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LORD_analyst

Excellent analysis by sanju manju!!

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10 minutes ago, LORD_analyst said:

manju article-  www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21743273/why-shami-yadav-need-change-their-line

 

 

 

thats the reason why indian bowlers struggle overseas.

Its overly simplistic to say "attack the stumps".    When you do that, you also open up more scoring opportunities for the batsmen, especially in batting friendly conditions.   You need specialized skills in order to "attack the stumps", i.e. an ability to move the ball into the batsmen at an uncomfortable pace and length.  SanjuManju cites Bhuvi's example - but Bhuvi has the ability to bowl arguably, the best, and most well-disguised, in-swinger in Cricket.  If it were so easy, everybody would do it. 

 

I would love to see a properly researched, data-driven in-depth piece on this by the likes of Jarrod Kimber or someone like him.   Remember Jarrod's piece on yorkers, and how he blew to smithereens the favorite cliche of commentators everywhere - "why aren't these brainless bowlers bowling more yorkers"?   

Edited by sandeep

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9 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Its overly simplistic to say "attack the stumps".    When you do that, you also open up more scoring opportunities for the batsmen, especially in batting friendly conditions.   You need specialized skills in order to "attack the stumps", i.e. an ability to move the ball into the batsmen at an uncomfortable pace and length.  SanjuManju cites Bhuvi's example - but Bhuvi has the ability to bowl arguably, the best, and most well-disguised, in-swinger in Cricket.  If it were so easy, everybody would do it. 

 

I would love to see a properly researched, data-driven in-depth piece on this by the likes of Jarrod Kimber or someone like him.   Remember Jarrod's piece on yorkers, and how he blew to smithereens the favorite cliche of commentators everywhere - "why aren't these brainless bowlers bowling more yorkers"?   

Yeah Jarrod Kimber is a better analyst than a guy who played test cricket and did well against 2 very good pace attacks....him typing with his pale white fingers fooling you?

 

anyway it was a well done analysis...Manjrekar can be overbearing with his pessimism at times and rightfully gets criticized but he is a pretty good analyst. As I have said many times before here Gavaskar is another one who gets attacked and again rightfully for some quirks like supporting Mumbai players or having a stats fetish  but he knows a thing or two

about cricket...ever listen to his analysis? It’s pretty good but then again you were busy making  statements filled with bravado like Anderson is a phattu bowler or we will Smack Philander like a little bitch etc 

Edited by maniac

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1 hour ago, maniac said:

Yeah Jarrod Kimber is a better analyst than a guy who played test cricket and did well against 2 very good pace attacks....him typing with his pale white fingers fooling you?

 

anyway it was a well done analysis...Manjrekar can be overbearing with his pessimism at times and rightfully gets criticized but he is a pretty good analyst. As I have said many times before here Gavaskar is another one who gets attacked and again rightfully for some quirks like supporting Mumbai players or having a stats fetish  but he knows a thing or two

about cricket...ever listen to his analysis? It’s pretty good but then again you were busy making  statements filled with bravado like Anderson is a phattu bowler or we will Smack Philander like a little bitch etc 

Lol.  Don't get so worked up because I disagreed with your idol there, froggy.   

 

1 hour ago, maniac said:

you were busy making  statements filled with bravado like Anderson is a phattu bowler or we will Smack Philander like a little bitch etc

Stop.  Making.  up.  trash.  And attributing it to me.  Find one post where I claimed that we will "smack philander like a little bitch", or that Anderson is a phattu bowler.   Find it and quote it, or apologize.  

Edited by sandeep

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24 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Lol.  Don't get so worked up because I disagreed with your idol there, froggy.   

 

Stop.  Making.  up.  trash.  And attributing it to me.  Find one post where I claimed that we will "smack philander like a little bitch".   Find it and quote it, or apologize.  

I found the whole exchange about Anderson and Philander hilarious :phehe:

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20 minutes ago, beetle said:

Language guys....mind the language.

Lying and falsely attributing trash is worse than cursing.    And this is not the first time Manju-niac has done this.   How about addressing the root cause of the problem?   I put up with Manju-niac's nonsense quite a bit, because you do have to account for reading and comprehension disabilities, and should be nice to such folks.  But such lies cannot be tolerated unchallenged.  Mods have as much responsibility to police such garbage, as they do "language". 

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33 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Lol.  Don't get so worked up because I disagreed with your idol there, froggy.   

 

Stop.  Making.  up.  trash.  And attributing it to me.  Find one post where I claimed that we will "smack philander like a little bitch".   Find it and quote it, or apologize.  

Not verbatim but in essence...there is a reason why you are known as Bharat Sipahi Sandeep :giggle:

 

but like a black rapper who makes his dough from rapping about racism and ends up

marrying a hot white chick...you picked some no name timber Kimber over Manju :no:

 

 

 

Edited by maniac

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3 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Trust an idiot of your calibre to interpret the "essence" of gobar on smelling roses.  Some unique translation ability you have there froggy.  

Alright alright I will take the high road...you seem to be in a fit of rage :nervous:

 

Anyway I hate the whole I told you so childish banter but I will privately  msg the next acts of online pseudo patriotic bravado...deal!!!

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14 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Lying and falsely attributing trash is worse than cursing.    And this is not the first time Manju-niac has done this.   How about addressing the root cause of the problem?   I put up with Manju-niac's nonsense quite a bit, because you do have to account for reading and comprehension disabilities, and should be nice to such folks.  But such lies cannot be tolerated unchallenged.  Mods have as much responsibility to police such garbage, as they do "language". 

Using abusive language against fellow posters is against forum rules.

You can argue without the abuse.

 

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Call that duffer Manju analysis as excellent at your own risk, not long a go this duffer has said  dhawan has tightened up his technique and he was seen struggling like a hack in 1st odi,he was constantly taunting bhuvi in zim 2015 for increasing his pace and look what bhuvi has become with that increased pace.

On article, its simple pace without accuracy and accuracy without pace is of zero value in cricket, not hard to understand it and if he has taken this long to understand the simple fact  or seeking harshas help to understand it then I can only laugh on that idiot.

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18 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Trust an idiot of your calibre to interpret the "essence" of gobar on smelling roses.  Some unique translation ability you have there froggy.  

Chill, why are you in so much rage?? Maniac is one of the best posters here, with both humour and cricketing knowledge, abusing him like this is not worthy, if you really want to frustrate him then call Rohit a fatty opener or a maggie man and then see.:laugh1:

Edited by speedheat

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Just now, speedheat said:

Chill, why are you in so much rage?? Maniac is one of the best poster here, with both humour and cricketing knowledge, abusing him like this is not worthy, if you really want to frustrate him then call Rohit a fatty opener or a maggie man and then see.:laugh1:

I wanted to give you half a like because don’t like the last sentence :mad:

 

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11 minutes ago, maniac said:

Alright alright I will take the high road...you seem to be in a fit of rage :nervous:

 

Anyway I hate the whole I told you so childish banter but I will privately  msg the next acts of online pseudo patriotic bravado...deal!!!

High road?  Stop kissing my ass and spamming me in messages, while continuing to leak trash on this thread.   You made stuff up and attributed it to me.   I have no problems with banter and disagreement, even fiesty ones.   But this kind of garbage will be called out.  

 

@beetle fair point about language, acknowledged.  

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2 minutes ago, speedheat said:

Chill, why are you in so much rage?? Maniac is one of the best posters here, with both humour and cricketing knowledge, abusing him like this is not worthy, if you really want to frustrate him then call Rohit a fatty opener or a maggie man and then see.:laugh1:

I'm not in "rage".  But this is not the first time Manju-niac has cooked up ridiculous strawmen as things supposedly I said.   If tomorrow, some pathetic poster keeps claiming repeatedly, that you want to see Stuart Binny and Vinay Kumar opening the bowling for India in SA ahead of Shami etc;  At some point, its going to irritate you.  

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4 minutes ago, sandeep said:

High road?  Stop kissing my ass and spamming me in messages, while continuing to leak trash on this thread.   You made stuff up and attributed it to me.   I have no problems with banter and disagreement, even fiesty ones.   But this kind of garbage will be called out.  

 

@beetle fair point about language, acknowledged.  

Ok...,you seem to be hyper sensitive guy and took it personally....so here  you go....Keeping in mind all the cyber bullying stuff we hear about these days,I hereby apologize for slightly exaggerating or if it makes you feel better largely exaggerating what I said about the “essence”

of some of your well thought out and well constructed posts.

 

So for that I offer you a heartfelt apology and some ICF$$$...mods what is the process for this now?

 

Please accept my cyber apology on an online forum and also some cyber flowers. :flowers:

 

Now GTFO

Edited by maniac

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2 hours ago, speedheat said:

Chill, why are you in so much rage?? Maniac is one of the best posters here, with both humour and cricketing knowledge, abusing him like this is not worthy, if you really want to frustrate him then call Rohit a fatty opener or a maggie man and then see.:laugh1:

One thing I will always appreciate @maniac for. He has his favorites and supports them to the hilt. People have abused his favorites, ganged up on him, called him loser for supporting them. For a long time he was (and is) alone in supporting some of those players. I have never ever seen him lose his temper over that at all

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Manju doesn’t deserve such high praises from you guys. He was the one who said gems like - Indian bowlers show slow down to bowl with control, and that fast bowling is not in our genes so Indian bowlers should not try it, in 3rd test pointing out that Shami and Ishant despite bowling well got one wicket less than spinners in what was a dead track for pacers.

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1 hour ago, Forever Indian said:

Manju doesn’t deserve such high praises from you guys. He was the one who said gems like - Indian bowlers show slow down to bowl with control, and that fast bowling is not in our genes so Indian bowlers should not try it, in 3rd test pointing out that Shami and Ishant despite bowling well got one wicket less than spinners in what was a dead track for pacers.

Manju has forever been a 'band-wagon' - this is not a "new" insight by any means.  Indian pace bowlers have been found wanting with their tactics for ages.  This observation would have been insightful, if he had come up with it 15 years ago.   Not today.  And irony is that Manju is actually hopping on to this particular myth-driven band-wagon, when the time is ripe for it to be proven wrong.   

 

 

Edited by sandeep

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Zaheer was the only one in recent times capable of setting up batsmen. From the current line up Shami is decent in that aspect. If he has a mean bouncer his full-length deliveries would be very effective. Fast bowlers have to have one outstanding stock delivery complemented by deceptive variations. Bowling is more a mind game than we think. Remember how Vaas snared Tendulkar with an innocuous wide ball. If you see in isolation you would blame Sachin. But if you watch previous few balls he faced you would know how he gifted his wicket. Mcgrath for all his accuracy depends a lot on his variation. I remember how he scuffed up vigorously one side off the ball for his full length inswingers against lower order when India was in tatters chasing a paltry total. I think it was Saba karim who was facing. 

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18 hours ago, New guy said:

One thing I will always appreciate @maniac for. He has his favorites and supports them to the hilt. People have abused his favorites, ganged up on him, called him loser for supporting them. For a long time he was (and is) alone in supporting some of those players. I have never ever seen him lose his temper over that at all

There is a reason for that ...things sort themselves out in a big way to shut haters up :aha:

 

case in point today :yay:

 

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23 hours ago, LORD_analyst said:

manju article-  www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21743273/why-shami-yadav-need-change-their-line

 

 

 

thats the reason why indian bowlers struggle overseas.

had those catches were taken at the slips, Shami would have got lot more wickets to show...good manju has taken this into account, as well.

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20 hours ago, Vilander said:

Good Article from Sanjay.

 

Its true that Shami and Umesh do not attack the stumps enough.

That's when u will leaking lot of runs...and u will be blaming the bowlers for that...

ideally, you should attack 5th stump...that's when batsmen will become unsure whether to leave it or play it....

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1 hour ago, gakgupta said:

That's when u will leaking lot of runs...and u will be blaming the bowlers for that...

ideally, you should attack 5th stump...that's when batsmen will become unsure whether to leave it or play it....

Ofcourse there is a skill in that, top of third stump is not easy to achieve, i think its based on skill. Some bowlers got lots of LBW because of accuracy, yeah if you drift to leg then folks will score heavy.

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1.  Manju's analysis in this artucle is partially good, partially bad and partially a circumventous way of putting down fast bowling by Indians.

 

2.  Shami has the best strike rate and 3rd best bowling average among all pacers of all countries bowling in test matches in India  in the last 5 years. Why is this point not recognised by Manju while discussing wicket-taking ability of Shami at home  ?    ( Bhuvi ranks 2nd and 4th )

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=1;class=1;filter=advanced;host=6;orderby=bowling_strike_rate;qualmin1=5;qualval1=wickets;spanmin1=09+Dec+2012;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=1;class=1;filter=advanced;host=6;orderby=bowling_average;qualmin1=5;qualval1=wickets;spanmin1=09+Dec+2012;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

 

 

3. Our pacers need to take more 5-fers and 4-fers. I agree with that. They need to cut down the wide of 6th stump  deliveries drastically, I agree with that.

 

4.  Pacers need to target top of off-stump to top of 5th stump as their stock deliveries.  Attacking the stumps, as Manju suggests, will lead to a lot of leg-stump and down the leg deliveries. It may work somewhat on the low Asian pitches. In SA, England etc., off stump to 5th stump need to be attacked repeatedly. 

Edited by express bowling

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1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

 

4.  Pacers need to target top of off-stump to top of 5th stump as their stock deliveries.  Attacking the stumps, as Manju suggests, will lead to a lot of leg-stump and down the leg deliveries. It may work somewhat on the low Asian pitches. In SA, England etc., off stump to 5th stump needs to be attacked repeatedly. 

Length is also important, I don't Indian pacers get beat on just line, they get wrong on length too on these pitches.That said maintaining that sort of line and length is not easy.

 

I would want Indian bowlers to remain patient and not try to take wicket of every ball. 

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2 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Length is also important, I don't Indian pacers get beat on just line, they get wrong on length too on these pitches.That said maintaining that sort of line and length is not easy.

 

I would want Indian bowlers to remain patient and not try to take wicket of every ball. 

 

Target top of off stump and you will be automatically hit good length on any kind of surface 

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1 minute ago, express bowling said:

 

Target top of off stump and you will be automatically hit good length on any kind of surface 

That is not that easy as you you think.Not many bowlers could do it in history of cricket.

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On 12/13/2017 at 2:33 PM, express bowling said:

1.  Manju's analysis in this artucle is partially good, partially bad and partially a circumventous way of putting down fast bowling by Indians.

 

2.  Shami has the best strike rate and 3rd best bowling average among all pacers of all countries bowling in test matches in India  in the last 5 years. Why is this point not recognised by Manju while discussing wicket-taking ability of Shami at home  ?    ( Bhuvi ranks 2nd and 4th )

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=1;class=1;filter=advanced;host=6;orderby=bowling_strike_rate;qualmin1=5;qualval1=wickets;spanmin1=09+Dec+2012;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=1;class=1;filter=advanced;host=6;orderby=bowling_average;qualmin1=5;qualval1=wickets;spanmin1=09+Dec+2012;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

 

 

3. Our pacers need to take more 5-fers and 4-fers. I agree with that. They need to cut down the wide of 6th stump  deliveries drastically, I agree with that.

 

4.  Pacers need to target top of off-stump to top of 5th stump as their stock deliveries.  Attacking the stumps, as Manju suggests, will lead to a lot of leg-stump and down the leg deliveries. It may work somewhat on the low Asian pitches. In SA, England etc., off stump to 5th stump need to be attacked repeatedly. 

agreed.

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3 minutes ago, SK_IH said:

this idiot was unbearable at the start of game today,unnecessarily hyping up lankan start,even having orgasms at them taking singles,he was worse than cheerleader arnold :facepalm:

Did he wax eloquent about Pakistan, Afridi, Imran Khan, dietary habits of Pakistan, their strong grip yada yada? 

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