Arguments from the Veg friends against Meat Eating and the realities of the Nature

[zen]

1 hour ago, Alam_dar said:

"Perfect Solution" is only a dream, when the "Mother Nature" itself does not want such a solution for the universe and it made "carnivore animals" who would die without giving pain and eating the "herbivore animals". Do you think Mother Nature was "unjustified" where it made so much easy for the herbivores to live by eating grass which is every where, but making life of carnivores so much difficult that they have first to hunt in order to get their food?

 

So, the aim is not the "Perfect Solution", but the "Best Solution", as mother nature has programmed for us. I personally feel that this is the best for the "humanity" to follow the mother nature. 

 

You are correct about the Meat eaters dying earlier than the Vegetarians. 

Nevertheless, all these figures about the "meat eaters" is about the "cooked meat", which is totally different than "raw paleo meat eating" and they could never be compared. 

 

As I stated above, meat becomes more poisonous by cooking, while one has to cook it for much longer time than the vegetables. 

While the raw meat (especially organs) are the "most healing" things in this planet earth. 

I know this is a very big statement, but this is 100% true and I stand upon it in order to help the Humanity. 

 

If any one is chronically sick, and nothing is helping, then I ask them to try at least once the raw paleo diet and they will get rid of pain and disease.

 

 Truth is truth and it should not be looked as left or right or middle. 

Your intentions are noble to not to give pain to the animals. 

But mind it please that not only you will be suffering with pain in your life, but you will pass these deficiencies & pain to your children in heritage. For example, if Parents have vitamin D deficiency, then they will pass it to the new born babies, who will have weak bones and suffer pain in life. This has become a major problem in European Countries where parents have vitamin D deficiency due to less sun shine and people staying mostly at home and travelling in cars. They pass this same deficiency to their new born children. 

 

 

Bro, you are making too many assumptions including assuming that all living beings are expected to have similar modus operandi to acquire food .... Also note that man can farm, other being cannot to that extent. That is one of the differentiating factor. Therefore a lion hunting for its food is not a parallel 

 

You need to realize that you cannot kill something just for your benefits. Tomorrow, you would say eating humans will benefit humans but that is again an out of scope argument 

 

 

 

 

 

[zen]

1 hour ago, Singh bling said:

Those are BS studies only done in west , Most vegans in west are quite health concious people while typical non veg of west is quite junkie.Also per capita meat consumption in west is around 100 kg which too high

 

I would like to invite researchers in India to study Jains and muslims, christians as Jains are pure veg while the other two communities are most non veg and then they should present their results.

 

Also read about Mongols who were one of most non veg but not very developed.They still mostly eat meat and milk products and many believe that vegetables are taboo because they grow on ****.Still average age of Mongolians were found to be around 68 which is pretty good for their development standard

 

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Census-data-show-Jains-outlive-others/articleshow/50842275.cms 

 

Jains outlive others in Ind

 

 

Quote

The Jain lifestyle has even caught the attention of Societe de Formation Therapeutique du Generaliste (SFTG) (Society of Therapeutic Education of General Practitioners) in Paris, France, and Institut universitaire de medecine de famille (Institute of Family Medicine), in Lausanne, Switzerland. A team of 20 doctors from the institutes visited the state recently and interacted with Jain monks and experts to learn about Jain diet, way of life and concept of health.

 

[Alam_dar]

13 minutes ago, zen said:

Bro, you are making too many assumptions including assuming that all living beings are expected to have similar modus operandi to acquire food .... Also note that man can farm, other being cannot to that extent. That is one of the differentiating factor. Therefore a lion hunting for its food is not a parallel 

I am afraid that "natural diet" is a reality. 

 

For example, domesticated dogs are even fed with bread and all other things with human eat. Result is this that domesticated dogs are also getting the same diseases like Human Beings (cancer, osteoporoses, heart diseases, allergies, teeth problems etc.) 

 

You will not find the wild animals ever suffering from these kinds of cancers and osteoporoses, allergies  etc. 

 

Why?

 

The difference is only the "diet". 

 

Now the Western world is understanding the importance of this and you will hear a term "BARF" in the western world, which means they preach to give dogs only the "RAW Meat and Organs and Bones" which they could find in the wild life, in order to avoid all these diseases. Please read about Barf here. 

 

Similarly, if we want to avoid these diseases in the Humans, then we have to return to the mother nature. The most disease causing food is "Grains and Lentils". Bread and Rice are not optimal for human health is it causes a lot of diseases which we see today. 

 

On raw paleo diet, one even does not need to brust his teeth for weeks or even months and there is absolutely no smell or other tooth diseases. Similarly, one does not need to take bath for weeks or months and body does not smells (same as Chimpanzees or Gorillas or monkey or other animals who live in wild life and never brush teeth or take shower, but still they have beautiful teeth and no body smell). 

 

I don't ask you to believe me. What I ask is only this to be "open minded" and to read and to experience the things yourself.

 

Modified diet has brought a lot of pain for the mankind in form of modern diseases.

But there is way to get rid of this pain and save the humankind from it. 

 

 

[Singh bling]

40 minutes ago, zen said:

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Census-data-show-Jains-outlive-others/articleshow/50842275.cms 

 

Jains outlive others in Ind

 

 

 

This is from Indian census and not any study about Veg and non Veg. There is another community that outlive Jains guess who?

Quote

The Art of Longevity

My father is 89 and he's in reasonably good health," says Dr Villoo Morawala Patell, founder and chairperson of the biotechnology company, Avesthagen, in Bangalore. Her father is among an increasing population of Parsis that seem to live long and well. World development indicators released by the World Bank and UNICEF indicate that the average life span of Indians is 66 while that of a Parsi is 75 plus.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/reasons-why-parsis-live-longer-than-indians/1/134703.html

Now does this prove that Non vegetarians live longer?

A proper study on this require taking 1000s of familes from Jains , muslims , christians  of same status , same healthcare , same sanitation etc etc , only then it will give proper results

Quote

But vegetarians are also more likely to exercise, be married, smoke less and drink less alcohol—all factors that also contribute to a longer life. The actual causal relationship between becoming vegetarian and living longer is unclear, and is certainly smaller than the correlation might seem to suggest.

https://qz.com/91123/vegetarians-live-longer-but-its-not-because-they-dont-eat-meat/

 

Edited November 25, 2017 by Singh bling

[Muloghonto]

4 hours ago, randomGuy said:

The 30-40% Indians who are vegetarians and ~10% vegetarian non-Indians won't agree with you on consuming meat being our basic instinct. It's not. 

Ok. Put a plate of cooked meat in front of a 5 year old and see if he/she eats it or not. That should answer your question as to whether its a basic instinct or not.

 

[Muloghonto]

4 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

I am afraid that "natural diet" is a reality. 

 

For example, domesticated dogs are even fed with bread and all other things with human eat. Result is this that domesticated dogs are also getting the same diseases like Human Beings (cancer, osteoporoses, heart diseases, allergies, teeth problems etc.) 

 

You will not find the wild animals ever suffering from these kinds of cancers and osteoporoses, allergies  etc. 

100% incorrect. Cancer and osteoporosis is one of the biggest problems wolves face when they get old. 

 

4 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

Why?

 

The difference is only the "diet". 

 

Now the Western world is understanding the importance of this and you will hear a term "BARF" in the western world, which means they preach to give dogs only the "RAW Meat and Organs and Bones" which they could find in the wild life, in order to avoid all these diseases. Please read about Barf here. 

Again, bullshit propaganda. Dogs and wolves are omnivores. Dogs are capable of digesting cooked meat, lions and tigers are not. Hence feeding dogs cooked meat, is fine. 

 

4 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

Similarly, if we want to avoid these diseases in the Humans, then we have to return to the mother nature. The most disease causing food is "Grains and Lentils". Bread and Rice are not optimal for human health is it causes a lot of diseases which we see today. 

The diet of people you are following or glorifying, is the diet that caused them to die by the age of 40-45. The most disease causing food is red meat. There is a million and one article on it from medical journals. Nobody ever got heart or kidney disease from eating too much carbs. Yet, the bulk majority of kidney and heart disease that exist in the west, is from overeating meat. 

 

4 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

On raw paleo diet, one even does not need to brust his teeth for weeks or even months and there is absolutely no smell or other tooth diseases. Similarly, one does not need to take bath for weeks or months and body does not smells (same as Chimpanzees or Gorillas or monkey or other animals who live in wild life and never brush teeth or take shower, but still they have beautiful teeth and no body smell). 

Bullshit. You don't brush your teeth = your teeth rot by the time you are 45. Your teeth/gums do not care whether the food is cooked or raw, if it gets stuck, it will rot there and give you tooth problems. 

 

And it doesnt matter what you eat don't eat, if you run, you will sweat, if you sweat, you will smell. 

Stop spreading bullshit propaganda. 

As i said, raw paleo-diet is a bullshit theory,because we have physical evidence of species homo sapiens cooking their meat from the earliest time-frames we've seen. 

 

4 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

I don't ask you to believe me. What I ask is only this to be "open minded" and to read and to experience the things yourself.

 

Modified diet has brought a lot of pain for the mankind in form of modern diseases.

But there is way to get rid of this pain and save the humankind from it. 

 

 

Modified diet is the reason we have civilization. Your computer exists because someone figured out how to farm and thus made 1 man capable of feeding 100 men, so those 100 men can sit around and do other ****. Your paleo-diet, is the way of the uncivilized tribes, who have no alternative but to hunt for food every day and cannot support an excess population, due to which we have civilization. 

 

[Muloghonto]

While the raw meat (especially organs) are the "most healing" things in this planet earth. 

 

Actually, 100% the opposite. eating raw organs is the best way to catch disease from the bacteria/virus that hangs out in the mucuous membranes of ALL animals, as organs have a far greater mucuous membrane load than muscle tissues do. 

 

I sincerely hope you are not feeding your kids raw organs - that constitutes dangerous child abuse. 

[Muloghonto]

9 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

 

Well believe me, there are plenty of them in the West. There are dozens of websites about 100% raw Vegan and dozens of books that you could buy online. 

A few random nut-cases don't make plenty. Those 'raw paleo-diet' fad people are literally 1 in a thousand, if not even less. 

 

9 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

Raw potatoes are not eaten in the Raw Vegan Diet, but green leaves of many different kinds of Salats and dozens of wild herbs leaves are eaten. The List is not small if you consider those dozens of wild herbs like dandelions and nettles etc. Then come wild tubers and nuts. 

The list is small compared to the total amount of veggies we are capable of digesting when cooked. Ie, for vegetables, we can eat far more that are cooked than that are not cooked. 

9 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

Actually they follow what Gorillas and Chimpanzees eat in their wild life. Gorillas and Chimpanzees know about 250+ type of different edible plants and herbs and know exactly which plants and herbs and fruits should not be eaten while they are poisonous. 

Agriculture became only about 10000 years ago. So, cultivated vegetables like potatoes and broccoli has no place in this diet. 

We are not gorillas or chimpanzees. And gorillas and chimpanzees do not eat red meat very often- literally once or twice a year. Gorillas and Chimps also eat bugs daily. Particularly caterpillars and ants. Last i checked, your diet is not propagating eating bugs but red meat. Which is not what Gorillas and chimps eat regularly. 

The fact that we can digest potatoes and broccoli and gain nutrition from it, overrules your subjective nonsense of whether it has place in our diet or not. Nature tells us, anything we can digest- cooked or otherwise - and gain nutrients from it, is  fair game to be eaten. This means we can eat cooked cabbage. but not cardboard. 

 

9 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

You will find this particular community in Germany. They are totally raw vegan for decades. 

 

https://germanygoesraw.de/buch-dvd/

 

 

9 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

Believe me. It is 100% TRUE. 

Your argument of e-coli is correct. But again there is more to it. 

E-Coli occurs only in the chickens/ducks/birds which are fed with "GRAINS". 

In wild life, chicken and birds don't eat the cultivated "grains", but their original diet is different kind of "grasses" and "worms" and "insects". 

Stop talking nonsense. E-coli occurs in wild birds of ALL kind, because E-coli has a symbiotic relationship with most birds and are birds are the ground zero of Ecoli bacteria. 

I don't care if your chicken is grain fed, lives in a jungle or in a chicken coop.If you eat raw chicken, you will die one day from e-coli. Period. 

 

9 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

You could visit the Raw Paleo Forum and see hundreds of members there eating raw chickens, ducks and other birds for the last few decades now. 

I don't believe their bullshit claims, as if they ate raw chicken, they'd be in a hospital. Plenty of food poisoning cases from undercooked chicken- both free range and not free-range proves that. So i have zero time for bullshit claims of people. 

 

9 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

A grass fed chicken is totally different than farm raised chicken. It has totally "yellow" colour of fat. 

 

Wild ducks are very tasty while they have a lot of fat. 

 

Believe me, there are thousands of people who are eating raw cattle and birds and fishes for decades. Once again I suggest you to please see witnesses of thousands of members in this Raw Paleo Forum. 

 

 

One could only argue about it in the absence of any solid proof. 

Evolution of Homo Erectus from Homo Habilis didn't occurred due to usage of fire. Therefore, evolution is not dependant upon use of fire. The early modern humans are about 200,000 years old and no evidence is found that they were cooking their food. 

Prove that the evolution didnt occur due to usage of fire. We have objective evidence that species homo sapiens has ALWAYS used fire for cooking. Always. The early modern humans from 200,000 years ago left no evidence of what it ate. But the earliest sites of human habitation we have- they all range from 40,000-70,000 years old- all show evidence of cooking with fire. 

Ergo, we as a species, have evolved to use fire for cooking. So wishing away this reality won't make it true. 

 

9 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

We should be open for new things. They should not only be denied while they are "NEW". 

We may ask for the "evidence", which is the proper way of handling the facts. 

 

Here one link to "Amazon.Com" where Americans are buying raw dried liver in capsules form. Just read hundreds of reviews there. Note, they are not even "Raw Paleo" eaters, but normal dieters with cooked foods and vegetables, but still they witness the healing effects of raw organ food. 

If its FDA approved, then it means its not raw but cured. You cannot sell raw organs for public consumption in the states in their raw form, FDA rules prevent it. You can sell raw organs that can be cooked (if the user doesnt cook it, its their problem). Hence capsules contain cured meat, not true raw meat. 

 

9 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

As far as real "Raw Paleo Eaters" are concerned, then you could read their witnesses in their forum.

 

Please keep in mind the basic rule: In order to "criticize" some thing, one first needs to know "fully" about them. There are many things which make a lot of difference. For example, the farm raised chickens vs wild grass fed chickens. 

 

And none of that changes the fact that saying people can eat raw chicken is 100% bullshit and dangerous propagation of a dangerous and incorrect ideology that mankind did not eat cooked food until recently. As i said, the earliest evidence we have of what mankind ate,involves cooked meat. Not raw meat. So you lack evidence, while i don't.

 

[zen]

2 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

I am afraid that "natural diet" is a reality. 

 

For example, domesticated dogs are even fed with bread and all other things with human eat. Result is this that domesticated dogs are also getting the same diseases like Human Beings (cancer, osteoporoses, heart diseases, allergies, teeth problems etc.) 

 

You will not find the wild animals ever suffering from these kinds of cancers and osteoporoses, allergies  etc. 

 

Why?

 

The difference is only the "diet". 

 

Now the Western world is understanding the importance of this and you will hear a term "BARF" in the western world, which means they preach to give dogs only the "RAW Meat and Organs and Bones" which they could find in the wild life, in order to avoid all these diseases. Please read about Barf here. 

 

Similarly, if we want to avoid these diseases in the Humans, then we have to return to the mother nature. The most disease causing food is "Grains and Lentils". Bread and Rice are not optimal for human health is it causes a lot of diseases which we see today. 

 

On raw paleo diet, one even does not need to brust his teeth for weeks or even months and there is absolutely no smell or other tooth diseases. Similarly, one does not need to take bath for weeks or months and body does not smells (same as Chimpanzees or Gorillas or monkey or other animals who live in wild life and never brush teeth or take shower, but still they have beautiful teeth and no body smell). 

 

I don't ask you to believe me. What I ask is only this to be "open minded" and to read and to experience the things yourself.

 

Modified diet has brought a lot of pain for the mankind in form of modern diseases.

But there is way to get rid of this pain and save the humankind from it. 

 

 

I think I made it clear that no matter what the benefits of eating meat are, ppl like me will not kill animals

 

 “.... would be hard to find a perfect solution so one has to look for solutions which generally benefits all. By killing and eating X, I get A benefits. By eating supplements, I get A/2 benefits while reducing harms to animals. Pick your poison”

 

On raw diet, I do eat salads .... and as already posted, there are ways to stay healthy! 

[zen]

2 hours ago, Singh bling said:

This is from Indian census and not any study about Veg and non Veg. There is another community that outlive Jains guess who?

Now does this prove that Non vegetarians live longer?

A proper study on this require taking 1000s of familes from Jains , muslims , christians  of same status , same healthcare , same sanitation etc etc , only then it will give proper results

 

Connect the dots. It talks about veg food

 

And if you want every factor to be constant, it only shows that food is not the only criteria for longevity, putting a full stop to this discussion about eating meat to stay healthy 

 

Singhsaab, think a little before making a random post

 

/thread

[Alam_dar]

1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

100% incorrect. Cancer and osteoporosis is one of the biggest problems wolves face when they get old. 

Would it be possible for you to provide with link to this claim about wolves?

Are you talking about the wolves living in the wild, or the wild wolves living in the Zoo?

What about other wild animals? Do they suffer so much with diseases like the domestic pets? 

As fas as my knowledge is concerned, then wild animals almost totally free of these diseases which are faced by the domestic pets, eating breads and cooked foods. 

 

 

Quote

Again, bullshit propaganda. Dogs and wolves are omnivores. Dogs are capable of digesting cooked meat, lions and tigers are not. Hence feeding dogs cooked meat, is fine. 

Brother, dogs and wolves are carnivores from nature. They could eat cooked meats just like humans can eat cooked starchy grains, but this is not the optimal diet for both of them. 

 

Actually cows are also fed grains after the advent of agriculture some 10,000 years ago, but again grains is not optimal diet for cows. 

 

And cats also belong to the family of Lions and tigers, and domestic cats are indeed eating the cooked food. So, do you consider the cats as carnivores or omnivores? 

 

The claim that dogs and wolves are omnivores is still not proven. link. 

 

Quote

The diet of people you are following or glorifying, is the diet that caused them to die by the age of 40-45. The most disease causing food is red meat. There is a million and one article on it from medical journals. Nobody ever got heart or kidney disease from eating too much carbs. Yet, the bulk majority of kidney and heart disease that exist in the west, is from overeating meat. 

I once again request to please differentiate between the cooked meat diet and the raw meat diet. Moreover, Europeans are eating cooked grains which is totally against the paleo version of eating. 

 

Quote

Bullshit. You don't brush your teeth = your teeth rot by the time you are 45. Your teeth/gums do not care whether the food is cooked or raw, if it gets stuck, it will rot there and give you tooth problems. 

I am already over 45. 

Last time I went to the doctor, then my all teeth are in optimal health (I myself is new to paleo diet and practising it only for couple of months). Earlier I got teeth pain, but all that automatically disappeared on Paleo diet, although I was not intended to use raw paleo diet for this. 

 

Tooth problems occur mainly due to the consumption of Grains (carbohydrates). While fat (animal fat or coconut fat) is good against the toothache.

 

One may say it "Bogus/Bullshit claims etc", but after gaining "first hand Experience", there could never be any denying from me. 

 

Quote

And it doesnt matter what you eat don't eat, if you run, you will sweat, if you sweat, you will smell. 

Once again there is no denying after the "first hand personal experience". There is lot of difference in my personal case. My wife is a witness. Actually I even don't need the witness of my wife as I myself could feel this difference without any doubts. 
 

Quote

As i said, raw paleo-diet is a bullshit theory,we have physical evidence of species homo sapiens cooking their meat from the earliest time-frames we've seen.

First Hominidae appeared 15 Million years ago. 

First Homo (homo habilis) appeared 3 million years ago. 

First anatomically Modern Humans appeared 200,000 years ago

Advent of fire is said to be older than appearance of Modern Humans. It may be modern Humans were cooking their food. 

 

I know only this that "Raw Meat" has amazing "healing effects". One never gets these effects from the cooked meats. Actually, cooking meats make them very much poisonous. 

 

Quote

Modified diet is the reason we have civilization. Your computer exists because someone figured out how to farm and thus made 1 man capable of feeding 100 men, so those 100 men can sit around and do other ****. Your paleo-diet, is the way of the uncivilized tribes, who have no alternative but to hunt for food every day and cannot support an excess population, due to which we have civilization.

 Small level civilizations occurred before advent of agricultur where animals were domesticated and they had green grass every where to eat. In Africa, still there are places where there is civilization, but no agriculture and people are still hunter-gatherers. 

 

And question here is not about the forming of civilization and it's benefits, but question is here about the "Optimal" human diet, which could heal him. 

[Alam_dar]

2 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

Actually, 100% the opposite. eating raw organs is the best way to catch disease from the bacteria/virus that hangs out in the mucuous membranes of ALL animals, as organs have a far greater mucuous membrane load than muscle tissues do. 

 

I sincerely hope you are not feeding your kids raw organs - that constitutes dangerous child abuse. 

It seems that you don't believe me when I tell you that people are eating organs of healthy and wild and grass fed animals for decades without any problems. 

Just see this woman eating organs (heart, liver, lungs and kidney of wild Moose). She is the most inspiring woman whom I followed to get rid of my health diseases.

 

 

 

Actually, the hunter-gatherer tribes of Africa have been eating the liver of freshly killed animals for centuries and they got no problems.  Link. They consider liver to be sacred and there is huge demand of organs. 

 

 

[Alam_dar]

2 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

A few random nut-cases don't make plenty. Those 'raw paleo-diet' fad people are literally 1 in a thousand, if not even less. 

The question for me is never the "majority" or "minority" of people. Therefore it didn't matter if they number 1 in thousand or even less. 

I read their arguments. I experimented with "Raw Vegetable Diet" and indeed it healed my to some extent. These results I never got from any cooked diet. 

 

Quote

The list is small compared to the total amount of veggies we are capable of digesting when cooked. Ie, for vegetables, we can eat far more that are cooked than that are not cooked.

 

The healing power in the wild raw herbs is far more than any cooked cultivated vegetable or cooked animal food. 

Please also note that these vegetables (for cooking) came into use only about 10,000 years ago with the advent of agriculture. Before that,  Homo species didn't know about these vegetables. 

Yes, we have adopted ourselves to eat these cultivated vegetables, but still they are far away from being optimal diet for healing. 

 

Quote

We are not gorillas or chimpanzees. And gorillas and chimpanzees do not eat red meat very often- literally once or twice a year. Gorillas and Chimps also eat bugs daily. Particularly caterpillars and ants. Last i checked, your diet is not propagating eating bugs but red meat. Which is not what Gorillas and chimps eat regularly.

Yes we are not gorillas or chimps, but from evolutionary point of view very close to them. 

 

There is some misunderstandings here about raw paleo diet. Indeed eating raw insects is also possible and there are people who eat some types of insects too. 

 

BBC documentary about eating insects. 

 

We will talk about it later. 

Quote

The fact that we can digest potatoes and broccoli and gain nutrition from it, overrules your subjective nonsense of whether it has place in our diet or not. Nature tells us, anything we can digest- cooked or otherwise - and gain nutrients from it, is  fair game to be eaten. This means we can eat cooked cabbage. but not cardboard. 

Please try to understand my point of view. It is not about being able to digest any food, but it is about "healing effects" and about the "optimal human diet".

 

 

Quote

Stop talking nonsense. E-coli occurs in wild birds of ALL kind, because E-coli has a symbiotic relationship with most birds and are birds are the ground zero of Ecoli bacteria. 

There seems to be some misunderstanding. E-Colli is found in the wild birds, who have been kept in the cage, of if these wild birds are eating things in the urban areas. 

Captive wild birds as reservoirs of enteropathogenic E. coli (EPEC) and Shiga-toxin producing E. coli (STEC)

 

 

Did Homo Sapiens evolve only due to cooked foods?

Quote

Prove that the evolution didnt occur due to usage of fire. We have objective evidence that species homo sapiens has ALWAYS used fire for cooking. Always. The early modern humans from 200,000 years ago left no evidence of what it ate. But the earliest sites of human habitation we have- they all range from 40,000-70,000 years old- all show evidence of cooking with fire. 

Ergo, we as a species, have evolved to use fire for cooking. So wishing away this reality won't make it true. 

It is only a hypothesis and there is no ample proofs of it. There are scientists who support this hypothesis, and there are scientists who oppose it and claim these changes occurred due to eating of soft animal food like brains and bone marrows. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raw_foodism#History

Leslie Aiello, professor of biological anthropology at University College London, and physiologist Peter Wheeler. Aiello and Wheeler believe it was soft animal foods, including bone marrow and brains, which contributed to humans developing the characteristics Wrangham attributes to cooked foods.^[50] Further, archaeological evidence suggests that cooking fires began in earnest only around 250 kya, when ancient hearths, earth ovens, burnt animal bones, and flint appear regularly across Europe and the Middle East. Two million years ago, the only sign of fire is burnt earth with human remains, which many anthropologists consider coincidence rather than evidence of intentional fire.^[51] Many anthropologists believe the increases in human brain-size occurred well before the advent of cooking, due to a shift away from the consumption of nuts and berries to the consumption of raw meat.^[52][53][54]

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_of_fire_by_early_humans

Critics of the hypothesis argue that while there is a linear increase in brain volume of the Homo genus over time, adding fire control and cooking does not add anything meaningful to the data. Species such as Homo ergaster existed with large brain volumes during time periods with little to no evidence of fire for cooking. Little variation exists in the brain sizes of Homo erectus dated from periods of weak and strong evidence for cooking.^[42] In Cornélio’s experiments involving mice fed raw versus cooked meat, the results found that cooking meat did not increase the amount of calories taken up by mice, leading to the study’s conclusion that the energetic gain is the same, if not greater, in raw meat diets than cooked meats.^{[42][not in citation given]} Studies such as this and others lead criticisms of the hypothesis to state that the increases in human brain-size occurred well before the advent of cooking due to a shift away from the consumption of nuts and berries to the consumption of meat.^[58][59] 

 

 

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If its FDA approved, then it means its not raw but cured. You cannot sell raw organs for public consumption in the states in their raw form, FDA rules prevent it. You can sell raw organs that can be cooked (if the user doesnt cook it, its their problem). Hence capsules contain cured meat, not true raw meat. 

It is not cured, but only dried at temperature less than 37 degree Celsius. You could read about it in the information about these capsules. 

Important thing to note is this that "cooked liver" is not used for healing purpose, but the raw dried liver was used which contains the organic (living) vitamins and minerals and trace elements, while it has not been heated above 37 degrees. 

 

And it is not only the raw dried liver, but on amazon.com, you will find all types of raw animal organs and raw glands, which are being used for healing purpose. For example, see the dessicated raw animal thyroid here . 

 

[Cricket_Fan]

5 hours ago, zen said:

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Census-data-show-Jains-outlive-others/articleshow/50842275.cms 

 

Jains outlive others in Ind

 

 

 

LOL.Beef Eating Keralites not only has the highest life expectancy in India and also good in sports too.Jains got nothing on them.

[zen]

This is turning in to a comedy thread!

 

 

[randomGuy]

6 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

Ok. Put a plate of cooked meat in front of a 5 year old and see if he/she eats it or not. That should answer your question as to whether its a basic instinct or not.

 

He would eat vegetarian as well. He would eat cooked up human meat as well. So? 

[Alam_dar]

2 hours ago, randomGuy said:

He would eat vegetarian as well. He would eat cooked up human meat as well. So? 

As far as I have seen the behaviour of kids, then they absolutely love meat and it is difficult to let them eat the vegetables. I am talking here about the cooked meat vs cooked vegetables. 

 

As far as raw state is concerned, then due to cellulose of vegetables, no kid (or even grown up humans) will eat them. As compared to these cultivated vegetables, both kids and grown up humans are in position to eat and digest the green salads and green wild herbs very easily. 

 

Also, raw meat is one of the easiest things to digest for the kids and human beings. It happens due to this reason that raw meat has the enzymes in it which help the digestion of raw meat with ease. 

 

Thus raw meat is digested much easily than the cooked meat and even much easily than the cooked Lentils/grains/breads. Mother Nature has designed us in such way that raw meat is the most optimal diet for us. 

 

Raw paleo diet consists of heavy raw meat diet, which is supplemented with the raw green salad leaves and the green leaves of the wild plants and herbs. Alone green wild herbs are not enough, as they don't provide the needed energy and thus not the "satisfaction feeling" which comes from raw meat and animal fat. 

 

As far as cannibalism is concerned, then I don't want to say much about it without studying it in depth, but my limited knowledge and feeling is this that cannibalism "Naturally" does not exist in the mammals, but in the reptiles. 

 

 

 

 

[The Dark Horse]

Is it a new Western thing to eat raw meat? No thanks. I'm happy with cooked food.

 

[randomGuy]

20 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

As far as I have seen the behaviour of kids, then they absolutely love meat and it is difficult to let them eat the vegetables. I am talking here about the cooked meat vs cooked vegetables. 

 

As far as raw state is concerned, then due to cellulose of vegetables, no kid (or even grown up humans) will eat them. As compared to these cultivated vegetables, both kids and grown up humans are in position to eat and digest the green salads and green wild herbs very easily. 

 

Also, raw meat is one of the easiest things to digest for the kids and human beings. It happens due to this reason that raw meat has the enzymes in it which help the digestion of raw meat with ease. 

 

Thus raw meat is digested much easily than the cooked meat and even much easily than the cooked Lentils/grains/breads. Mother Nature has designed us in such way that raw meat is the most optimal diet for us. 

 

Raw paleo diet consists of heavy raw meat diet, which is supplemented with the raw green salad leaves and the green leaves of the wild plants and herbs. Alone green wild herbs are not enough, as they don't provide the needed energy and thus not the "satisfaction feeling" which comes from raw meat and animal fat. 

 

As far as cannibalism is concerned, then I don't want to say much about it without studying it in depth, but my limited knowledge and feeling is this that cannibalism "Naturally" does not exist in the mammals, but in the reptiles. 

 

 

 

 

Vegetarian also includes lentils (daal), beans(lobhia, kidney beans - Rajma), chhole, cheese, paneer etc. Compare meat with these items.   Since I left non-veg at age 8-10 as a kid , I never  felt like eating it again. 

[MechEng]

10 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

I have not studied enough about cannibalism in HOMO species .

I don't know if it was normal like eating wild deer, or it was primarily due to the shortage of food. 

I don't know if cannibalism took place while it is "healing" (like eating the wild deer or fish), or it took place as pride over the enemy.  I read somewhere a form of cannibalism where only the already dead relatives were eaten so that their soul could live up in the remaining living ones. 

 

If we talk about "nature", then Cannibalism is not usually found in the mammals, but it is found in the reptiles.

Dogs, cats, lions, tigers, leopards etc. don't indulge in cannibalism.  

 

Therefore, it may be possible if human beings are involved in cannibalism, then it is not the "nature", but the "modified" behaviour of human beings (like eating dead relatives with religious belief that his soul will live further in the living relatives, or eating the enemies as pride etc.). 

 

Perhaps this "modified" behaviour is also responsible for leaving the natural diet and eating only the "vegetables". 

 

Cannibalism was never so much wide spread among humans that we could say with surety that "nature" lead them towards it. 

 

 

The people you're talking about who would eat their dead relatives were an Indian tribe described by Megasthenes on his visit to India. Very creepy philosophy of their souls living in them, their creepiness matches with the letters written by serial killers.

 

I don't think vegetarianism is a modified behaviour, because personally I never had the natural desire to eat meat and I have tried many types of meat except beef and pork. 

 

Natural desire for diet of any kind largely depends on the upbringing environment, for example I've watched that the Balochi people eat only chicken and lamb because they're brought up in desert environment where there is no vegetation, if you serve them vegetarian food they may not like it. Whereas I know few Jains who do not even eat watermelon and Jack fruit because they have meat like texture.