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Hardik pandya as a player

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Pandya will be a huge  burden on india in tests especially overseas- cant regularly take wickets and also struggles against pace if its good length ball + he wont get 2 spinners in overseas tours...

along with dhoni, he is the most overrated player in team..

best player in team is an explosive bowling all-rounder who picks up wickets regularly..

will be thrown out from team  like a used condom after overseas tours...lol

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On 10/29/2017 at 7:04 PM, LORD_analyst said:

Pandya will be a huge  burden on india in tests especially overseas- cant regularly take wickets and also struggles against pace if its good length ball + he wont get 2 spinners in overseas tours...

along with dhoni, he is the most overrated player in team..

best player in team is an explosive bowling all-rounder who picks up wickets regularly..

will be thrown out from team  like a used condom after overseas tours...lol

Where was Champions trophy played? In India?  How did he do with the bat and ball in those games?

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On 10/29/2017 at 7:15 PM, sandeep said:

Where was Champions trophy played? In India?  How did he do with the bat and ball in those games?

 In  final of ct 17  in batting he scored about 15-20 runs on seamers and rest on spinners ....

also his bowling was good on that day   .....u can justify capabilities of player just by 1 match...

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It is too early to say if he will be success or failure in tests away from subcontinent.If Stuart Binny can play six tests this guy deserves his chances.I still don't know what his stock delivery is and one more thing is can he sustain pace, he drops to trundling speed in odis sometimes.

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12 minutes ago, putrevus said:

It is too early to say if he will be success or failure in tests away from subcontinent.If Stuart Binny can play six tests this guy deserves his chances.I still don't know what his stock delivery is and one more thing is can he sustain pace, he drops to trundling speed in odis sometimes.

he is not your main bowler in tests. He is an alrounder as 4th seamer. He is not going to bowl more than 10-15 overs a day and he has already started well in tests, already a test 100 under his belt.

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1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

he is not your main bowler in tests. He is an alrounder as 4th seamer. He is not going to bowl more than 10-15 overs a day and he has already started well in tests, already a test 100 under his belt.

Binny was an allrounder too. he scored 70 odd  in England.Pandya has scored majority of runs against spinners.It is yet to be seen he is good enough to bat at no 6, VVS Laxman was India's no 6. All rounder does not mean bits and pieces player.

As an allrounder Pandya should walk into the team either as a bowler or a batsman. As Gambhir said he needs to improve his batting a lot to fit that role.He will never be good enough to walk into the team as a bowler.

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5 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Binny was an allrounder too. he scored 70 odd  in England.Pandya has scored majority of runs against spinners.It is yet to be seen he is good enough to bat at no 6, VVS Laxman was India's no 6. All rounder does not mean bits and pieces player.

As an allrounder Pandya should walk into the team either as a bowler or a batsman. As Gambhir said he needs to improve his batting a lot to fit that role.He will never be good enough to walk into the team as a bowler.

Pandya is a batsman, not a bits and pieces. He is already good enough to walk into this team as a batsman alone in top 6, especially in ODIs. Tests, time will tell.

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6 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Pandya is a batsman, not a bits and pieces. He is already good enough to walk into this team as a batsman alone in top 6, especially in ODIs. Tests, time will tell.

The discussion is about tests not odis, no one is questioning his place in odis.Tests I am not sure , I don't think we have seen enough to make an assessment on him as batsman but  at this point he is the definition of bits and pieces player. 

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On 10/29/2017 at 7:04 PM, LORD_analyst said:

Pandya will be a huge  burden on india in tests especially overseas- cant regularly take wickets and also struggles against pace if its good length ball + he wont get 2 spinners in overseas tours...

along with dhoni, he is the most overrated player in team..

best player in team is an explosive bowling all-rounder who picks up wickets regularly..

will be thrown out from team  like a used condom after overseas tours...lol

DO you have any statistics to prove your theory??

Did you know that he scored a century, against Australia A team, in Australia, in a seamer friendly pitch, with a strike rate close to 80, in a test match...

One match will not tell the story. But even before giving a chance he shouldn't be ruled out....When rohit gets N number of matches from last 5 to 10 years, Pandya should atleast get one full series outside india...

I think he perfectly fits the bill of fifth bowler and to certain extent as a batsmen...

Already Kohli considers him as next big thing in world cricket......

More than his technique, i like his attitude....he is a big match player and already proved that in CT...if not for that run out, he could have brought the game closer....real champion cricketer....

Always remember, cricket is about personality and attitude and he has plenty of that ....he is a fighter and breveheart...love him

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He will come good and we need him for our overseas however, what we don't need is, opprobrious fans like you who use invective laden language to describe a national player and making the place a cesspool in process. While eclectic discussion is fine but catechise is not and we reserve the right to oppugn the credibility of your argument. 

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1 hour ago, putrevus said:

I know these matches are being played in India but I would expect an allrounder to be bowling more than one over in T20s.If this is his level of bowling then India will have huge problem in tests.

 

We had 5 specialist bowlers in this match

 

6th bowler was not needed ... but still he was given 1 over and took the crucial wicket of Williamson.

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11 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

We had 5 specialist bowlers in this match

 

6th bowler was not needed ... but still he was given 1 over and took the crucial wicket of Williamson.

That is my point, he is being used a extra bowler.Even Ganguly used bowl medium pace and he actually took 5fers in odis and opened bowling in India in tests.

 

How you rate his bowling versus Ganguly.

 

I wish Pandya nothing but the best but what concerns me is his captain if he has options will not use him. In odis and t20s its will work but in tests it will be tough.

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1 hour ago, putrevus said:

That is my point, he is being used a extra bowler.Even Ganguly used bowl medium pace and he actually took 5fers in odis and opened bowling in India in tests.

 

How you rate his bowling versus Ganguly.

 

I wish Pandya nothing but the best but what concerns me is his captain if he has options will not use him. In odis and t20s its will work but in tests it will be tough.

 

In tests, Pandya will play as the batting all-rounder and 5th bowler, whose role is to send down 10 or 12 steady overs a day while the main bowlers rejuvenate themselves.

 

Ganguly was 15 to 20 k slower and did not have the ability to hit the deck hard. Did well only when the ball swung. 

Edited by express bowling

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2 hours ago, putrevus said:

That is my point, he is being used a extra bowler.Even Ganguly used bowl medium pace and he actually took 5fers in odis and opened bowling in India in tests.

 

How you rate his bowling versus Ganguly.

 

I wish Pandya nothing but the best but what concerns me is his captain if he has options will not use him. In odis and t20s its will work but in tests it will be tough.

If you are playing in spin-friendly conditions, and already have 3 front-line pacers in a T20 game, its logical not to over-bowl Pandya.   If he's not usable as a bowler in white ball cricket in Aus/SA/Eng, then we may have a problem. 

 

But his bowling in the CT and his spells against Australia in the home ODI series show enough bowling ability that I don't think we are going to have that problem.  

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3 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

In tests, Pandya will play as the batting all-rounder and 5th bowler, whose role is to send down 10 or 12 steady overs a day while the main bowlers rejuvenate themselves.

 

Ganguly was 15 to 20 k slower and did not have the ability to hit the deck hard. Did well only when the ball swung. 

It doesn't matter what kind of bowler you are as long as you are picking up wickets, this notion that Pandya will turn it on when lights will be turned on is a folly.I have a not seen anything in his bowling to suggest he will be a good and consistent bowler.

 

As a leading all rounder even Kallis used to bowl majority of his overs even when playing in India, forget outside India. Kallis is light years ahead of Pandya as a batsman.This was just T20 , so it is fine but I really have doubts on this guy's bowling.One thing going for him though is his uncanny knack of taking wickets with innocuous balls.

 

What kind of runs he needs to justify his place as a batting allrounder in tests. in your view.

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England were not short sighted with stokes and preserved with home . India will do the same with pandya . Rightly so 

 

theme on icf . Mob calls for young players . When they play after a few games say not good enough and should be dumped . Then  mob calls for next new player and cycle continues 

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14 hours ago, putrevus said:

One thing going for him though is his uncanny knack of taking wickets with innocuous balls

Irfan was a master of that.  I really don't want Pandya to go the Pathan route - i.e. underachieve with respect to his potential.  

 

Agree that he has a lot more to show and lot more to develop as a bowler.  But the critical thing is that we don't really need him to be Kallis-level with his bowling.   If we project optimistically a bit, and if he can hold down the #6 spot with the bat, and contribute 10-12 tight overs with an odd wicket, that is a very important difference maker for our team.  Taking that extra load off of the front line seamers will mean that they can be at max effectiveness.  These little things matter a lot in test cricket.   

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14 hours ago, King Tendulkar said:

England were not short sighted with stokes and preserved with home . India will do the same with pandya . Rightly so 

 

theme on icf . Mob calls for young players . When they play after a few games say not good enough and should be dumped . Then  mob calls for next new player and cycle continues 

Fanbois have an insatiable love for the next fashionable name.  Right now its Krunal Pandya.  Apparently he's already been designated as a can't miss prospect for #6 in ODIs.  Banjo all the guy has done is have one decent IPL season.  And is more injury prone than KL Rahul.

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The problem is right now that in a tour like South Africa, where we have struggled traditionally because we just didn’t have that extra good supporting act with the ball or that extra cushion of a specialist bat at say 6 or even 7 is it wise to go with Pandya?

 

This is nothing against Pandya on how he has performed so far but I believe he has still not evolved enough in one particular  aspect of the game. 

 

May be the Srilankan series will be a good opportunity to give him more responsibilities.

 

The challenge here is not managing Pandya but helping him evolve the right way.

 

 

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1 minute ago, maniac said:

The problem is right now that in a tour like South Africa, where we have struggled traditionally because we just didn’t have that extra good supporting act with the ball or that extra cushion of a specialist bat at say 6 or even 7 is it wise to go with Pandya?

 

This is nothing against Pandya on how he has performed so far but I believe he has still not evolved enough in one particular  aspect of the game. 

 

May be the Srilankan series will be a good opportunity to give him more responsibilities.

 

The challenge here is not managing Pandya but helping him evolve the right way.

 

 

Only one thing will help him evolve . Play him 

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21 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Irfan was a master of that.  I really don't want Pandya to go the Pathan route - i.e. underachieve with respect to his potential.  

 

Agree that he has a lot more to show and lot more to develop as a bowler.  But the critical thing is that we don't really need him to be Kallis-level with his bowling.   If we project optimistically a bit, and if he can hold down the #6 spot with the bat, and contribute 10-12 tight overs with an odd wicket, that is a very important difference maker for our team.  Taking that extra load off of the front line seamers will mean that they can be at max effectiveness.  These little things matter a lot in test cricket.   

If he can hold with bat on his own at no6 then all his bowling will be bonus, but do you seriously think he is class of VVS or Ganguly as a batsman. If answer is no he need work very hard to become better bowler.

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Sorry I don't believe test cricket that too playing away from home where everyone's role is so vital in improving the dismal overseas record is place to let player grow.

 

That is why I am so disappointed in Kohli not giving him 10 overs and 4 overs regularly. At home they have to experiment and let these guys grow.Pandya also needs to make sure he improves his bowling so much that captain will throw ball to him.

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49 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Fanbois have an insatiable love for the next fashionable name.  Right now its Krunal Pandya.  Apparently he's already been designated as a can't miss prospect for #6 in ODIs.  Banjo all the guy has done is have one decent IPL season.  And is more injury prone than KL Rahul.

No one wants Krunal Pandya in the test team but the reason names like Krunal Pandya or even recently Gowtham pop up because we are all in clear agreement that Axar Patel is useless and we need alternatives.

 

As I have pointed out before there are 6-7 slots in our T20 line up that are easily replacable with a new face.

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5 minutes ago, putrevus said:

If he can hold with bat on his own at no6 then all his bowling will be bonus, but do you seriously think he is class of VVS or Ganguly as a batsman. If answer is no he need work very hard to become better bowler.

He should be working hard on both aspects of his game.   Its way too early to know at what point is he going to "level off" in terms of performances - with the bat and the ball.  Look at the way he can drive the ball through the covers, and straight down the ground - there's enough of batting ability to build a decent test career.  But then there's that massive backlift which just looks immensely shaky.   Bottomline is that its just too early to decide. 

 

And given the fact that the Indian lower order is slowly getting stronger, he may not need to hit the heights of Ganguly or Laxman with the bat either.  This Indian team is getting strong enough and deep enough, to gamble on playing him as the #6 bat, given that we would have potentially Ashwin, Saha and Bhuvi/Jadeja to follow him in the lineup.   

 

Ideally he would have had a bit more "seasoning" before throwing him into the deep end of a SA tour, but you have to work with the schedule you have.   Let's see how it goes.  

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5 minutes ago, maniac said:

No one wants Krunal Pandya in the test team but the reason names like Krunal Pandya or even recently Gowtham pop up because we are all in clear agreement that Axar Patel is useless and we need alternatives.

 

As I have pointed out before there are 6-7 slots in our T20 line up that are easily replacable with a new face.

Of course there are slots that need new faces.   But I would say that Krunal Pandya needs to do more before he earns national selection, especially in ODI cricket.  

 

I'm actually more worried about kids like Siraj - there's so much hype about him, and if he has a couple of bad games early on, the same fanbois will treat him just like they treat Jaydev Unadkat.  

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9 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Sorry I don't believe test cricket that too playing away from home where everyone's role is so vital in improving the dismal overseas record is place to let player grow.

 

That is why I am so disappointed in Kohli not giving him 10 overs and 4 overs regularly. At home they have to experiment and let these guys grow.Pandya also needs to make sure he improves his bowling so much that captain will throw ball to him.

2 extra overs in a T20 at the Kotla aren't going to matter much in his development as a test cricketer though.   They did give him an extended run as a new ball bowler in ODIs, and clearly the Bhuvi-Bumrah combo is a way better option.  Remember that Bumrah hardly bowled with the new ball until recently, he used to come in 1st change....

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17 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Of course there are slots that need new faces.   But I would say that Krunal Pandya needs to do more before he earns national selection, especially in ODI cricket.  

 

I'm actually more worried about kids like Siraj - there's so much hype about him, and if he has a couple of bad games early on, the same fanbois will treat him just like they treat Jaydev Unadkat.  

So who are the alternatives then?

 

You are showing so much support for Hardik who himself was thrust into internationals when he was still raw and not a huge body of work behind him and is still not probably still not completely seasoned but worried about Likes of Siraj and Krunal?

 

When there is a slot available names pop

up..simple.

 

again I am not being confrontational just trying to understand your perspective.

 

Unadkut flopped because he just didn’t have it from the start..someone like Zaheer made it because he clearly had it even though he was raw when he started as well but he evolved in to what he became but always had it.

 

People want Siraj or any other young names you hear on ICF as a back up because we have Bumrah and Bhuvi with shami and Umesh now being considered test specialists .

 

I don’t believe anyone has made over the top statements to replace Kohli or for the matter of fact that much ridiculed Rohit Sharma.

Edited by maniac

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1 hour ago, wanted_desi said:

I want him to bowl a lot more in test matches, once he becomes someone who can give you 10-15 overs and pick a wicket or so in that, he will learn a lot about bowling in ODI. 

 

He is India's Major card for World Cup. O

I remember posting last year, that Chahal and Hardik Pandya have to be established ODI players, for India to have a decent shot at winning the World Cup.  Good to see, pretty much, the best case scenario coming off with both those cases.

 

@Pollack  Wonder why kuptaan Cheeku is preferring Chahal to Kuldeep these days! :p:

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3 minutes ago, Imtiaz said:

Acha sorry he is the second coming of kallis, the next saviour of india. I shouldnt leave you heartbroken as all hopes are pinned on the fact that finally he might be the man who will save you from embarrassments on one foreign tour.

Gotta love the shamelesses of the greenbros.  Can't even manage to draw a test in Australia in the current millenium, get bowled out for 50 runs twice in home conditions by them, but out here talking trash about the #1 test team.  

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1 hour ago, maniac said:

So who are the alternatives then?

 

You are showing so much support for Hardik who himself was thrust into internationals when he was still raw and not a huge body of work behind him and is still not probably still not completely seasoned but worried about Likes of Siraj and Krunal?

 

When there is a slot available names pop

up..simple.

 

again I am not being confrontational just trying to understand your perspective.

 

Krunal needs to do well in at least one FC season, have some meaningful List A performances, before he can be considered for the ODI team.   His skill-set simply isn't one that warrants a quick debut, unlike his brother - who is a rare pace bowling allrounder prospect.   And even Hardik, first made his way into T20, proved his potential, before getting an ODI cap.  In fact, he was overlooked for the ODI team, when BCCI sent a ODI team to Zimbabwe tour, which was basically an A team.  The one where Faiz Fazal opened the batting for us.  This is when I made the "legendary" thread pointing out that Pandya is a valuable prospect, and arguably a better ODI bowler than Stokes, and should not have been overlooked.   Kicking off our clash, that still blows hot and cold to this day:p:

 

And Krunal is more a Kedar Jadhav than an Axar - he's a batsman first, bowler 2nd.   

 

This is not to say that I'm anti-Krunal.   He may yet prove to be a viable prospect for us.  But its still TBD.   And my 'perspective', since you asked for it, is that he's not a "sure thing" at this point, as a section of posters here like to believe and claim.

 

 

Edited by sandeep

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4 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Krunal needs to do well in at least one FC season, have some meaningful List A performances, before he can be considered for the ODI team.   His skill-set simply isn't one that warrants a quick debut, unlike his brother - who is a rare pace bowling allrounder prospect.   And even Hardik, first made his way into T20, proved his potential, before getting an ODI cap.  In fact, he was overlooked for the ODI team, when BCCI sent a ODI team to Zimbabwe tour, which was basically an A team.  The one where Faiz Fazal opened the batting for us.  This is when I made the "legendary" thread pointing out that Pandya is a valuable prospect, and arguably a better ODI bowler than Stokes, and should not have been overlooked.   Kicking off our clash, that still blows hot and cold to this day:p:

 

And Krunal is more a Kedar Jadhav than an Axar - he's a batsman first, bowler 2nd.   

 

This is not to say that I'm anti-Krunal.   He may yet prove to be a viable prospect for us.  But its still TBD.   And my 'perspective', since you asked for it, is that he's not a "sure thing" at this point, as a section of posters here like to believe and claim.

 

 

Oh bhai why are you making my post exclusively about Krunal? If you think Krunal is not ready then fair enough.

 

You have quoted above and even before  sarcastically how people on ICF like to throw  in names of fresh faces or flavor of the month just for the heck of it.

 

The point being addressed here is names like Krunal or Siraj or even Pant popup because those slots for the specific skills they bring in like a spin allrounder,fast bowler or keeper-bat are available currently.

 

Read the below  very carefully now

 

Do you think there is a scope ,or are you in favor rather for a few fresh faces to be introduced  in the side over the period of next few months?

 

If yes. It contradicts with your statement but still I will give it a pass because agreement puts us on the same page.

2 hours ago, sandeep said:

Fanbois have an insatiable love for the next fashionable name. 

So next question is are you having an issue with some specific players like “Pant” “Siraj” “K.Pandya” etc because you think they are not ready for the big leagues and there are better alternatives available?

 

If that is the case please go ahead and quote these names because as someone like me who doesn’t follow enough domestics these days apart from IPL ,I would love to follow the development and progress of the careers of a young talent  like I did with Pant last season or with Shaw and Washington Sundar currently.

 

I was excited to watch the  likes  of Vijay Shankar,Siraj,Sangwan,Kaul,Thampi,Natarajan,Nathu,Avesh etc last IPL because those names were mentioned on this forum often.

 

These names usually come from posters on here who actively follow domestics and have interest in specific skills.

 

and given how there are a lot of flaws with our Team especially in Odi and T20 lot of names get discussed.

 

 

 

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On 11/2/2017 at 1:27 AM, express bowling said:

 

In tests, Pandya will play as the batting all-rounder and 5th bowler, whose role is to send down 10 or 12 steady overs a day while the main bowlers rejuvenate themselves.

 

Ganguly was 15 to 20 k slower and did not have the ability to hit the deck hard. Did well only when the ball swung. 

he is trundling at 120-125 nowadays

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10 hours ago, sandeep said:


@Pollack  Wonder why kuptaan Cheeku is preferring Chahal to Kuldeep these days! :p:

Cheeku is an idiot. He also selects dhoni in T20I and carthick in ODIs. For him Rahane is a floater. Rahul is not good enough to be in team. :laugh: 

 I stand by my point : Kuldeep better than Chahal. But I have always said I have no problems with Chahal playing. Both of them playing and getting chances regularly would be awesome.

 

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7 hours ago, LORD_analyst said:

he is trundling at 120-125 nowadays

 

I was going through Pandya's speed on BCCI.tv

 

From NZ ODI series 2016 to the 4th ODI against Australia 2017, he has bowled a fastest of 141 k to 146 k .... with lots of 135 k deliveries ....  in almost all matches ( barring the WI LOI series after CT when everyone was holidaying ).

 

From the 5th ODI vs Australia 2017, the T20 series against them and the ongoing  NZ series .... he is suddenly bowling 7 k to 10 k slower 

 

I wonder whether he has picked up a niggle or is overworked as he is playing all 3 formats without a break, that too, both batting and bowling 

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1 hour ago, King Tendulkar said:

see that last catch he did last game . amazing , all action cricketer . Every dept X factor 

 

you guys marvel at stokes . You have one yet want to pick holes in him

I like Hardik Pandya in the 11, but let's not do this Stokes comparison yet. Stokes is proven at a different level and consistency.

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