Popular Post Forever Indian Posted January 19, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) Just having a look back at what happened with the Kohli- Kumble fiasco, it is clear that Kohli did not want Kumble even before he started as Coach. Have a look at these reports from the horses mouth: Shirke, who was part of the coach selection process last year, told The Indian Express: “There had been some murmurs about this (Kumble-Kohli rift) even at the time of Mr Kumble’s appointment. At that time, our president (Anurag Thakur) had taken the initiative and had a detailed discussion with both parties, and it was decided that since the cricket committee (CAC) had recommended Mr Kumble as the best option, we should go ahead with that. Therefore, I think the real reason for a one-year contract was that we would work and evolve, and see how this went, so as to keep the options open at a future date.” “Let us say he (Kohli) had his own views about it. And like I said, our president, Mr Thakur, took the initiative and told him that this was the unanimous choice of the cricket committee and we would have to abide by their recommendation and Kohli should accept it,” Shirke said. http://indianexpress.com/article/sports/cricket/virat-kohli-had-questions-on-anil-kumble-says-ex-secy-ajay-shirke-4685173/ We also had the case of Mr Shastri interviewing from Bangkok and then when he did not get the job was mouthing off in media as if he was entitled to be the Indian Coach. It was as if someone had promised him the role and he was pissed off as it didn't come through, and then he attacked Ganguly with personal remarks on media, and this is what Ganguly said: Ganguly said, “I have some advice for Shastri also—that you know when the coach of India is selected, it’s one of the most important jobs in cricket, you should be in front of the committee giving your presentation and not sit in Bangkok on a holiday and make a presentation on camera. Especially when one of the greatest cricketers of India of all time spoke for two hours nearly—Anil Kumble. So that’s my advice to him. I’m hurt because of the personal attack, which was not required. If he’s talking about respect, he should have been here as well.” http://www.livemint.com/Consumer/CjJTNcl7vPsDmOUD3Jbr3H/The-spat-dividing-Indian-cricketSourav-Ganguly-vs-Ravi-Shas.html Who in their right mind would have done an Indian team Coach interview over Skype, unless he is not interested in the job or has been said the interview was just a formality to get him the job? Linking the two together it was clear that Kohli wanted Shastri only at coach and hence was unhappy with Kumble's appointment. As far as I remember Kumble was the only coach who as given a One year tenure, previous coaches had a minimum of two years tenure. So Kohli later on saying that the team was not comfortable with Kumble's style is all Pure BS. It was pre-planned that Kumble should be ousted after his one year tenure. Champions Trophy final took place on 18th June, and this report from 8th June (10 days before the Final) clearly shows that Kphli had planned for all this even before the Champions Trophy started: "It is emerging that before the team left for England on May 23, Kohli had mentioned to both Sachin Tendulkar and VVS Laxman - two of the three-member cricket advisory committee - to consider Shastri's candidature. The Indian captain also requested both the former stars to invite Shastri for the interview process." https://www.indiatimes.com/sports/virat-kohli-wanted-ravi-shastri-to-be-india-s-new-coach-before-they-left-for-the-champions-trophy-323397.html It is very clear to me that it was not Kumble's skills or man management that lost him the Coach job, but rather another one of Kohli's nepotism. Edited January 19, 2018 by Forever Indian ThePhenomenal1, Vilander, Chandan and 9 others 9 3 Link to comment
Forever Indian Posted January 19, 2018 Author Share Posted January 19, 2018 @Gollum@Malcolm Merlyn@beetle@adi B@maniac@express bowling What are your thoughts? Link to comment
Pollack Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Was there any doubt to be honest? Been saying Kohli was the one responsible for Shastri as coach. Kumble was made 'bali Ka bakra' whom you feed first (1 year contract) and then kill him for the sake of your prayers. But naive Kohli fans could not believe their hero can do this. So blame game was pushed to Mumbai lobby, Sachin etc but of course not Kohli. Nonbeliever and Vilander 1 1 Link to comment
Forever Indian Posted January 19, 2018 Author Share Posted January 19, 2018 24 minutes ago, Pollack said: Was there any doubt to be honest? Been saying Kohli was the one responsible for Shastri as coach. Kumble was made 'bali Ka bakra' whom you feed first (1 year contract) and then kill him for the sake of your prayers. But naive Kohli fans could not believe their hero can do this. So blame game was pushed to Mumbai lobby, Sachin etc but of course not Kohli. I initially thought maybe Kohli did not get well along with Kumble in the one year he was as coach. But looking back regardless of how well Kumble would have performed it seems Kohli was destined to oust him and get Shastri as coach. GoldenSun 1 Link to comment
rkt.india Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 People are forgetting that Shastri was made the team director before Kumble when Fletcher was the coach. Kohli established a good rapport with Shastri then and wanted him as a coach but he instead got Kumble. Link to comment
Gollum Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 @Forever Indian spot on. I agree with your assessment. I also wonder about the extent of the role of Bunty Sajdeh in all of this. Bunty and Kohli are clearly working towards a plan where all possible threats to Kohli and Rohit will be eliminated so that there is a a 3 way split in the pie (Kohli will ofc get the largest share). That alone explains his asinine team selections where no one is allowed to feel secure. Different excuses are put forward to justify the absurd selection policy because tbh there is no rational way to explain the dichotomy between 'current form' and 'horse for courses'- the twin pillars which are being used at various points to unsettle certain players. Kumble wouldn't have allowed any of this, he was a fair guy who believed in a certain thought process and his decisions were consistent. No way could Kohli have wielded so much power with a thorough professional like Kumble around, Shastribot is a tool in the hands of Kohli to get what he wants. Shastribot is the highest paid coach in the world and he doesn't need to even coach, 24x7 sycophancy and he gets richer by 1.2 million USD every year. Bevda never had any interest in helping our team get better, poora din Kohli kaa * chato and raat ko sutta-daaru ki dukaan khojo. Kohli without any checks/balances can improve his brand value, and Bevda ain't complaining....both made for each other. Think of it from Kohli's angle, he wants to be the unchallenged monarch of Indian sports. He needs Bollywood to increase his reach and hence his choices of Bunty and Anushka. He doesn't give a **** about Team India, it's all about personal records, global reach and bank balance. Ideally he would need no coach but then who's the fall guy? There has to be a coach so that he becomes the fall guy to absorb criticism, Kohli's skin is too thin and ego too fragile to handle criticism. So he needs a coach, who will he choose? A man with impeccable integrity and pride/patriotism or a drunken, shameless, well connected gigolo? Choice is simple really, Shastri not just acts like a wafadar slave dog of Kohli but he also knows how to tackle criticism no matter how foolish it all looks. Remember his whining when Nasser Hussain correctly called India's opposition to DRS as disgraceful. Watch how shamelessly that BCCI ka kutta defends his master and plays the 'jealous' card. Over the years Shastri has proved himself to be a loyal kutta to whomever he serves, now he serves Kohli. He can shrug off critics in his own way and through his connections with ex players and media persons, he can influence them to take the heat off Kohli. When Kohli was 1st appointed captain I didn't share the optimism of fellow ICFers. Kohli the batsman is not Kohli the man, now he has proved himself to be a dangerous politician with enormous powers, a master puppeteer who is using his public image and connections to benefit only himself, he is the Sauron of Indian cricket. When Julius Caesar tried to overthrow the Republic in favor of tyranny he was stabbed to death by many those who foresaw the doom of dictatorship, who will ensure the same in Indian cricket? We didn't halt post 2011 Dhoni, in stead we celebrated him and suffered immensely, same thing will be repeated here. Kohli will do more damage to Indian cricket than good, and his reign will run its course, Indian cricket ka kuch nahi hoga, we were always minnows and will remain so because that is our aukaat. All the U-19 success and talent talk is hogwash, nothing good will ever come out of it. beetle, nevada, sergio04 and 5 others 5 2 1 Link to comment
lamellavig Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 8 minutes ago, Gollum said: @Forever Indian spot on. I agree with your assessment. I also wonder about the extent of the role of Bunty Sajdeh in all of this. Bunty and Kohli are clearly working towards a plan where all possible threats to Kohli and Rohit will be eliminated so that there is a a 3 way split in the pie (Kohli will ofc get the largest share). That alone explains his asinine team selections where no one is allowed to feel secure. Different excuses are put forward to justify the absurd selection policy because tbh there is no rational way to explain the dichotomy between 'current form' and 'horse for courses'- the twin pillars which are being used at various points to unsettle certain players. Kumble wouldn't have allowed any of this, he was a fair guy who believed in a certain thought process and his decisions were consistent. No way could Kohli have wielded so much power with a thorough professional like Kumble around, Shastribot is a tool in the hands of Kohli to get what he wants. Shastribot is the highest paid coach in the world and he doesn't need to even coach, 24x7 sycophancy and he gets richer by 1.2 million USD every year. Bevda never had any interest in helping our team get better, poora din Kohli kaa * chato and raat ko sutta-daaru ki dukaan khojo. Kohli without any checks/balances can improve his brand value, and Bevda ain't complaining....both made for each other. Think of it from Kohli's angle, he wants to be the unchallenged monarch of Indian sports. He needs Bollywood to increase his reach and hence his choices of Bunty and Anushka. He doesn't give a **** about Team India, it's all about personal records, global reach and bank balance. Ideally he would need no coach but then who's the fall guy? There has to be a coach so that he becomes the fall guy to absorb criticism, Kohli's skin is too thin and ego too fragile to handle criticism. So he needs a coach, who will he choose? A man with impeccable integrity and pride/patriotism or a drunken, shameless, well connected gigolo? Choice is simple really, Shastri not just acts like a wafadar slave dog of Kohli but he also knows how to tackle criticism no matter how foolish it all looks. Remember his whining when Nasser Hussain correctly called India's opposition to DRS as disgraceful. Watch how shamelessly that BCCI ka kutta defends his master and plays the 'jealous' card. Over the years Shastri has proved himself to be a loyal kutta to whomever he serves, now he serves Kohli. He can shrug off critics in his own way and through his connections with ex players and media persons, he can influence them to take the heat off Kohli. When Kohli was 1st appointed captain I didn't share the optimism of fellow ICFers. Kohli the batsman is not Kohli the man, now he has proved himself to be a dangerous politician with enormous powers, a master puppeteer who is using his public image and connections to benefit only himself, he is the Sauron of Indian cricket. When Julius Caesar tried to overthrow the Republic in favor of tyranny he was stabbed to death by many those who foresaw the doom of dictatorship, who will ensure the same in Indian cricket? We didn't halt post 2011 Dhoni, in stead we celebrated him and suffered immensely, same thing will be repeated here. Kohli will do more damage to Indian cricket than good, and his reign will run its course, Indian cricket ka kuch nahi hoga, we were always minnows and will remain so because that is our aukaat. All the U-19 success and talent talk is hogwash, nothing good will ever come out of it. No, not really. I would rather that Kohli takes all criticism and strives to have a 5 bowler attack in the aim of taking 20 wickets. It would have been oh so easy for Kohli to take 6 batsmen, then relax and look at his bank account and blame the other batsmen, take no risks in team selection, then watch as his legends grows while other teammates get criticised. whereas now, despite his visionary and philosophical selections he is the one getting all the blame. That's just the way he likes it, he would rather not just relax and look at his bank account at the end of the night and avoid criticism. Link to comment
Khota Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Getting rid of Kumble was the dumbest thing BCCI ever did. The greatest cricket player of India and the best spin bowler in the world treated with so little respect is shameful. Solution: Three formats three captains and two coaches. ThePhenomenal1 and Gollum 1 1 Link to comment
lamellavig Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 6 minutes ago, Khota said: Getting rid of Kumble was the dumbest thing BCCI ever did. The greatest cricket player of India and the best spin bowler in the world treated with so little respect is shameful. Solution: Three formats three captains and two coaches. Rubbish, the 333 run defeat should have led to Kumble's sacking in the first place. Link to comment
Forever Indian Posted January 19, 2018 Author Share Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) 39 minutes ago, rkt.india said: People are forgetting that Shastri was made the team director before Kumble when Fletcher was the coach. Kohli established a good rapport with Shastri then and wanted him as a coach but he instead got Kumble. From when did having good rapport with Captain became the Sole Criteria for Coach selection? It was not as if he built rapport with Shastri as a "Coach". Also, from when did Captain become the Head of Cricket Advisory Committee which selects the coach? So next if Bunty Sajdeh builds good rapport with captain (which he already has), can he be made the Coach? Won't do a worse job than Shastri as a "Coach". Edited January 19, 2018 by Forever Indian Gollum and Samcric 2 Link to comment
lamellavig Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Forever Indian said: From when did having good rapport with Captain became the Sole Criteria for Coach selection? Also, from when did Captain become the Head of Cricket Advisory Committee which selects the coach? So next if Bunty Sajdeh builds good rapport with captain (which he already has), can he be made the Coach? Won't do a worse job than Shastri as a "Coach". Well, I would rather that a cricketer like Kohli has as much power as possible instead of the corrupt BCCI. Kohli takes all criticism and strives to have a 5 bowler attack in the aim of taking 20 wickets. It would have been oh so easy for Kohli to take 6 batsmen, then relax and look at his bank account and blame the other batsmen, take no risks in team selection, then watch as his legends grows while other teammates get criticised. whereas now, despite his visionary and philosophical selections he is the one getting all the blame. That's just the way he likes it, he would rather not just relax and look at his bank account at the end of the night and avoid criticism. Jimmy Cliff 1 Link to comment
Khota Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, lamellavig said: Rubbish, the 333 run defeat should have led to Kumble's sacking in the first place. Let us blame Kumble for that. Can he get credit for series win? Edited January 19, 2018 by Khota Link to comment
lamellavig Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Khota said: Let us blame Kumble for that. Yes, Kumble should be blamed. 333 run defeats are indicative of decadence, but Kumble did nothing to change some of the weaker links in the team. He should be blamed. Link to comment
rkt.india Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 9 minutes ago, Forever Indian said: From when did having good rapport with Captain became the Sole Criteria for Coach selection? It was not as if he built rapport with Shastri as a "Coach". Also, from when did Captain become the Head of Cricket Advisory Committee which selects the coach? So next if Bunty Sajdeh builds good rapport with captain (which he already has), can he be made the Coach? Won't do a worse job than Shastri as a "Coach". Greg Chappel was picked after Ganguly's advice. So, it has happened before. Link to comment
rkt.india Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Coach is very overrated at the international level. Link to comment
maniac Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, rkt.india said: Coach is very overrated at the international level. Yes,because coach cannot perform on the field but where you need strong management is at times to disagree with the captain and have a different view on things. While someone like Chappell can be a problem with his dictatorial approach,so can a Shastri with his yes man approach. Ankit_sharma03 1 Link to comment
Forever Indian Posted January 19, 2018 Author Share Posted January 19, 2018 8 minutes ago, lamellavig said: Well, I would rather that a cricketer like Kohli has as much power as possible instead of the corrupt BCCI. Kohli takes all criticism and strives to have a 5 bowler attack in the aim of taking 20 wickets. It would have been oh so easy for Kohli to take 6 batsmen, then relax and look at his bank account and blame the other batsmen, take no risks in team selection, then watch as his legends grows while other teammates get criticised. whereas now, despite his visionary and philosophical selections he is the one getting all the blame. That's just the way he likes it, he would rather not just relax and look at his bank account at the end of the night and avoid criticism. Wow, what constructive risks he took: Drop your best overseas batsman Rahane from overseas tests, and try to play him in LOIs which he is not good at Open with a proven test hack Dhawan in SA Drop a high potential youngster in KL Rahul from all formats Keep chopping and changing the XI every match so that no one is settled Get back Rohit Sharma into overseas Test XI in place of your best overseas bat and vice captain Drop your best bowler Bhuvi in next match Appoint a Dummy coach who says 'Yes' to whatever crap he spews This is only a small sample. Sure, highly philosophical and visionary thinking which only creatures from Mars can understand! GoldenSun, Gollum, wanted_desi and 3 others 3 3 Link to comment
Tattieboy Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 5 minutes ago, rkt.india said: Coach is very overrated at the international level. Why so many in here keep saying The bowling coach is terrible The fielding coach is terrible We have no batting coach? GoldenSun 1 Link to comment
Forever Indian Posted January 19, 2018 Author Share Posted January 19, 2018 8 minutes ago, rkt.india said: Greg Chappel was picked after Ganguly's advice. So, it has happened before. Suggestion is different from demanding sacking of current coach to replace him with someone who is just a 'Yes Man' for the captain. Link to comment
beetle Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) It was always clear kohli wanted shastri as coach/ cheerleader. He may have wanted kumble out and worked towards it but kumble helped him along with his ' head masterly ' attitude. Had kumble been a more flexible in his dealing with players to get the best out of them ( which is what a good teacher does) ....it would not have been so easy to get him out. At that point of time, kohli was not that strong. He could not have done it without help from the players at that stage of his captaincy. Edited January 19, 2018 by beetle Link to comment
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