Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
rkt.india

Unrelenting bowling line-up offers India fresh edge

Recommended Posts

I like bumrah as an odi bowler but you just have to watch him bowl to see that he will struggle to get the right arm fast tag . He is a clever bowler though

 

Cummins on the other hand has shown real pace . I thought he had lost pace when i saw him against Pakistan after injury.

Share this post


Link to post
On 23/09/2017 at 11:24 AM, rkt.india said:

Waqar was never in the category of Akhtar, Tait, Lee.

He wasnt but  most batsmen say he was the fastest in the 90s and alot of them  call him express . He was obviously not shoaib akhtar circa 2002 -2004 but than not many are . Burewala express was definitely express before his stress fracture even after than when he was a lot slower he clocked over 150 kph.

Share this post


Link to post
20 minutes ago, the don said:

He wasnt but  most batsmen say he was the fastest in the 90s and alot of them  call him express . He was obviously not shoaib akhtar circa 2002 -2004 but than not many are . Burewala express was definitely express before his stress fracture even after than when he was a lot slower he clocked over 150 kph.

We didnt have many genuine fast bowlers during that time 89-95.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

We didnt have many genuine fast bowlers during that time 89-95.

True but he was clocked very very rarely from 89 to 95.

He still clocked speeds of 154 kph in 93 and 153 kph in 96 on the few occasions they had speed guns

That and the words of the peers lead me to beleive that he was genuinely express around 89 to 92.

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, the don said:

Shami needs to be fit enough 

 

Shami has had injury breaks and operations like most fast bowlers do .... but has played 13 tests in the last 14 months ....  he is playing most test matches.

 

Quote

Seen enough of shami and yadav and neither of them are faster then their counterparts around the world .

They hardly ever outpace the opposition bowlers in the same game

 

In test matches, Umesh and Shami ( even Ishant )  have been as quick as any other quick pacers , except Starc.  They are specialists is sustaining high pace in tests.

 

In LOIs,  there has been 3 or 4 quicker pacers.

 

Quote

let alone being fast by world standards . 

 

 

Ah ... that is an exaggeration and you know it.

Edited by express bowling

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, the don said:

Shami needs to be fit enough and aaron needs to be good enough to get on the park .

Seen enough of shami and yadav and neither of them are faster then their counterparts around the world .

They hardly ever outpace the opposition bowlers in the same game let alone being fast by world standards . 

Its not like the matches are not live.

Biggest joke its vitriol like this that sets pak fans apart delusional jihad variety. Dude admir is a trundler in tests. Shami Yadav average 140 in completed tests and peak 145 -148, thats comfortably faster than anything pak bowlers bowl in tests.

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, the don said:

True but he was clocked very very rarely from 89 to 95.

He still clocked speeds of 154 kph in 93 and 153 kph in 96 on the few occasions they had speed guns

That and the words of the peers lead me to beleive that he was genuinely express around 89 to 92.

In the same periof Srinath was clocked faster sorry..chuckoslamaktar is the only fast man from pak..

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, the don said:

He wasnt but  most batsmen say he was the fastest in the 90s and alot of them  call him express . He was obviously not shoaib akhtar circa 2002 -2004 but than not many are . Burewala express was definitely express before his stress fracture even after than when he was a lot slower he clocked over 150 kph.

Nope he was clocked 140 to 145 which is fast still for pak standards as seen now.

Share this post


Link to post
He wasnt but  most batsmen say he was the fastest in the 90s and alot of them  call him express . He was obviously not shoaib akhtar circa 2002 -2004 but than not many are . Burewala express was definitely express before his stress fracture even after than when he was a lot slower he clocked over 150 kph.
Lol kaunsewala express yar ye kya hai kabhi chawalbhindi express aur Kabhi burwala express lol.

Sent from my vivo 1601 using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post

Shami+BKumar+Bumrah+UYadav (or another pacer who puts his hand up)

+

Pandya

Jadeja+Chahal+Kuldeep

 

This is a good set of bowlers. Management needs to make sure they are rotated and all get match practice over the next year and a half. In case of injuries, you don't want to get caught unprepared. 

Share this post


Link to post
Shami+BKumar+Bumrah+UYadav (or another pacer who puts his hand up)
+
Pandya

Jadeja+Chahal+Kuldeep
 
This is a good set of bowlers. Management needs to make sure they are rotated and all get match practice over the next year and a half. In case of injuries, you don't want to get caught unprepared. 
I think what India is missing is a tall bowler and a left arm pacer, avesh Khan,aniket chaudhary,may be the answer and who knows we can add siraj as well to the list.

Sent from my vivo 1601 using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
ODI team was such a joke barely 10 months ago. I'm enjoying this. This team has all the ingredients to become an ATG side. 
We need few more hitters in middle order I am not sold on jadhav, his fielding is a liability,and a lower order hitter who can pack a punch, I would go with shankar, also rahane as a opener is strict no
Pant should open
I'd have shankar at 6,hardik at 7,krunal at 8 with bhuvi /shami 9, kuldeep 10, bumrah 11

Sent from my vivo 1601 using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, surajmal said:

ODI team was such a joke barely 10 months ago. I'm enjoying this. This team has all the ingredients to become an ATG side. 

I think they will be beaten by the same Aussie side in Aus in ODI in most games. In flat low pitches and batting decks they are still troubled by some of the balls.

Share this post


Link to post
26 minutes ago, vayuu1 said:

We need few more hitters in middle order I am not sold on jadhav, his fielding is a liability,and a lower order hitter who can pack a punch, I would go with shankar, also rahane as a opener is strict no
Pant should open
I'd have shankar at 6,hardik at 7,krunal at 8 with bhuvi /shami 9, kuldeep 10, bumrah 11

Sent from my vivo 1601 using Tapatalk
 

Thats what I mean. There are capable replacements waiting in the wings. 

Share this post


Link to post
16 minutes ago, Vilander said:

I think they will be beaten by the same Aussie side in Aus in ODI in most games. In flat low pitches and batting decks they are still troubled by some of the balls.

It was their pathetic bowling that screwed them last time in Australia. Battingwise, they were just fine. 

Share this post


Link to post
19 hours ago, the don said:

Most batsmen of the 90s reckon waqar was the quickest at the time . There is documented evidence

Lol he even clocked well over 90 mph in a test match where they had speed guns in 96 when he wasnt even at his peak . There is a video on youtube .

 

 

I already mentioned the fastest he was clocked was at 152.. Anyway, please show me the video from 96 where he is clocking 90mph. I can also show you videos where both Wasim and Waqar are trundling in lower end of 130's and that too in 93-94.

 

As far as ' most batsmen of the 90's '... Can you please name all of those batsmen. And also quote if they made the statement by themselves or were words specifically fed to their mouth? You see, there's a difference. When someone talks about the best batsman of this era, unanimously people speak of Sachin. But when words are fed, answers are diplomatic. eg- How was inzamam as a batsman during your playing years... Now, no international player would go ahead and say' Look, Inzimam was the stupidest batsmen we ever played against. Not only would he run himself out, he would get others run out too!' Instead, the answer would be something like this - He was one of the finest batsman I played against. ( Which is also true ).

 

Also, players are biased, or at times dont calculate too much. if someone were to ask ' who was the best fielder in the 90's?' , players would take JOnty Rhodes's name. They won't consider Azhar. Although Azhar was a pioneer and was the best fielder in any position, unlike Jonty who was a champion only at point. Since nobody talks of Azhar and his prowess, he went unnoticed.

 

Also, I am pretty much sure if someone were to ask who was the fastest bowler of 90's, most batsmen would say Allan Donald and not Waqar Younis. Although Srinath was clocked around 10k's faster when they played together, and almost in all encounters Srinath was faster than Donald.

 

So, what I am trying to say is, you can't always take the words of player as final word, also when you put words in their mouth, they will be forced to say things which they don't mean. While Waqar definitely was a genuine fast bowler, he wasn't all that he is made out to be. You have to think from a neutral perspective if you are really honest to yourself. He was a 145- 148ish bowler, but after a few years, more into the 130's and 140's.

Also, if you try to remove the green glasses, you will also know that your Imran Khan was never a genuine quick bowler. He was a fast medium bowler. More like Agarkar, who was predominantly a 140-143ish bowler and at times could bowl at 145-147. I have video of Greg Chappell saying Imran Khan was fast medium.

Share this post


Link to post
19 hours ago, the don said:

Shami needs to be fit enough and aaron needs to be good enough to get on the park .

Seen enough of shami and yadav and neither of them are faster then their counterparts around the world .

They hardly ever outpace the opposition bowlers in the same game let alone being fast by world standards . 

Its not like the matches are not live.

I think you should be careful of what you say. Because Umesh and Shami are consistently about 7-10k's faster than any of the Pakistani bowlers, atleast in tests. That would make Pakistani bowlers trundlers ( which they are ).

I am compelled to believe matches are not live because you seem to be living in some lala land where you are unable to see the pace of Pakistani trundlers and Indian fast bowlers.

Share this post


Link to post
49 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

I already mentioned the fastest he was clocked was at 152.. Anyway, please show me the video from 96 where he is clocking 90mph. I can also show you videos where both Wasim and Waqar are trundling in lower end of 130's and that too in 93-94.

 

As far as ' most batsmen of the 90's '... Can you please name all of those batsmen. And also quote if they made the statement by themselves or were words specifically fed to their mouth? You see, there's a difference. When someone talks about the best batsman of this era, unanimously people speak of Sachin. But when words are fed, answers are diplomatic. eg- How was inzamam as a batsman during your playing years... Now, no international player would go ahead and say' Look, Inzimam was the stupidest batsmen we ever played against. Not only would he run himself out, he would get others run out too!' Instead, the answer would be something like this - He was one of the finest batsman I played against. ( Which is also true ).

 

Also, players are biased, or at times dont calculate too much. if someone were to ask ' who was the best fielder in the 90's?' , players would take JOnty Rhodes's name. They won't consider Azhar. Although Azhar was a pioneer and was the best fielder in any position, unlike Jonty who was a champion only at point. Since nobody talks of Azhar and his prowess, he went unnoticed.

 

Also, I am pretty much sure if someone were to ask who was the fastest bowler of 90's, most batsmen would say Allan Donald and not Waqar Younis. Although Srinath was clocked around 10k's faster when they played together, and almost in all encounters Srinath was faster than Donald.

 

So, what I am trying to say is, you can't always take the words of player as final word, also when you put words in their mouth, they will be forced to say things which they don't mean. While Waqar definitely was a genuine fast bowler, he wasn't all that he is made out to be. You have to think from a neutral perspective if you are really honest to yourself. He was a 145- 148ish bowler, but after a few years, more into the 130's and 140's.

Also, if you try to remove the green glasses, you will also know that your Imran Khan was never a genuine quick bowler. He was a fast medium bowler. More like Agarkar, who was predominantly a 140-143ish bowler and at times could bowl at 145-147. I have video of Greg Chappell saying Imran Khan was fast medium.

hilarious how clueless you are 

Clocked at 154 kph in 93 and 153 kph in 96 .

Nobody had to tell a batsman how good or quick waqar was . He was breaking toes at the time .

I dont care  what you think about Imran because he was the 3rd fastest bowler in a speed competition behind thmpson and holding , a contest where they didnt deem any Indian bowler worthy of inviting.

Your inferiority complex is apparent because nobody was biased against srinath he just wasnt good enough to be mentioned in the same breath as waqar lol .We have all seen Srinath . He is rated by his peers at least a couple of leagues below waqar i.

Dean jones said waqar was the quickest he had faced just the other day on twitter in addition to almost everyone involved with cricket at the time..

There is a huge list of names from england , newzealand , southafrica , westindies , australia who echoed the sentiment .

Seiously srinath of all people ffs. Haha matlab kuch bhi.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Rightarmfast said:

I already mentioned the fastest he was clocked was at 152.. Anyway, please show me the video from 96 where he is clocking 90mph. I can also show you videos where both Wasim and Waqar are trundling in lower end of 130's and that too in 93-94.

 

As far as ' most batsmen of the 90's '... Can you please name all of those batsmen. And also quote if they made the statement by themselves or were words specifically fed to their mouth? You see, there's a difference. When someone talks about the best batsman of this era, unanimously people speak of Sachin. But when words are fed, answers are diplomatic. eg- How was inzamam as a batsman during your playing years... Now, no international player would go ahead and say' Look, Inzimam was the stupidest batsmen we ever played against. Not only would he run himself out, he would get others run out too!' Instead, the answer would be something like this - He was one of the finest batsman I played against. ( Which is also true ).

 

Also, players are biased, or at times dont calculate too much. if someone were to ask ' who was the best fielder in the 90's?' , players would take JOnty Rhodes's name. They won't consider Azhar. Although Azhar was a pioneer and was the best fielder in any position, unlike Jonty who was a champion only at point. Since nobody talks of Azhar and his prowess, he went unnoticed.

 

Also, I am pretty much sure if someone were to ask who was the fastest bowler of 90's, most batsmen would say Allan Donald and not Waqar Younis. Although Srinath was clocked around 10k's faster when they played together, and almost in all encounters Srinath was faster than Donald.

 

So, what I am trying to say is, you can't always take the words of player as final word, also when you put words in their mouth, they will be forced to say things which they don't mean. While Waqar definitely was a genuine fast bowler, he wasn't all that he is made out to be. You have to think from a neutral perspective if you are really honest to yourself. He was a 145- 148ish bowler, but after a few years, more into the 130's and 140's.

Also, if you try to remove the green glasses, you will also know that your Imran Khan was never a genuine quick bowler. He was a fast medium bowler. More like Agarkar, who was predominantly a 140-143ish bowler and at times could bowl at 145-147. I have video of Greg Chappell saying Imran Khan was fast medium.

hilarious how clueless you are 

Clocked at 154 kph in 93 and 153 kph in 96 .

Nobody had to tell a batsman how good or quick waqar was . He was breaking toes at the time .

I dont care  what you think about Imran because he was the 3rd fastest bowler in a speed competition behind thmpson and holding , a contest where they didnt deem any Indian bowler worthy of inviting.

Your inferiority complex is apparent because nobody was biased against srinath he just wasnt good enough to be mentioned in the same breath as waqar lol .We have all seen Srinath . He is rated by his peers at least a couple of leagues below waqar i.

Dean jones said waqar was the quickest he had faced just the other day on twitter in addition to almost everyone involved with cricket at the time..

There is a huge list of names from england , newzealand , southafrica , westindies , australia who echoed the sentiment .

Seiously srinath of all people ffs. Haha matlab kuch bhi.

Share this post


Link to post

When alec stewart speaks you listen THE QUICKEST BOWLER HE KEPT TO .

 

 

Watch what neutrals like nasser hussain , mike atherton , ian bishop , allan donald , martin crowe have to say about his speed through the air and learn .

Edited by the don

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, the don said:

When alec stewart speaks you listen THE QUICKEST BOWLER HE KEPT TO .

 

 

Watch what neutrals like nasser hussain , mike atherton , ian bishop , allan donald , martin crowe have to say about his speed through the air and learn .

Since you mentioned Alec Stewart, let's see who he says was the quickest -

 

 

Let me know which name you come up with next, so I debunk it

Cheers!

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

Since you mentioned Alec Stewart, let's see who he says was the quickest -

 

 

Let me know which name you come up with next, so I debunk it

Cheers!

Watch the video . Infact watch what allan donald himself had to say about Waqar . Waqar and Donald were the Lee and Akhtar of the time albeit not as quick . Read the names . Research .one thing will be in common . Nobody wil mention srinath in the same breath neither should you. 

Cheers.

Edited by the don

Share this post


Link to post
19 minutes ago, the don said:

Watch the video . Infact watch what allan donald himself had to say about Waqar . Waqar and Donald were the Lee and Akhtar of the time albeit not as quick . Read the names . Research .one thing will be in common . Nobody wil mention srinath in the same breath neither should you. 

Cheers.

Don't run away buddy. Srinath was never in the conversation, and I didn't even make any claims. Your claim was Alec calling Waqar the world's fastest, and I already gave my reasons earlier. And this video proves it. I just debunked your theory that waqar was fastest, so dont run away. Please come up with a better logic and argument.

Share this post


Link to post

Waqar was definitely more than express and Akram could bowl as fast as anybody . I would take both of them over Akthar who might have more speed but he was all over the place.This is something Imran has to get credit.He started as medium pacer but developed into genuine fast bowler.Imran emphasised speed has no substitute.

 

No Indian fast bowler has been in their  class.Srinath never had self belief to be the best even though he had pace that is why he rarely get mentioned in same breath as other great fast bowlers.Thompson does not have great stats but anyone who played with or against him will tell him he really had that pace which put fear of god into batsmen.

 

No one tells that about Srinath because he was not feared by batsmen like they feared his peers Waqar, Donald or Akram because it is not just speed you need hostility from fast bowler which you never got from Srinath.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
20 minutes ago, the don said:

 . Nobody wil mention srinath in the same breath

 

 

 

As far as pace is concerned, Srinath did not get his due as he was Indian ... and we were not known to produce fast bowlers in the '90s.  That is how perception worked in the absence of regular speed-gun usage.

 

This is what your Imran Khan had to say about Srinath's speed

 

" Once in an interview, 1992 World cup winning Pakistan captain Imran Khan said that after watching him bowl 150 km/h speed on Indian pitches, he considered Srinath to be the most grossly underrated bowler in the world. "

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javagal_Srinath

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
19 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

 

As far as pace is concerned, Srinath did not get his due as he was Indian ... and we were not known to produce fast bowlers in the '90s.  That is how perception worked in the absence of regular speed-gun usage.

 

This is what your Imran Khan had to say about Srinath's speed

 

" Once in an interview, 1992 World cup winning Pakistan captain Imran Khan said that after watching him bowl 150 km/h speed on Indian pitches, he considered Srinath to be the most grossly underrated bowler in the world. "

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javagal_Srinath

 

 

That is just nonsense speed guns has got nothing to do with people not giving Srinath his due he was just not as good as others.Warne was revered more than Kumble even though Kumble comes from a country which is known for spin bowling. The reason being Warne was far better leg spinner than Kumble.

 

Srinath might have been underrated but he definitely was nowhere near Waqar or Akram either in skill or pace.

Share this post


Link to post
9 hours ago, putrevus said:

That is just nonsense speed guns has got nothing to do with people not giving Srinath his due he was just not as good as others.

 

Read properly before starting to jump.   I said   As far as pace is concerned, Srinath did not get his due ".  His quality as a bowler has no relevance to what I said.

 

 

Quote

Warne was revered more than Kumble even though Kumble comes from a country which is known for spin bowling. The reason being Warne was far better leg spinner than Kumble.

Again, this point is not relevant as I was discussing pace.... and not the quality of bowling.

 

Moreover, if a bowler is really good and has a low average, he will be recognized in terms of quality irrespective of his country.... like we are seeing with Bumrah's LOI bowling.

 

Quote

 

Srinath might have been underrated but he definitely was nowhere near Waqar or Akram either in skill or pace.

 

Wasim and Waqar were more skilled than Srinath ..... that is very true.

 

Srinath being no-where near the pace of Wasim and Waqar .... this statement has no basis and any actual data regarding speeds prove otherwise.

 

 

1 )  Srinath touched 156 k in 1996 in SA.  He was quicker than Donald in 1996. Reference below ....

 

 " Between December '96 and February '97 Srinath's speeds were timed in excess of 150kph and were comparable to those of both Allan Donald and South Africa's 'new' pace sensation Lance Klusener. Whilst Klusener's fastest ball came in at 154kph and he proved at the time to be faster than Donald, it has been brought to my attention on numerous occasions that Srinath pipped them both with one particular delivery measured at 156kph. "

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/story/111878.html

 

 

2 )  Srinath touched 157 k in 1997, in Zimbabwe. Reference below.

 

The Zimbabwe captain Alistair Campbell revealed that Srinath was recorded at 157 km/hr on 27 January 1997 in the game at Paarl between India and Zimbabwe. He said about this game: "We then moved on to our second game against India, at Boland Bank Park. In all 236 was quite a decent score, as it wasn't the easiest of pitches to bat on, and Srinath I think bowled the quickest that any of our guys had ever seen. He bowled a really quick spell early on, even quicker than Allan Donald; he was timed at 157 km/h, a good 10 km/h faster than Donald was bowling throughout the tournament. Grant Flower was hit on the thigh pad, and when he came off he said he thought he had broken his leg"

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javagal_Srinath

 

 

3 )   " Old " Srinath, after his shoulder operation, was the 2nd fastest bowler in WC 1999 .... Old Srinath was quicker than old Wasim  and old Donald.. Reference below.....

 

" At the tournament's first match Srinath and McGrath went head to head once more. This time it was evident for all the world to see that Javagal Srinath was no medium pacer, but was a genuine speedster clocking up 149.6kph.  Srinath proved to be the second fastest bowler of the tournament next to Shoaib (154.5kph) "

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/story/111878.html

 

 

4)  Any reference of Wasim reaching these kind of speeds  ?   I could not find any .

 

 

5)  Waqar was quick in 1989-92 range .... but no reference of him going way over 157 k. No reference of old Waqar touching 150 k either like old Srinath did.

 

So, it is strongly incorrect to say Srinath might have been underrated but he definitely was nowhere near Waqar or Akram either in skill or pace "  like you did.

 

 

 

 

Edited by express bowling

Share this post


Link to post

^^ Why are we Indians obsessed with speed gun readings, it does not matter if srinath was clocked @ 165k . Srinath was not as good as either Waqar or Akram .

It took long time for Srinath to find his length.He would have been deadly if he had mastered reverse swing with his inswing action.

Speed matters but without any skill or movement  that speed is useless. Both Yadav and Aaron have speed  other than few matches here and there from Yadav both have done nothing major.Aaron has been total bust if he was any good he would be taking bucket loads of wickets in domestic cricket.Yadav I have hope let us wait and see how he pans out in next couple of years. Both of them made debut  in 2011 which is long time ago.

 If you are averaging over 138 -140 k with ability to bump up your speed when needed you would be just fine if you have other skills which are more important than speed.

The difference between Pakistani fast bowlers and Indian fast bowlers IMHO is they don't give up as easily as Indian fast bowlers when things are not going well.

Edited by putrevus

Share this post


Link to post
49 minutes ago, putrevus said:

^^ Why are we Indians obsessed with speed gun readings, it does not matter if srinath was clocked @ 165k . Srinath was not as good as either Waqar or Akram .

It took long time for Srinath to find his length.He would have been deadly if he had mastered reverse swing with his inswing action.

Speed matters but without any skill or movement  that speed is useless. Both Yadav and Aaron have speed  other than few matches here and there from Yadav both have done nothing major.Aaron has been total bust if he was any good he would be taking bucket loads of wickets in domestic cricket.Yadav I have hope let us wait and see how he pans out in next couple of years. Both of them made debut  in 2011 which is long time ago.

 If you are averaging over 138 -140 k with ability to bump up your speed when needed you would be just fine if you have other skills which are more important than speed.

The difference between Pakistani fast bowlers and Indian fast bowlers IMHO is they don't give up as easily as Indian fast bowlers when things are not going well.

 

This is  a classic case of changing track when faced with facts.  My post was just about speed because I was replying to a reference of Srinath's speed by another poster and you know it.   And then you said that Srinath was nowhere near Wasim or Waqar in terms of speed.  So, I replied to the speed part with data.

 

Have I or anyone else here said that only pace is important  ?   Has any one disputed the need to combine skills with pace  ?  What are you even fighting about  ?

 

Srinath's pace assumed extra importance for Indians because it gave future Indian pacers  the belief for the first time after our independence that Indians too can bowl fast.  This point is missed by many.

 

 

Edited by express bowling

Share this post


Link to post
On 9/24/2017 at 12:16 PM, Vilander said:

Biggest joke its vitriol like this that sets pak fans apart delusional jihad variety. Dude admir is a trundler in tests. Shami Yadav average 140 in completed tests and peak 145 -148, thats comfortably faster than anything pak bowlers bowl in tests.

No amount of reality checks will wake up the self-delusional from their dream.   

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

This is  a classic case of changing track when faced with facts.  My post was just about speed because I was replying to a reference of Srinath's speed by another poster and you know it.   And then you said that Srinath was nowhere near Wasim or Waqar in terms of speed.  So, I replied to the speed part with data.

 

Have I or anyone else here said that only pace is important  ?   Has any one disputed the need to combine skills with pace  ?  What are you even fighting about  ?

 

Srinath's pace assumed extra importance for Indians because it gave future Indian pacers  the belief for the first time after our independence that Indians too can bowl fast.  This point is missed by many.

 

 

 

Even speed wise Srinath never had the speed of either Waqar or Akram on a consistent basis. See Srinath might have had some fast spells he even broke  Dereck Pringle's nose way back in 1992. But he never was as lethal as Waqar or Wasim. So your point of quoting speed gun readings and quotes about his speed are irrelevant in my view.

 

He never had lethal speed but Younis had that speed early in his career before his back injury. The speed in case of Younis got accentuated by the lengths and movement he generated.Srinath had opposite effect on batsmen due to length which was lot shorter than Younis. Younis was deadly before he lost his speed , I don't want to admit it but those two were so lethal.

 

 

 

Edited by putrevus

Share this post


Link to post
7 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Read properly before starting to jump.   I said   As far as pace is concerned, Srinath did not get his due ".  His quality as a bowler has no relevance to what I said.

 

 

Again, this point is not relevant as I was discussing pace.... and not the quality of bowling.

 

Moreover, if a bowler is really good and has a low average, he will be recognized in terms of quality irrespective of his country.... like we are seeing with Bumrah's LOI bowling.

 

 

Wasim and Waqar were more skilled than Srinath ..... that is very true.

 

Srinath being no-where near the pace of Wasim and Waqar .... this statement has no basis and any actual data regarding speeds prove otherwise.

 

 

1 )  Srinath touched 156 k in 1996 in SA.  He was quicker than Donald in 1996. Reference below ....

 

 " Between December '96 and February '97 Srinath's speeds were timed in excess of 150kph and were comparable to those of both Allan Donald and South Africa's 'new' pace sensation Lance Klusener. Whilst Klusener's fastest ball came in at 154kph and he proved at the time to be faster than Donald, it has been brought to my attention on numerous occasions that Srinath pipped them both with one particular delivery measured at 156kph. "

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/story/111878.html

 

 

2 )  Srinath touched 157 k in 1997, in Zimbabwe. Reference below.

 

The Zimbabwe captain Alistair Campbell revealed that Srinath was recorded at 157 km/hr on 27 January 1997 in the game at Paarl between India and Zimbabwe. He said about this game: "We then moved on to our second game against India, at Boland Bank Park. In all 236 was quite a decent score, as it wasn't the easiest of pitches to bat on, and Srinath I think bowled the quickest that any of our guys had ever seen. He bowled a really quick spell early on, even quicker than Allan Donald; he was timed at 157 km/h, a good 10 km/h faster than Donald was bowling throughout the tournament. Grant Flower was hit on the thigh pad, and when he came off he said he thought he had broken his leg"

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javagal_Srinath

 

 

3 )   " Old " Srinath, after his shoulder operation, was the 2nd fastest bowler in WC 1999 .... Old Srinath was quicker than old Wasim  and old Donald.. Reference below.....

 

" At the tournament's first match Srinath and McGrath went head to head once more. This time it was evident for all the world to see that Javagal Srinath was no medium pacer, but was a genuine speedster clocking up 149.6kph.  Srinath proved to be the second fastest bowler of the tournament next to Shoaib (154.5kph) "

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/story/111878.html

 

 

4)  Any reference of Wasim reaching these kind of speeds  ?   I could not find any .

 

 

5)  Waqar was quick in 1989-92 range .... but no reference of him going way over 157 k. No reference of old Waqar touching 150 k either like old Srinath did.

 

So, it is strongly incorrect to say Srinath might have been underrated but he definitely was nowhere near Waqar or Akram either in skill or pace "  like you did.

 

 

 

 

Complete and utter ownage right there. Well done EB

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, putrevus said:

 

Even speed wise Srinath never had the speed of either Waqar or Akram on a consistent basis. See Srinath might have had some fast spells he even broke  Dereck Pringle's nose way back in 1992. But he never was as lethal as Waqar or Wasim. So your point of quoting speed gun readings and quotes about his speed are irrelevant in my view.

 

He never had lethal speed but Younis had that speed early in his career before his back injury. The speed in case of Younis got accentuated by the lengths and movement he generated.Srinath had opposite effect on batsmen due to length which was lot shorter than Younis. Younis was deadly before he lost his speed , I don't want to admit it but those two were so lethal.

 

 

 

Not lethal lol pak term. They are bowlers not sharp shooters.  Besides Srinath was faster than Ws but not better skilled at all times of his career for sure.

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, putrevus said:

 

Even speed wise Srinath never had the speed of either Waqar or Akram on a consistent basis. See Srinath might have had some fast spells he even broke  Dereck Pringle's nose way back in 1992. But he never was as lethal as Waqar or Wasim. So your point of quoting speed gun readings and quotes about his speed are irrelevant in my view.

 

He never had lethal speed but Younis had that speed early in his career before his back injury. The speed in case of Younis got accentuated by the lengths and movement he generated.Srinath had opposite effect on batsmen due to length which was lot shorter than Younis. Younis was deadly before he lost his speed , I don't want to admit it but those two were so lethal.

 

 

 

tell you why were they lethal? bottle caps

Share this post


Link to post
16 hours ago, putrevus said:

That is just nonsense speed guns has got nothing to do with people not giving Srinath his due he was just not as good as others.Warne was revered more than Kumble even though Kumble comes from a country which is known for spin bowling. The reason being Warne was far better leg spinner than Kumble.

 

Srinath might have been underrated but he definitely was nowhere near Waqar or Akram either in skill or pace.

rubbish,srinath was as quick as anyone ,but he didnt have the skill,it's like starc vs gabriel, steyn vs viljoen .pace is overhyped if the bowler is good.srinath tried to bowl too fast, at times getting caught up in the hype of how fast all these int bowlers are,thats where he missed out.

Share this post


Link to post
9 hours ago, putrevus said:

 

Even speed wise Srinath never had the speed of either Waqar or Akram on a consistent basis. See Srinath might have had some fast spells he even broke  Dereck Pringle's nose way back in 1992. But he never was as lethal as Waqar or Wasim. So your point of quoting speed gun readings and quotes about his speed are irrelevant in my view.

 

He never had lethal speed but Younis had that speed early in his career before his back injury. The speed in case of Younis got accentuated by the lengths and movement he generated.Srinath had opposite effect on batsmen due to length which was lot shorter than Younis. Younis was deadly before he lost his speed , I don't want to admit it but those two were so lethal.

 

 

 

Srinath was consistently quick and threatening .... injured many batsmen which included  career-ending injuries to Meryck Pringle and Lanka Silva, both of whom were hit on their face despite wearing visors 

 

But  " lethal "  bowling is not dependent on bowling speeds alone. It depends on combining pace, bounce, accuracy, movement, ability to set-up batsmen, match awareness etc.

 

Shami and Ishant bowl similar speeds, but Shami is  way more " lethal " because he combines pace / bounce with much better skills.

 

Srinath , although not as skilled as Wasim, was still quite good in terms of skills.  He never sprayed the ball around.  He has the 2nd best average among retired test pacers from India.  Srinath was very dangerous in the sub-continent and averaged 26 in tests here.   

 

Here is " old " Srinath,  after losing pace, taking 13 wickets in a test vs Pakistan in India  looking very " lethal " 

 

 

 

 

 

His only problem was bowling in places like Australia, WI etc.

Edited by express bowling

Share this post


Link to post

/\ Even in this match, Srinath was bowling at a very high pace, as is evident. I remember Rameez Raja commenting ' It's not easy to play against the pace of Srinath'. I remember the match vividly. When Shahid Afridi got hit on the hand, he acted as if he hadnt nicked it. But the ball was so quick, he just couldnt resist and gave it away by throwing his gloves. it might not be in this highlight.

 

Btw, @putrevus pretty hilarious at how you change stance once presented with facts. Second, could you tell me how many batsmen consider Shaun Tait to be lethal?

Share this post


Link to post
10 hours ago, Vilander said:

Not lethal lol pak term. They are bowlers not sharp shooters.  Besides Srinath was faster than Ws but not better skilled at all times of his career for sure.

What good it did to Srinath if he was faster??

Share this post


Link to post
10 hours ago, rkt.india said:

tell you why were they lethal? bottle caps

You think it was just bottle caps, I always thought it was the case but after reading all the  past players had to say about them has changed my view. I do think they had more wicket taking abilities.Whole world would not be giving them credit for nothing.

 

If it was just due to cheating then they wouldn't have survived so long in international cricket.

 

 

Edited by putrevus

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

/\ Even in this match, Srinath was bowling at a very high pace, as is evident. I remember Rameez Raja commenting ' It's not easy to play against the pace of Srinath'. I remember the match vividly. When Shahid Afridi got hit on the hand, he acted as if he hadnt nicked it. But the ball was so quick, he just couldnt resist and gave it away by throwing his gloves. it might not be in this highlight.

 

Btw, @putrevus pretty hilarious at how you change stance once presented with facts. Second, could you tell me how many batsmen consider Shaun Tait to be lethal?

I am not changing stance at all , Shaun Tait is perfect example of just pace and nothing much else. Perth 2008 Laxman and RP singh were batting in second innings and if you remember Laxman's interview after the match.He was shielding RP from Johnson but not Tail as RP was have little trouble in facing Tait.

 

I don't care what pace Srinath bowled in a spell or spell .He was not as good as or as fast as Ws on consistent basis.

Share this post


Link to post
52 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I am not changing stance at all , Shaun Tait is perfect example of just pace and nothing much else. Perth 2008 Laxman and RP singh were batting in second innings and if you remember Laxman's interview after the match.He was shielding RP from Johnson but not Tail as RP was have little trouble in facing Tait.

 

I don't care what pace Srinath bowled in a spell or spell .He was not as good as or as fast as Ws on consistent basis.

How and why? Please elaborate...

 

You just contradicted yourself. We were talking about pace, and then you make a comment and when presented with facts, you resort to quality of bowling. And then again go back to pace. So please prove your point.

Share this post


Link to post
6 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

How and why? Please elaborate...

 

You just contradicted yourself. We were talking about pace, and then you make a comment and when presented with facts, you resort to quality of bowling. And then again go back to pace. So please prove your point.

Pace and quality are interlinked one without the other is almost useless. Do you agree??

Share this post


Link to post
6 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Pace and quality are interlinked one without the other is almost useless. Do you agree??

 

It is possible to have pace without quality .... like Md. Sami of Pakistan

 

It is also possible to have quality without pace .... like Philander of SA.

 

But how does Srinath become slower if Wasim was a better bowler .... please explain as you said this  ",He was not as good as or as fast as Ws on consistent basis." 

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, rkt.india said:

No.  They are not. You don't very high pace to be successful. High pace is just an added advantage.  

They are , you don't have to have 160 kmph but you cannot be 115 trundler too. 135-140 is minimum range needed to be good fast bowler and for great bowler you should be consistently operating in these speeds with ability to crank up when needed.

 

My point about Srinath was he was never in Akthar speed category and he certainly did not have the skills of two Ws. He had good enough speed but did not have other tools to become a great fast bowler that's all and he was not underrated certainly because he was an Indian fast bowler. So these speed guns reading about him are really irrelevant.

 

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

It is possible to have pace without quality .... like Md. Sami of Pakistan

 

It is also possible to have quality without pace .... like Philander of SA.

 

But how does Srinath become slower if Wasim was a better bowler .... please explain as you said this  ",He was not as good as or as fast as Ws on consistent basis." 

Philander is not the same bowler under unhelpful conditions.

 

Do you think Srinath was as fast as either Ws on consistent basis , I don't think he was. Akram had ability to bowl as fast as anybody.Younis sure had more pace than Srinath when he was in full swing those toe crushing yorkers are testament to that fact.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoticons maximum are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

Guest, sign in to access all features.

×