mancalledsting Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 (edited) Let me make the case in either direction: Ganguly For 1. Helped introduce/nurture multiple Indian ATGs: Harbhajan, Sehwag, Yuvraj, Zaheer 2. World Cup 2003 Finalist in unfamiliar conditions overseas 3. ICC Champions Trophy co winner 4. Defeated one of the best test sides ever 2-1 in 2001 5. Competitive overseas in tests: did well in England 2002 and Aus 2003 6. Retired with dignity 7. Better batsmen 8. Good tactician in tests 9. Left team Indian cricket in healthier condition than he found it Against 1. No World Cup Trophy 2. Batting tended to decline under captaincy 3. Poor standards of out fielding/running between the wickets and did not lead by example Dhoni For 1. World Cup winner on home soil 2. Excellent record in tests at home 3. Made WK/batting a prominent role in indian cricket 4. Ushered in Indian era of fearless batting 5. Helped India get rid of their nervousness at climatic stages in ODIs 6. Won overseas series vs NZ and drew vs South Africa 7. Better all-round player 8. Astute tactician in LOIs 9. Guided India's improvement in ground fielding/running between the wickets Against 1. Reduced Indian fast bowling to dark ages 2. Reduced Indian test cricket overseas to the dark ages (4-0 loss in England, 4-0 Loss in Australia, 3-1 loss in England) 3. Failed to adequately nurture some of the best talents in Indian cricket: Irfan, Rohit, Sreesanth, RP Singh, Ishant 4. Very political 5. Reduced status of test cricket in India 6. Delaying long overdue retirement, holding back next generation of cricketers 7. Clueless tactician in tests 8. Left Indian cricket in worse condition than he found it 9. Oversaw decline in Indian slip fielding I welcome any points I missed Edited January 2, 2018 by mancalledsting Shunya, adi B, tweaker and 6 others 3 4 2 Link to comment
Rasgulla Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 (edited) More like propaganda post More than anything.. I will end your thread with your "Ailiaaa" quote Edited January 2, 2018 by Rasgulla Shunya 1 Link to comment
mancalledsting Posted January 2, 2018 Author Share Posted January 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, Rasgulla said: More like propaganda post More than anything.. Apologies if this post in anyway undermines your hero MSD. Just waiting for you to bring Sachin into this post that has nothing to do with Sachin. sergio04 and Mosher 1 1 Link to comment
Rasgulla Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 10 minutes ago, mancalledsting said: Against 1. No World Cup Trophy 2. Batting tended to decline under captaincy 3. Poor standards of out fielding/running between the wickets and did not lead by example 1. Team game 2. Everyone's player declines with age.. Unless you are awful captain like sachin no excuses there.. 3. How is that his fault ? He got sachin,nehra and few other cricketers who are poor in field in general.. With Yuvi and kaif coming in as youngsters it kind of changed. Link to comment
Rasgulla Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, mancalledsting said: Apologies if this post in anyway undermines your hero MSD. Just waiting for you to bring Sachin into this post that has nothing to do with Sachin. Why he is not a player ? He was part of squad.If thats what you want...Wish fullfilled.. Edited January 2, 2018 by Rasgulla Link to comment
Ankit_sharma03 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Will choose Dhoni as Odi captain and none in test cricket. Ganguly dnt warrent a place in all time test 11 as player 1st ....so he cant be the captain Rest some point are blatnetly wrong dhoni- Kohli, dhawan, rohit, bhuvi, ashwin, jadeja, vijay, pandya, bumrah, raina.........introduced or nurtured.... where is this point. Slip fielding cant be put on captain.......thats a cultural change in fielding Cant blame sreesanth, irfan , rp had attitude isssue on dhoni. Rohit was made a Odi beast his decision n backing How do u blame ishant problem on him, ishant changed his action n wrist position Made tough calls to drop many seniors Infact had rahul been under him he wud have gotten far more proper chances Against ganguly He was damn political, the whole chappell saga (wo koi dhudh ka dhula nhin tha) Ganguly retired with diginty, No .....he retired with a grudge Better batsman then whom????? Bought a better culture in Indian cricket of senior n junior Emphasis on foreign coaches which was very important at that time Made dravid a keeper which i think helped his batting Help us develop an attitude to look in the eye of the opposition Add dhoni, nehra name in that list of player given a chance by ganguly Yuvraj n dhoni nurturing credit shud also go to chappell n dravid. Bumrah , pandya have been well backed n continued under kohli as well . Rasgulla and diehardpacer 2 Link to comment
velu Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 adi B, Rasgulla, diehardpacer and 2 others 5 Link to comment
maniac Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Ganguly and it’s not even close sergio04 1 Link to comment
Trichromatic Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 27 minutes ago, mancalledsting said: Let me make the case in either direction: Ganguly For 1. Helped introduce/nurture multiple Indian ATGs: Harbhajan, Sehwag, Yuvraj, Zaheer 2. World Cup 2003 Finalist in unfamiliar conditions overseas 3. ICC Champions Trophy co winner 4. Defeated one of the best test sides ever 2-1 in 2001 5. Competitive overseas in tests: did well in England 2002 and Aus 2003 6. Retired with dignity 7. Better batsmen 8. Good tactician in tests 9. Left team Indian cricket in healthier condition than he found it Against 1. No World Cup Trophy 2. Batting tended to decline under captaincy 3. Poor standards of out fielding/running between the wickets and did not lead by example Dhoni For 1. World Cup winner on home soil 2. Excellent record in tests at home 3. Made WK/batting a prominent role in indian cricket 4. Ushered in Indian era of fearless batting 5. Helped India get rid of their nervousness at climatic stages in ODIs 6. Won overseas series vs NZ and drew vs South Africa 7. Better all-round player 8. Astute tactician in LOIs 9. Guided India's improvement in ground fielding/running between the wickets Against 1. Reduced Indian fast bowling to dark ages 2. Reduced Indian test cricket overseas to the dark ages (4-0 loss in England, 4-0 Loss in Australia, 3-1 loss in England) 3. Failed to adequately nurture some of the best talents in Indian cricket: Irfan, Rohit, Sreesanth, RP Singh, Ishant 4. Very political 5. Reduced status of test cricket in India 6. Delaying long overdue retirement, holding back next generation of cricketers 7. Clueless tactician in tests 8. Left Indian cricket in worse condition than he found it 9. Oversaw decline in Indian slip fielding I welcome any points I missed Most of those against Dhoni are subjective. Rasgulla and Laaloo 1 1 Link to comment
mancalledsting Posted January 2, 2018 Author Share Posted January 2, 2018 12 minutes ago, Rasgulla said: Why he is not a player ? He was part of squad.If thats what you want...Wish fullfilled.. yeah he is a player, but theres a concept called 'staying on topic' and not drifting on tangential points. That's why forums have separate threads. Link to comment
Rasgulla Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 (edited) 35 minutes ago, mancalledsting said: Against 1. Reduced Indian fast bowling to dark ages 2. Reduced Indian test cricket overseas to the dark ages (4-0 loss in England, 4-0 Loss in Australia, 3-1 loss in England) 3. Failed to adequately nurture some of the best talents in Indian cricket: Irfan, Rohit, Sreesanth, RP Singh, Ishant 4. Very political 5. Reduced status of test cricket in India 6. Delaying long overdue retirement, holding back next generation of cricketers 7. Clueless tactician in tests 8. Left Indian cricket in worse condition than he found it 9. Oversaw decline in Indian slip fielding 1. What exactly has he done to reduce fast bowling ? Can't really help if you have players like Umesh yadav and Varun Aaron who leaks runs at consistent rate.. than picking wicks. 2. Having old players like sachin and few others doesn't help him.. past by expiry date still doesn't want to leave the squad.. Once they were finally shown the door.. It takes time for Dhawan, Rohit, kohli, pujara, Rahane and rest to settle. 3. Poor Irfan was kicked around by Chappell saab.. Sree was part of WC2011 squad after that he got into his fixing thing. RP did well in 2007T20WC and Rohit life was changed after Dhoni promoted him to no.1 in ODIs.. Ridiculous point.. It's like me asking why didn't saurab improve mongia 4. Indeed gave way too much time for Oldies to settle to fulfill their personal milestones.. should gave kicked them out earlier 5. Yep he was the reason for Tsunami and Earthquakes as well. 6. Holding back mighty players like pant who aren't even ready to even make it into A squad yet.. 7. So clueless that he was the first ever captain to take India to #1 in Tests 8. When he took over India had 1 WC.. When he left India has All ICC trophies.. Every team fans dream of this so called "worse condition" 9. Yep he puts butter in Kohli's and Dhawan's hand.. Still didn't under till day why he does such a thing.. This guy is hilarious Edited January 2, 2018 by Rasgulla Shunya and diehardpacer 1 1 Link to comment
maniac Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 this was the Worst thing I ever saw in a test match involving India and as a fan I have witnessed some dismal performances and some heartbreaks...this was the most disgusting thing ever... LordPrabhzy, Laaloo, Mosher and 5 others 2 1 4 1 Link to comment
Sgattick10 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Ganguly esp his captaincy on foreign conditions is much better then Dhoni. raki05 and mancalledsting 2 Link to comment
Cricketics Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Ganguly used to back his players well, however Dhoni in his prime as captain was more shrewd than anyone I have seen and in particular more attentive. I missed that part of Dhoni's captaincy in the later stages of his career but he was really innovative in the first part of his captaincy career. Ganguly had his principles and no no eff attitude which might sound smart and handsome like keeping Steve Waugh waiting for the toss, but to me was pathetic attitude for an international captain, and it reeks of grudge filled attitude from Ganguly. Dhoni in this way I felt must have been better and probably did not show any grudge ever and must have been more easy to approach. Dhoni in his prime is ahead for me over Ganguly. Link to comment
mancalledsting Posted January 2, 2018 Author Share Posted January 2, 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: Will choose Dhoni as Odi captain and none in test cricket. Ganguly dnt warrent a place in all time test 11 as player 1st ....so he cant be the captain Rest some point are blatnetly wrong dhoni- Kohli, dhawan, rohit, bhuvi, ashwin, jadeja, vijay, pandya, bumrah, raina.........introduced or nurtured.... where is this point. Slip fielding cant be put on captain.......thats a cultural change in fielding Cant blame sreesanth, irfan , rp had attitude isssue on dhoni. Rohit was made a Odi beast his decision n backing How do u blame ishant problem on him, ishant changed his action n wrist position Made tough calls to drop many seniors if above is true, you're basically you're saying there is no point in a captain? Its just a token position. In spite of Rohit's good ODI performances, the Indian cricket fraternity expected him to be so much more and to this day remains a talent unfulfilled. I think Kohli developed in spite of Dhoni, not because of him. With Kohli's attitude and dedication, would have even developed under Azhar. Ganguly's students all praise him and attribute their success to him. Don't see similar praise for Dhoni. Edited January 2, 2018 by mancalledsting Shunya, express bowling, Rasgulla and 2 others 1 2 2 Link to comment
mancalledsting Posted January 2, 2018 Author Share Posted January 2, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Trichromatic said: Most of those against Dhoni are subjective. lot of them widely agreed upon by commentators/experts outside of BCCI/Srni mama chamcha circle Edited January 2, 2018 by mancalledsting Rasgulla 1 Link to comment
Ankit_sharma03 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Just now, mancalledsting said: if above is true, you're basically you're saying there is no point in a captain? Its just a token position. In some cases yes Sreesanth was an A-grade idiot under anyone. shud i show clips under yuvraj singh in IPL, he was caught in spot fixing under dravid One thing was comman he himself for an A-grade idiot RP- he gained weight, dhoni emphasised on fitness. Now if Safraz gains fitness wud u blame kohli Just now, mancalledsting said: In spite of Rohit's good ODI performances, the Indian cricket fraternity expected him to be so much more. So dhoni wasnt suppouse to teach him bat, if u give him a gaali for rohit then give him credit to make kohli a world beater. So BS Kohli made himself what he is and so did rohit, captain job is to give chances n confidence which was given same to both Uske aage player pe hai Just now, mancalledsting said: I think Kohli developed in spite of Dhoni, not because of him. With Kohli's attitude and dedication, would have even developed under Azhar. Any player will do well if he has the will Just now, mancalledsting said: Ganguly's students all praise him and attribute their success to him. Don't see similar praise for Dhoni. Please go n check ur facts then ........ Rasgulla 1 Link to comment
Rasgulla Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 9 minutes ago, maniac said: this was the Worst thing I ever saw in a test match involving India and as a fan I have witnessed some dismal performances and some heartbreaks...this was the most disgusting thing ever... So disgusting that he got KP out . . . . . . . . . Drs saved him diehardpacer 1 Link to comment
Rasgulla Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 9 minutes ago, mancalledsting said: Ganguly's students all praise him and attribute their success to him. Don't see similar praise for Dhoni. His biggest student said this about him.. Shunya and diehardpacer 2 Link to comment
mancalledsting Posted January 2, 2018 Author Share Posted January 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: In some cases yes Sreesanth was an A-grade idiot under anyone. shud i show clips under yuvraj singh in IPL, he was caught in spot fixing under dravid One thing was comman he himself for an A-grade idiot RP- he gained weight, dhoni emphasised on fitness. Now if Safraz gains fitness wud u blame kohli So dhoni wasnt suppouse to teach him bat, if u give him a gaali for rohit then give him credit to make kohli a world beater. So BS Kohli made himself what he is and so did rohit, captain job is to give chances n confidence which was given same to both Uske aage player pe hai Any player will do well if he has the will Please go n check ur facts then ........ Sreesanth under Dravid did well, part of captaincy is managing your big personalities. RP was a gun bowler, how could we let him waste away? I already acknowledge that Dhoni gave Team India calmness in clutch moments in ODIs. Apart from politics, what else can Dhoni possibly teach Kohli? Can my grade 9 maths teach teach Stephen Hawking? Look at the calibre of the two batsmen FFS! please provide some facts, political statements by players like Yuz Chahal who want to further their own careers when they've barely known Dhoni for two days aside. Shunya, Rasgulla and sergio04 1 2 Link to comment
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