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Sachin's 241 not out vs Cook's 244 not out -Which is better?

Which innings is better?  

32 members have voted

  1. 1. Which innings is better?

    • Sachin's 241 not out
    • Cook's 244 not out


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As the title says.I am reading lot of over the top praise for Cook's innings ,when the fact is it is being played when the series is gone and so redundant in context of the series..

Sachin's innings of comparative score comes to mind,played in same country but when the series was evenly placed and the pressure was still on. Sachin's innings considering the circumstance was far better than this innings of Cook.

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Cook even has 294 vs India and 263 away.. Sachin never crossed 250 in his life :phehe:

 

Anyway

 

Cook innings was much better.. He did it under pressure when Media is asking for him to be dropped. That pitch was tough like tric explained unlike a flat track bully like sachin:facepalm:

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Sachin's inns. India was on the verge of creating history by being the first Asian team  in AUS  to win a series there.Sachin who was under tremendous pressure to score(being terribly out of form) rose to the occasion so emphatically.And Sachin's inns came against a slightly better attack.More over that was an Asian batsman scoring a double in AUS(spinning conditions) which is more difficult compared to an English man(coming from far more similar conditions).Cook too was out of form, but the series was already lost is the key issue here

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54 minutes ago, Gollum said:

2004 Sydney Aus bowling attack was pedestrian, Cook's marginally ahead even though it came in a dead rubber. 

how that attack was pedestrian with lee, Gillepsie and McGill. Both attack has/had 3 good bowlers. Bird is ordinary and Cummins too looked tired in this game. So, this game Aussie had only three good bowlers in Hazlewood, Cummins and Lyon while Cummins looked like playing with some niggle.

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15 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

Sachin's inns. India was on the verge of creating history by being the first Asian team  in AUS  to win a series there.Sachin who was under tremendous pressure to score(being terribly out of form) rose to the occasion so emphatically.And Sachin's inns came against a slightly better attack.More over that was an Asian batsman scoring a double in AUS(spinning conditions) which is more difficult compared to an English man(coming from far more similar conditions).Cook too was out of form, but the series was already lost is the key issue here

Most of the times we give less credit for a subcontinent batsman playing well in subcontinent saying that they are home pitches etc. Cook doing well in Australia too is similar when there is no bounce in the pitch.

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41 minutes ago, Vk1 said:

Most of the times we give less credit for a subcontinent batsman playing well in subcontinent saying that they are home pitches etc. Cook doing well in Australia too is similar when there is no bounce in the pitch.

yes.. the reason might be that all the countries are very near to one another.On the other hand, with AUS,ENG,SAF,NZL it is not so the

case except AUS/NZL. But yet it can't be denied that 'generally being fast friendly' is the trait in these countries just as ' spin friendly' is the case with sub continental nations

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Sachin total made 241+60 = 301 not out in that match. We were on verge of victory but steve waugh did not let it happen. Sachin like cook too was out of form. It wasnt a dead rubber and we were close to a historical victory after his innings.

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1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

how that attack was pedestrian with lee, Gillepsie and McGill. Both attack has/had 3 good bowlers. Bird is ordinary and Cummins too looked tired in this game. So, this game Aussie had only three good bowlers in Hazlewood, Cummins and Lyon while Cummins looked like playing with some niggle.

2 hours ago, King Tendulkar said:

Lee and Gillespie Pedistrian ? Hate statement ?

I meant what I said. Gillespie came back from an injury and struggled with fitness throughout that match. Lee was a **** test bowler back then, he only improved in the 2005-06 period...great white ball bowler though. Macgill was awful against us, always soiled his pants against half decent playrs of spin. This attack has Hazlewood (modern avatar of Mcgrath), Cummins (already better than Blonde Lee LOL ) and Lyon (number one spinner this year).  Bracken was a worse red ball bowler than Mitchell Marsh :phehe:, forget Bird. That 2003 Aussie team had a brilliant batting line up but with no Mcgrath-Warne and an unfit Gillespie that was a piss poor bowling attack. A fully fit Aussie bowling line up came back to India the same year and showed us how lucky we were in our tour there. 

 

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2 hours ago, Gollum said:

2004 Sydney Aus bowling attack was pedestrian, Cook's marginally ahead even though it came in a dead rubber. 

I see that Bot upvoted you, your 

accout got hacked by  malware Bot @Rasgulla or what?? :phehe: On any given day that bowling attack is not pedestrian my friend especially McGill on Sydney wicket which always offer some turn , the guy is most underrated spinner in the history of cricket its sad that he had to compete with legend Shane warne for spot otherwise  would have went down as one of the greatest in the history.

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2 hours ago, speedheat said:

Look at the bowling attack of Australia when sachin scored 241, Lee Gillespie bracken and mcgil so sachin for me, and for cooks inning I have only one answer NO STARC!!! 

Bhai Starc is a theek thaak red cherry bowler, nothing suggests he will get into the ATG category there. In the famous 2003 series the legendary Mcgrath, perennial nemesis of Indian cricket, didn't play a single match. And I think even you will agree that Mcgrath is a contender for the GOAT pace bowler. And in spite of being a Sachin bhakt I admit that Mcgrath had a grip over him his entire career, I have never been more scared of another bowler against our batsmen. 

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29 minutes ago, Anoop K said:

Sachin total made 241+60 = 301 not out in that match. We were on verge of victory but steve waugh did not let it happen. Sachin like cook too was out of form. It wasnt a dead rubber and we were close to a historical victory after his innings.

More than that Parthiv dropped Gillespie at  the most crucial stage of that match.Ganguly's tactics of declaring too early didn't help either.With India placed at  650/5 at the  start of 3rd day morning  and Sachin,Parthiv,Irfan,Kumble & Agarkar to bat, the need of the hour was to bat on  as long as possible with out any pressure. But Australia just about escaped because of the above drawbacks .

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1 minute ago, speedheat said:

I see that Bot upvoted you, your 

accout got hacked by  malware Bot @Rasgulla or what?? :phehe: On any given day that bowling attack is not pedestrian my friend especially McGill on Sydney wicket which always offer some turn , the guy is most underrated spinner in the history of cricket its sad that he had to compete with legend Shane warne for spot otherwise  would have went down as one of the greatest in the history.

Macgill is over rated who could never step up to be a lead bowler. He was a good side kick of Warne but whenever he had to bowl alone, he flunked. Lyon on the other hand is a lead spinner who can win test matches alone with no support. Lyon has made great strides this year and I won't hesitate to call him the greatest gora spinner since Warne's retirement, atm he and Swann are equal for me but if Lyon keeps this up for another 1-2 years he will surpass even Swann. 

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Sachin and its easy. Comparable bowling attack, comparable lack of form from both players in concern, but decisive reason : series was alive. This alone makes a huge difference, period. Dead rubber knocks are just that- dead rubber knocks when the winning team often doesn't go for the kill/is tired from giving it all + celebrating the win (emotional energy wise). 

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Haven't seen much of cook's innings but in terms of importance Sachin's 241 easily,it was a flawless knock in a massive decider against a decent but motivated attack. Cook has scored in a dead rubber and the aussies don't seem to give their 100% .

Both are quality knocks regardless 

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I see serious hate for English players (bar KP) on this forum. I admit they can rub the feathers the wrong way as far as attitude/behavior is concerned but let us give credit where due. Guys like Cook, Anderson, Swann and to a lesser extent Bell, Broad, Strauss, Root, Prior, Stokes, Trott are all high quality players. Just because they massacred us in the 2011-14 period, no need to be so bitter because we were also in transition and led by an inept person. The losses Eng inflicted on us in that 3 year period hurt me more than anything but that is the cycle of cricket, we gave them back a 4-0 last year when we were in top form with a peaking young team. Cook I know is close to SRT's record but I don't think he will overtake that tally.

 

Another thing I have noticed here is whenever someone gets near SRT's record that person (Ponting, Sanga, Kallis, Cook) automatically becomes the subject of hate here. Cook has the unfortunate distinction of being in that situation now and hence the constant undermining of his career. Let us not be so bitter, just because someone gets more runs than SRT does not mean they are better batsmen, what SRT did in the 90s is something only 2-3 in the entire history of cricket are capable of doing, none from the current era are that proficient. So many people have surpassed Viv in the ODIs run tally, does that mean the King is inferior to these 4 dozen batsmen ?

Edited by Gollum

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11 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Bhai Starc is a theek thaak red cherry bowler, nothing suggests he will get into the ATG category there. In the famous 2003 series the legendary Mcgrath, perennial nemesis of Indian cricket, didn't play a single match. And I think even you will agree that Mcgrath is a contender for the GOAT pace bowler. And in spite of being a Sachin bhakt I admit that Mcgrath had a grip over him his entire career, I have never been more scared of another bowler against our batsmen. 

I agree with McGrath part and how tendulkar struggled against him but the thing is starch got cook twice or thrice in this series cook must have really felt relaxed by not seeing him in this match and on top of that its a flat track so he  had to deal with only haz and Cummins as potential threats considering Lyon is not as effective on flat tracks and you really can't compare this dull Aussie side to that great Australian team who were just pack of hawks ready to conceal its talons to thrash its opposition so its  sachins 241 for me 

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17 minutes ago, Gollum said:

I meant what I said. Gillespie came back from an injury and struggled with fitness throughout that match. Lee was a **** test bowler back then, he only improved in the 2005-06 period...great white ball bowler though. Macgill was awful against us, always soiled his pants against half decent playrs of spin. This attack has Hazlewood (modern avatar of Mcgrath), Cummins (already better than Blonde Lee LOL ) and Lyon (number one spinner this year).  Bracken was a worse red ball bowler than Mitchell Marsh :phehe:, forget Bird. That 2003 Aussie team had a brilliant batting line up but with no Mcgrath-Warne and an unfit Gillespie that was a piss poor bowling attack. A fully fit Aussie bowling line up came back to India the same year and showed us how lucky we were in our tour there. 

 

Came back from  injury or not, has was fit enough to play in the match .Lee was more or less the same bowler,Mcgill awful means India played him well.A fully fit Aussie line up too got lucky in that 2004 tour because 1st test got washed out on the last day  where Aussies would have most probably lost.And in Nagpur they got one of the bounciest pitches for their liking.

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1 minute ago, speedheat said:

I agree with McGrath part and how tendulkar struggled against him but the thing is starch got cook twice or thrice in this series cook must have really felt relaxed by not seeing him in this match and on top of that its a flat track so he  had to deal with only haz and Cummins as potential threats considering Lyon is not as effective on flat tracks and you really can't compare this dull Aussie side to that great Australian team who were just pack of hawks ready to conceal its talons to thrash its opposition so its  sachins 241 for me 

SRT must have been as much relieved at not facing Mcgrath as Cook over here or may be even more, so that should cancel out. I think you are underestimating Lyon's bowling but it's ok, we needn't agree on everything, otherwise what's the point of a forum? I said Cook's innings is better but only marginally, you believe SRT's is better...let us agree to disagree on this matter :icflove:.

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2 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

Came back from  injury or not, has was fit enough to play in the match .Lee was more or less the same bowler,Mcgill awful means India played him well.A fully fit Aussie line up too got lucky in that 2004 tour because 1st test got washed out on the last day  where Aussies would have most probably lost.And in Nagpur they got one of the bounciest pitches for their liking.

Gillespie trundled along in SCG, I watched that match ball by ball. Lee was pathetic back then, Macgill never scared me like Lyon these days. Aussies weren't lucky in 2004, we were lucky to escape with 1-2 when they could have won 3-1 if not for last day washout in Chepauk. 

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13 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Gillespie trundled along in SCG, I watched that match ball by ball. Lee was pathetic back then, Macgill never scared me like Lyon these days. Aussies weren't lucky in 2004, we were lucky to escape with 1-2 when they could have won 3-1 if not for last day washout in Chepauk. 

Lee had 135 wickets in 36 test before that SCG test. he was not crap by any means.  The only thing was that he was coming back from a long injury lay off after WC 2003.

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1 hour ago, Gollum said:

I meant what I said. Gillespie came back from an injury and struggled with fitness throughout that match. Lee was a **** test bowler back then, he only improved in the 2005-06 period...great white ball bowler though. Macgill was awful against us, always soiled his pants against half decent playrs of spin. This attack has Hazlewood (modern avatar of Mcgrath), Cummins (already better than Blonde Lee LOL ) and Lyon (number one spinner this year).  Bracken was a worse red ball bowler than Mitchell Marsh :phehe:, forget Bird. That 2003 Aussie team had a brilliant batting line up but with no Mcgrath-Warne and an unfit Gillespie that was a piss poor bowling attack. A fully fit Aussie bowling line up came back to India the same year and showed us how lucky we were in our tour there. 

 

Your analysis is fine but if you start discounting bowlers saying they were not in the best of forms then you would only be left to remembering marquee series like ashes 2005 , ind AUS 2001 etc.. England's victory over us in 2012 was against an aged batting lineup, inexperienced bowlers? English rank that win pretty high.

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1 minute ago, Vk1 said:

Your analysis is fine but if you start discounting bowlers saying they were not in the best of forms then you would only be left to remembering marquee series like ashes 2005 , ind AUS 2001 etc.. England's victory over us in 2012 was against an aged batting lineup, inexperienced bowlers? English rank that win pretty high.

I am stating my pov. I rate SRT's 241 very highly, in my 1st post in this thread I just said that IMO Cook's is marginally better. I am not downplaying anything. I honestly believe both were top achievements and I have a personal preference. I don't mind if people rate SRT''s 241 higher. 

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4 minutes ago, Vk1 said:

Your analysis is fine but if you start discounting bowlers saying they were not in the best of forms then you would only be left to remembering marquee series like ashes 2005 , ind AUS 2001 etc.. England's victory over us in 2012 was against an aged batting lineup, inexperienced bowlers? English rank that win pretty high.

Same Cummins has been equally pedestrian this game, trundling most of the time.

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6 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Hazlewood and Cummins are better bowlers.

 

Lyon and McGill are at same level.

Cummins is not better than Brett Lee at the same stage. Cummins has 32 wickets after 8 tests at an average of 27. Brett Lee at 42 wickets in his first 7 tests at an average of 16. Brett Lee had started with a bang in test cricket.

Edited by rkt.india

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9 minutes ago, Gollum said:

I am stating my pov. I rate SRT's 241 very highly, in my 1st post in this thread I just said that IMO Cook's is marginally better. I am not downplaying anything. I honestly believe both were top achievements and I have a personal preference. I don't mind if people rate SRT''s 241 higher. 

you probably did not even watch SRT's innings.

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8 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Cummins is not better than Brett Lee at the same stage. Cummins has 32 wickets after 8 tests at an average of 27. Brett Lee at 42 wickets in his first 7 tests at an average of 16. Brett Lee had started with a bang in test cricket.

Yeah.These Aussie bowlers minus Starc do seem pedestrian at times. Especially Hazlewood and Lyon. 

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16 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Cummins is not better than Brett Lee at the same stage. Cummins has 32 wickets after 8 tests at an average of 27. Brett Lee at 42 wickets in his first 7 tests at an average of 16. Brett Lee had started with a bang in test cricket.

How was Blondie after his initial bang? I recall he was bang mediocre for most of his career after his good start. 

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Other than 24* and not out there is nothing in common. An odd comparison. First one was when Sachin was going through a bad patch because of his error in judgement outside the off stump. So he cut out those shots and played with discipline and constructed an innings brick by brick. He had the company of Laxman.  Cook, on the other hand, was also going through a bad patch. But context is different here. England has to salvage some pride or at the least avoid whitewash. There is nothing common between these two knocks.

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3 hours ago, Gollum said:

Gillespie trundled along in SCG, I watched that match ball by ball. Lee was pathetic back then, Macgill never scared me like Lyon these days. Aussies weren't lucky in 2004, we were lucky to escape with 1-2 when they could have won 3-1 if not for last day washout in Chepauk. 

I also watched the match live.if he struggled why they played him at the first place??I think the team management knew better about his physical fitness more than you and I.Isn't it?Lee was more or less the same bowler then too....blowing hot and cold thru out.Just check his cumulative average. It does not matter as to what you or me think about Mcgill, but the fact is that he averages much better than Lyon and when he played along with Warne he took more wickets than even Warne.

So you feel India would have not have chased down some 220 with all 10 wkts in hand?????Ok ...I think otherwise.It was comfortably

tilted in India's favour.Any way each to his own

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As many members already pointed out, the pressure factor itself tilts hugely in favour of Sachin.He was terribly out of form thru out the series,series deciding match and an once in a generation oppertunity,his own over all  legacy of being the best batsman would have severely damaged had he failed in that inns because then his stats in AUS would have taken a severe beating.... all these factors would have been going thru his mind.Yet he soaked the initial pressure and came out victorious.

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typical Alistair cook special: series already won for Aussies, post xmas, Australia's main bowler out injured, dropped catches x 3 and he amasses one of his classic scores. Credit to him, when the luck goes his way and everything is in his favour, he capitalises big and does not throw it away like Viru used to. Don't forget did nothing all series when his team needed him most. It would have served England better if instead of 243 in one innings he ammassed a KL Rahul esque 50 across 5 innings. Also look how the tailenders fared in this match. Stuart broad got a significant contribution...if your tail can get a milestone, shows its a flat wicket.  

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3 hours ago, Gollum said:

How was Blondie after his initial bang? I recall he was bang mediocre for most of his career after his good start. 

how most of his career matter. you are saying Cummins is better based on his first 8 tests. same way based on his first 8 tests Lee was better than Cummins. Cummins is not better than Brett Lee of any stage at this point. Brett Lee had 135 wickets in 36 tests before SCG test 2004. how is that mediocre, almost 4 wickets per test is not mediocre by any means. Many countries would have loved to have a lead bowler like Lee. India would certainly have. He was just overshadowed by greater bowlers in McGrath and Warne. James Anderson with under 4 wickets per test is the lead bowler of England.

Edited by rkt.india

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25 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

how most of his career matter. you are saying Cummins is better based on his first 8 tests. same way based on his first 8 tests Lee was better than Cummins. Cummins is not better than Brett Lee of any stage at this point. Brett Lee had 135 wickets in 36 tests before SCG test 2004. how is that mediocre, almost 4 wickets per test is not mediocre by any means. Many countries would have loved to have a lead bowler like Lee. India would certainly have. He was just overshadowed by greater bowlers in McGrath and Warne. James Anderson with under 4 wickets per test is the lead bowler of England.

Brett Lee was great in 1999-2000 when those 8 tests were played. In 2003-04 period he was struggling averaging a lot worse than what Cummins is averaging presently. 

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12 hours ago, speedheat said:

Look at the bowling attack of Australia when sachin scored 241, Lee Gillespie bracken and mcgil so sachin for me, and for cooks inning I have only one answer NO STARC!!! 

Lol I voted sachin but Lee and Gillespie weren't the main bowlers for that Aus side.

it was McGrath and Warne who didn't play

 

so saying No Starc isn't really saying much against cook...

 

bracken and mcgill were actually pedestrian

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