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Forever Indian

Time to make Shami an ODI only bowler

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Fitness and Consistency wise Shami seems a goner in tests. If you are bowling worse than Ishant, that tells a thing or two. Just had one good spell in three tests so far, and also seems like may break down anytime in middle of match.

 

With the 2019 WC coming up better to make him just play ODIs which he has been very good at usually. For tests IMO only Bhuvi and Bumrah to some extent seem sure starters, so we need to try new youngsters starting with Saini before England tour.

Edited by Forever Indian

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5 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

And who will play him ODIs? Kohli chose 2 spinners against Pakistan in CT 17 final. Shami didn't even get a game in that tournament despite being a very good ODI bowler.

Kohli should hopefully grow a few more grey cells and learn from the CT final drubbing and play 3 frontline pacers.

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19 minutes ago, Pollack said:

He is a better ODI bowler,no doubt. But he hasn't done bad this series tbh. He has been erratic.

his stats dont show how bad he has done this series. he has repeatedly been missing when needed and picked wickets especially last test when game was over. There is no intensity or focus in his bowling.

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8 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

his stats dont show how bad he has done this series. he has repeatedly been missing when needed and picked wickets especially last test when game was over. There is no intensity or focus in his bowling.

I think if Bk  bumrah hadnt been picking off top order wickets he would probably be averaging 40+ which is criminal in on these pitches. 

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14 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

his stats dont show how bad he has done this series. he has repeatedly been missing when needed and picked wickets especially last test when game was over. There is no intensity or focus in his bowling.

Yep. Bowled rubbish whenever wickets were falling from the other end and released all the pressure. 

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Shami is outstanding when wickets are slow and there is reverse swing. On helpful and bouncy pitches he seems to be lost. Cant forget the  jo’berg test where SA almost chase down 450 on fifth day with shami keep on bowling short balls only to be hit for boundaries repeatedly 

IMO Ind should invest in u19 bowlers like porel, mavi when they are young and hungry for success 

 

Edited by joe777z
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At the moment he is struggling or I would say taking too long to settle his rhythm and you can't afford that in Odis it will make things worse, best thing make him practice hard  in nets, god knows  what's that fatty bowling coach is doing anyway   until then we can try some young fresh bowlers like siani or thakur.

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Shami is wasting new ball and he doesn't look fully fit but somehow he manages to make a comeback in the second innings.he bowls late spells in India @140k,here in saf he has been up and down with his speed,but he's an asset on dry wkts with reverse swing in offer ,can't drop him altogether 

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His attitude is the problem. Read his interview a couple weeks ago where he was saying that bowlers need to preserve themselves and not go all out.. that he knows when to go fast and when to hold back.. 

He has been the weakest bowling link this series  - should be kicked down to doemstics. We need hungry pacers who want to perform at all costs for the country. And if he was off in 1 test, i would accept it but he has been below par all along except for one spell. There is no dearth of young pacers now - so dont go by past records, look at current state of players. 

 

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SHami is very good when he is bowling on abrasive surfaces. He brings his reverse swing into play. He is not used to swinging the Kookaburra. But he has to learn eventually. He just looked flat on this helpful surface. He is not the only guy who have this issue. Umesh against bangladesh ODI looked flat where Binny took 6 for 4.  We have very few in the squad to exploit swinging conditions.

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I won't take that drastic call yet. He is good but like I have said previously, don't depend on him too much.

 

I believe he has his shades of world class moments when he is unplayable, and even though we should be happy with the options we have, we shouldn't assume that we aer Australian bowling line up or South Africa.

 

Bhuvi and all down the line might need some rest and we might have to rotate them for different reasons, we don't know. So we can't just discard Shami as yet.

 

Sensible thing is to keep Shami in the squads and play him and rotate him well but don't depend on him being the leader. You can't be the leader with that fitness. He can surely do better job than Ishant though when crippled, so I rather have a crippled Shami than full fit Ishant.

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57 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

I won't take that drastic call yet. He is good but like I have said previously, don't depend on him too much.

 

I believe he has his shades of world class moments when he is unplayable, and even though we should be happy with the options we have, we shouldn't assume that we aer Australian bowling line up or South Africa.

 

Bhuvi and all down the line might need some rest and we might have to rotate them for different reasons, we don't know. So we can't just discard Shami as yet.

 

Sensible thing is to keep Shami in the squads and play him and rotate him well but don't depend on him being the leader. You can't be the leader with that fitness. He can surely do better job than Ishant though when crippled, so I rather have a crippled Shami than full fit Ishant.

No he needs to improve his fitness or he is outta here!!

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1 minute ago, dandaroy said:

No he needs to improve his fitness or he is outta here!!

We can take that decision when Saini and co have done well. Right now we are still perplexed if we have 3 quality bowlers to players as we somehow keep bringing Ishant and Umesh every time.

 

Only consistent bowler is Bhuvi. With him Bumrah should be kept now for England tour. So now comes option to play other bowlers. I would give chance to Saini now. But If in case he is not working, we must have back ups, and hence Shami can't be discarded at this time.

 

He should be down the line, once we have played Saini enough and if he is doing well.

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1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

SHami is very good when he is bowling on abrasive surfaces. He brings his reverse swing into play. He is not used to swinging the Kookaburra. But he has to learn eventually. He just looked flat on this helpful surface. He is not the only guy who have this issue. Umesh against bangladesh ODI looked flat where Binny took 6 for 4.  We have very few in the squad to exploit swinging conditions.

his bowling on this tour has nothing to do with the pitches.  he just did not look focused and up for the task.  looked disinterested.  Whenever he did in patches, he bowled well and picked wickets.

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1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

his bowling on this tour has nothing to do with the pitches.  he just did not look focused and up for the task.  looked disinterested.  Whenever he did in patches, he bowled well and picked wickets.

Something is wrong n I don't think it's just fitness, coach? Home?

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8 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

his bowling on this tour has nothing to do with the pitches.  he just did not look focused and up for the task.  looked disinterested.  Whenever he did in patches, he bowled well and picked wickets.

On pitches like this you don't even have to make great effort. If someone asks me to pick the best Indian bowlers of all time in swinging conditions Shami would not be anywhere near the top. He will come behind guys like Roger Binny. He is a good bowler. But not an all season bowler who can do well everywhere. He is just not equipped enough. I am not just talking about wicket column. I am talking about how he creates chances, poses problems to batsmen in these conditions. He has some unique skill sets which will work on flat tracks. 

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3 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

On pitches like this you don't even have to make great effort. If someone asks me to pick the best Indian bowlers of all time in swinging conditions Shami would not be anywhere near the top. He will come behind guys like Roger Binny. He is a good bowler. But not an all season bowler who can do well everywhere. He is just not equipped enough. I am not just talking about wicket column. I am talking about how he creates chances, poses problems to batsmen in these conditions. He has some unique skill sets which will work on flat tracks. 

on these pitches, it is all about hitting the ball in good length areas with seam, which he struggled to do. You dont need some magic, but just keeping things simple and he struggled to do that.  Did not hit the deck when he bowled in that area, just looped up. If he had done that he should have been more effective with his upright seam position. He either bowled too full or half trackers and that too at slow speeds and went for runs and he wont be successful anywhere if he bowls this way anywhere whether flat pitch or green pitch.  

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1 hour ago, Cricketics said:

I won't take that drastic call yet. He is good but like I have said previously, don't depend on him too much.

 

I believe he has his shades of world class moments when he is unplayable, and even though we should be happy with the options we have, we shouldn't assume that we aer Australian bowling line up or South Africa.

 

Bhuvi and all down the line might need some rest and we might have to rotate them for different reasons, we don't know. So we can't just discard Shami as yet.

 

Sensible thing is to keep Shami in the squads and play him and rotate him well but don't depend on him being the leader. You can't be the leader with that fitness. He can surely do better job than Ishant though when crippled, so I rather have a crippled Shami than full fit Ishant.

Are you sure of that. Ishant was far more impressive than Shami in this test match even though the wickets column look the same. Shami was leaking a boundary every over almost and Ishant has created a chance with ABDV too which could have been given had India referred the decision. 

And you being from Delhi and having such a low regard for Ishant really surprises me.... :thinking:

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7 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

on these pitches, it is all about hitting the ball in good length areas with seam, which he struggled to do. You dont need some magic, but just keeping things simple and he struggled to do that.  Did not hit the deck when he bowled in that area, just looped up. If he had done that he should have been more effective with his upright seam position. He either bowled too full or half trackers and that too at slow speeds and went for runs and he wont be successful anywhere if he bowls this way anywhere whether flat pitch or green pitch.  

Even if you hit bad length you should see some swing. NOthing really happening for him. He couldn't land one ball in the right area? I am sure he did. Only time i see him swing big is when the ball is scruffed up and he reverses. He brings out banana inswingers at times. With new ball he is just that not effective.

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Just now, sarcastic said:

Are you sure of that. Ishant was far more impressive than Shami in this test match even though the wickets column look the same. Shami was leaking a boundary every over almost and Ishant has created a chance with ABDV too which could have been given had India referred the decision. 

And you being from Delhi and having such a low regard for Ishant really surprises me.... :thinking:

You know how white people always say they like rap and name a random rapper to sound non racist or start a sentence with I am not racist but...

 

Ishant is his card at showing balance :giggle:

 

Just an analogy not calling tics a racist...he is a good guy 

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46 minutes ago, sarcastic said:

Are you sure of that. Ishant was far more impressive than Shami in this test match even though the wickets column look the same. Shami was leaking a boundary every over almost and Ishant has created a chance with ABDV too which could have been given had India referred the decision. 

And you being from Delhi and having such a low regard for Ishant really surprises me.... :thinking:

Man I don't give a damn about Delhi bowlers. If they are doing well, I well praise them, if not, then I will want them out of the team.

 

Ishant has had many chances. I supported him uptill certain point. After you have been given endless chances and you still don't help the team's cause, then you deserve to be replaced.

 

 

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1 hour ago, maniac said:

@express bowling ur views....is there any upside to Shami to continue in tests?

 

Shami is still our best test match pacer in Asia.  That too by a distance.

 

Regarding test matches outside Asia, he was a first year rookie in 2013-14.

 

In this series, he is not looking fully fit to me.  I have never seen him bowl below 135 k, not even when he was playing with serious injury in WC 2015  or Eng 2016.  But he has done that in the first innings of both the first and 2nd tests.  That maybe a sign of some niggle or issue that he has.

 

He has done well in the 2nd innings of both the 1st and 2nd test.

 

I would like to see how he does in England before deciding about his bowling ability in tests outside Asia.

 

I want to Bumrah, Shami, Bhuvi and Saini to be our pacer pool for England 2018 test tour. 

 

 

Edited by express bowling

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1 hour ago, Forever Indian said:

Is this the first match you are seeing this series?

He bowled well the first test.  Got three wickets in the second innings..

Second test was a flattish deck.. wouldn't read too much into it..

This test he was wayward and doesn't look ready.. hoping he does well in the second innings like he did in the first test. 

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14 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

Even if you hit bad length you should see some swing. NOthing really happening for him. He couldn't land one ball in the right area? I am sure he did. Only time i see him swing big is when the ball is scruffed up and he reverses. He brings out banana inswingers at times. With new ball he is just that not effective.

but i have seen seam the ball before. His Duleep trophy debut that brought him into limelight is the biggest example. That was a greenish pitch and he seamed the ball both ways.

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12 hours ago, bowl_out said:

He bowled well the first test.  Got three wickets in the second innings..

Second test was a flattish deck.. wouldn't read too much into it..

This test he was wayward and doesn't look ready.. hoping he does well in the second innings like he did in the first test. 

bowled well first test? he was poor in the first. he was the biggest reason SA got away when they were 12/3. He released all the pressure which BK had built from his end. 

Edited by rkt.india

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1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

but i have seen seam the ball before. His Duleep trophy debut that brought him into limelight is the biggest example. That was a greenish pitch and he seamed the ball both ways.

He is still not a great new ball bowler. 

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On 1/25/2018 at 9:20 AM, bowl_out said:

one off day... he'll do well in the second innings...

i'll keep him to Tests...

Bhuvi and Bumrah for ODIs

 

On 1/25/2018 at 9:27 AM, Forever Indian said:

Is this the first match you are seeing this series?

You’re welcome. 4-fer. Might get one more

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3 minutes ago, Forever Indian said:

Happy to accept Egg on face if Shami wins us matches like this!

 

Well done Shami, seems to have become a 2nd innings specialist :giggle:

 

This is the Shami we want to see throughout the match.

At least you accepted Shami is top bowler in 2nd innings. What makes him do that.

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We need to be more patient ,  (  just like the bowlers need to be  )

 

Shami highest wicket-taker of the series at an average of 17,  SR of  33

 

 

Overall figures
Player Mat Inns Overs Mdns Runs WktsDescending BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 5 10  
Mohammed Shami (INDIA) 3 6 83.3 16 256 15 5/28 6/74 17.06 3.06 33.4 1 0 investigate this query
VD Philander (SA) 3 6 96.2 33 238 15 6/42 9/75 15.86 2.47 38.5 1 0 investigate this query
K Rabada (SA) 3 6 104.4 22 304 15 3/34 6/108 20.26 2.90 41.8 0 0 investigate this query
JJ Bumrah (INDIA) 3 6 112.1 16 353 14 5/54 7/111 25.21 3.14 48.0 1 0 investigate this query
M Morkel (SA) 3 6 98.1 26 260 13 4/60 5/94 20.00 2.64 45.3 0 0 investigate this query
B Kumar (INDIA) 2 4 67.0 22 203 10 4/87 6/120 20.30 3.02 40.2 0 0 investigate this query
L Ngidi (SA) 2 4 53.2 14 155 9 6/39 7/90 17.22 2.90 35.5 1 0 investigate this query
I Sharma (INDIA) 2 4 69.0 12 150 8 3/46 5/86 18.75 2.17 51.7 0 0 investigate this query
R Ashwin (INDIA) 2 4 76.3 17 215 7 4/113 5/191 30.71 2.81 65.5 0 0 investigate this query
HH Pandya (INDIA) 3 6 51.0 7 162 3 2/27 3/80 54.00 3.17 102.0 0 0 investigate this query
AL Phehlukwayo (SA) 1 2 10.0 1 40 2 2/25 2/40 20.00 4.00 30.0 0 0 investigate this query
DW Steyn (SA) 1 1 17.3 6 51 2 2/51 2/51 25.50 2.91 52.5 0 0 investigate this query
KA Maharaj (SA) 2 4 36.0 3 125 1 1/67 1/93 125.00 3.47 216.0 0 0

 

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=wickets;spanmax1=27+Jan+2018;spanmin1=01+Jan+2018;spanval1=span;team=3;team=6;template=results;type=bowling

 

Edited by express bowling

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