even rishi dhawan for ffs.

you can carry on with your rant but what i have observed with the india's selections and their policy in genera is there is an inclination to make safe selections

[Khota]

Washington needs to stand in line. There are 5 spinners ahead of him.

[BeautifulGame]

8 hours ago, Texan said:

Isn't he more a batsman who bowls and hasn't really batted well at all at FC level?

 

 

Yes he is batsmàn.And opening Batsman to boot.His bowling is more like part time off spin but has developed a lot watching TNPL.Still very defensive bowler .

 

People are as usual overreacting here.He is a big talent but last he wasn't in the Ranji XI of TN.Used mostly as backup opener.

 

I am not even sure on what basis people are even calling for him inclusion in the Indian team.

 

He needs atleast a season or two of proper Ranji cricket otherwise he will end up another Raina without developing as a cricketer.Last season he couldn't even get into the TN Odi team and suddenly get him into international cricket? Will do him no good.

 

He is only 17 ,needs more cricket before being selected for Indian team.

[rkt.india]

11 hours ago, sandeep said:

Who says Pant regressed?  @express bowling thinks he's not quite ready for the big-time yet, especially with top-end fast bowling.   Maybe he just needs a bit more time, and the selectors could actually be right in bringing him along slowly, instead of exposing him before he's ready.   

 

And while I have a lot of hope for Iyer's talent, he has shown that his temperament still needs a bit of work. This guy is too flashy and cocky for his own good.  We don't want to reward arrogant players who insist on doing their own thing.  Bit of maturity and recognition of the value of consistency and making it count is missing with this kid.   

Only last year in a one day warmup against England, Pant thrashed England pacers all over the park at Braborne stadium easily. So, I dont think he can play pace. He may be lacking in confidence now after some low scores.

[Gollum]

1 hour ago, Khota said:

Washington needs to stand in line. There are 5 spinners ahead of him.

He is an all rounder, not a specialist spinner. He is much better with the bat than the likes of Ashwin, Jadeja, Axar etc and a very economical bowler. We have a good fast bowling all rounder in Hardik, Washington may fill the gap of a spin bowling all rounder. 

[Kerberos]

N

Edited September 13, 2017 by Kerberos

[Kerberos]

.

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

He is an all rounder, not a specialist spinner. He is much better with the bat than the likes of Ashwin, Jadeja, Axar etc and a very economical bowler. We have a good fast bowling all rounder in Hardik, Washington may fill the gap of a spin bowling all rounder. 

How? what has he done at all with the bat?

[express bowling]

14 hours ago, sandeep said:

Who says Pant regressed?  @express bowling thinks he's not quite ready for the big-time yet, especially with top-end fast bowling.   Maybe he just needs a bit more time, and the selectors could actually be right in bringing him along slowly, instead of exposing him before he's ready.   

 

Actually, my impression about him is that he is not ready to open in LOIs as of today ( as some posters want ). He does not have much experience facing really quick bowlers. And, his off-stump game is not that solid yet.

 

It would be better to introduce him in the middle order, where the the ball is not as new. He smashed quickish bowlers like Plunkett and Ball, representing India A in a 50-over game, while batting in the middle-order. Similar case in the IPL. He can brutally hit pace bowlers but his defensive game against them is not clear to us yet.

 

It would be better to play him in a few LOIs, batting in the middle order ( as a part of rotation policy ) to get his feet wet.

Edited September 13, 2017 by express bowling

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Only last year in a one day warmup against England, Pant thrashed England pacers all over the park at Braborne stadium easily. So, I dont think he can play pace. He may be lacking in confidence now after some low scores.

He is very good at hitting quick bowlers but looks a bit circumspect leaving or defending off-stump deliveries against them. 

 

It is best to introduce him in the middle-order.

[Gollum]

15 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

How? what has he done at all with the bat?

Based on what I saw of him in TNPL. 

[Forever Indian]

12 hours ago, gakgupta said:

I heard that he is allrounder....Infact he started his career as a batsmen but now, he is a bowling - allrounder...

 

But what's working for him as a bowler? He doesn't has a big turn nor the loop....(yes!! he is tall....)

He is a thinking bowler and tries to outfox the batsman. He also doesn't give batsmen time to adjust their shots by bowling it flatter so batsmen usually play defensively. He is not yet a wicket taking bowler IMO, but gets wickets when batsmen try to premeditated.

 

This article shows how he outfoxed Warner and other batsmen in the IPL.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/19401068/washington-sundar-thinks-way-success

 

 

 

 

[Pollack]

47 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

How? what has he done at all with the bat?

In TNPL he has done quite well with both bat and ball. Brilliant strike rate also. Dont know if big hitter (did not watch live) but lots of boundaries.Here is how he fared as a batsman:

 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2017 by Pollack

[rkt.india]

3 hours ago, Pollack said:

In TNPL he has done quite well with both bat and ball. Brilliant strike rate also. Dont know if big hitter (did not watch live) but lots of boundaries.Here is how he fared as a batsman:

 

 

 

now TNPL is the criteria. 

[Pollack]

28 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

now TNPL is the criteria. 

 When did I say so? I have watched it a bit only and did not feel motivated to watch more. The quality of cricket is terrible. 

Having said that he is standing out outstandingly from others. Besides he hasn't played much. So, at least now IPL, Tnpl can be used a bit to judge. Your original question was based on what he has done with the bat and we can only judge that from wherever he has played; poor quality tournaments or not.