zen Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 and had to impose 5 strict rules to improve India, what would they be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 1. One child policy 2. UCC 3. Death sentence should be used liberally, 1000s of vermin (esp terrorists, rapists, pedophiles, murderers, gangsters, various types of mafia) need to be hanged every year and not 1 in 4 years 4. Education will be very high on my agenda, will spend 10% of budget on education and not a measly 1% 5. Will fund the Forest Dept heavily, will strive to get 33% forest cover ASAP.....Indian Forest Service will be empowered and be placed above all other services. 5 is too less yaar. adi B, zen and beetle 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 2 hours ago, Gollum said: 1. One child policy One child policy doesn't work. Sooner or later, you end up with a demographic crunch, where the 65+ population is way bigger ratio than the <65 (aka working population) is supposed to be, for a healthy economy. Look, population control, enforced, is a bad idea. But there is a very easy way to control population and it has been done over and over and over again in many countries : female emancipation. Countries where women are treated equal to men and don't have 'matronly expectations' (i.e., its ok for a woman to not get married and have kids), their birth rates have plummeted. This is probably the *one* good thing about communism and where communism was way ahead of the west : giving females control over their own bodies. 2 hours ago, Gollum said: 2. UCC Agreed. has to happen. 2 hours ago, Gollum said: 3. Death sentence should be used liberally, 1000s of vermin (esp terrorists, rapists, pedophiles, murderers, gangsters, various types of mafia) need to be hanged every year and not 1 in 4 years Disagree. Death penalty is archaic and has no place in a civilized society. Neither does it do anything to deter crime (otherwise USA, the western nation with the most death penalty carry-outs, wouldn't have the highest crime rate in the western world). Its far better to incarcerate and hold them for life : this serves two advantages : A) it gives opportunity for justice system (which is not perfect anywhere), to rectify its mistakes. Once you kill someone, even if 30 years later new evidence says they are innocent, well you cannot undo it. B) It works far better for the jihadi types : jihadis are WILLING to die, so they can go meet Allah and Jannat and all that nonsense. Well, makes sure that they don't get to meet their imaginary sky-friend anytime soon and instead will have to live their entire lives wondering what-if. 2 hours ago, Gollum said: 4. Education will be very high on my agenda, will spend 10% of budget on education and not a measly 1% Agreed. And our education model needs an overhaul. Blind mugging is the name of the game in India and it benefits no one. Also, Indians, especially educated Indians have a lot of psychological issues from a missing childhood- children are not meant to grow up with all work and no fun and the Finnish education system for example, is proving that you can have a A+ top of the line education system that doesn't give out homework (thats right- Finns don't get homework. All their education, is done during school hours). 2 hours ago, Gollum said: 5. Will fund the Forest Dept heavily, will strive to get 33% forest cover ASAP.....Indian Forest Service will be empowered and be placed above all other services. 5 is too less yaar. Not possible, unless we go the communist route. Government simply does not own enough land to make this viable and seizing public property is a non-starter in a capitalist democracy. Re-forestation has to happen, but before that happens, we need to free up land for it. This means urbanization ( greater density of cities = less land with houses on top of it) and farmland intensification (currently Indian farmlands are 3x-4x less productive than their western counterparts, despite India having some of the best farming soil in the world). Once that happens, we will have land for re-forestation and this is urgently required in the Ganges- brahmaputra valley region, where soil erosion is a severe problem. Also, my top priority would be to increase funding for the police & justice system. We need 10,000 more court houses, 30-40,000 more judges, 2x the police salaries and 2x the number of policemen. India is like a swiss cheese, being eaten from inside by worms. And this will not go away with Hinduvta moralism or any such ilk, it will only go away, if India can have a strong justice system, where laws are enforced. Too many Indians make the mistake of confusing a strong justice system with a strong economy, all the while forgetting that even today, poor nations like Moldova, Romania, Slovakia, etc. have a much, much stronger justice system than India. Indians also makes the mistake of thinking that a strong justice system = zero corruption. Well, you will never have zero corruption and corruption NEEDS to be reduced, but the problem with our justice system is not that the rich go scot-free, its that it is paralyzed and if tomorrow i go throw a petrol bomb at someone's house and run away, chances are, i will never be caught. The ability of Indian citizens to get away with breaking the law- whether its assault, moral-policing, etc, is what urgently requires correction. Because without a strong justice system and consequences for your actions, India as a society will slide towards Arab-style corrupt society as a whole, where nobody believes in the law and everyone just cozies up to the influential people to get away with breaking the law. Gollum and tweaker 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted January 5, 2018 Author Share Posted January 5, 2018 4 hours ago, Gollum said: 5 is too less yaar. I know! As Dictators, we would have to learn to prioritize esp considering resources are not unlimited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surajmal Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 5 is too much. Bring in hindutva and get out of the way; Let the cream rise to the top. In 40 yrs, Several thousand (thats all you need) extraordinary people free from bureaucracy along with advancements in AI will be laying the foundation of Hindu Renaissance. zen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 13 minutes ago, surajmal said: 5 is too much. Bring in hindutva and get out of the way; Let the cream rise to the top. In 40 yrs, Several thousand (thats all you need) extraordinary people free from bureaucracy along with advancements in AI will be laying the foundation of Hindu Renaissance. Why, to the bolded part ? Why are you so attached to ideas created by people with less than 1% education than yourself ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted January 5, 2018 Author Share Posted January 5, 2018 (edited) Below is my list: a) Keep Environment / Planet First Policy Work towards zero carbon emissions program Clean water, air and land. For example one should be able to drink safely from the tap World class waste management systems. Currently, if I am not wrong the same pipes that bring water in also serve as one to dispose garbage including human waste to river systems Improved forest cover and dedicated areas for animals who would have rights too Curbing pollution through improving public transport system, developing cities with roads only for public transports and limiting the use of vehicles b) Human Development Free education till grade 10 Students go to schools allocated to them. If parents want their children to go to the best school, the only option is to turn the school their children to go in to the best through generous donations Strict laws against child labor allowing every kid to learn 4.5 days work week. After lunch on Friday, citizens would be requested to give 1 hour of their time to help clean India, plant trees, etc. Education programs on personal hygiene and acceptable social behavior c) Free basic health care for all citizens Automatic health insurance of INR1M for advanced health care for all taxpayers Major investment initiatives to turn India in to a global healthcare destination especially for people from 3rd world countries Focus on healthy citizens program by allowing 1 hour exercise time during work/school time Develop special facilities for the care of senior citizens Highly discounted non-prescription drugs. Free for those within certain income level d) Zero Unemployment Program Promote entrepreneurship where people think about becoming job creators Develop Made in Bharat brand as a champion for sustainability Improve availability of credit e) The Tough Decisions To create a great environment of all living beings and planet, many things would need to be cleaned up and stricter laws enforced Population control and reduction to 300M, which means that death penalty to rapists, terrorists, corrupt people, thieves, polluters, poachers, chronic traffic offenders who put others lives in danger, rogue elements, child employers, child abusers, etc. No place for bad apples. In a country with limited resources, can't allow evil to thrive and be given multiple chances. In a war against evil some folks may be sacrificed but that will have to be it. People should shiver at the thought of breaking a law No Pakistan. Can't allow this country to continuously pester India. And possibly a Free Tibet Edited January 6, 2018 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 1 minute ago, zen said: Below is my list: a) Keep Environment / Planet First Policy Work towards zero carbon emission program Clean water, air and land World class waste management systems. Currently, if I am not wrong the same pipes that bring water in also serve as one to dispose garbage including human waste to river systems Improved forest cover and dedicated areas for animals who would have rights too Curbing pollution through improving public transport system, developing cities with roads only for public transports and limiting the use of vehicles b) Human Development Free education till grade 10 Students go to schools allocated to them. If parents want their children to go to the best school, the only option is to turn the school their children to go in to the best through generous donations Strict laws against child labor allowing every kid to learn Develop special facilities for the care of senior citizens 4.5 days work week. After lunch on Friday, citizens would be requested to give 1 hour of their time to help clean India c) Free basic health care of all citizens Automatic health insurance of INR1M for advanced health care for all taxpayers Major investment initiatives to turn India in to a global healthcare destination especially for people from 3rd world countries Focus on healthy citizens program by allowing 1 hour to exercise time during work/school time d) Zero Unemployment Program Promote entrepreneurship where people think about becoming job creators Develop Made in Bharat brand as a champion for sustainability Improve availability of credit e) The Bad Stuff To create a great environment of all living beings and planet, many things would need to be cleaned up and stricter laws enforced Population control reduction to 300M, which means that death penalty to rapists, terrorists, corrupt people, thieves, polluters, poachers, traffic offenders who put others lives in danger, etc. No place for bad apples. In a country with limited resources, can't allow evil to thrive and be given 2nd chances. In a war against evil some folks may be sacrificed but that will have to be it. People should shiver at the thought of breaking a law No Pakistan. Can't allow this country to continuously pester India Welcome to Hitler mentality. Looking for excuses to kill people. Pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fineleg Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 1 hour ago, surajmal said: 5 is too much. Bring in hindutva and get out of the way; Let the cream rise to the top. In 40 yrs, Several thousand (thats all you need) extraordinary people free from bureaucracy along with advancements in AI will be laying the foundation of Hindu Renaissance. Why? Why hindutva? zen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 (edited) @Muloghonto What about one child policy for a few decades and then relaxation of norms once the possibility of demographic crunch arises? I mean statisticians can figure out the exact intricacies of such a formula. China adopted this policy in 1979 and have started the phase out in 2015 in certain provinces. We have a similar country (pop wise) in China to learn from, follow their path and make adjustments/corrections wherever you feel China erred. By 2022 we are overtaking China as the most populated nation in the world, we will have roughly 18% of the world's population living on 2.4% of the land area. There is a looming water crisis in India and our per capita water availability is already comparable to a few sub Saharan countries. Female emancipation is good on paper but in a 3rd world country like ours with an outdated thought process it may take many years for that to happen, we don't have the luxury of time here, need drastic measures. I know none of this is going to happen but OP gave me this role of a dictator, so I blurted out my PoV. Edited January 6, 2018 by Gollum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surajmal Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 4 hours ago, Muloghonto said: Why, to the bolded part ? Why are you so attached to ideas created by people with less than 1% education than yourself ? Because human nature is still stuck in the bronze age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vijy Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 43 minutes ago, Gollum said: @Muloghonto What about one child policy for a few decades and then relaxation of norms once the possibility of demographic crunch arises? I mean statisticians can figure out the exact intricacies of such a formula. China adopted this policy in 1979 and have started the phase out in 2015 in certain provinces. We have a similar country (pop wise) in China to learn from, follow their path and make adjustments/corrections wherever you feel China erred. By 2022 we are overtaking China as the most populated nation in the world, we will have roughly 18% of the world's population living on 2.4% of the land area. There is a looming water crisis in India and our per capita water availability is already comparable to a few sub Saharan countries. Female emancipation is good on paper but in a 3rd world country like ours with an outdated thought process it may take many years for that to happen, we don't have the luxury of time here, need drastic measures. I know none of this is going to happen but OP gave me this role of a dictator, so I blurted out my PoV. reflect on how "good" things will be at our current growth rate in another couple of decades; I bet we will overtake Bangladeshs in population density as well at some stage. I agree with muloghonto that the best way ahead is female emancipation not the 1-child policy. most chinese I knew either told me about loopholes that were used by families or the negatives they caused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 2 hours ago, surajmal said: Because human nature is still stuck in the bronze age. If so, then i must not be human. And neither are many here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 3 hours ago, Gollum said: @Muloghonto What about one child policy for a few decades and then relaxation of norms once the possibility of demographic crunch arises? I mean statisticians can figure out the exact intricacies of such a formula. China adopted this policy in 1979 and have started the phase out in 2015 in certain provinces. We have a similar country (pop wise) in China to learn from, follow their path and make adjustments/corrections wherever you feel China erred. By 2022 we are overtaking China as the most populated nation in the world, we will have roughly 18% of the world's population living on 2.4% of the land area. There is a looming water crisis in India and our per capita water availability is already comparable to a few sub Saharan countries. Female emancipation is good on paper but in a 3rd world country like ours with an outdated thought process it may take many years for that to happen, we don't have the luxury of time here, need drastic measures. I know none of this is going to happen but OP gave me this role of a dictator, so I blurted out my PoV. Female emancipation, especially in a dictatorial capacity, does not take very long. It takes 10-15 years or so and thats how long it took Eastern Europe to start showing growth rate decline. Furthermore, forcing a 1 child policy on the population breeds corruption, as the vast majority of people themselves are not buying into the concept but forced to do so. Whereas female emancipation is fundamentally people buying into it and thus, requires far less resources in the long term to police such a change and the change is far more permanent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 12 hours ago, Gollum said: 1. One child policy 2. UCC 3. Death sentence should be used liberally, 1000s of vermin (esp terrorists, rapists, pedophiles, murderers, gangsters, various types of mafia) need to be hanged every year and not 1 in 4 years 4. Education will be very high on my agenda, will spend 10% of budget on education and not a measly 1% 5. Will fund the Forest Dept heavily, will strive to get 33% forest cover ASAP.....Indian Forest Service will be empowered and be placed above all other services. 5 is too less yaar. Except for one child policy. People should be allowed at least two. Any more should be heavily taxed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 10 hours ago, Muloghonto said: 12 hours ago, Gollum said: 1. One child policy One child policy doesn't work. Sooner or later, you end up with a demographic crunch, where the 65+ population is way bigger ratio than the <65 (aka working population) is supposed to be, for a healthy economy. Look, population control, enforced, is a bad idea. But there is a very easy way to control population and it has been done over and over and over again in many countries : female emancipation. Countries where women are treated equal to men and don't have 'matronly expectations' (i.e., its ok for a woman to not get married and have kids), their birth rates have plummeted. This is probably the *one* good thing about communism and where communism was way ahead of the west : giving females control over their own bodies Thums up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 3 minutes ago, Muloghonto said: Female emancipation, especially in a dictatorial capacity, does not take very long. It takes 10-15 years or so and thats how long it took Eastern Europe to start showing growth rate decline. Furthermore, forcing a 1 child policy on the population breeds corruption, as the vast majority of people themselves are not buying into the concept but forced to do so. Whereas female emancipation is fundamentally people buying into it and thus, requires far less resources in the long term to police such a change and the change is far more permanent. Eastern Europe had very high literacy rates and moreover there the population explosion wasn't nearly as critical as it is in India atm. India can be compared only with China, we should look to emulate that country now more than ever since we are on the brink. beetle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, Gollum said: Eastern Europe had very high literacy rates and moreover there the population explosion wasn't nearly as critical as it is in India atm. India can be compared only with China, we should look to emulate that country now more than ever since we are on the brink. No, eastern europe didn't have very high literacy rates till much later. Take Russia for eg. Its literacy rate was below 25% when the commie revolution happened. Their birth rate started dropping in the late 20s/early 30s ( 15-20 years after revolution) but their literacy rate didnt hit 90% till the 1960s. We cannot emulate China and neither should we want to. Because corruption in China is orders of magnitude greater than it is in India and its a fundamentally more totalitarian country. In India, female emancipation has a far better chance of succeeding than in China because Indian population is far less cohesive and hence, far harder for dictator to push around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vijy Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 12 minutes ago, Muloghonto said: Female emancipation, especially in a dictatorial capacity, does not take very long. It takes 10-15 years or so and thats how long it took Eastern Europe to start showing growth rate decline. Furthermore, forcing a 1 child policy on the population breeds corruption, as the vast majority of people themselves are not buying into the concept but forced to do so. Whereas female emancipation is fundamentally people buying into it and thus, requires far less resources in the long term to police such a change and the change is far more permanent. it probably did take 15 yrs or so in eastern europe but their society's initial conditions were quite different from india. we are closer to china although that does not mean I advocate for forcible 1 child policy. it just means that the timescale will be longer (by a factor of around 3-4). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vijy Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 1 minute ago, Muloghonto said: No, eastern europe didn't have very high literacy rates till much later. Take Russia for eg. Its literacy rate was below 25% when the commie revolution happened. Their birth rate started dropping in the late 20s/early 30s ( 15-20 years after revolution) but their literacy rate didnt hit 90% till the 1960s. We cannot emulate China and neither should we want to. Because corruption in China is orders of magnitude greater than it is in India and its a fundamentally more totalitarian country. In India, female emancipation has a far better chance of succeeding than in China because Indian population is far less cohesive and hence, far harder for dictator to push around. I don't think it was literacy rates but the income distribution that was different. india's income distribution is different from the USSR and population sizes have a major role to play. and I concur fully about china being more totalitarian, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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