This is what happens when you have every batsman playing for their place

[Forever Indian]

I know the batsmen have been highly disappointing this series, and they are to be blamed for this series loss. But when you look a bit deeper, other than Kohli (because he is a batsman) is there any other batsman who is not playing for their place?

 

Vijay, Rahul, Pujara, Rahane, even buddies Dhawan and Rohit - Who is sure about their place? When you have been the best bowler and 2nd best batsman and then dropped for next test - What message does it send to the players?

 

When you look around world cricket, is there any other team who do not have a stable top order for a considerable amount of time? The great teams of Aus and WI had a very stable core group around which they built the team as well. No one was playing for their place all the time.

 

To top it off, no youngsters are given chances and when given chance discarded at first opportunity (Jayant Yadav, Kuldeep, Karun Nair, etc.) and discards are got into team (Parthiv, Dinesh Karthik, Gambhir, etc.).

[SELVAM]

Kohli is the main culprit. His public criticism of pujara,vijay,rahane destroyed entire batting unit mentally. Now he left with cow dung in his hands.England tour will destroy kohli also

[chewy]

I don’t buy this theory. I just think these Indian batsmen barring Kohli are just not good enough to play quick, bouncy or swinging bowling on helpful pitches.

These guys are pros and with all the politicos, their basic skill set should not abandon them 

 

lets not foget many of these guys struggle on rank turners too. 

 

The successor to fab 4 was a false dawn. 

If something drastic is not done before England tour then expect more bloodshed 

 

I think one thing BCCI could have done is play ODIs before Test matches (besides obviously arrange warm ups) 

Edited January 17, 2018 by chewy

[Forever Indian]

1 minute ago, chewy said:

I don’t buy this theory. I just think these Indian batsmen barring Kohli are just not good enough to play quick, bouncy or swinging bowling on helpful pitches.

These guys are pros and with all the politicos, their basic skill set should abandon them 

 

lets not foget many of these guys struggle on rank turners too. 

 

The successor to fab 4 was a false dawn. 

If something drastic is not done before England tour then expect more bloodshed 

 

I think one thing BCCI could have done is play ODIs before Test matches (besides obviously arrange warm ups) 

Vijay, Rahane, Pujara, Rahul have all done well in similar and worse conditions before. So they can't play bouncy or swinging condition is not accurate. Especially this test the pitch is not even a green deck or super bouncy.

[chewy]

19 minutes ago, Forever Indian said:

Vijay, Rahane, Pujara, Rahul have all done well in similar and worse conditions before. So they can't play bouncy or swinging condition is not accurate. Especially this test the pitch is not even a green deck or super bouncy.

Yes true, but at the same time need a collective effort and too many times it’s line individual performances like Pandya in Test 1, or Kohli in Test 2

 

but my overall point is, India has such a big pool of batsmen and these are guys are the best but they are falling woefully short, irrespective of one or two selection blunders, as batting unit India should be posting 1st innings 300 plus regularly (like in Home Tests) irrespective of pitch conditions 

 

example we always laugh at England, but England batting unit more often then not post 300 plus playing whether playing in India or South Africa or Australia

[Forever Indian]

24 minutes ago, chewy said:

Yes true, but at the same time need a collective effort and too many times it’s line individual performances like Pandya in Test 1, or Kohli in Test 2

 

but my overall point is, India has such a big pool of batsmen and these are guys are the best but they are falling woefully short, irrespective of one or two selection blunders, as batting unit India should be posting 1st innings 300 plus regularly (like in Home Tests) irrespective of pitch conditions 

 

example we always laugh at England, but England batting unit more often then not post 300 plus playing whether playing in India or South Africa or Australia

Again, England have a very steady XI and whoever is given a chance is given a few games. There is no Merry Go Round going on.

[mani sha]

skill level - pujara is a flat track bully and poor runner

rahane - poor spin player

kohli - not a good bat in swing 

rahul and vijay - our best test bats . facing best attacks 

 

rohit - lazy , sharma . enuf said

 

bring in shaw , give nair a longer rope . make rahane captain in tests and see this team will win ( kick shastri out)

[CG]

Agree with Op too much Chopping and changing helps none.They should have given Dhawan this full series if he flopped invest In Rahul.Even Vijay is at end of his career.We need to look for opener.Middle order has been exposed every Innings.

[swapnil123]

2 hours ago, chewy said:

I don’t buy this theory. I just think these Indian batsmen barring Kohli are just not good enough to play quick, bouncy or swinging bowling on helpful pitches.

These guys are pros and with all the politicos, their basic skill set should not abandon them 

 

lets not foget many of these guys struggle on rank turners too. 

 

The successor to fab 4 was a false dawn. 

If something drastic is not done before England tour then expect more bloodshed 

 

I think one thing BCCI could have done is play ODIs before Test matches (besides obviously arrange warm ups) 

Kohli has been good in swinging conditions?  Since when?

[Shunya]

Watching this team it seems everyone is just scared s.h.i.t everytime they are on field against tough opposition/stage. Trying to hard to show aggression even when its not in their nature trying to be in good books of the captain.

Kohli actually puts a lot of pressure on the players. We will eventually turn into chokers. 

[Forever Indian]

17 minutes ago, Shunya said:

Watching this team it seems everyone is just scared s.h.i.t everytime they are on field against tough opposition/stage. Trying to hard to show aggression even when its not in their nature trying to be in good books of the captain.

Kohli actually puts a lot of pressure on the players. We will eventually turn into chokers. 

Pretending aggression and then saying 'Come to India' is what Kohli and his aggression buddies are good for.

 

One of the true aggressive cricketer in India - Kumble was conveniently ousted from team so that they have no one controlling them.

[jusarrived]

Been saying this for for over 12 months .

This and not knowing when to play 5/6 batsmen are two main reasons why we wont win anything . All you need is to do the basics right with this team , has enough talent to win away imo .

[Shunya]

8 minutes ago, Forever Indian said:

Pretending aggression and then saying 'Come to India' is what Kohli and his aggression buddies are good for.

 

One of the true aggressive cricketer in India - Kumble was conveniently ousted from team so that they have no one controlling them.

I think this "aggression" is similar to "secular" term which we use in India/Media. 

So basically we will have to figure out what is true aggression and Pseudo aggression.

[jusarrived]

2 hours ago, chewy said:

Yes true, but at the same time need a collective effort and too many times it’s line individual performances like Pandya in Test 1, or Kohli in Test 2

 

but my overall point is, India has such a big pool of batsmen and these are guys are the best but they are falling woefully short, irrespective of one or two selection blunders, as batting unit India should be posting 1st innings 300 plus regularly (like in Home Tests) irrespective of pitch conditions 

 

example we always laugh at England, but England batting unit more often then not post 300 plus playing whether playing in India or South Africa or Australia

Lets go back to our last tours to SA / Eng/ NZ / Aus ..the very same batsmen but with little or no experience , how did they manage to do well ? infact considering their first tours , these guys had done better than fab 4 ..and now 3 years later with more experience and at a age when most batsmen peak and on their second tour all of them are getting found out ? 

[jusarrived]

7 minutes ago, Shunya said:

I think this "aggression" is similar to "secular" term which we use in India/Media. 

So basically we will have to figure out what is true aggression and Pseudo aggression.

You just need to have a good strategy to win , Ganguly and Dhoni both where relatively defensive and you can still win . In fact Dravid was an exception , only one I can think of who was relatively aggressive on the field . you can clearly see that with his coaching in with U19 and DD . 

 

Viart , having the benefit of supporting RCB ..has always been clueless . 

 

 

 

[Shunya]

40 minutes ago, jusarrived said:

Lets go back to our last tours to SA / Eng/ NZ / Aus ..the very same batsmen but with little or no experience , how did they manage to do well ? infact considering their first tours , these guys had done better than fab 4 ..and now 3 years later with more experience and at a age when most batsmen peak and on their second tour all of them are getting found out ? 

Agreed. I also get the same feeling, there is no shortage of talent. Management and the captain/coach need to sort their s.h.it out. So many of these guys can turn out match winning performance with proper management. Maybe they are being pushed to do something which is uncharacteristic of their abilities. PR savvy people are ruining the career of some of these players.

[mancalledsting]

no, this is what happens when you have crap batsmen

[mishra]

4 hours ago, Forever Indian said:

I know the batsmen have been highly disappointing this series, and they are to be blamed for this series loss. But when you look a bit deeper, other than Kohli (because he is a batsman) is there any other batsman who is not playing for their place?

 

Vijay, Rahul, Pujara, Rahane, even buddies Dhawan and Rohit - Who is sure about their place? When you have been the best bowler and 2nd best batsman and then dropped for next test - What message does it send to the players?

 

..

To top it off, no youngsters are given chances and when given chance discarded at first opportunity (Jayant Yadav, Kuldeep, Karun Nair, etc.) and discards are got into team (Parthiv, Dinesh Karthik, Gambhir, etc.).

To begin with, We play too much cricket. There is no gaps between various series. And hence we are under-prepared.

 

This is exactly the reason I always say, make a pool of batsmen and bowlers . BCCI should make a central contract with every player in pool and minimum number of games each player (overseas and local) they will represent per year. Let media and fans know that we have got such system.

[coffee_rules]

Rahane getting dropped, Bhuvi getting dropped, Vijay-Rahul-Dhawan musical chair, confusing Pujara, Choosing talent over and over again despite umpteen failures, Yadav getting axed after a great 2017 are the signs of a difficult confused captain. We need a coach who cuts the big ego of the delhi-boy and give constructive feedback. Not an yesman like nicky shots over there.

[Khota]

Based on the product you saw except for Kohli why should any batsman be sure of his place. 

 

A player should never ever feel secured about his place in the team.