Gollum Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, Muloghonto said: No, eastern europe didn't have very high literacy rates till much later. Take Russia for eg. Its literacy rate was below 25% when the commie revolution happened. Their birth rate started dropping in the late 20s/early 30s ( 15-20 years after revolution) but their literacy rate didnt hit 90% till the 1960s. We cannot emulate China and neither should we want to. Because corruption in China is orders of magnitude greater than it is in India and its a fundamentally more totalitarian country. In India, female emancipation has a far better chance of succeeding than in China because Indian population is far less cohesive and hence, far harder for dictator to push around. Let us limit to the Soviet Union because that was the perfect example of a totalitarian regime. I think population started stabilizing only in the late 80s (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Soviet_Union#/media/File:Population_of_former_USSR.PNG). Literacy of USSR was >99% by the late 70s-early 80s. I think there is a strong relation between literacy and TFR, I mean look at the southern states and compare it with the cow belt. India is a few decades from having high literacy rate and we are fighting a battle against time here. Also check the table here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Soviet_Union There was a dip from 1911 to 1920, understandable because of the revolution+wars. Another dip between 1941 and 1951 because of the WW 2 and Stalin's purge. Otherwise I don't see a decline in pop till 1990. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velu Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 @zen first things first Gollum, kira and zen 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasgulla Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 On 05/01/2018 at 11:54 PM, Muloghonto said: Welcome to Hitler mentality. Looking for excuses to kill people. Pathetic. Hitler developed Germany.. I think we should show him some respect in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 20 minutes ago, Rasgulla said: Hitler developed Germany.. I think we should show him some respect in that regard. False. Germany was developed long before Hitler. It had all the institutions in place, a highly educated workforce, all these factors were true BEFORE hitler. Just because 15% of Germans died, doesn't mean all of a sudden Germans no longer knew how to make top class stuff. German 'renaissance' is from the 1880s. Frederick the Great. Read about him. Hitler just appropriated a screwed up situation with germany and enforced a completely destructive totalitarian policy, which only got worse and worse. Yes, he may deserve respect, but not for building Germany, but being an evil opportunist who took full measure to enrich & empower himself, at the cost of Germany's future. Gollum and Turning_track 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kira Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 On 1/6/2018 at 5:48 AM, fineleg said: Why? Why hindutva? On 1/6/2018 at 4:36 AM, Muloghonto said: Why, to the bolded part ? Why are you so attached to ideas created by people with less than 1% education than yourself ? Because he's an idiot and a brainwashed sheep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 On 06/01/2018 at 5:24 AM, Muloghonto said: Students go to schools allocated to them. If parents want their children to go to the best school, the only option is to turn the school their children to go in to the best through generous donations Don't agree. Don't want govt to decide which school my kid goes to. We earn the money, we save the money,we get to decide for our child without having to sponsor the whole school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted January 7, 2018 Author Share Posted January 7, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, beetle said: Don't agree. Don't want govt to decide which school my kid goes to. We earn the money, we save the money,we get to decide for our child without having to sponsor the whole school. Appears as if the guy (Mulo) I blocked has quoted my post Note that Finland for e.g. has one of the brightest students in the world. Its school system was built in a similar way. It also allows for various classes to mingle in their formative years and understand each other, creating harmony in the community in the long term The goal would be to have all school impart education at similar levels. This is not about “my child is not left behind” but “no child is left behind” Also note that by paying high tuition fees (vs free), you are already giving money to schools. If a child is given free education you are saving on tuition fees (and on food which would be provided by the school as well) therefore for well off families what would be the harm in pooling resources to donate to the schools to add more equipments to gym, playground, computer lab, school cafeteria, etc.? This will benefit not only your kids but other kids as well (and help in strengthening the community further) The free (and allocated) school system would be till grade 10. For higher and specialized education, students would have options The success of a new system needs to be looked holistically. All parts add up to give the desired results for the community (not individuals). It is like the game Jenga, where you need to put all the pieces together correctly for the structure to be in place PS Schools in Finland PPS School Food in France Edited January 7, 2018 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 @zen India is not finland .Delhi probably has more children than finland . We choose to have one child so we can provide her the best we can . Why should my child suffer because rest of the country chooses to reproduce irresponsibly ? We pay taxes..after that how we educate our child should be our decision . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted January 7, 2018 Author Share Posted January 7, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, beetle said: @zen India is not finland .Delhi probably has more children than finland . We choose to have one child so we can provide her the best we can . Why should my child suffer because rest of the country chooses to reproduce irresponsibly ? We pay taxes..after that how we educate our child should be our decision . The goal is to take the country forward and out of the mess it is in. Ind is not Finland, a common knowledge, but that does not mean Ind has to remain a mess and continue to do what it pleases. And for it to come out of this, it needs effort and participation from everyone One of the reasons for the situation is most ppl are like why should we suffer because of that. So if x pollute, why should I clean and not pollute too And you are taking every point individually. You have to see things holistically including pollution and population control People who live in a mess, get used to it, and usually don’t realize what needs to be done to drive changes until it is too late. Ind does not have 500 years to turn in to a Finland for e.g., a community and planet focused country relatively speaking You spoke about Delhi, which people in India have already turned in to a mess. At current rate and the thought process, the question is what is next that will go to the dogs Edited January 7, 2018 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted January 7, 2018 Author Share Posted January 7, 2018 (edited) Long time ago, I went to the Indian embassy in Toronto to get my passport renewed. To my horror, it was smelling of urine like many washrooms in Ind. It was the only place in the building to smell like that. What is the excuse for being such unhygienic in Toronto, where washrooms are abundant. Do we don’t care about flushing properly in washrooms? We have to improve as a community by ensuring that no one is left behind Edited January 7, 2018 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, zen said: The goal is to take the country forward and out of the mess it is in. Ind is not Finland, a common knowledge, but that does not mean Ind has to remain a mess and continue to do what it pleases. And for it to come out of this, it needs effort and participation from everyone One of the reasons for the situation is most ppl are like why should we suffer because of that. So if x pollute, why should I clean and not pollute too And you are taking every point individually. You have to see things holistically including pollution and population control People who live in a mess, get used to it, and usually don’t realize what needs to be done to drive changes until it is too late. Ind does not have 500 years to turn in to a Finland for e.g., a community and planet focused country relatively speaking You spoke about Delhi, which people in India have already turned in to a mess. At current rate and the thought process, the question is what is next that will go to the dogs What works for finland does not work for India. Different people, different problems, different solutions. If you say all kids should go to same school irrespective of whether their parents had one child or ten children, then the children obsessed people that we are , we will just keep having children and sending them to the same crowded schools. Your solution will just bring every body down instead of lifting others. Most of our problems stem from our obsession to have children irrespective of whether we can provide for them or not. The solution for that is to reward people who believe in responsible reproduction and not punish them by forcing them to send their responsibly produced child to the overcrowed community school. Why the hell should responsible people like us have just one....why not breed like pigs if it is not going to effect their quality of life? Just believe in quantity rather than quality. And what does thinking individually mean here? If people can not take individual responsibility of their lives...how the hell do we expect them to take collective responsibility? If we have one thing in this country...that is freedom to decide our lives....and you want yo take away that too. What are we without that freedom?.... bloody china ! First world solutions rarely work in third world countries.Not when it involves a huge population. Numbers dilute the solution. Edited January 7, 2018 by beetle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 (edited) 45 minutes ago, zen said: Long time ago, I went to the Indian embassy in Toronto to get my passport renewed. To my horror, it was smelling of urine like many washrooms in Ind. It was the only place in the building to smell like that. What is the excuse for being such unhygienic in Toronto, where washrooms are abundant. Do we don’t care about flushing properly in washrooms? We have to improve as a community by ensuring that no one is left behind Let me guess.... Your way would be... Lets have only stinky cummunity toilets till we can have good toilets and toilet manners for everyone. We all suffer together till everyone learns.No leeways for people who do not stink up the toilets. We all have to do this together. If people want to use non stinky toilets...please pay big donation to build non stinky toilet. Edited January 7, 2018 by beetle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 India will never tolerate a real dictator. We may tolerate one we elected ourselves for some years , but not a real true dictator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted January 7, 2018 Author Share Posted January 7, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, beetle said: What works for finland does not work for India. Different people, different problems, different solutions. If you say all kids should go to same school irrespective of whether their parents had one child or ten children, then the children obsessed people that we are , we will just keep having children and sending them to the same crowded schools. Your solution will just bring every body down instead of lifting others. Most of our problems stem from our obsession to have children irrespective of whether we can provide for them or not. The solution for that is to reward people who believe in responsible reproduction and not punish them by forcing them to send their responsibly produced child to the overcrowed community school. Why the hell should responsible people like us have just one....why not breed like pigs if it is not going to effect their quality of life? Just believe in quantity rather than quality. And what does thinking individually mean here? If people can not take individual responsibility of their lives...how the hell do we expect them to take collective responsibility? If we have one thing in this country...that is freedom to decide our lives....and you want yo take away that too. What are we without that freedom?.... bloody china ! Your points sounds like if x can decide how many children to have, y can decide which school to send the kids too. In the end, leading to a chaos that India has become and not improve the status. The idea here is to improve the status If Freedom is a right, then it would have responsibility attached to it too. If citizens are not responsible, they don't deserve much freedom And your point on schooling choices for a family with 10 kids and a family of presumably 1 or 2 kids is irrelevant too. Because those 10 kids have the freedom to go to could to school you want to send your kid(s) too, and possibly filling the spots to deny your kid a place in the school A parent may send her kid(s) to the school of her choice but then the question arises is that is some more deserving and capable kid missing out because the spot is occupied ? Your choice of sending your kid to the school of your choice may not necessarily be the best choice for the country based on how resources are utilized and allocated. Favoritism is one of the reasons for India's current mess When talking about basic education, a country should not think in terms of number of children a family has but what it needs to do for its citizens. Each and every kid is a citizen of India. And they have not come to earth through their wishes. It is imperative to give each child an opportunity to be successful and not be burdened by the choices their parents made Population can be controlled through another policy and therefore the country would need to implement a holistic policy covering various bases To progress as a community, we have to give equal opportunity to every kid especially in the formative years. And thereby, devote more resources to education. Standardize the quality of education so you don't miss much by going to x school vs y school. As discussed, parents too have the option of pooling resources to better support the schools their kids go to. They are saving money because of free education and food, which all adds up for a education till Grade 10 The idea of having such a system is to alleviate the problems by taking a long term approach. Where people understand the need for keeping environment first, reproduce and behave responsibly, and keep community first India is already late. It has to start now Edited January 7, 2018 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted January 7, 2018 Author Share Posted January 7, 2018 (edited) 51 minutes ago, beetle said: Let me guess.... Your way would be... Lets have only stinky cummunity toilets till we can have good toilets and toilet manners for everyone. We all suffer together till everyone learns.No leeways for people who do not stink up the toilets. We all have to do this together. If people want to use non stinky toilets...please pay big donation to build non stinky toilet. My solution would be to actually have the toilets cleaned. Fine those who do not use them properly. And if required, have a hour per day / week to clean India Already mentioned: Quote b) Human Development Free education till grade 10 Students go to schools allocated to them. If parents want their children to go to the best school, the only option is to turn the school their children to go in to the best through generous donations Strict laws against child labor allowing every kid to learn 4.5 days work week. After lunch on Friday, citizens would be requested to give 1 hour of their time to help clean India, plant trees, etc. Education programs on personal hygiene and acceptable social behavior You should look at points holistically. Note these are only selected points to keep the post reasonably short Edited January 7, 2018 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, zen said: My solution would be to actually have the toilets cleaned. Fine those who do not use them properly. And if required, have a hour per day / week to clean India Already mentioned: You should look at points holistically. Note this is only a short selection I agreed with rest...but not with other people deciding where people should educate their children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted January 7, 2018 Author Share Posted January 7, 2018 15 minutes ago, beetle said: I agreed with rest...but not with other people deciding where people should educate their children. As long as we agree on most parts, it works! .... I can see as a mom you would be a little emotional on issues related to kids beetle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 On 1/7/2018 at 9:36 PM, zen said: Long time ago, I went to the Indian embassy in Toronto to get my passport renewed. To my horror, it was smelling of urine like many washrooms in Ind. It was the only place in the building to smell like that. What is the excuse for being such unhygienic in Toronto, where washrooms are abundant. Do we don’t care about flushing properly in washrooms? We have to improve as a community by ensuring that no one is left behind What did you do to rectify the stench? As a dictator what would you have ordered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) @Gollum UCC can be passed in our democracy too, if the powers that be are serious about it. One needn't be a dictator for that. Of course,it is only mentioned before elections, to show one set of people as victims and the 'others' as if they are on a certain civic pedestal. I distinctly remember passing the UCC as a part of the agenda. Wonder what happened to that? You've wasted one wish. Edited January 9, 2018 by Mariyam Gollum 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 12 minutes ago, Mariyam said: @Gollum UCC can be passed in our democracy too, if the powers that be are serious about it. One needn't be a dictator for that. Of course,it is only mentioned before elections, to show one set of people as victims and the 'others' as if they are on a certain civic pedestal. I distinctly remember passing the UCC as a part of the agenda. Wonder what happened to that? You've wasted one wish. In that case I would like to edit my wishlist. I strike out the UCC part and my new wish is a complete ban on IPL. All Indians will be forced to watch test cricket only, any mention of CSK or MI will land a person in jail for life. Mariyam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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