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Navdeep Saini bowling with genuine pace now

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3 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Guys, Khejroliya and Saini in one team, Shami in the other side... Do you think this is one of the finest set of fast bowlers in domestic cricket? And I am talking on a world level.

Shami is a world class bowler. Saini is best uncapped test prospect clearly.Not sure about Khejroliya.He was

hyped too much and not bowling the pace too match it.He's decent though.

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1 minute ago, ShebbySB said:

Shami is a world class bowler. Saini is best uncapped test prospect clearly.Not sure about Khejroliya.He was

hyped too much and not bowling the pace too match it.He's decent though.

Khejroliya is bowling short. He will learn with time. He can bowl much quicker, atleast 5k quicker than what he is doing now.

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This is some top class bowling by Saini. Pace,  bounce, accuracy,  seam movement both ways, reverse swing and maintaining good intensity even in the last spell of the day. This guy is a complete package. The most impressive thing about him is the zip the ball gets after pitching. 

Edited by Mosher

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8 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Guys, Khejroliya and Saini in one team, Shami in the other side... Do you think this is one of the finest set of fast bowlers in domestic cricket? And I am talking on a world level.

many yrs back baroda had zaheer, rakesh patel, irfan ,later mumbai had zaheer, ajit, munaf ,salvi even santosh saxena was sharp

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3 minutes ago, bhakum20 said:

He is classed as Right Arm Medium on cricinfo.... :blink:

 

Sounds like after this spell he would be upgraded.

 

Great FC average too!

Even Bumrah despite playing internationals for couple of years now is given as Right Arm Medium.

 

Sanjay Manjrekar is the Brand Ambassador and Chief Admin of Cricinfo, so all Indian player profiles and news goes through his keen eyes.

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1 minute ago, chapetmarunga said:

To get selected iin the national team you have to be consistent. Let's see how he performs in the finals vs a good batting team like Kar.

FC average of 24 does tell you that he has been consistent

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1 hour ago, Mosher said:

This is some top class bowling by Saini. Pace,  bounce, accuracy,  seam movement both ways, reverse swing and maintaining good intensity even in the last spell of the day. This guy is a complete package. The most impressive thing about him is the zip the ball gets after pitching. 

Saini is certainly knocking at the doors if not selected it will be huge disappoint ment on selectors part.He reminds me of a Dale Steyn bowling with pace clocked 144k today which is clearly 147-148 k on loi speedguns...Selectors should take note of this ..this can be era defining moment for India ....a good pool of genuine fast bowlers who can make India one of the greatest when unleashed I pray selectors notice this lot of fast bowlers

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8 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I am not so sure I will be replacing Yadav yet? Yadav has been erratic this season but he definitely deserved to go  SA.

I have not seen this type of bowling from him even in Ranji this season.

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10 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

I have not seen this type of bowling from him even in Ranji this season.

If I was a selector , I am picking Yadav for SA tour for sure. I don't think selection for SA in my view is wrong.Just saw highlights of Saini and I will still pick Yadav. if the ball does not swing what will Saini do what are his other weapons, I don't think he has more pace than Yadav.

 

Is it SG ball they are using or Kookaburra.

 

If Saini whose odd ball touched 144 is genuine pace what is pace of Cummins, Starc and Hazelwood called.

Edited by putrevus

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Just watched the highlights. What I really liked Saini got all of his wickets as bowled. This is really good to know and seems like he is a thinking bowler. We have something similar in Shami. I just hope Indian selectors choose him in right format, which is test. We can hope of him getting selected for English tour. On contrary, Saini will now get huge sum in IPL auction, will be over-bowled there which can affect his bowling.

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16 minutes ago, putrevus said:

If I was a selector , I am picking Yadav for SA tour for sure. I don't think selection for SA in my view is wrong.Just saw highlights of Saini and I will still pick Yadav. if the ball does not swing what will Saini do what are his other weapons, I don't think he has more pace than Yadav.

 

Is it SG ball they are using or Kookaburra.

 

If Saini whose odd ball touched 144 is genuine pace what is pace of Cummins, Starc and Hazelwood called.

yadav's pace is not what it used to be.

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He bowled brilliantly against Aussies in the practise game as well where he go Warner with a bouncer and Renshaw caught at slips. You can see the two dismissals at 0:43 and 1:36 in the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX-nW27CAow

 

He seams the ball both ways even in India, imagine what he can do in overseas conditions with his pace and extra bounce.

 

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9 minutes ago, renjith said:

Worst fear is selectors picking this guy for t20. If selecting he must be picked for tests.

I feel so. Currently, we pick bowlers in shorter format and then graduate them to tests, which proves wrong for some bowlers. See Siraj. He was carted away in his debut match, but had he been tested against Sri Lanka in tests, it would have boosted his confidence. I can't get we played likes of Abhimanyu Mithun and Vinay Kumar (Vinay debuted in Perth) in tests as debut but these better prospects are thrown to T20s. Something really wrong there in management or selectors. At most, they should start with ODIs where bowlers have some relief. 

 

Similarly in batting, Pant was given opportunity at number 5/6 in T20s whereas had he given ODI cap before that, results could have been different because new player can have more time to adjust in international arena. 

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I watched a little bit of the match and it seems to me that he is cleverer than both Ishant and Umesh 

like at this moment if kohli takes a spot decision during a break from his honeymoon and wants to play the uncapped Navdeep as third seamer ahead of Ishant and shami for the saffer tests, I would completely agree. 

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1 hour ago, putrevus said:

If I was a selector , I am picking Yadav for SA tour for sure. I don't think selection for SA in my view is wrong.Just saw highlights of Saini and I will still pick Yadav. if the ball does not swing what will Saini do what are his other weapons, I don't think he has more pace than Yadav.

 

Is it SG ball they are using or Kookaburra.

 

If Saini whose odd ball touched 144 is genuine pace what is pace of Cummins, Starc and Hazelwood called.

Cummins, Starc, Hazlewood were mostly bowling in 138-144 k range too. He did the same too.

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^ Yeah good point Temujin, ATM Kohli is honeymooning, Shastri is probably drunk & selectors have already selected a squad for SA tour. And delhi dont have a cheerleading squad like Mumbai do. Even if he performs well in the finals, it will not be noticed. So he'll have to keep performing in this manner.

Edited by chapetmarunga

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16 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Cummins, Starc, Hazlewood were mostly bowling in 138-144 k range too. He did the same too.

 You must be joking if you are seriously equating Avg Saini's speed to those three.Hazelood was slower last year but he too has added that extra speed this season.What about  bounce and length. 

 

image.png.84a02a149300b562edfb6c51c22a6312.png

 

Can Saini get the pace of Woakes and Woakes is taller, Saini to be looks more a floater than hit the deck bowler which is natural for a shorter bowler.

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5 minutes ago, putrevus said:

 You must be joking if you are seriously equating Avg Saini's speed to those three.Hazelood was slower last year but he too has added that extra speed this season.What about  bounce and length. 

 

image.png.84a02a149300b562edfb6c51c22a6312.png

 

Can Saini get the pace of Woakes and Woakes is taller, Saini to be looks more a floater than hit the deck bowler which is natural for a shorter bowler.

Saini is not short. he is 6' 1" so is Woakes. I have watched Woakes and he was barely crossing 135K and it is the average pace that matters more than the one off quickest delivery and then consistent along with that. Apart from Starc, no one has an average pace more than 85-86 mph. The best thing about Saini is the back spin he impart on the ball. One poster mentioned his wobbly seam and I observed it today and it was back spin that was making the ball wobble in the air which helped him get that zip of the pitch. It might wobbly but he was still hitting the seam and getting movement off the seam.

 

No one is saying Saini can match Starc or Hazlewood but until we give them chance, we wont know.

 

I was the biggest supporter of Umesh here, but I have no hope from him anymore. He still has the tendency to bowl like a complete rookie even in Ranji trophy games.

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1 hour ago, putrevus said:

If I was a selector , I am picking Yadav for SA tour for sure. I don't think selection for SA in my view is wrong.Just saw highlights of Saini and I will still pick Yadav. if the ball does not swing what will Saini do what are his other weapons, I don't think he has more pace than Yadav.

 

Is it SG ball they are using or Kookaburra.

 

If Saini whose odd ball touched 144 is genuine pace what is pace of Cummins, Starc and Hazelwood called.

Cummins,Hazelwood bowl with pace but they are by no means genuine express infact Ishant and Yadav out bowled them in pace in recent Ind Aus test series in Ind.Saini is young he has pace and can become a good fast bowling spearhead in test which Ind has been craving for long.I repeat he reminds me of Dale Steyn ,same skidiness ....who knows what a gem he can be or what an element he can be of a pack which has good quality genuine pace which I see Ind is going to have in foreseeable future if and only if selectors do their job

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1 hour ago, putrevus said:

If I was a selector , I am picking Yadav for SA tour for sure. I don't think selection for SA in my view is wrong.Just saw highlights of Saini and I will still pick Yadav. if the ball does not swing what will Saini do what are his other weapons, I don't think he has more pace than Yadav.

 

Is it SG ball they are using or Kookaburra.

 

If Saini whose odd ball touched 144 is genuine pace what is pace of Cummins, Starc and Hazelwood called.

also, even if we consider difference in pace. suppose Saini bowls 140, Yadav 145. I will take a more accurate 140 bowler over an inconsistent 145 bowler.

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2 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Saini is not short. he is 6' 1" so is Woakes. I have watched Woakes and he was barely crossing 135K and it is the average pace that matters more than the one off quickest delivery and then consistent along with that. Apart from Starc, no one has an average pace more than 85-86 mph. The best thing about Saini is the back spin he impart on the ball. One poster mentioned his wobbly seam and I observed it today and it was back spin that was making the ball wobble in the air which helped him get that zip of the pitch. It might wobbly but he was still hitting the seam and getting movement off the seam.

 

No one is saying Saini can match Starc or Hazlewood but until we give them chance, we wont know.

 

I was the biggest supporter of Umesh here, but I have no hope from him anymore. He still has the tendency to bowl like a complete rookie even in Ranji trophy games.

I don't know what you have watched.

The graph I posted has highest speed and also avg speed. All the Australian bowlers are 86 and above avg speeds.Woakes is just below 86 avg speed. 

 

Umesh was excellent last year on docile pitches and I don't think he needs to get raw deal of not playing in pitches suited for him.

 

My point is Saini is not someone for which you discard guy like Yadav.

 

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On 12/17/2017 at 8:02 AM, fineleg said:

Should go on SA-tour as nets bowler - but won't be able to, due to Ranji Assignment. (Ankit Rajpoot going instead). Cricinfo shows "Right arm Medium" - thats usually lesser than the 136-144 mentioned in this thread?

Just curious - are there any Rt/left Fast Medium or Rt/left Fast - in Indian domestic cricket?

you should stop looking at cricinfo classifications or cricinfo althogether, i dont except for stats guru.

 

They will list every Indian bowler as medium. even Umesh and Shami are fast medium lol.even after them clocking 148 in test matches in day 4-5.

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17 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I don't know what you have watched.

The graph I posted has highest speed and also avg speed. All the Australian bowlers are 86 and above avg speeds.Woakes is just below 86 avg speed. 

 

Umesh was excellent last year on docile pitches and I don't think he needs to get raw deal of not playing in pitches suited for him.

 

My point is Saini is not someone for which you discard guy like Yadav.

 

 

Yes, Saini is someone for who we can certainly discard Yadav and i am talking about him for last 2-3 years, not just after today's game.

 

Regarding those speeds. those top speeds are more like errors and not actual speeds. Woakes 92 mph, is this a joke. I watched games and i dont need to watch the graphs. He was struggling to cross 135-136 let alone hitting 92 mph. Accoding to me, his average pace of what i watched was 83 mph at best. Hazelwood and Cummins bowled at an average speed of 86 mph.  I dont think even Starc bowled consistently over 145. England bowlers were around 132-138 most of the times. Aussies were around 138-144. 

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1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

 

Yes, Saini is someone for who we can certainly discard Yadav and i am talking about him for last 2-3 years, not just after today's game.

 

Regarding those speeds. those top speeds are more like errors and not actual speeds. Woakes 92 mph, is this a joke. I watched games and i dont need to watch the graphs. He was struggling to cross 135-136 let alone hitting 92 mph. Accoding to me, his average pace of what i watched was 83 mph at best. Hazelwood and Cummins bowled at an average speed of 86 mph.  I dont think even Starc bowled consistently over 145. England bowlers were around 132-138 most of the times. Aussies were around 138-144. 

These speeds I didn't make it up, these are posted on BBC .What you watched I have no idea but Woakes is faster than Saini too and last year before his injury Woakes was pretty fast high 80s to early 90s.

 

For me if I have vote I would still vote for Yadav at least for SA.

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26 minutes ago, putrevus said:

These speeds I didn't make it up, these are posted on BBC .What you watched I have no idea but Woakes is faster than Saini too and last year before his injury Woakes was pretty fast high 80s to early 90s.

 

For me if I have vote I would still vote for Yadav at least for SA.

Yes, Woakes was faster last year, but not now. he was effective too when he was fast but is ineffective now. to be honest, Saini looked quicker than the speed guns showed. These speed in domestic not always give the most accurate readings.  Siraj was who was bowling in high 130s in Ranji trophy last year was clocked 140-145K in IPL.

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29 minutes ago, putrevus said:

These speeds I didn't make it up, these are posted on BBC .What you watched I have no idea but Woakes is faster than Saini too and last year before his injury Woakes was pretty fast high 80s to early 90s.

 

For me if I have vote I would still vote for Yadav at least for SA.

woakes was definitely faster last yr.

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1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

Yes, Woakes was faster last year, but not now. he was effective too when he was fast but is ineffective now. to be honest, Saini looked quicker than the speed guns showed. These speed in domestic not always give the most accurate readings.  Siraj was who was bowling in high 130s in Ranji trophy last year was clocked 140-145K in IPL.

Siraj looked he was trundling in t20s may be because it was his debut but he was no where bowling express.

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27 minutes ago, putrevus said:

These speeds I didn't make it up, these are posted on BBC .What you watched I have no idea but Woakes is faster than Saini too and last year before his injury Woakes was pretty fast high 80s to early 90s.

 

For me if I have vote I would still vote for Yadav at least for SA.

Australian speed guns are always 3-4 kph quicker than average. Starc and Cummins are definitely quicker than Saini but certainly not Woakes or any other English bowler for that matter. Saini is more or less in the Hazelwood range. Don't forget every Indian bowler be it Ishant or Umesh has clocked their highest speeds in Australia.

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1 hour ago, putrevus said:

 You must be joking if you are seriously equating Avg Saini's speed to those three.Hazelood was slower last year but he too has added that extra speed this season.What about  bounce and length. 

 

image.png.84a02a149300b562edfb6c51c22a6312.png

 

Can Saini get the pace of Woakes and Woakes is taller, Saini to be looks more a floater than hit the deck bowler which is natural for a shorter bowler.

 

Simon Doull was explaining speed readings.

 

Three speed-guns are used to measure the speed of every delivery in international matches.  The speed readings vary quite a bit at times for the same delivery .

 

Most countries use the middle reading.

 

Australia uses the highest reading  ( which is why pacers like Ishant and Siddle bowled 152 k in Australia ). These speeds shown above are the highest-of-3-speeds too.

 

The same English pacers were bowling slower than Indian pacers in India.  Australians were just as quick as our pacers barring Starc.

 

As of today Saini will perhaps bowl a bit quicker than Woakes if bowling in the same match .... and both are similar height.

 

 

 

Edited by express bowling

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43 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Regarding those speeds. those top speeds are more like errors and not actual speeds. Woakes 92 mph, is this a joke. I watched games and i dont need to watch the graphs. He was struggling to cross 135-136 let alone hitting 92 mph. Accoding to me, his average pace of what i watched was 83 mph at best. Hazelwood and Cummins bowled at an average speed of 86 mph.  I dont think even Starc bowled consistently over 145. England bowlers were around 132-138 most of the times. Aussies were around 138-144. 

 

My observations are very similar 

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16 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Simon Doull was explaining speed readings.

 

Three speed-guns are used to measure the speed of every delivery in international matches.  The speed readings vary quite a bit at times for the same delivery .

 

Most countries use the middle reading.

 

Australia uses the highest reading  ( which is why pacers like Ishant and Siddle bowled 152 k in Australia ). These speeds shown above are the highest-of-3-speeds too.

 

The same English pacers were bowling slower than Indian pacers in India.  Australians were just as quick as our pacers barring Starc.

 

As of today Saini will perhaps bowl a bit quicker than Woakes if bowling in the same match .... and both are similar height.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

16 minutes ago, express bowling said:

What gun does south Africa use. 

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1 hour ago, Suhaan said:

Cummins,Hazelwood bowl with pace but they are by no means genuine express infact Ishant and Yadav out bowled them in pace in recent Ind Aus test series in Ind.

Exactly

 

Infact, Hazlewood often bowls 130 k to 140 k  when not in Australia.

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