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Get Washington Sundar into Indian LOI team already


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6 hours ago, Gollum said:

He is an all rounder, not a specialist spinner. He is much better with the bat than the likes of Ashwin, Jadeja, Axar etc and a very economical bowler. We have a good fast bowling all rounder in Hardik, Washington may fill the gap of a spin bowling all rounder. 

I dont believe in all rounders. They are like unicorns. They do not exist.

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8 hours ago, BeautifulGame said:

Yes he is batsmàn.And opening Batsman to boot.His bowling is more like part time off spin but has developed a lot watching TNPL.Still very defensive bowler .

 

People are as usual overreacting here.He is a big talent but last he wasn't in the Ranji XI of TN.Used mostly as backup opener.

 

I am not even sure on what basis people are even calling for him inclusion in the Indian team.

 

He needs atleast a season or two of proper Ranji cricket otherwise he will end up another Raina without developing as a cricketer.Last season he couldn't even get into the TN Odi team and suddenly get him into international cricket? Will do him no good.

 

He is only 17 ,needs more cricket before being selected for Indian team.

There is a lot of immaturity if anyone asks for his inclusion. He needs to prove himself. No 17 year old is ready to play at this level.

Edited by Khota
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8 hours ago, BeautifulGame said:

Yes he is batsmàn.And opening Batsman to boot.His bowling is more like part time off spin but has developed a lot watching TNPL.Still very defensive bowler .

 

People are as usual overreacting here.He is a big talent but last he wasn't in the Ranji XI of TN.Used mostly as backup opener.

 

I am not even sure on what basis people are even calling for him inclusion in the Indian team.

 

He needs atleast a season or two of proper Ranji cricket otherwise he will end up another Raina without developing as a cricketer.Last season he couldn't even get into the TN Odi team and suddenly get him into international cricket? Will do him no good.

 

He is only 17 ,needs more cricket before being selected for Indian team.

Inclusion in Indian t20I wouldn't do wrong. Currently apart from Ashwin and Jadeja who are average t20 bowlers we only have Chahal and kuldeep. Both wrist spinners. Washington an off break bowler who is economical and smart can be useful addition in T20 team. From there we can see where he stands. Obviously he cannot make into ODI directly.

Edited by Pollack
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9 hours ago, SK_IH said:

before embarking on a rant,you should have atleast read what i wrote.i wrote it has become part of our system we go for this formulaic approach of waiting for players to grind it in domestic cricket,then we will give him chance  approach.

As you said it wasnt the case even till Virat made it to the team but now it seems a u19 star even if he has some sparkle he wont make it instead we will see Faiz Fazal and Rayudu the domestic grinders getting chances for the sake of it ,even rishi dhawan for ffs.

you can carry on with your rant but what i have observed with the india's selections and their policy in genera is there is an inclination to make safe selections

Why do you think I was "ranting"?  I laid out my argument as clearly and specifically as I could, backed up by specific examples.  Maybe you found my post a bit too strongly worded for your taste.  But counter the content with fact-based arguments, not just by repeating your unsubstantiated belief and "gut feelings" about a systemic problem with safe selections.  

 

You cite Fazal and Rayudu as examples of "domestic grinders" - forget the fact that Fazal only got a couple of games against Zimbabwe - essentially a glorified A tour.   But how about some other examples of domestic grinders?  Shikhar Dhawan, Gautam Gambhir, Kedar Jadhav, Manish Pandey - these are all so-called domestic grinders.   There's value in vetting a player's temperament, his adaptability through the "domestic grind".  Asking a young player - the likes of Rishabh, Sundar etc to play a couple of seasons of domestic cricket at a high level, is not asking for too much.   And you conveniently forget that the same system has plucked Hardik Pandya with an extremely limited FC background and very quickly handed him T20, ODI and test debuts.   Why?  Because the national team had a need for that type of player, and he was the best of the lot.    Nobody wanted to wait for Pandya to 'prove himself' in Ranji for 2 years while we stick with Stuart Binny.  Sundar's case is entirely different though.  

 

You only give young players a short-cut to the national team if  a) The team needs a player of that skill-set and he is the best of the lot, or in extremely rare cases b) the player in question is a once in a generation talent who will benefit from the selection without costing the team - a la SRT.   Even Tendulkar had proven himself to a good extent at the domestic level - he hit a FC century in his 1st innings IIRC - I can still recall that bw picture of him with that cap on, in the Times of India sports page.  

 

None of these scenarios apply to Washington Sundar.  As has been pointed out on this thread, the guy barely makes his state team.  At this point in time, all he is, is a promising prospect who could potentially turn into a valuable contributor for Team India.  Nothing that he's done so far merits a short-cut selection to the national team.  So why the unseemly rush?   

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1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

:laugh1::laugh1::laugh1:

 

Where do u get that confidence to write such nonsense. :bow:

This is based on observation. 

Moreover cricket is a specialist sport. Either you can bat or you can bowl.

Currently someone who can neither bowl or bat is called an allrounder.

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16 hours ago, Khota said:

I dont believe in all rounders. They are like unicorns. They do not exist.

:hysterical:they could have replaced heath ledger with this guy in batman movie man. Sir where were you hiding all these years? This forum needs a guy like you. I mean it :cantstop:

Edited by Rasgulla
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3 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

:laugh1::laugh1::laugh1:

 

Where do u get that confidence to write such nonsense. :bow:

he is not wrong. Cricket has two specialties, batting or bowling. Either you are a batsman or bowler. If you are a bowler first, your other aspect that is batting is a bonus, but you need to make the team as a bowler first and if you are a batsman, your bowling is just an added advantage, you first need to make the team as a batsman. This is reason our combination in ODIs is going haywire because we are playing Hardik Pandya who is neither a batsman nor a bowler. I too supported Pandya's inclusion initially but then I realized that he is a huge misfit because either he bats in top 6 or should be good enough to play as 3rd seamer and as a 3rd seamer does not at all give confidence. We are making someone like Shami sit out as Pandya is playing. What we need more is a bowling alrounder, someone who is predominantly a bowler but can bat at 7, a bit better than likes of Jaddu and Axar when it comes to hitting, whether he is a spinner or a fast bowler. and If we want to play Pandya, he should be batting in top 6.

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3 hours ago, rkt.india said:

This is reason our combination in ODIs is going haywire because we are playing Hardik Pandya who is neither a batsman nor a bowler. I too supported Pandya's inclusion initially but then I realized that he is a huge misfit because either he bats in top 6 or should be good enough to play as 3rd seamer and as a 3rd seamer does not at all give confidence.

We all knew wen we supported pandya that he is not a finished product and he lacks domestic exp as well

As of now he is more of a bits and pieces kind of player, but he is our best option as well . Whatever we have to go with him. 

Both aspects of his game will get better with time 

The solution to this is get a 6th bowler- batting all rounder and we have an option like krunal. He gives us the option of 2nd spinner which will allow us to play someone like Shami as well.  A 6th bowler can cover his bowling

 

Similarly if kuldeep, bhuvi n the lower order keeps improving their batting with it will give some cover to his batting as well 

 

For few yrs expectation from Hardik shud be lowered , he is the best option we have got as of now and better then many in recent times we have tried

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3 hours ago, rkt.india said:

This is reason our combination in ODIs is going haywire because we are playing Hardik Pandya who is neither a batsman nor a bowler. I too supported Pandya's inclusion initially but then I realized that he is a huge misfit because either he bats in top 6 or should be good enough to play as 3rd seamer and as a 3rd seamer does not at all give confidence. We are making someone like Shami sit out as Pandya is playing. What we need more is a bowling alrounder, someone who is predominantly a bowler but can bat at 7, 

 No.7 slot in ODIs and T20s requires a player who can start hitting from ball one,  is a high SR batter and can hit big shots.

 

Keeping that requirement in mind, Hardik is a batman in ODIs and T20s if he bats at 7 or 6.  A classical batsman or a bowler who can bat a bit, won't do for this slot.

 

I think Hardik is an ideal No.7  in LOIs.

 

Our problem is we don't have any proper spinner-all-rounder in the top 6.... like a Krunal. If we had, then we could have easily played Shami.

Edited by express bowling
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7 hours ago, rkt.india said:

he is not wrong. Cricket has two specialties, batting or bowling. Either you are a batsman or bowler. If you are a bowler first, your other aspect that is batting is a bonus, but you need to make the team as a bowler first and if you are a batsman, your bowling is just an added advantage, you first need to make the team as a batsman. This is reason our combination in ODIs is going haywire because we are playing Hardik Pandya who is neither a batsman nor a bowler. I too supported Pandya's inclusion initially but then I realized that he is a huge misfit because either he bats in top 6 or should be good enough to play as 3rd seamer and as a 3rd seamer does not at all give confidence. We are making someone like Shami sit out as Pandya is playing. What we need more is a bowling alrounder, someone who is predominantly a bowler but can bat at 7, a bit better than likes of Jaddu and Axar when it comes to hitting, whether he is a spinner or a fast bowler. and If we want to play Pandya, he should be batting in top 6.

The world now needs specialists. At an amature level or club level you could have a guy who could bowl and bat. At the top level you can only perform one task. Nothing else. there are just so many hours in a day and body needs time to heal. You cannot do both. Just cannot at that level. 

I fully agree with the curious case of pandya. We now have a guy who can neither be a frontline boowler or a top bat. A hybrid at that level does not work.

With atleast Shami playing in front of Pandya at least we can get a wicket or two which is huge.Pandya will be beaten like a drum.

once again I have more faith in tooth fairy or santa than allrounders. They do not exist at that level.

 

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4 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

We all knew wen we supported pandya that he is not a finished product and he lacks domestic exp as well

As of now he is more of a bits and pieces kind of player, but he is our best option as well . Whatever we have to go with him. 

Both aspects of his game will get better with time 

The solution to this is get a 6th bowler- batting all rounder and we have an option like krunal. He gives us the option of 2nd spinner which will allow us to play someone like Shami as well.  A 6th bowler can cover his bowling

 

Similarly if kuldeep, bhuvi n the lower order keeps improving their batting with it will give some cover to his batting as well 

 

For few yrs expectation from Hardik shud be lowered , he is the best option we have got as of now and better then many in recent times we have tried

The time and effort spend by Bhuvi and Kuldeep to improve their batting to acceptable level will be too much. Let them be exceptional bowlers.

Let us not turn them in the case of Pathan who at the end could do nothing. 

Once again to win at that level you need to top in batting and bowling. Now both should have enough skills in batting to stick around.

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VIRAT told in press conference about importance of All rounder in ODI Indian team, I think he hints on Axar who need to improves his batting and most importantly Fielding.i think KY okayed in batting,

 

http://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-news/97127/virat-kohli-india-cricket-captain-talks-up-role-of-all-rounders-in-odi-game

kohli

 

http://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-news/97104/rohit-sharma-india-cricketer-extols-virtues-of-squad-depth-and-role-flexibility

Rohit sir,India 'S Future ODI captain 

 

 

 

Edited by Wapas
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On 9/12/2017 at 12:28 PM, SecondSlip said:

Krunal Pandya should be given chances before Sundar if we are looking for a batting allrounder that bowls spin 

KP no according to VK but Himanshu's other son HP : must in Indian team for Limited Format but eventually he will miss test selection 

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13 hours ago, Forever Indian said:

Sundar - 2/40 and then 156* as opener for Tamilnadu in Ranji.

This guy is improving by the day.

get this guy into national team....huge huge potential...

I understand that 156 is against a weak bowling line-up....but nevertheless, it proves that he can be a genuine allrounder....

he might not be ready for intl assignment yet but let him learn his trade in the intl arena....

 

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