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Holding: Kohli not great until he scores runs in England


saik

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Just now, Rightarmfast said:

I am not a Kohli fan at all, but you got to be blind to not see that the kid is a champ! 

He is 'a champ', not 'the champ'. I will be perfectly OK if he isn't lumped along with Bradman, Sobers, Viv, Sachin, Lara without the achievements to show.  But if some people have their way, there was no cricket before Kohli's debut. 

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5 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

I am not a Kohli fan at all, but you got to be blind to not see that the kid is a champ! 

Nobody is doubting that he is a very good player. It is his arrogant team selection and too much aggression that is leading to India’s problems in SA.

 

Also, he needs to sort out the horrendous record he has in England. 

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Virat Kohli will be judged at the end of his career  on test runs and average. 

That has never been spilt into what each player has done in every country , if  it had been there would be no greats before because every great has had a weakness someplace 

 

The same as golfers on Majors and Tennis greats on Grand Slam wins .

 

At the moment all the signs are both he and Steve Smith will fall into the great category but the end is time to judge not 3/4 through . 

 

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2 hours ago, Gollum said:

Kohli needs just 1 great WC and 1 great Eng tour to become a true undisputed great. Ponting was very good in the 2008 and 2010 tours to India, Warne was very good in the 2004 tour to India, and both of them owned the WC (Warne 1999, Ponting 2003 and 2007). 

Kohli has been miserable in WCs and the worst visiting batsman ever in England. 

we are still talking about one bad series , which I agree was very bad ..but I wundt give it too much weight-age at this point . 

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People must understand not everyone will sit down and kiss Kohli's ass 24x7. And Holding is not even criticizing him, called him 1 among the top 3 batsman of the current era which IMO is not downplaying. Bradman, Sachin, Lara, Kallis, Ponting etc have been called much worse, it comes with the parcel of being a truly great player. Once you reach a certain level your flaws will stand out much more brighter than your achievements. Look at Federer, guy has been a champion for the past 15 years, yet when he is compared to his peers his supposed shortcomings like clay resume, H2H deficit, chokes, poor BO5 record etc stand out.......you aren't comparing him with Yuki Bhambri, he is being measured against other ATGs. Similarly here Kohli isn't been judged on the yardstick of a Collingwood or Michael Slater........line is much much higher. 

Edited by Gollum
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3 hours ago, Gollum said:

Kohli needs just 1 great WC and 1 great Eng tour to become a true undisputed great. Ponting was very good in the 2008 and 2010 tours to India, Warne was very good in the 2004 tour to India, and both of them owned the WC (Warne 1999, Ponting 2003 and 2007). 

Kohli has been miserable in WCs and the worst visiting batsman ever in England

Sure about that?

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_positionmax2=4;batting_positionval2=batting_position;class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;host=1;orderby=batting_average;orderbyad=reverse;qualmin1=6;qualval1=innings;template=results;type=batting;view=series

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9 minutes ago, Turbanator said:

I am pretty sure Kallis had an average of above 40 in England by the end of his career. It is up to Kohli to improve his record, 5 tests is already a large enough sample size unlike 2/3 tests. 

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4 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Bowling average of 48 and SR of 112 was very pathetic in the 1970s and '80s

 

One thing is ... one series is not sufficient to judge any player ... a bad habit creeps in and there is not sufficient time to rectify it, especially these days with packed schedules.

 

The other thing is ... Holding just finds faults with Indians and is highly biased against us.

Most old West Indies players have not gotten over 1983 loss yet.

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17 minutes ago, MechEng said:

Most old West Indies players have not gotten over 1983 loss yet.

I think Holding is an exception, him and Bucknor (+ may be Lloyd the match ref but tbh he seemed to have a problem only with Dada) are the 2 WI chewts who seem to hate India. Viv has always been so gracious when talking about Indian cricketers, same with Bishop. Sobers invited many Indian cricketers for his 80th birthday and in his toast proclaimed Gavaskar as the GOAT batsman. Haynes voluntarily helped Sehwag and Jaffar in our 2006 tour there, spent time with them etc, he was lavish n his praise of Viru especially IIRC. I am struggling to think of other WI names who have been distinctly anti India. 

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