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Khota

Those who wanted Vijay/rahul over Dhawan - Time to eat a crow

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1 hour ago, Khota said:

Some people have no clue about sports. They have not done anything at high level. They dont know how things get executed at highest level. If I have to point at one person who was the worst so far it has been Vijay. Dont look at cricket stats as they are done incorrectly. Scratch the surface and see what it reveals.

Dhawan > Vijay and Rahul.

 

Time permitting I will post recipes for making crow. I am rushed right now.

 

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Some people have no clue about sports.

 

 

Agree.

 

 

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Dhawan > Vijay and Rahul

 

Some people have no clue about sports.

 

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3 hours ago, philcric said:

 

 

Agree.

 

 

 

Some people have no clue about sports.

 

Some people think getting their asses handed on a platter is funny.

Edited by Khota

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8 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

This aint an easy pitch to bat for openers, dhawan wud have been worst. 

No matter currently vijay n rahul are ur better option and they have to backed, whereas dhawan shud be kept back in delhi

 

5 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

This series was very tough for openers. Top class bowling attack in helpful conditions.  

This is all you got. Pathetic.

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4 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

what have u got a defense of 16 runs which is also a failure, past record also a failure

dikha kya rha hai 16 run 

Atleast vijay ka technique hai, past record hai.....1 credential hai 

Magar mere bhai run nahin hain.

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Dhawan failed in 2/2 innings, success rate is 0%

Vijay failed in 4.5/5 innings, success rate is 10%

 

so vijay > dhawan..

 

damn, i love making such logic.. its so easy and no need too much thinking:aha:

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These series has exposed all three openers. All of thee have been like Fish out of water. England think tank would be looking at this struggle by our 3 openers. They will certainly look to exploit the fact that our 3 openers cannot bat in certain conditions. If they roll out patas then the same Dhawans, Vijays and Rahuls will score tons like they do on batsman friendly wickets in India.

 

The average of all 3 openers in England will depend upon what types of wickets are served.

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55 minutes ago, Detonator said:

Dhawan failed in 2/2 innings, success rate is 0%

Vijay failed in 4.5/5 innings, success rate is 10%

 

so vijay > dhawan..

 

damn, i love making such logic.. its so easy and no need too much thinking:aha:

You do manufacture logic as you go along.

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5 hours ago, Khota said:

Magar mere bhai run nahin hain.

run to dhawan ke bhi nhin, 16 run kabse acha perfomance ho gaya

Thats what m saying agreed vijay failed, but 16 runs is also a failure . Both have failed but atleas vijay has a history n technique so no doubt he ll be backed n he shud be 

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5 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

run to dhawan ke bhi nhin, 16 run kabse acha perfomance ho gaya

Thats what m saying agreed vijay failed, but 16 runs is also a failure . Both have failed but atleas vijay has a history n technique so no doubt he ll be backed n he shud be 

Fundamentally I cannot disagree with you. Both failed. What I was trying to say which I do belive in my heart is that Dhawan is better than Vijay. We can disagree about that and still have friendly banter. Let us move on.

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2 minutes ago, Khota said:

Fundamentally I cannot disagree with you. Both failed. What I was trying to say which I do belive in my heart is that Dhawan is better than Vijay. We can disagree about that and still have friendly banter. Let us move on.

Dhawan is not a good leaver! Vijay is.....well was. On a helpful track Dhawan is most likely to nick one to the slips. If not that then they will bounce him out. 

 

The issue now is because India is switching regularly between 3 openers, none of them are confident right now.

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21 minutes ago, Khota said:

Rahane, Dhawan and Rohit in my mind are abt the same. But they are top 5 bats for India.

Surely Rahane has been bad recently. But it's an insult to say Rahane, Dhawan and Rohit are about the same level. Rahane might as well want to retire after hearing it.

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41 minutes ago, Khota said:

Rahane, Dhawan and Rohit in my mind are abt the same. But they are top 5 bats for India.

Sure why not , unfortunately though the games are not played in your mind where Sharma and Dhawan could be scoring double hundreds in a session 

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11 hours ago, Pollack said:

Surely Rahane has been bad recently. But it's an insult to say Rahane, Dhawan and Rohit are about the same level. Rahane might as well want to retire after hearing it.

I just dont see it that way.

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Took the shine off the new ball, you think we would be in this position had Kohli walked in yesterday? Vijay was dreadful in Cape Town and the 1st innings here, this was a gem of a knock today. 

No it is not a gem of an innings at all.if this is his ceiling they might start looking for a different opener.

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4 minutes ago, putrevus said:

What is point in surviving if you score just 25 runs.

So that the likes of Batsman no.3 doesn't have to face Philander or Anderson with a new ball!

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Just now, putrevus said:


No it is not a gem of an innings at all.if this is his ceiling they might start looking for a different opener.

In that case should we look for a different no.4 before going to England as well?! The opener has a job to do, this is exactly what Gavaskar was good at. This aint a patta where the likes of Dhawan can freely score. 

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On this pitch 112 balls and giving company to Kohli is worth more than 50 runs. Parthiv streaked his way to 16. Ball was still new. 

He threw his wicket away last test after doing all the hard work too.just surviving is not enough for an opener, once set he needs to score also.

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2 minutes ago, putrevus said:


No it is not a gem of an innings at all.if this is his ceiling they might start looking for a different opener.

Disagree. This is not Rajkot pitch. He did score 2 centuries on such pitches. We all saw how batsmen like ABDV got out on this pitch. THere is always 2 or 3 balls with your name on it everywhere. So surviving is much harder than scoring quick 25 runs.  Umpires even had to look at the cracks.

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1 minute ago, putrevus said:


He threw his wicket away last test after doing all the hard work too.just surviving is not enough for an opener, once set he needs to score also.

the day u find openers who can even survive let me knw. 

U can only score if u survive 

4 minutes ago, putrevus said:


No it is not a gem of an innings at all.if this is his ceiling they might start looking for a different opener.

please go ahead look for one n let us knw. 

We watch domestic cricket so we knw what are the options 

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2 minutes ago, putrevus said:


He threw his wicket away last test after doing all the hard work too.just surviving is not enough for an opener, once set he needs to score also.

How is it throwing his wicket away. He suddenly altered his length and bowled an outstanding inswinging yorker. He even touched the ball. That was just too good a ball if you juxtapose with the lengths he bowled at earlier.

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3 minutes ago, putrevus said:


He threw his wicket away last test after doing all the hard work too.just surviving is not enough for an opener, once set he needs to score also.

Agreed, but you take one step at a time. The guy came back from injury to play in the SL series and then now here. He is India's best opener at the moment.

 

He is vital if Kohli has to succeed in England. Expose no.4 onwards to the new ball and India's batting will crumble.

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Disagree. This is not Rajkot pitch. He did score 2 centuries on such pitches. We all saw how batsmen like ABDV got out on this pitch. THere is always 2 or 3 balls with your name on it everywhere. So surviving is much harder than scoring quick 25 runs.  Umpires even had to look at the cracks.

There is a reason why this guy is averaging in low 40s , he doesn't convert his starts, when playing with just five batsmen you need to score runs when you get starts.just taking shine off the new ball is not enough,

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Just now, shortbread said:

Agreed, but you take one step at a time. The guy came back from injury to play in the SL series and then now here. He is India's best opener at the moment.

 

He is vital if Kohli has to succeed in England. Expose no.4 onwards to the new ball and India's batting will crumble.

I very much doubt any opener in the world could have survived against this attack this long on this surface. Y day he left the balls on length and line impeccably. Let us just have to sit and appreciate his technique. He is definitely the best opener to play on difficult pitches.

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2 minutes ago, putrevus said:


There is a reason why this guy is averaging in low 40s , he doesn't convert his starts, when playing with just five batsmen you need to score runs when you get starts.just taking shine off the new ball is not enough,

That is a problem i am always concerned about. I would not hold that against him in this innings. If the batting is little easier like in the last test i would agree with you. On this pitch i have no qualms about his innings. He did the very best he could do. In the entire series only 2 batsmen have crossed 200 if i am right in 5 innings.

Edited by vvvslaxman

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Agreed, but you take one step at a time. The guy came back from injury to play in the SL series and then now here. He is India's best opener at the moment.
 
He is vital if Kohli has to succeed in England. Expose no.4 onwards to the new ball and India's batting will crumble.

Sorry for me an opener once set should score big, Vijay too often loses his patience and throws his wicket away after getting the start.As an opener you are bound to get good balls where you just can't do anything like today.

The reason it happens to Vijay is he doesn't look to score at all.

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Just now, putrevus said:


Sorry for me an opener once set should score big, Vijay too often loses his patience and throws his wicket away after getting the start.As an opener you are bound to get good balls where you just can't do anything like today.

The reason it happens to Vijay is he doesn't look to score at all.

He is coming on the back of 2 centuries. I think all 3 pitches had something about them. One was up and down. Two others are unplayable. They came in with zero practice. They didn't even have time to get through jet lag. This is one of the toughest series for batsmen from both sides. 

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He is coming on the back of 2 centuries. I think all 3 pitches had something about them. One was up and down. Two others are unplayable. They came in with zero practice. They didn't even have time to get through jet lag. This is one of the toughest series for batsmen from both sides. 

Why is this an excuse for Vijay and not Dhawan.Dhawan is not the answer but Vijay is not the answer either he is 33 and slowed down a lot on field too. They need some one better.

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3 minutes ago, putrevus said:


Why is this an excuse for Vijay and not Dhawan.Dhawan is not the answer but Vijay is not the answer either he is 33 and slowed down a lot on field too. They need some one better.

There is no one better. Seen the techniques of all the openers. They would not have lasted more than couple of overs on this tour.  You need to leave a lot of balls on this pitch. Kohli after so many failures has learnt how to leave the right balls.  There is nobody batted with self assurance in this  series bar Kohli, abdv and Amla to some extent. For an opener job is doubly hard. M Vijay is a must for overseas tours until he completely goes off the boil like getting out in the first over, 2nd over. 

Edited by vvvslaxman

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2 minutes ago, putrevus said:


Why is this an excuse for Vijay and not Dhawan.Dhawan is not the answer but Vijay is not the answer either he is 33 and slowed down a lot on field too. They need some one better.

Vijay is the best opener India has and no one even comes close. A replacement for Rahul (albeit I might give gim a longer run) and Dhawan can be looked into. But what will most probably happen is some new kid will come in to open againsta England fail and then the merry go round starts again. That is the whole issue.

 

Get two openers stick with them for two series and let their partnership develop. Or the openers will fail in 10 overs and the line up will follow like dominoes. 

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That is a problem i am always concerned about. I would not hold that against him in this innings. If the batting is little easier like in the last test i would agree with you. On this pitch i have no qualms about his innings. He did the very best he could do. In the entire series only 2 batsmen have crossed 200 if i am right in 5 innings.

He got two starts and he failed in both innings to convert.No one is asking him to score boundaries or play airy shots, he and Pujara have to learn to rotate strike better or they will never do enough.

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Just now, putrevus said:


He got two starts and he failed in both innings to convert.No one is asking him to score boundaries or play airy shots, he and Pujara have to learn to rotate strike better or they will never do enough.

No please, the whole Pujara positivity thing ended up in two runouts!

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I very much doubt any opener in the world could have survived against this attack this long on this surface. Y day he left the balls on length and line impeccably. Let us just have to sit and appreciate his technique. He is definitely the best opener to play on difficult pitches.

If it was just about today nobody will be having an issue but Vijay has a problem of becoming too stagnant and sudden rush of blood.

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2 minutes ago, putrevus said:


He got two starts and he failed in both innings to convert.No one is asking him to score boundaries or play airy shots, he and Pujara have to learn to rotate strike better or they will never do enough.

That is the thing. You are never in on this surface. Surviving and giving confidence to your inform captain did more wonders than anything else. Imagine him he made 25 in 25. Other batsmen would have been in lot early. SCore would have been 50/4.  Newish ball. Test match is not like one dayers.

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There is no one better. Seen the techniques of all the openers. They would not have lasted more than couple of overs on this tour.  You need to leave a lot of balls on this pitch. Kohli after so many failures has learnt how to leave the right balls.  There is nobody batted with self assurance in this  series bar Kohli, abdv and Amla to some extent. For an opener job is doubly hard. M Vijay is a must for overseas tours until he completely goes off the boil like getting out in the first over, 2nd over. 

He did that in first test chasing wide ones, if India has to compete with just five batsmen they better find batsmen who can score too not just take shine off the new ball.

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1 minute ago, putrevus said:


If it was just about today nobody will be having an issue but Vijay has a problem of becoming too stagnant and sudden rush of blood.

Blame the management for not going in with even a single practice match. They went from playing Sri Lankas on home ground to playing here against these set of bowlers. They tried to play the same shots they played against Lakmal paid the penalty. First test was practice test. He has more than done his job in this test. Even in the last he made 46 before throwing it away. Problem he has is fixable. Problems other have is not fixable. That is why we just have to persist with him especially overseas. I would take one more Vijay if available. He is the most assured opener in tough conditions. Yes he doesn't convert and score daddy hundreds. But unless we find an opener who is technically sound and can score big we just have to persist with him . I don't see one waiting in the wings.

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Blame the management for not going in with even a single practice match. They went from playing Sri Lankas on home ground to playing here against these set of bowlers. They tried to play the same shots they played against Lakmal paid the penalty. First test was practice test. He has more than done his job in this test. Even in the last he made 46 before throwing it away. Problem he has is fixable. Problems other have is not fixable. That is why we just have to persist with him especially overseas. I would take one more Vijay if available. He is the most assured opener in tough conditions. Yes he doesn't convert and score daddy hundreds. But unless we find an opener who is technically sound and can score big we just have to persist with him . I don't see one waiting in the wings.

He is 33 not 23 so he is what he is, so they need to keep looking.not saying he needs to dropped.people were clamouring for Rahul and glorifying him to be something he is not, he threw his wicket all four times.

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