All said and done, we are just not good enough

[G_B_]

There were selection issues and India did lose the toss. We also had no warm ups.

 

But honestly I think there was a difference in quality in the sides. I doubt that would change if we had played a few warm ups or even selected Rahane etc.

 

Look at England in the Ashes, had warm ups etc. The gulf in quality was big enough that all these factors did not matter.

 

Are these A tours really working? I mean whats the point. Makes no difference. 

 

 

 

 

 

[mancalledsting]

9 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

There were selection issues and India did lose the toss. We also had no warm ups.

 

But honestly I think there was a difference in quality in the sides. I doubt that would change if we had played a few warm ups or even selected Rahane etc.

 

Look at England in the Ashes, had warm ups etc. The gulf in quality was big enough that all these factors did not matter.

 

Are these A tours really working? I mean whats the point. Makes no difference. 

 

 

 

 

 

Geebz. I truly believe if our fielding was better and we played KL and Rahane from the start....we MAY have scraped these two tests in our favour. Despite that, it doesn't mask the fact that our batting for the most part is woefully out of depth. 

[Deleted_User_1]

Yes, we are just not good enough, but there are several reasons for this abject performance. 

 

You can't go into a tough overseas series without any preparation. Yes, we could have still performed poorly if we went to SA several weeks before, had match practice, etc., but the odds wouldn't be stacked against us as much it did just landing in SA days before the first test and practicing only at the nets. You want to put yourself in the best position to succeed and the BCCI aussholes neither realize that nor do they care. I do not even know if the team leadership relayed the need for match preparation to BCCI. Instead we played meaningless ODI series at home against SL. Again, due to the schedule, Kohli scheduled his marriage and all the parties days before the trip which could not have helped him focus personally and as a team.

 

Team leadership is horrible. Questionable captaincy decisions and Shastri is nothing but a yes man. Look at how he interviewed when Kumble got the job, via Skype from Bangkok. It shows that he has a sense of entitlement about it and got pissed when he did not get the job.

 

Indian batsman lack the technique to survive in alien conditions. They are very comfortable in favorable conditions, but do not have the ability to adapt. This is attributed to lack of discipline, lack of mental toughness, the will to win, hard work, sense of entitlement and getting complacent easily. They also have a tendency to crumble under pressure. This team needs a team psychologist as much as it needs coach and physical trainer. Haven't we seen this over and over again (ever since I have been watching cricket)? Cricketers change over the years, but these traits remain. Why? Look at what they did with Kumble? His tough approach to coaching made people uncomfortable. I knew this team was doomed when they replaced him for a Yes / party man.

 

Because of this, Indians are always good on paper, but when the chips are down they never deliver, especially away. Add to that the fact that we have never had 1 or 2 spearhead fast bowlers who can significantly influence the game. Add to this the horrible organizational performance of BCCI, nepotism, favoring profits over performance, etc. etc. We may have talents coming up in the domestic scene, but I guarantee you it will not result in overseas win performances because of some of the reasons I mentioned above. India will always play and do well at home, but they will continue to fail abroad in alien conditions. There may be a win or two here and there, but they simply cannot win consistently to considered a ATG team. 

 

Kohli is doing fine with his individual performances, but his arrogance his coming in the way of introspection, and from questioning his own decision making. How is he going to improve then? Idiot Shastri will just say yes to everything and the rest of the team will get disillusioned when they cannot lean on good leadership. Mental state of mind is as important as technique in achieving success in sports.

 

Look at India with sports in general. What are we good at? Almost nothing. We suck at soccer, or hockey (although hockey is improving) hardly win any medals in Olympics and given the amount of infrastructure and popularity of cricket in India, we are not very good unless we are playing at home.

 

Nothing is going to change in the short term. We will lose this test series 0-3, probably lose the ODI series as well. Then in England and Australia tours we will repeat the same mistakes (lack of preparation) and get whacked again. In the meantime, there will be IPL tamasha and once we start playing at home, all will be forgotten and these cricketers will think they are on top of the world.

 

Edited January 18, 2018 by rahulrulezz

[cowboysfan]

I dont believe that,we should have won the second test  but we really shot ourselves in the foot so many times with selection and brain farts.

[Cricketics]

When players like Vijay, Rahul, Pujara, Keeper(Saha/Parthiv)or Dhawan fail, you can’t expect much from the team.

 

Only one guy looks like scoring runs and that is Kohli. Pandya played well in the first test but even he looks ok.

 

If your top order can’t add any runs, then you are not drawing a test in South Africa, forget about winning.

 

Yes, some poor selections from Kohli, but we lost because of poor batting from whatever line up we have played.

 

Rahane must play but again, he alone can’t save India.

 

Our batting has sucked totally. All the hype behind Vijay and Rahul, they both sucked along with Dhawan who sucked too. I would continue to back Rahul but Vijay must be monitored. He hasn’t done anything special after that knock in Australia on the last day. He has only scored at home just like any other scorer in Indian conditions and there also his average has regressed since that Aus tour. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Deleted_User_1]

2 hours ago, Cricketics said:

When players like Vijay, Rahul, Pujara, Keeper(Saha/Parthiv)or Dhawan fail, you can’t expect much from the team.

 

Only one guy looks like scoring runs and that is Kohli. Pandya played well in the first test but even he looks ok.

 

If your top order can’t add any runs, then you are not drawing a test in South Africa, forget about winning.

 

Yes, some poor selections from Kohli, but we lost because of poor batting from whatever line up we have played.

 

Rahane must play but again, he alone can’t save India.

 

Our batting has sucked totally. All the hype behind Vijay and Rahul, they both sucked along with Dhawan who sucked too. I would continue to back Rahul but Vijay must be monitored. He hasn’t done anything special after that knock in Australia on the last day. He has only scored at home just like any other scorer in Indian conditions and there also his average has regressed since that Aus tour. 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes our batting sucked, but ask yourself why did it suck? These same players score bunches on home tracks in favorable conditions. Why do they then fail when exposed to alien conditions? This is nothing new. This happens almost every overseas tour. This is because they are not putting themselves in the best position to succeed. This means getting used to alien conditions to the best of their ability before the contest begins. Also getting into the proper frame of mind before an important tour. And practice, practice, practice in the alien conditions, show discipline in their execution, have a never say die attitude, show grit and mental toughness, and backed by good team selection & good captaincy.

 

We have seen none of these. And it does not help if you land up few days before the contest begins. The key to performing at a high level in alien conditions is learn to adapt well. Adaptation is human nature. When you fly to India it takes a few days for your body to adapt to Indian conditions and time. It's called jet lag. You adapt to it by taking rest and even do things to accelerate adaptation. Same principle here, you give yourself enough time to adapt to the SA conditions by arriving early, practicing your heart out, playing several warm up games, etc. There phuckers arrived in SA 3-4 days before the 1st test. How is someone supposed to adapt to cricket in SA conditions when they not even given their bodies enough time to adapt to SA time? I find it astounding that this won't be apparent to the Indian think tank. I think it does, but they do not care or are too complacent or lazy to put in the hard work.

Edited January 18, 2018 by dandaroy

[Khota]

Unfortunately there is some type of problem.

[deathmonger]

No I don't believe that. Previous overseas matches we used to be smashed. The match would be over by our 2nd innings itself. This time we competed well till falling away in the end in the 4th. And batting crumbling in overseas tours is not true. The last two Eng matches in the prev cycle were the only ones where it happened. Everywhere else runs had scored. Thing is in the poor selection. The top 5 of Rahul, Vijay, Pujara, Kohli, Rahane should have played every match. No one performs in every match. They would have given you a 80-100 in one innings, a 40-50 in another and low scores in the rest and that is enough. You cannot expect to put in some batsman and expect him to perform. Rahane may be put in and flop but that doesnt mean he would have flopped over 6 innings. Amla has played just one good innings as has Elgar as has Markram but that has been enough. Vijay and Pujara's styles have been completely impacted due to Kohli's "intent" obsession. Vijay used to leave everything outside off, Pujara is now trying to manufacture singles that are not there. All because they are scared of losing their places to Rohit and Dhawan.

[Cricketics]

1 hour ago, dandaroy said:

Yes our batting sucked, but ask yourself why did it suck? These same players score bunches on home tracks in favorable conditions. Why do they then fail when exposed to alien conditions? This is nothing new. This happens almost every overseas tour. This is because they are not putting themselves in the best position to succeed. This means getting used to alien conditions to the best of their ability before the contest begins. Also getting into the proper frame of mind before an important tour. And practice, practice, practice in the alien conditions, show discipline in their execution, have a never say die attitude, show grit and mental toughness, and backed by good team selection & good captaincy.

 

We have seen none of these. And it does not help if you land up few days before the contest begins. The key to performing at a high level in alien conditions is learn to adapt well. Adaptation is human nature. When you fly to India it takes a few days for your body to adapt to Indian conditions and time. It's called jet lag. You adapt to it by taking rest and even do things to accelerate adaptation. Same principle here, you give yourself enough time to adapt to the SA conditions by arriving early, practicing your heart out, playing several warm up games, etc. There phuckers arrived in SA 3-4 days before the 1st test. How is someone supposed to adapt to cricket in SA conditions when they not even given their bodies enough time to adapt to SA time? I find it astounding that this won't be apparent to the Indian think tank. I think it does, but they do not care or are too complacent or lazy to put in the hard work.

Thats been the cry. No one succeeds without practice and practice for such alien conditions is a must whoch we lacked.

 

Board has to be blamed more than anything.

 

Whatever they do, Indian team does like participating in IPL or playing random series against Lanka, then same board is to be blamed for not arranging the team’s tour to South Africa few more weeks earlier.

 

When you can pay for the visiting team to India for their hotels for a month before their first test so they can warm up and get used to the Indian conditions, you should be willing to pay for the Indian team’s visit early to South Africa in case their board refuse to accept to pay for the Indian team that early when on tour.

 

We are used to fking the schedule up every time, and this is one more instance.

 

[Captain]

4 hours ago, dandaroy said:

 You want to put yourself in the best position to succeed and the BCCI aussholes neither realize that nor do they care. I do not even know if the team leadership relayed the need for match preparation to BCCI.

You got it the other way around.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/cricket/reports-team-management-declined-bcci-s-offer-to-send-test-specialists-to-sa-early-for-preparation

 

Quote

"

The BCCI had offered Indian team management that the core group of Test team can be sent to South Africa early. Players like Murali Vijay, Cheteshwar Pujara, Ajinkya Rahane are not part of limited overs cricket and were playing local cricket here. The BCCI was ready to bear the cost but team management showed no interest and declined the offer. We were even ready to let top players skip ODI and T20 legs of the series against Sri Lanka," said a BCCI official.

Top players probably wanted to pad up their stats against the weak Lankan team.

When BCCI has more common sense than the team management then you know that you are dealing with id*ots.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Captain

[SK_IH]

i agree, a completely overrated and overhyped team for dont know what reasons,average bowlers ,their best is far from winning anything ,only bowler with respectable stats is deemed as "certain conditions" bowlers

in so far as batting is concerned, there were always question marks and all turned out to be true,just like any other side in the world these days kings at home and poor overseas

[Deleted_User_1]

9 minutes ago, Captain said:

You got it the other way around.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/cricket/reports-team-management-declined-bcci-s-offer-to-send-test-specialists-to-sa-early-for-preparation

 

Top players probably wanted to pad up their stats against the weak Lankan team.

When BCCI has more common sense than the team management then you know that you are dealing with id*ots.

There is enough blame to go around. BCCI should have had no series before this tour and forced the team to go ahead of time and the Indian team for not wanting to go. The latter is just shameful. Just awful. This shows they just do not care.

[kirkutfan]

Just wondering. When we get out of India do we get too far away from what our strengths are. For example our quick bowlers have never assumed the primary strikers' role. They back our spinners. So regardless of wicket if we go with 2 spinners like say Kuldeep  and Ashwin backed by two quicks and Pandya- are we better off? Kuldeep might pose more questions even on a quick wkt than say a guy like Ishant. Similarly getting guys who are historically one day specialists- Rohit, Dhawan to replace guys like Rahane was a gamble that misfired. I don't know. In hindsight maybe we tinkered too much with a successful combination. Maybe we still lose, but we might have given ourselves a better chance. Anyway, hopefully we learn from this and get better as we go along. Play the last test and Odis well, work out a good game plan for the next international series in England. I still believe this team can get better and become successful abroad. Finally, all these fitness tests like the yo yo, and we don't catch well. These guys can do so much better...

[Straight Drive]

We are awesome in our conditions, no doubt about it. When have  thrashed Aussies, Saffers, England, Lankans etc at home. 

 

It did not take even one day on overseas tour to make us the worst once we were out in unfamiliar conditions. 

 

This same team will thrash everyone when we play in India.

 

Problem here imo is that our batsmen are not equipped to succeed in all conditions, apart from Kohli and Chet to some extent.

 

This very same team will do better in ODI series in SA because wickets will be flat unlike in tests.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Straight Drive

[rkt.india]

The biggest difference was fielding. No team can win after dropping 10 catches in 2 tests. We dropped 5 catches of Smith at Pune and lost at home too.

[beetle]

If we had fielded better and if our players specially batsmen were not made so insecure about their spots, we would have done much better.

 

How can fielding be questioned if the skipper is leading the droppers pack?

Skipper again is responsible for making his players insecure.

[rkt.india]

You cant drop one of your top 3 test batsmen. 

[vivek04]

One of the biggest reasons of overseas failure is politics. Why on earth they are selecting failed players over and over again like Parthiv, ishant, rohit, pujara (poor overseas player) and then karthik. They are all proven failures of the past. 

[Shunya]

I feel with this team we could have won here. SA were s.h.i.t themselves and gave us so many chances to come back again n again in both the matches. The mismanagement is the reason for this loosing out. Players are mentally getting weaker because of insecurity and stuff. Also, Kohli leads the pack of worst fielding side in our history. Its shocking that this has been going on since more than a year now. Almost like its an acceptable thing.

Look for us to bounce back in 3rd Test when there is no pressure. Batsman will flourish since there would not be any demands from the management to show intent and no pressure to prove their worth every innings. Bowlers are doing a good job in any ways. Selection has to be taken care of by the captain in sensible manner. Make or break moments happen right there.

[renjith]

Zero preparation, poor selections, far too many soft dismissals... Still we got into winning positions in both the tests. Infact in both tests, we were just 1 good session away from win. So that means we are not that falling behind sa. Few things falling in place and I believe we can beat this sa team in their home.