Sachin Tendulkar v Virat Kohli - who is better ODI batsman?

[mishra]

34 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Viv averaged more than Sachin with better SR in era without any field restrictions. Bevan played in Sachin's Era and avg 53. Sachin fans think somehow Sachin alone played greatest bowling attacks and was dominating everyone everywhere. It took 2008 for Sachin to score away hundred against best team in his playing days by then Mcgrath and Warne were done playing.

 

 

I think, after wundies it was Pakistan and then aussies at third place when it came to bowling attack. I am just guessing but his record against both wouldnt be great to brag about as he was Kohliesqye type player , and quality pacers wold get him in no mans land.

As i said, you have to have ability to hit the ball on rise, else a front foot may lead you in no mans land.

Dravid type would survive, but Kohli or Viv wont.

[putrevus]

1 minute ago, mishra said:

I think, after wundies it was Pakistan and then aussies at third place when it came to bowling attack. I am just guessing but his record against both wouldnt be great to brag about as he was Kohliesqye type player , and quality pacers wold get him in no mans land.

As i said, you have to have ability to hit the ball on rise, else a front foot may lead you in no mans land.

Dravid type would survive, but Kohli or Viv wont.

What are you talking about????

[mishra]

8 minutes ago, putrevus said:

What are you talking about????

Making a guess based on technique of batting. I didnt see Sir Viv too much.I cant run statsguru on mobile phone. So thought, if u have access to statsguru, You can chk stats

[rtmohanlal]

7 hours ago, putrevus said:

Viv averaged more than Sachin with better SR in era without any field restrictions. Bevan played in Sachin's Era and avg 53. Sachin fans think somehow Sachin alone played greatest bowling attacks and was dominating everyone everywhere. It took 2008 for Sachin to score away hundred against best team in his playing days by then Mcgrath and Warne were done playing.

 

 

just can't understand what your real intention is...  the topic is w.r.t Sachin vs Kohli ... Now you brings in Viv & Bevan, stereotypes those who put forward   the reasons to defend Sachin as 'fans', then making your own fancy story  that   'Sachin fans think somehow Sachin alone played greatest bowling attacks and was dominating everyone everywhere'. And after that  telling a  mere fact that 'It took 2008 for Sachin to score away hundred against best team in his playing days by then Mcgrath and Warne were done playing' which does  not  have any thing with 'Kohli vs Sachin'. Again wondering what are you up to!!!!!!!!

 

[Bigg Brother]

8 hours ago, putrevus said:

Viv averaged more than Sachin with better SR in era without any field restrictions. Bevan played in Sachin's Era and avg 53. Sachin fans think somehow Sachin alone played greatest bowling attacks and was dominating everyone everywhere. It took 2008 for Sachin to score away hundred against best team in his playing days by then Mcgrath and Warne were done playing.

 

 

Man I am really not into this comparison talks but going by your logics,Even Kohli doesn't have ODI century against Johnson,Starc,Hazelwood,Cummins in Australia in ODIs..He bashed Boland,Paris in 2016.And same way He doesn't have century against Steyn in SA in ODIs.He bashed Phehulkwayo,Ngidi this year in ODIs.

[putrevus]

Man I am really not into this comparison talks but going by your logics,Even Kohli doesn't have ODI century against Johnson,Starc,Hazelwood,Cummins in Australia in ODIs..He bashed Boland,Paris in 2016.And same way He doesn't have century against Steyn in SA in ODIs.He bashed Phehulkwayo,Ngidi this year in ODIs.

It is not just about particular bowlers.

Sachin toured Australia 92 , 99, 2003 before finally scoring 100 in 2008. It took 2009 for him to score 100 in NZ.

How many tours it took Kohli to score 100s away in each country.


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[express bowling]

15 hours ago, mishra said:

I think, after wundies it was Pakistan and then aussies at third place when it came to bowling attack. I am just guessing but his record against both wouldnt be great to brag about as he was Kohliesqye type player , and quality pacers wold get him in no mans land.

As i said, you have to have ability to hit the ball on rise, else a front foot may lead you in no mans land.

Dravid type would survive, but Kohli or Viv wont.

 

Viv Richards was known for his ability to play genuine pace with ease. Handled Lillee and Thomson with aplomb in Australia.

 

And Kohli has scored loads of runs in test matches in both South Africa and Australia against Steyn, Morkel, Rabada, Johnson, Harris, Hazlewood. 

 

Playing genuine pace and bounce against quality quicks was / is both their forte.

Edited October 29, 2018 by express bowling

[Zero_Unit]

On 10/25/2018 at 9:51 AM, mishra said:

Bhai, Just few days back, Rohit won Asia cup with ease. Kohli is struggling in home conditions against a team like Windies

Ease? Bro what Asia Cup final were you watching than the rest of us?

[goose]

You guys first need to debate the definition of better? Do you mean better as in use a time machine to put both players side by side or do you mean better in terms of who most outshone peers? Most disagreements boil down to this.

[mishra]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Viv Richards was known for his ability to play genuine pace with ease. Handled Lillee and Thomson with aplomb in Australia.

 

And Kohli has scored loads of runs in test matches in both South Africa and Australia against Steyn, Morkel, Rabada, Johnson, Harris, Hazlewood. 

 

Playing genuine pace and bounce against quality quicks was / is both their forte.

My comment was based on style. If you need a good S/R (specially in odi), You have to go on front foot.

Sir Viv did not have to face his own teams bowling lineup, which was best in time. He had to compete with second best  then third best.

 

Offcourse. In my mind, Kohli is closest to Sir Viv in allmost all aspects. In fact, not just style and swagger, they both have support of one of the best openers of that era. i.e. Just like nomber 3. Number 1 and 2 are big bigg beast. Which does helps. So most likely they both are very comparable when it comes to batting in odis.

Now I went to statsguru and verified.it.

GroupingAscending     Span     Mat     Runs     HS     Bat Av     100     Wkts     BBI     Bowl Av     5     Ct     St     Ave Diff     
v Australia     1975-1991     54     2187     153*     50.86     3     32     3/29     41.53     0     20     0     9.32     view innings
v Pakistan     1975-1989     41     1079     83     30.82     0     20     3/52     50.10     0     27     0     -19.27     view innings

 

So seems like Sir Viv has scored heavily against top notch attacks. There is no reason our top 3 wont make merry in that era, However, Our 3 combo would have to face not just Pakistan and Australia, but Windies too which could have further dented our top 3 average

 

[Austin 3:!6]

Without any bias or prejudice, Sachin was simply a better batsman. He faced much better bowlers, played on more bowling friendly wickets when there used to be proper red ball ODI cricket, with bigger boundaries etc. If Sachin made his debut in modern era, I have no doubt he would be avging 60+ in ODIs. I mean, in an era where Rayudu avgs 45+ shows how the modern game has changed for betterment of batsmen. In reality likes of Rayudu would be avging in early 30s had he played in 1990s.

 

When Sachin made his debut, he faced likes of Wasim, Waqar, McDermott, Ambrose, old Marshall, old Imran, Abdul Qadir etc. Even as a teenager he was playing them with relative ease in uncovered pitches. If I recall, Kohli had no clue against Chaminda Vaas in 2008 when he made his debut.

 

Even the 2nd tier bowlers in 90s like Pollock, Bishop, McMillan, Cork, Gillespie, Mohammed Zahid, Mervyn Dillon, Fannie Devilliers etc. are better than most bowlers in modern era.

 

Just compare the teams of then vs now.

 

Zimbabwe team of 90s would be in top 3 ODI unit had they played in modern era.

 

WI, though weaker than 80s but was still an amazing team with superb bowling attack. Compare it with WI attack now.

 

Australia was ATG team in 2000s with bowlers like McGrath, Lee, Gillespie etc. and now they likes of Stoinis/Richardson leading ODI bowling attack.

 

Pak had ATG bowlers like Akhtar, Ws, Saqi etc but look where they are now. Runman Raees and Usman Shinwari

 

All the teams in 90s-00s were way ahead than anything modern cricket has to offer.

 

I know Kohli has better stats and he is a fantastic batsman but people sometimes forget what a beast Sachin actually was. Playing for 25 years against bowlers of such caliber on uncovered pitches and yet achieve the records he did was remarkable.

 

Both are superb players but Sachin is ahead for me purely as a batsman.

 

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[putrevus]

Without any bias or prejudice, Sachin was simply a better batsman. He faced much better bowlers, played on more bowling friendly wickets when there used to be proper red ball ODI cricket, with bigger boundaries etc. If Sachin made his debut in modern era, I have no doubt he would be avging 60+ in ODIs. I mean, in an era where Rayudu avgs 45+ shows how the modern game has changed for betterment of batsmen. In reality likes of Rayudu would be avging in early 30s had he played in 1990s.
 
When Sachin made his debut, he faced likes of Wasim, Waqar, McDermott, Ambrose, old Marshall, old Imran, Abdul Qadir etc. Even as a teenager he was playing them with relative ease in uncovered pitches. If I recall, Kohli had no clue against Chaminda Vaas in 2008 when he made his debut.
 
Even the 2nd tier bowlers in 90s like Pollock, Bishop, McMillan, Cork, Gillespie, Mohammed Zahid, Mervyn Dillon, Fannie Devilliers etc. are better than most bowlers in modern era.
 
Just compare the teams of then vs now.
 
Zimbabwe team of 90s would be in top 3 ODI unit had they played in modern era.
 
WI, though weaker than 80s but was still an amazing team with superb bowling attack. Compare it with WI attack now.
 
Australia was ATG team in 2000s with bowlers like McGrath, Lee, Gillespie etc. and now they likes of Stoinis/Richardson leading ODI bowling attack.
 
Pak had ATG bowlers like Akhtar, Ws, Saqi etc but look where they are now. Runman Raees and Usman Shinwari
 
All the teams in 90s-00s were way ahead than anything modern cricket has to offer.
 
I know Kohli has better stats and he is a fantastic batsman but people sometimes forget what a beast Sachin actually was. Playing for 25 years against bowlers of such caliber on uncovered pitches and yet achieve the records he did was remarkable.
 
Both are superb players but Sachin is ahead for me purely as a batsman.
 
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What are you talking about when did Sachin play on uncovered pitches.


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[rkt.india]

9 hours ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

Without any bias or prejudice, Sachin was simply a better batsman. He faced much better bowlers, played on more bowling friendly wickets when there used to be proper red ball ODI cricket, with bigger boundaries etc. If Sachin made his debut in modern era, I have no doubt he would be avging 60+ in ODIs. I mean, in an era where Rayudu avgs 45+ shows how the modern game has changed for betterment of batsmen. In reality likes of Rayudu would be avging in early 30s had he played in 1990s.

 

When Sachin made his debut, he faced likes of Wasim, Waqar, McDermott, Ambrose, old Marshall, old Imran, Abdul Qadir etc. Even as a teenager he was playing them with relative ease in uncovered pitches. If I recall, Kohli had no clue against Chaminda Vaas in 2008 when he made his debut.

 

Even the 2nd tier bowlers in 90s like Pollock, Bishop, McMillan, Cork, Gillespie, Mohammed Zahid, Mervyn Dillon, Fannie Devilliers etc. are better than most bowlers in modern era.

 

Just compare the teams of then vs now.

 

Zimbabwe team of 90s would be in top 3 ODI unit had they played in modern era.

 

WI, though weaker than 80s but was still an amazing team with superb bowling attack. Compare it with WI attack now.

 

Australia was ATG team in 2000s with bowlers like McGrath, Lee, Gillespie etc. and now they likes of Stoinis/Richardson leading ODI bowling attack.

 

Pak had ATG bowlers like Akhtar, Ws, Saqi etc but look where they are now. Runman Raees and Usman Shinwari

 

All the teams in 90s-00s were way ahead than anything modern cricket has to offer.

 

I know Kohli has better stats and he is a fantastic batsman but people sometimes forget what a beast Sachin actually was. Playing for 25 years against bowlers of such caliber on uncovered pitches and yet achieve the records he did was remarkable.

 

Both are superb players but Sachin is ahead for me purely as a batsman.

 

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how many games did Tendulkar played against peak Akram and Waqar?

[Global.Baba]

9 hours ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

 

Even the 2nd tier bowlers in 90s like Pollock, Bishop, McMillan, Cork, Gillespie, Mohammed Zahid, Mervyn Dillon, Fannie Devilliers etc. are better than most bowlers in modern era.

 

 

Excellent post but did you just put Shaun Pollock and even Jason Gillespie in the same bracket as Md.Zahid and Mervyn Dillon  

 

You just let Pakistanis win over you 

[Muloghonto]

11 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

how many games did Tendulkar played against peak Akram and Waqar?

Um, playing on the seamer's dream wickets in Canada, where even Ganguly was a terror, definitely counts as playing against a version of Akram more potent than any bowler Kohli has ever faced with similar circumstances.

Green wicket, uneven wicket - even i would've fancied myself as a pace bowler on that wicket against international batsmen.

 

 

Edited October 30, 2018 by Muloghonto

[SK_IH]

Without any bias or prejudice, Kohli is better than Sachin.

Edited October 30, 2018 by SK_IH

[rkt.india]

4 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Um, playing on the seamer's dream wickets in Canada, where even Ganguly was a terror, definitely counts as playing against a version of Akram more potent than any bowler Kohli has ever faced with similar circumstances.

Green wicket, uneven wicket - even i would've fancied myself as a pace bowler on that wicket against international batsmen.

 

 

And Tendulkar failed 4 out of 5 games in 1996. Those were than bad a pitches still. teams did score 250 plus runs. 

 

here are the scorercards.

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/16156/scorecard/66030/india-vs-pakistan-1st-odi-pakistan-tour-of-canada-1996

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/16156/scorecard/66031/india-vs-pakistan-2nd-odi-pakistan-tour-of-canada-1996

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/16156/scorecard/66032/india-vs-pakistan-3rd-odi-pakistan-tour-of-canada-1996

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/16156/scorecard/66033/india-vs-pakistan-4th-odi-pakistan-tour-of-canada-1996

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/16156/scorecard/66034/india-vs-pakistan-5th-odi-pakistan-tour-of-canada-1996

 

and I remember 20 year old Kohli scoring 2 50s in 2010 SA tour in ODIs and those SA pitches were probably the most helpful pitches for fast bowlers and Steyn and Morkel were also playing who are probably two of the best fast bowlers on those pitches. 

 

 

[Muloghonto]

22 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

And Tendulkar failed 4 out of 5 games in 1996. Those were than bad a pitches still. teams did score 250 plus runs. 

 

here are the scorercards.

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/16156/scorecard/66030/india-vs-pakistan-1st-odi-pakistan-tour-of-canada-1996

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/16156/scorecard/66031/india-vs-pakistan-2nd-odi-pakistan-tour-of-canada-1996

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/16156/scorecard/66032/india-vs-pakistan-3rd-odi-pakistan-tour-of-canada-1996

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/16156/scorecard/66033/india-vs-pakistan-4th-odi-pakistan-tour-of-canada-1996

 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/16156/scorecard/66034/india-vs-pakistan-5th-odi-pakistan-tour-of-canada-1996

 

and I remember 20 year old Kohli scoring 2 50s in 2010 SA tour in ODIs and those SA pitches were probably the most helpful pitches for fast bowlers and Steyn and Morkel were also playing who are probably two of the best fast bowlers on those pitches. 

 

 

I went to those matches. If you scored 25 in 50 balls against Ganguly, that was a success. Nevermind Akram. 

Kohli has never batted on pitches that hard to bat on against a bowler of that callibre, period.

 

[Muloghonto]

oh and the second series in 97 saw way worse pitches too.

 

[rkt.india]

38 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

I went to those matches. If you scored 25 in 50 balls against Ganguly, that was a success. Nevermind Akram. 

Kohli has never batted on pitches that hard to bat on against a bowler of that callibre, period.

 

so how did teams score 250 plus runs if those pitches were so bad?  2010 SA ODI pitches were as worse if not more.

 

In 1997, neither Wasim Akram nor Waqar played.  Ganugly scored 75 in one game, Jadeja scored 49, Azhar 52.  Tendulkar's scores were first game 17, second game 25* batted at 4, third game 0 batting at 4; azhar scored 67 in this game, fourth game 6 opened; Ganguly scored 75 in the same game, 51 in the 5th game which looked the best pitch of the series and Ganguly also scored 96 and Pakistan chased that target of 251 down easily in 48 overs where Afridi and Ijaz opening the batting thrashed us badly 39 of 30 and 60 of 42 respectively.

Edited October 30, 2018 by rkt.india