MS Dhoni mega discussion thread

[Muloghonto]

Ok, by that logic, all openers are better than #5/6 batsmen. they score more runs, you see!

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 minutes ago, Khota said:

I hope you can read stat tables. Just remember if you score more runs you are better. Not the otherway around.

 

Most runs

Player	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
DA Warner	14	14	3	641	126	58.27	452	141.81	1	4	0	63	26
(Sunrisers Hyderabad)
G Gambhir	16	16	4	498	76*	41.50	389	128.02	0	4	0	62	7
(Kolkata Knight Riders)
S Dhawan	14	14	1	479	77	36.84	376	127.39	0	3	0	53	9
(Sunrisers Hyderabad)
SPD Smith	15	15	3	472	84*	39.33	387	121.96	0	3	0	38	12
(Rising Pune Supergiant)
SK Raina	14	14	3	442	84	40.18	307	143.97	0	3	0	42	13
(Gujarat Lions)
HM Amla	10	10	3	420	104*	60.00	288	145.83	2	2	1	40	17
(Kings XI Punjab)
MK Pandey	14	13	5	396	81*	49.50	308	128.57	0	2	0	28	12
(Kolkata Knight Riders)
PA Patel	16	16	0	395	70	24.68	293	134.81	0	2	2	49	8
(Mumbai Indians)
RA Tripathi	14	14	0	391	93	27.92	267	146.44	0	2	1	43	17
(Rising Pune Supergiant)
RV Uthappa	14	13	0	388	87	29.84	235	165.10	0	5	1	36	21
(Kolkata Knight Riders)
SV Samson	14	14	0	386	102	27.57	273	141.39	1	2	2	32	19
(Delhi Daredevils)
KA Pollard	17	16	3	385	70	29.61	276	139.49	0	3	0	26	22
(Mumbai Indians)
AM Rahane	16	16	1	382	60	25.46	323	118.26	0	2	2	35	9
(Rising Pune Supergiant)
RR Pant	14	14	0	366	97	26.14	221	165.61	0	2	3	28	24
(Delhi Daredevils)
KD Karthik	14	13	3	361	65	36.10	259	139.38	0	2	1	30	11
(Gujarat Lions)
SS Iyer	12	12	2	338	96	33.80	243	139.09	0	2	0	36	10
(Delhi Daredevils)
N Rana	13	12	1	333	62*	30.27	264	126.13	0	3	0	24	17
(Mumbai Indians)
RG Sharma	17	16	2	333	67	23.78	273	121.97	0	3	1	31	9
(Mumbai Indians)
MK Tiwary	15	13	3	324	60	32.40	236	137.28	0	2	1	31	11
(Rising Pune Supergiant)
BB McCullum	11	11	0	319	72	29.00	217	147.00	0	2	0	29	18
(Gujarat Lions)
BA Stokes	12	11	1	316	103*	31.60	221	142.98	1	1	0	22	15
(Rising Pune Supergiant)
GJ Maxwell	14	13	3	310	47	31.00	179	173.18	0	0	3	19	26
(Kings XI Punjab)
V Kohli	10	10	0	308	64	30.80	252	122.22	0	4	1	23	11
(Royal Challengers Bangalore)
AJ Finch	13	13	1	299	72	24.91	180	166.11	0	2	1	25	19
(Gujarat Lions)
CA Lynn	7	7	1	295	93*	49.16	163	180.98	0	3	0	25	19
(Kolkata Knight Riders)
MS Dhoni	16	15	4	290	61*	26.36	250	116.00	0	1	0	15	16
(Rising Pune Supergiant)

IPL.....

Talk about mixing formats

Ill be happy if they are selected in IPL 11, but international cricket is diff

Do u want me to show their international stats 

 

[velu]

haterz waiting for Dhonis retirement is like

 

 

 

[Khota]

Shastri has lost his mind. This movie has failed and more over it is in Black and White. Old and dated. Go away sifarshi shastri.

[velu]

7 minutes ago, Khota said:

I hope you can read stat tables. Just remember if you score more runs you are better. Not the otherway around.

 

Most runs

Player	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
DA Warner	14	14	3	641	126	58.27	452	141.81	1	4	0	63	26
(Sunrisers Hyderabad)
G Gambhir	16	16	4	498	76*	41.50	389	128.02	0	4	0	62	7
(Kolkata Knight Riders)
S Dhawan	14	14	1	479	77	36.84	376	127.39	0	3	0	53	9
(Sunrisers Hyderabad)
SPD Smith	15	15	3	472	84*	39.33	387	121.96	0	3	0	38	12
(Rising Pune Supergiant)
SK Raina	14	14	3	442	84	40.18	307	143.97	0	3	0	42	13
(Gujarat Lions)
HM Amla	10	10	3	420	104*	60.00	288	145.83	2	2	1	40	17
(Kings XI Punjab)
MK Pandey	14	13	5	396	81*	49.50	308	128.57	0	2	0	28	12
(Kolkata Knight Riders)
PA Patel	16	16	0	395	70	24.68	293	134.81	0	2	2	49	8
(Mumbai Indians)
RA Tripathi	14	14	0	391	93	27.92	267	146.44	0	2	1	43	17
(Rising Pune Supergiant)
RV Uthappa	14	13	0	388	87	29.84	235	165.10	0	5	1	36	21
(Kolkata Knight Riders)
SV Samson	14	14	0	386	102	27.57	273	141.39	1	2	2	32	19
(Delhi Daredevils)
KA Pollard	17	16	3	385	70	29.61	276	139.49	0	3	0	26	22
(Mumbai Indians)
AM Rahane	16	16	1	382	60	25.46	323	118.26	0	2	2	35	9
(Rising Pune Supergiant)
RR Pant	14	14	0	366	97	26.14	221	165.61	0	2	3	28	24
(Delhi Daredevils)
KD Karthik	14	13	3	361	65	36.10	259	139.38	0	2	1	30	11
(Gujarat Lions)
SS Iyer	12	12	2	338	96	33.80	243	139.09	0	2	0	36	10
(Delhi Daredevils)
N Rana	13	12	1	333	62*	30.27	264	126.13	0	3	0	24	17
(Mumbai Indians)
RG Sharma	17	16	2	333	67	23.78	273	121.97	0	3	1	31	9
(Mumbai Indians)
MK Tiwary	15	13	3	324	60	32.40	236	137.28	0	2	1	31	11
(Rising Pune Supergiant)
BB McCullum	11	11	0	319	72	29.00	217	147.00	0	2	0	29	18
(Gujarat Lions)
BA Stokes	12	11	1	316	103*	31.60	221	142.98	1	1	0	22	15
(Rising Pune Supergiant)
GJ Maxwell	14	13	3	310	47	31.00	179	173.18	0	0	3	19	26
(Kings XI Punjab)
V Kohli	10	10	0	308	64	30.80	252	122.22	0	4	1	23	11
(Royal Challengers Bangalore)
AJ Finch	13	13	1	299	72	24.91	180	166.11	0	2	1	25	19
(Gujarat Lions)
CA Lynn	7	7	1	295	93*	49.16	163	180.98	0	3	0	25	19
(Kolkata Knight Riders)
MS Dhoni	16	15	4	290	61*	26.36	250	116.00	0	1	0	15	16
(Rising Pune Supergiant)

sounds lahori logic to me

 

[Khota]

4 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

IPL.....

Talk about mixing formats

Ill be happy if they are selected in IPL 11, but international cricket is diff

Do u want me to show their international stats 

 

You can but they are not correct.

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 minutes ago, Khota said:

You can but they are not correct.

Sir jee , how come international stats not correct??? coz it punctures ur argument 

U cnt defend 

Karthik - 28 avg . s/r of 73

Parthiv patel - 23 s/r of 76

uthappa - 25 s/r of 90

 

These are their ODi international avgs, IPL men jo krna hai karte raho

[Khota]

3 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Sir jee , how come international stats not correct??? coz it punctures ur argument 

U cnt defend 

Karthik - 28 avg . s/r of 73

Parthiv patel - 23 s/r of 76

uthappa - 25 s/r of 90

 

These are their ODi international avgs, IPL men jo krna hai karte raho

Champion you can see the averages correctly. People who do well in T20 by and large will do well in ODI.

Also give me the context of these averages just dont throw the numbers around.

[Ankit_sharma03]

Just now, Khota said:

Champion you can see the averages correctly. People who do well in T20 by and large will do well in ODI.

Also give me the context of these averages just dont throw the numbers around.

Ok so were is raina, one the best t20 batsman he shud have been in the squad and by that logic he shud have been a more consistent performer then kohli 

What happened to these so called champions when they came to international cricket . 

Didnt uthappa went to Aussie -A tour after being best batsman in IPL and failed miserbaly . and then he played bangladesh were he avg 23 and zimb were he avg 14

 

IPL men batting bhul ke aa jate hai 

24 minutes ago, Khota said:

I hope you can read stat tables. Just remember if you score more runs you are better. Not the otherway around.

 

Most runs

Player	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
DA Warner	14	14	3	641	126	58.27	452	141.81	1	4	0	63	26
(Sunrisers Hyderabad)
G Gambhir	16	16	4	498	76*	41.50	389	128.02	0	4	0	62	7
(Kolkata Knight Riders)
S Dhawan	14	14	1	479	77	36.84	376	127.39	0	3	0	53	9
(Sunrisers Hyderabad)
SPD Smith	15	15	3	472	84*	39.33	387	121.96	0	3	0	38	12
(Rising Pune Supergiant)
SK Raina	14	14	3	442	84	40.18	307	143.97	0	3	0	42	13
(Gujarat Lions)
HM Amla	10	10	3	420	104*	60.00	288	145.83	2	2	1	40	17
(Kings XI Punjab)
MK Pandey	14	13	5	396	81*	49.50	308	128.57	0	2	0	28	12
(Kolkata Knight Riders)
PA Patel	16	16	0	395	70	24.68	293	134.81	0	2	2	49	8
(Mumbai Indians)
RA Tripathi	14	14	0	391	93	27.92	267	146.44	0	2	1	43	17
(Rising Pune Supergiant)
RV Uthappa	14	13	0	388	87	29.84	235	165.10	0	5	1	36	21
(Kolkata Knight Riders)
SV Samson	14	14	0	386	102	27.57	273	141.39	1	2	2	32	19
(Delhi Daredevils)
KA Pollard	17	16	3	385	70	29.61	276	139.49	0	3	0	26	22
(Mumbai Indians)
AM Rahane	16	16	1	382	60	25.46	323	118.26	0	2	2	35	9
(Rising Pune Supergiant)
RR Pant	14	14	0	366	97	26.14	221	165.61	0	2	3	28	24
(Delhi Daredevils)
KD Karthik	14	13	3	361	65	36.10	259	139.38	0	2	1	30	11
(Gujarat Lions)
SS Iyer	12	12	2	338	96	33.80	243	139.09	0	2	0	36	10
(Delhi Daredevils)
N Rana	13	12	1	333	62*	30.27	264	126.13	0	3	0	24	17
(Mumbai Indians)
RG Sharma	17	16	2	333	67	23.78	273	121.97	0	3	1	31	9
(Mumbai Indians)
MK Tiwary	15	13	3	324	60	32.40	236	137.28	0	2	1	31	11
(Rising Pune Supergiant)
BB McCullum	11	11	0	319	72	29.00	217	147.00	0	2	0	29	18
(Gujarat Lions)
BA Stokes	12	11	1	316	103*	31.60	221	142.98	1	1	0	22	15
(Rising Pune Supergiant)
GJ Maxwell	14	13	3	310	47	31.00	179	173.18	0	0	3	19	26
(Kings XI Punjab)
V Kohli	10	10	0	308	64	30.80	252	122.22	0	4	1	23	11
(Royal Challengers Bangalore)
AJ Finch	13	13	1	299	72	24.91	180	166.11	0	2	1	25	19
(Gujarat Lions)
CA Lynn	7	7	1	295	93*	49.16	163	180.98	0	3	0	25	19
(Kolkata Knight Riders)
MS Dhoni	16	15	4	290	61*	26.36	250	116.00	0	1	0	15	16
(Rising Pune Supergiant)

By ur stat logic gambhir, dhawa, raina, pandey, parthiv patel, uthappa, samson , rahane , pant iyer, tiwary, nitish rana, maxwell all are better batsman then kohli 

M taking ur logic in consideration 

[sandeep]

1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

No such time has come and Saha is ahead in the line to a kid who has done nothing to deserve an internaitonal spot.

 

I have a lot of love for Saha, but he's been bracketed as a test player for India.  I don't care whether its Rishabh, or Sanju Samson or some other guy.   But the likes of Karthik and Parthiv are known commodities - neither are they meaningful upgrades from Dhoni, nor are they the right choice keeping the medium term future in mind.   Dhoni has and is slowing down.  Wicket-keepers are never easy to replace at short notice, better to start planning for the inevitable transition sooner rather than later.   

 

Let's put aside ODIs, where Dhoni is still serviceable.  What about T20s, where his batting has never been top shelf.   Don't you agree that its time to start auditioning the next gen?  

[Muloghonto]

Guy is going nowhere.

Still one of the fittest guys on the field. His keeping in limited overs is excellent. Hardly concedes byes and is the best wicket-keeper at effecting run-outs, with his 'one motion collect and throw to stumps' ( way better at affecting run-outs than collect and bring hand/both hands to wicket). Rarely drops a catch. 

A batsman has two jobs in ODIs - accumulate runs/score runs fast. Cricket, at end of the day, is about beating aggregate total. Just like a '30 off of 15 balls, to push total from 280/4(44 overs)---> 340 off of 50 overs is more useful than a 10 off of 15 balls', so too is '75 off of 125 balls more important than 20 off of 10 balls in a 225/7(50 overs)' scenario. Dhoni accumulating more runs at a slower speed means, promotion. Promote him to #4, where he can accumulate more. that he is 'no longer a great finisher' is laughable, when he is out-performing specialist batsmen in the team. 

Its sheer agenda-driven madness, to ask for the best wicketkeeper in the country, who is also one of the fittest players in the world and accumulating at the average of 91, to be dropped. And its not like Dhoni has a string of 20*,18* and no high scores. He is having a truly great accumulation season so far, in ODIs, where he's scored 548 runs in 13 innings. thats 42+ runs/innings rate: in and of itself a good ODI average for the year. 

 

Like seriously, lay off an aging vet having a very, very good season so far, just coz he is old.  

Like it or not, most Indian fans have a very age-ist menatlity. they mostly want a '18-19 year hold hyper-star, who will show some trace of potential-->fast track-->adapts to top level cricket quick success story---> 15-16 year career-->then retire gracefully for next hyper-star' mindset to supporting players. Not as bad as the Parosis but same mentalit is #1.

 

Completely misses the point that pro-sports is all about results. Nowhere, not in soccer/nhl/nfl/basketball or heck, even in more pro-oriented cricket nations like RSA/AUS- does a player have his place questioned, if he is fulfilling all the criterias: a) established great b) is fit enough c)is currently having an above-par season and d)is old/very old for his sport. 

But no, Indian fans = 'old = gtfo, go home'. So sad. 

 

 

Edited September 14, 2017 by Muloghonto

[Muloghonto]

Oh and to all those who are whining 'Dhoni is no longer the best finisher, heck he is not even a good finisher anymore, India is throwing away totals by having his tuk-tuk 80 strike rate finishing'.

Guess what: you folks are 100% correct. 
India is screwed if Dhoni is our finisher. Fact. 

 

Ergo, blame management for being slow to respond to Dhoni's new evolution: slower accumulator. 

 

But to throw away the best pure wicketkeeper in the country for limited overs, who is also one of the top 3 fittest guy in the team and accumulating runs at 40+ runs/innings and 90+ average, with 80+ strike rate, would be the singular greatest failure of management/team coach ever. 

Its the kind of crap that is LOL-worthy on SportsIllustrated.

Find a better spot for him. #4 is calling.

 

 

Edited September 14, 2017 by Muloghonto

[Muloghonto]

21 minutes ago, sandeep said:

I have a lot of love for Saha, but he's been bracketed as a test player for India.  I don't care whether its Rishabh, or Sanju Samson or some other guy.   But the likes of Karthik and Parthiv are known commodities - neither are they meaningful upgrades from Dhoni, nor are they the right choice keeping the medium term future in mind.   Dhoni has and is slowing down.  Wicket-keepers are never easy to replace at short notice, better to start planning for the inevitable transition sooner rather than later.   

 

Let's put aside ODIs, where Dhoni is still serviceable.  What about T20s, where his batting has never been top shelf.   Don't you agree that its time to start auditioning the next gen?  

If he is slowing down, promote him. We would love a 90 average, 80 strike rate, 40+ runs/innings #4 guy, who also is wicketkeeper.

My point is simple- Saha, if he lights it up in tests(and he is on the verge of doing it-he's had a stellar year with the bat and glove- one more would cement his claim), he is our Dhoni replacement. He is 3-4 years younger. We can re-visit where Samson, Rishabh, Kishan are then. they'd all be 28-22 years old and entering their prime while being 'seasoned vets at domestic scene'- cannot ask for more prep before tossing them in the deep. that should be the plan.

Rishab is not ready. Guy was a fail in ListA. kid has time, lets give kid more time. Pretty hard to see where that logic is going sideways.

And no, i absolutely disagree its time to audition next gen. 

Next gen has 2-3 years period to cook/marinate further. Due to Dhoni being there till 2019 and Saha having a few more years shelf-life than Dhoni. Next gen will then fight for and hopefully have an eventual #1-#2 emerge by 2022-23. By then, 'the guy' from next gen is a 26-25 year old with 10+ years to his life as a potenital All-time great. 

We have this opportunity with next gen. But most Indian fans and our establishment lack professional development ethos- and will as a result, risk breaking our next gen by early exposure. Particularly in one of the most difficult jobs in the sport: to be a good keeper AND a good batsman. 

Incredible.

We do this to our bowling all-rounders too.

Edited September 14, 2017 by Muloghonto

[maniac]

10 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

If he is slowing down, promote him. We would love a 90 average, 80 strike rate, 40+ runs/innings #4 guy, who also is wicketkeeper.

My point is simple- Saha, if he lights it up in tests(and he is on the verge of doing it-he's had a stellar year with the bat and glove- one more would cement his claim), he is our Dhoni replacement. He is 3-4 years younger. We can re-visit where Samson, Rishabh, Kishan are then. they'd all be 28-22 years old and entering their prime while being 'seasoned vets at domestic scene'- cannot ask for more prep before tossing them in the deep. that should be the plan.

Rishab is not ready. Guy was a fail in ListA. kid has time, lets give kid more time. Pretty hard to see where that logic is going sideways.

And no, i absolutely disagree its time to audition next gen. 

Next gen has 2-3 years period to cook/marinate further. Due to Dhoni being there till 2019 and Saha having a few more years shelf-life than Dhoni. Next gen will then fight for and hopefully have an eventual #1-#2 emerge by 2022-23. By then, 'the guy' from next gen is a 26-25 year old with 10+ years to his life as a potenital All-time great. 

We have this opportunity with next gen. But most Indian fans and our establishment lack professional development ethos- and will as a result, risk breaking our next gen by early exposure. Particularly in one of the most difficult jobs in the sport: to be a good keeper AND a good batsman. 

Incredible.

We do this to our bowling all-rounders too.

Once again you keep posting 80 s/r as some kind of an Olympic medal....it isn't...it is pathetic for a lower middle order batsman in LOIs...Sure once in a while a lower s/r when there is a need to play according to situations it is acceptable but 80 sr over a sustained period of time in that role is disgraceful.

 

You need to account for How many times have India scored 300+ in this time frame....If India had a weak top order collapsing every other game and someone had an average of 90 and sr of 80 I would have no doubt in my mind to call that player g .o .a .t and irreplaceable but in the context of one of the strongest LOI side in the world right now,his numbers are unacceptable...90 average is bloated by not outs so don't count.

[maniac]

52 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Oh and to all those who are whining 'Dhoni is no longer the best finisher, heck he is not even a good finisher anymore, India is throwing away totals by having his tuk-tuk 80 strike rate finishing'.

Guess what: you folks are 100% correct. 
India is screwed if Dhoni is our finisher. Fact. 

 

Ergo, blame management for being slow to respond to Dhoni's new evolution: slower accumulator. 

 

But to throw away the best pure wicketkeeper in the country for limited overs, who is also one of the top 3 fittest guy in the team and accumulating runs at 40+ runs/innings and 90+ average, with 80+ strike rate, would be the singular greatest failure of management/team coach ever. 

Its the kind of crap that is LOL-worthy on SportsIllustrated.

Find a better spot for him. #4 is calling.

 

 

No.4 to accommodate an old player on the down low...please no.

 

and as far as this best pure keeper thing goes,that would be Saha and I think we can agree on that.

 

since when is not going for first slip catches considered a gold standard for great keepers.

 

yeah he can hold on to a straightforward catch,what a rare attribute

 

stumpings I will give him that best I have ever seen but then again I wonder how many stumping even some of the popular keepers like Dujon or Dave Richardson have done in their lifetimes.

 

odi cricket has moved on from the 90s and early 2000s of teams stacking their side with spinners...the new rules and new era gives a need to have 3 or even 4 fast bowlers in the side...and keeping to fast bowling don't think Dhoni is really comfortable in that area.

Edited September 14, 2017 by maniac

[express bowling]

27 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

If he is slowing down, promote him. We would love a 90 average, 80 strike rate, 40+ runs/innings #4 guy, who also is wicketkeeper.

 

 

I would love such a player too.  But, that average is almost totally dependent on playing against the 8th and 9th ranked teams in ODIs  barring one really good innings against England. ( WI could not make it to CT 17 and SL is going through a real low now )

 

Here are the averages and SRs of Indian batters against the top 7 ODI teams in the last 2 years

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
V Kohli	2015-2017	22	22	5	1427	154*	83.94	1449	98.48	5	9	0	117	23
HH Pandya	2016-2017	11	7	3	256	76	64.00	183	139.89	0	2	0	16	13
Yuvraj Singh	2017-2017	7	6	1	308	150	61.60	284	108.45	1	1	0	41	7
RG Sharma	2015-2017	19	19	2	1045	171*	61.47	1119	93.38	4	4	1	96	31
KM Jadhav	2016-2017	12	8	2	331	120	55.16	261	126.81	1	1	1	35	9
S Dhawan	2015-2017	16	16	0	638	126	39.87	680	93.82	1	5	0	82	8
AM Rahane	2015-2017	15	14	0	532	89	38.00	609	87.35	0	6	0	50	8
MS Dhoni	2015-2017	22	19	1	659	134	36.61	749	87.98	1	2	1	47	20

 

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=25;opposition=3;opposition=5;opposition=7;orderby=batting_average;qualmin1=200;qualval1=runs;spanmax1=14+Sep+2017;spanmin1=14+Sep+2015;spanval1=span;team=6;template=results;type=batting

 

 

Edited September 14, 2017 by express bowling

[sandeep]

31 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

If he is slowing down, promote him. We would love a 90 average, 80 strike rate, 40+ runs/innings #4 guy, who also is wicketkeeper.

But the problem is that he doesn't play at 80 SR unless he plays more than 40 deliveries.  Along with his fading power hitting which is reflected in his lower boundary percentage, he has become a very slow starter.   Hard to collate stats on this, but if you watch most India games, you would know that Dhoni bats at around 50-65 SR for his 1st 25-30 deliveries.  In a partnership, that would be over a period of 8 overs, and a major momentum killer. Compare that to VK's SR in his first 30 balls, or even Manish Pandey.   How much longer should we keep pushing Manish Pandey out of the team, when he's arguably a better option at #4, just to accommodate a fading Dhoni for an extra few months?   

 

If he turns things around and manages to maintain his overall stats while addressing this slow start issue, more power to him, we can play him till 2019 WC.  But time is a cruel mistress.  Its more likely that he will continue his decline, rather than magically turn it around.   

Edited September 14, 2017 by sandeep

[Muloghonto]

12 minutes ago, maniac said:

Once again you keep posting 80 s/r as some kind of an Olympic medal....it isn't...it is pathetic for a lower middle order batsman in LOIs...Sure once in a while a lower s/r when there is a need to play according to situations it is acceptable but 80 sr over a sustained period of time in that role is disgraceful.

 

You need to account for How many times have India scored 300+ in this time frame....If India had a weak top order collapsing every other game and someone had an average of 90 and sr of 80 I would have no doubt in my mind to call that player g .o .a .t and irreplaceable but in the context of one of the strongest LOI side in the world right now,his numbers are unacceptable...90 average is bloated by not outs so don't count.

its very good for a batsman. If your 90 average, 80 strike rate guy is the lower middle order batsman, blame management. not said lower middle order batsman for doing a better job accumulating than your upper middle order batsman.

90 average is bloated by not -outs, as a successful lower middle order batsman's should !!. Even without bloat, thats 42 runs/innings. 

Its team structure failure when you put one of your best guys at accumulating, in finishing. Like, do you actually follow any pro sports at all ? Do you see Pro hockey/basketball/baseball and not see how teams vary composition due to evolving/changing player abilities ?!

Dhoni is not obligated to be designated finisher. Dhoni is obligated to be the best keeper in the country. Check. He is obligated to not suck with the bat. Check. If he scores a mountain of runs, his position is bullet-proof. Also check. Gtfo asking for him being ditched and get on with 'wtf Ravi Shastri, you moron' bandwagon. Because where Dhoni is batting currently, is management failure.

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

29 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

If he is slowing down, promote him. We would love a 90 average, 80 strike rate, 40+ runs/innings #4 guy, who also is wicketkeeper.

My point is simple- Saha, if he lights it up in tests(and he is on the verge of doing it-he's had a stellar year with the bat and glove- one more would cement his claim), he is our Dhoni replacement. He is 3-4 years younger. We can re-visit where Samson, Rishabh, Kishan are then. they'd all be 28-22 years old and entering their prime while being 'seasoned vets at domestic scene'- cannot ask for more prep before tossing them in the deep. that should be the plan.

Rishab is not ready. Guy was a fail in ListA. kid has time, lets give kid more time. Pretty hard to see where that logic is going sideways.

And no, i absolutely disagree its time to audition next gen. 

Next gen has 2-3 years period to cook/marinate further. Due to Dhoni being there till 2019 and Saha having a few more years shelf-life than Dhoni. Next gen will then fight for and hopefully have an eventual #1-#2 emerge by 2022-23. By then, 'the guy' from next gen is a 26-25 year old with 10+ years to his life as a potenital All-time great. 

We have this opportunity with next gen. But most Indian fans and our establishment lack professional development ethos- and will as a result, risk breaking our next gen by early exposure. Particularly in one of the most difficult jobs in the sport: to be a good keeper AND a good batsman. 

Incredible.

We do this to our bowling all-rounders too.

Promotion is not the way- his right position is at 5 and for long term we have to find no.4 , dhoni doesnt have many years left in him. His s/r have fallen and he himself has to imrpove and figure his game. No player is bigger then team 

 

Saha will not make to LOI setup- Many will tell u that will a guarantee . I dnt even see him lasting long in test cricket from Sa tour to 

 

Its not about audition only- its also about giving the next best a chance to prove himself and i see pant as that and u Saha and some may see samson or kishen but there are enough opportunities to try others . T20 is one format to start with where dhoni is very below avg and neither will he play next t20 WC 

[Muloghonto]

3 minutes ago, sandeep said:

But the problem is that he doesn't play at 80 SR unless he plays more than 40 deliveries.  Along with his fading power hitting which is reflected in his lower boundary percentage, he has become a very slow starter.   Hard to collate stats on this, but if you watch most India games, you would know that Dhoni bats at around 50-65 SR for his 1st 25-30 deliveries.  In a partnership, that would be over a period of 8 overs, and a major momentum killer. Compare that to VK's SR in his first 30 balls, or even Manish Pandey.   How much longer should we keep pushing Manish Pandey out of the team, when he's arguably a better option at #4, just to accommodate a fading Dhoni for an extra few months?   

 

If he turns things around and manages to maintain his overall stats while addressing this slow start issue, more power to him, we can play him till 2019 WC.  But time is a cruel mistress.  Its more likely that he will continue his decline, rather than magically turn it around.   

All the more reason for him to 'Inzamam his way' with the innings from #4. 

Manish can swap places with Dhoni and it'd be just as workable. Or it could be 'Virat-Dhoni-Manish' as 3-5.