Virat Kohli or Steven Smith - over all better batsman as of now?

[rtmohanlal]

First I thought it to be Smith because of his much superior test record.Almost evenly distributed avg:s in all countries.One negative is the <30 avg: in Bangladesh which is the latest entry into 'non minnow' category.But has scored only 2 100s in the 3rd & 4rth match inns combined.Kohli lags Smith by around 9.5.Also his avg: in ENG: is so pathetic.Kohli has 4 100s in the 3rd & 4rth match inns combined.Just like Smith's  over all avg: is  convincingly more at home than abroad, Kohli's avg:s too are like that in more or less same proportions. All in all Smith is comfortably ahead in  tests.And over all  inns they played too is almost the same.

 

But in one days Kohli is far ahead. An avg: difference of  12.5 despite playing more than double the no: of inns than that of Smith.Kohli has  32 100s to Smith's 8. Kohli avg:s 45+ in all countries.Smith has 7 countries where he avg:s <33(In South Africa 1 inns vs Ireland excluded.Also in Bangladesh too he has been paltry even if it was when Bangladesh was minnows). In these days where  50  is the bench mark of greatness  in one dayers, this is a very moderate record.More over Kohli's over all avg: is more or less evenly distributed as 58.03 : 54.16  at home : abroad/neutral respectiverly.

But for Smith  the difference is so glaring.It is 58.8: 32.74.Yes.... Smith has played  better impact inns in general when compared to Kohli in world  cups , but Kohli too has been brilliant in champions trophy.And Kohli is vastly superior chaser & finisher. And in T20S there is no comparison. Kohli is miles ahead.

 

Though tests carries the most weightage, Kohli's over all limited overs credentials is vastly superior to   that of Smith. So it is Kohli for me.Thoughts....

Edited November 27, 2017 by rtmohanlal

[SK_IH]

i have been mesmerised by smith,i ll not go on and on about his test exploits and how he transformed into this all time greatness with the bat.but the abiding memory of smith for me will always be the three consecutive top innings in knockout games in world cup,particularly that match against pakistan where it seemed he was playing on a different planet.neither the bowling nor the situation bothered this guy as he comfortably steered aus to safety and eventually a win

one more thing which is ironical is this guy all though fidgety never looks like getting out in test matches ,this last test against eng is a prime example ,eng threw everything at him but he stood tall,kohli on other hand is a very shaky starter 

kohli is a supremely elegant batsman ,very gifted but atm steve smith is numero uno for me

Edited November 27, 2017 by SK_IH

[putrevus]

Average of 60 is such a rarified accomplishment, no ordinary batsman touches that average after 50 tests.That alone makes him better than Kohli.

[rtmohanlal]

30 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Average of 60 is such a rarified accomplishment, no ordinary batsman touches that average after 50 tests.That alone makes him better than Kohli.

That means Kohli's convincingly better limited overs record  can be over looked??

[putrevus]

Just now, rtmohanlal said:

That means Kohli's convincingly better limited overs record  can be over looked??

No but Smith does have performances in crunch games and has won a world cup. Kohli is far superior superior batsman in short forms but he does not have  that exclusive accomplishment as Smith. Avg 60 is that great in my view 

[rtmohanlal]

4 minutes ago, putrevus said:

No but Smith does have performances in crunch games and has won a world cup. Kohli is far superior superior batsman in short forms but he does not have  that exclusive accomplishment as Smith. Avg 60 is that great in my view 

agreed.....in world cups Smith has performed much better as of now.But in champions trophy(not far behind from world cups w.r.t pressure factor) Kohli has  performed brilliantly.And Smith's other weaknesses in one dayers is so glaring about which I have posted in my OP.

[G_B_]

hmm as of now Smith in tests Kohli in LOI

 

one thing i will say about smith. His stance makes it clear that he relies on hand eye coordination. Potentially an issue for a really long career.

 

Chanderpaul was the exception though.

[maniac]

Obviously Smith in tests and Kohli in LOIs but overall Smith at this stage....Kohli is trending in the AB category...a batsman that is magical to watch and feared but doesn’t have that defining innings yet.

[putrevus]

Just now, rtmohanlal said:

agreed.....in world cups Smith has performed much better as of now.But in champions trophy(not far behind from world cups w.r.t pressure factor) Kohli has  performed brilliantly.And Smith's other weaknesses in one dayers is so glaring about which I have posted in my OP.

that is the problem with odi stats , unless you have great world cup stats other stats are not put on same scale.

 

Test cricket is different ball game that is why Smith is ahead as of now. But one thing to remember about Kohli has 19 hundreds in 61 games which is very good except the other guy has 21 100s  and is averaging 61 plus.

 

What remains to be seen is if Smith can keep up this and Kohli can improve his stats.Smith brings a solidity in test batting which Kohli so far has not yet exhibited.

 

[maniac]

Simple Kohli is rated more than AB who has a lot more destructive innings and an amazing S/r and avg in ODIS because Kohli has played more clutch innings in the ODI format....that is why Smith is rated so high for his ability to turn it on in any format.

[rtmohanlal]

Another factor a lot of people tend to under rate is Kohli's  performance in the world cup final 2011.Agreed that Kohli has been not up to the mark as of now in world cups. But his 39(51) in that 2011 final is as important as Smith's inns in 2015 final.In Kohli's case the target was a very huge 274 compared to a paltry 186 in Smith's case.Kohli was instrumental in putting India back on track after the fall of 2 early wkts  along with Gambhir .

[maniac]

2 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

Another factor a lot of people tend to under rate is Kohli's  performance in the world cup final 2011.Agreed that Kohli has been not up to the mark as of now in world cups. But his 39(51) in that 2011 final is as important as Smith's inns in 2015 final.In Kohli's case the target was a very huge 274 compared to a paltry 186 in Smith's case.Kohli was instrumental in putting India back on track after the fall of 2 early wkts  along with Gambhir .

What about his QF and Semis knocks?

 

See overall Kohli but Smith has to be a test specialist like Cook to not even be in the same league as Virat...He is a clutch LOI player in his own right and given how he is head and above competition in tests puts him ahead.

[putrevus]

2 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

Another factor a lot of people tend to under rate is Kohli's  performance in the world cup final 2011.Agreed that Kohli has been not up to the mark as of now in world cups. But his 39(51) in that 2011 final is as important as Smith's inns in 2015 final.In Kohli's case the target was a very huge 274 compared to a paltry 186 in Smith's case.Kohli was instrumental in putting India back on track after the fall of 2 early wkts  along with Gambhir .

Kohli's has won world cup and CT and he is the best T20 player who has played in T20 world cups also no one comes close.If he does well again in SA and improves in England there is no reason why he cannot be best player in anybody's book.

[rtmohanlal]

2 minutes ago, maniac said:

What about his QF and Semis knocks?

 

See overall Kohli but Smith has to be a test specialist like Cook to not even be in the same league as Virat...He is a clutch LOI player in his own right and given how he is head and above competition in tests puts him ahead.

Agreed.Both of them too were brilliant knocks .But weren't  Kohli's 3 Champions trophy knock out inns 'much lesser  pressure' matches????If any, slightly lesser in pressure when compared to those of Smith, that is all ....because Champions trophy too has been an 'all nation participating' tournament.And as I said I evaluate Kohli's 35 in 2011 final  on  a par with that of Smith's final knock because of the vast scoreboard pressure.Naturally  for his better(not far ahead though)  over all  performance in world cup preformances Smith gets more points.That doesn't mean we can completely neglect Smith's vastly inferior other track records in one dayers when compared to that of Kohli.

[rtmohanlal]

16 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Kohli's has won world cup and CT and he is the best T20 player who has played in T20 world cups also no one comes close.If he does well again in SA and improves in England there is no reason why he cannot be best player in anybody's book.

My point is simple.Just because Smith has superior performances in a world cup(Kohli too has an influential world cup final knock to go with 3 clutch champions trophy knocks)  doesn't mean we can neglect Smith's vastly inferior track record  in the other share of 'vast majority of his inns.'

[Gollum]

Test cricket is the real deal, Smith is so much better in it than the others that it isn't even funny anymore. Add to that his clutchness in WCs, no chance for the others now. In my eyes Kohli can be rated equal to Smith if he can bring down the test average differential to around 5 runs and have a superlative 2019 WC scoring 600+ runs and getting a match winning ton in the finals. His dreadful choking in 2015 SF and 2017 CT F can only be nullified by a Viv Richards type innings in 2019/2023 WC final. 

[mishra]

Kohli is more destructive and very pleasing to watch when on song, while Smith ugly he may be to bat, but doesnt throws his wicket and is more responsible in his innings. May be Kohli bats the way he bats bcos he has more confidence in his teamates after him. 

Real test for Kohli will be when chips are down. Back to back trips to Oz, Afric and England should settle that

Edited November 27, 2017 by mishra

[Laaloo]

Tests - Smith

ODIs - Kohli

T20s - Kohli is light years ahead of Smith

 

[Pak_cric]

smith in tests, kohli in Odis (unless ofcourse Amir is bowling to him)

Edited November 27, 2017 by Pak_cric

[King Tendulkar]

We have become obsessed with ... not done it in World Cup final lol I mean ffs someone may never in play in World Cup final or play for super crap team and have to chase 600! I think we need to be a lot smarter in analysis then not done one World Cup final thing

 

look at overall performance in tournaments