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MS Dhoni mega discussion thread


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So even if Dhoni falls lower than he is at present, in the mind of the coach he will continue in the XI. Is he serious or what? Cursed are we to keep this worthless liability in our XI when other teams have much more dynamic players in that slot. Gaya WC 2019 haath se.

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1 hour ago, maniac said:

Saha is the backup??? Lol...when was the last time Saha played a LOI game :hysterical: or even remotely considered to be in the scheme of things.

 

no one is saying that there should be a mandatory retirement in sport....but may be I should stress the keywords for you again "backup" "planning" etc etc.

 

Dhoni is not  as indispensable as you make him out to be...even a struggling and scratchy  Pant scored a run a ball knock...it is not that hard to have a good average if you don't have the intent...s/r of 80 odd for a lower order power hitter is laughable these days when even 125-130 sr is considered pedestrian in some scenarios.

Saha has more LOI experience than the up-jumped kid with no accomplishments.

Backup is simply the next best guy available. that right now, is Saha. We can revisit next year or the year after, if the calculus changes.

 

I don't care what Pant does with the bat- unless he massively outshines Dhoni with the bat (which he is not), it does not make up for his inferior keeping. 

As for power-hitter, LOI is a combination of accumulation and power hitting. So long as a batsman is excelling in one or the other (accumulation or quick runs), their spot is safe. 

 

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1 hour ago, Khota said:

Dhoni had 5 wkt keepers from India who outperformed in IPL.

Not one.fact.

Not two.Fact.

Not three.fact.

Not four.Fact.

Five.fact.

What was your hero doing when 5 outperformed him. Capt Cool. What a joke.fact.

Dhoni is useless. Fact.

Your hero is sifarshi. Fact.

He needs to be out. Fact.

He will fail against Australia.Fact.

You will still want him in the team.Fact.

You are not rational.Fact.

You were dropped on your head as a baby.fact.

Nope. try again, Dhoni was the best keeper on display in IPL. 

Dhoni has not been outperformed in LOIs, even in list-A cricket. that is the fact.

Ofcourse he is likely to fail against Austraila. A guy sporting 90+ batting average for the year, is up for a low-scoring series. Law of averages says that. to discount it, is irrational.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Khota said:

Mind your language. 

First - Pant is better. Please dont quote averages in cricket as they mean nothing.

Pant along with 4 other keepers outscored dhoni. If you outscore someone you are considered better.

Pant is young and his reflexes are better.

Dhoni is better connected. He will not be my 5 th choice.

Pant is not better. If he was better, he'd be scoring way more runs and keeping better. Yet, Pant is not in the same league as Dhoni as a keeper. 

Pant outscored him, because he bats higher than Dhoni. Both have similar averages. 

 

I don' t care how good Pant's reflexes are. Dhoni is seasoned and has far better game sense. I don't care what choice he is for you- he is an automatic choice for most, because he is the best keeper in limited overs we have and nobody has a better average than him in LOIs. 


Pant is just an overhyped kid. Even Gillchrist had to wait behind Healey and Dhoni is 10 times the batsman Healy is. 

No time for sifarishi kids for just being young.

 

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2 hours ago, Khota said:

You are a special kind of stupid. Dont even have any confidence in your man. I think my man will go out and outscore everyone. That is the level of confidence I have.

 

Please dont quote law of averages. If you do well against SL and bad against Australia then averages have nothing to do with it.

Dhoni is not failing again. He is a perennial failure.

Only the special kind of stupid are those who see a batsman scoring at 90+ average for the year and not expect a failure, law of averages catching up, since 99.999% batsmen don't finish the year averaging 90+.

LOL at calling someone averaging 50+ for career with 80+ strike rate as a perennial failure.

Agenda driven ageist people who want sifarishi young kids in the side at expense of quality are so easy to out. 

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3 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

No, we don't care about one series. Excuses are a valid charge, when said guy is in a 15-20 match (LOI) swing of low performances.

Infact, we expect him to bomb during the Aus series. Law of averages mean a guy averaging 90+ and 80+ Strike rate will bomb soon enough.

I expect the ageist people here to use that as some sort of evidence of how Dhoni is 'failing' again.

 

 

3 hours ago, Laaloo said:

Don't worry. They have the excuses ready for the aus series. 

@Laaloo  There you have it. Excuse ready: Law of averages. :rotfl:

 

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People need to have a perspective that it is not about replacing Dhoni immediately. He might not be replaced even in next 2 years but at least have a back up plan ready. At least prepare a young player to take his place. Look at what happened to Australia after Gilchrist. They are still struggling to find that coveted WK/batsman in LOI cricket. Why didn't they select Pant against SL as back keeper is beyond me. He should even got a game or two. We need to keep giving him international exposure at the international level.

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1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

Nope. try again, Dhoni was the best keeper on display in IPL. 

Dhoni has not been outperformed in LOIs, even in list-A cricket. that is the fact.

Ofcourse he is likely to fail against Austraila. A guy sporting 90+ batting average for the year, is up for a low-scoring series. Law of averages says that. to discount it, is irrational.

 

 

If he will fail against Aus that will not be because of law of averages but because Aus has a better bowling attack than SL or WI.

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8 hours ago, Khota said:

You want me to do your home work. This time I will do it but from now on you are on your own.

These are the batsman/wkt keepers who outscored your hero in IPL.

Patel

Utthapa

Samson

Pant 

Karthick

 

Now you can respond with excuses.

u n ur ipl, go watch some international cricket

Karthik- what happened when he kep wkts in Asia cup few yrs ago, blunder after blunder

Uthappa- - bhajji blasted him for his poor keeping in Zimb on field 

Patel- His keeping has been poor ever since, also can he bat at 5,6

 

Btw u were suppose to show stats not throw names. Either show stats rather then saying random **** or dnt even bother replying 

 

Rather watching IPL , watch some international cricket

Edited by Ankit_sharma03
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6 hours ago, maniac said:

You can show those stats to prove how great MSD is but simple question what is the excuse that a 36 year old who will be 37 soon has no back up whatsoever? Now if someone has tried and failed sure I will buy the no alternative factor but how many backups have been tried since 2015 wc...also how many times have we played teams like Zim,Wi,SL since then...I will exclude Bangladesh as they are a good odi side these days so tell me why isn't there a back up.

 

The only guy who is irreplaceable in the team right now hands down is Kohli and god forbid even if he gets injured we have atleast 10 names that will sub for him...even though that will be a much bigger loss than any player in the team.

 

why are we harping on stats and pointless notouts when the problem is much bigger...now don't give the bs that Dhoni is not the selector etc...since 2015 WC, he was captain for the most  part....why wasn't an intitative taken to groom a successor atleast in dead rubbers or against weaker teams.

 

I take Dhoni's stats with a pinch of salt.....even Bhuvi got a 50 when his intention was to just save his wicket against some of the opposition.

Anyway I will not even get into Dhoni's performance as that's a debate for another day, but the entire argument that there is no alternative is totally flawed. 

 

simple- With Bhuvi grabbing every chance and Bumrah having a breakout year even a 25.00 average bowler like Shami can lose his spot with pandya getting in as an allrounder.

 

so lot of insecurity at play...maybe it's Dhoni,Maybe it's BCCI as Dhoni still generates a lot of ad revenue but something is definitely fishy.

I have answered most things in above post

15 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

I hve been screaming for over an year or more that dhoni shud no were be near t20 setup

I pretty much screamed in every game when pant was made to warm benches in WI and dropped in SL 

 

I hve been saying that guy is good enough to play as batsman only and yes start auditioning other keepers from t20 format atleast . It shud have been started with Samson and now pant n kishen has also emerged they can also be tried

 

But, our opinions dnt matter in real world. Ultimately its selector and team mngmt who will pick the team and if pant keeps having low or avg scores, Samson keeps having poor ranji season how will mngmt and selector get confidence to replace a figure like dhoni. To replace such a player u dnt have to knock the door but break it . Thats y i mentioned dhoni runs on A-tour and his way was easy to replace 2 failures. Its how selection dynamic works. 

 

Take iyers example, we have wanted rohit out and someone like iyer in for a few years , but his lack of perfomances wen it mattered hasnt helped his case . N again rohit sharma is also not someone diff to replace in test cricket 

Yes its been a failure that we havent tried new option with so many useless series we have had played . Rest m not the right person to answer why it hasnt happened 

 

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4 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

Saha has more LOI experience than the up-jumped kid with no accomplishments.

Backup is simply the next best guy available. that right now, is Saha. We can revisit next year or the year after, if the calculus changes.

 

I don't care what Pant does with the bat- unless he massively outshines Dhoni with the bat (which he is not), it does not make up for his inferior keeping. 

As for power-hitter, LOI is a combination of accumulation and power hitting. So long as a batsman is excelling in one or the other (accumulation or quick runs), their spot is safe. 

 

When was the last odi/t20 series Saha was selected as backup?

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