Vijay finishes with average of 17, Rahul averaged 7

[Cricketics]

Many were looking for Vijay to be that great batsman, but one forgot that he has regressed big time since Australian tour. He has scored runs at home just like any other player, yet his average has dropped even though we had 2 full home seasons, without playing much away from home.

 

Now some of his shot selection in this series have been pathetic right from the first innings of first test.

 

How much time you are willing to give him? I am all for giving him first two tests in England to sort his shyt out, otherwise we are better of investing in a new player. 

 

We have invested a lot in him, so it makes sense to give him 2 more tests. I won't like to see him dropped right away, but he has to be monitored more. Just because he can play better than Dhawan, it shouldn't guarantee him the spot. 

 

If Dhawan is pathetic, shouldn't mean Vijay can continue to be pathetic and be played every game. 

 

2 more games for him in Engalnd tour.

 

I will give Rahul at least 3 tests in England. He deserves it as we can't have too many different openers.

 

I would like to see Shaw go on tour with Indian team to England so he can replace Vijay if needed. Also if Shaw is not picked and neither is Pant picked, then Karthik should be the reserve wicket keeper for Saha. Karthik can then be used as an opener with Rahul instead of going back to Dhawan or sticking with Vijay all tour. Karthik has actually done well in swinging conditiosn in England as an opener in the past. This is only if he is required. I rather play Shaw. 

 

[kira]

Pujara finished with an average of 16.66 at a strike rate of 29.23 

[swapnil123]

very tough conditions though. give him some benefit of the doubt because almost everyone would struggle with these conditions

[kubrickian]

Vijay's contribution in second innings is quite vital. He stayed at the wicket for a long time and saw off the new ball. Softer ball meant ball doesnt do as much making it easier for batsmen to follow. I think he did his job in the second innings.

[sarcastic]

[Gollum]

Never saw you open such a thread about Kohli after the home series against Aus last year? Selective bias kicking in or agenda setting? Vijay got into the groove of leaving well this innings and he deserves a long run because there is no Gavaskar waiting in the ranks. Blame the crap intent talk and zero warm up games for the performance of our batsmen. Shaw is not a finished product, ease him in in 2 years time if he is that good. Rahul was a real prospect but his confidence has been shattered by the dumb management which 1st dropped him in ODIs and then in tests in spite of that stellar Aus series.

 

You would play Karthik based on the 2007 Eng series but not Vijay who was our top scorer in 2014 Eng tour, seriously? I don't understand the point of this thread. You need to make a batsman feel secure, give both Rahul and Vijay 5 full tests in Eng and see how it goes. When Vishy got a duck on his debut in Green Park against Lawry's Aus, he was sitting alone in a corner. During the lunch break Pataudi put his arms around his shoulders and said 'You will get 10 more innings, don't worry', rest is the stuff of legends...in the 2nd innings Vishy got a 137 with 25 boundaries, 10 against Mckenzie !!!! If Kohli wants to build a great team he needs to back the right players and assure them of his unflinching support. Chopping and changing every 2 tests will only destabilize the team further. Rahul is a greater talent than most of his age group in world cricket, Vijay has a good record in England....why would you tinker with that?

Edited January 26, 2018 by Gollum

[coffee_rules]

Rahul had 7 tests with 50s consecutively, but Kohli chose Dhawan on form against SL!. Such things breaks the confidence. He showed signs of recovery when he batted out a tricky evening which was vital for setting a target and not lose wickets in a heap. We need a backup opener hence we need to groom a new player rather than tried and tested and failed Dhawan.

[Trichromatic]

19 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

Many were looking for Vijay to be that great batsman, but one forgot that he has regressed big time since Australian tour. He has scored runs at home just like any other player, yet his average has dropped even though we had 2 full home seasons, without playing much away from home.

 

Now some of his shot selection in this series have been pathetic right from the first innings of first test.

 

How much time you are willing to give him? I am all for giving him first two tests in England to sort his shyt out, otherwise we are better of investing in a new player. 

Wasn't he always a 40 averaging batsman? He was averaging 40.56 at start of home season after WI series and ended with average of 41.57 at the end of SL series.

 

He scored 2 hundreds in England series, 2 in SL series. But yeah inconsistency was always feature of his game. It hasn't changed recently.

 

Shot selection is certainly a worry. His game hasn't looked tight like last time. 

[coffee_rules]

Judging batting ability positively or negatively on this pitch is not on.

[Gollum]

In his 1st full fledged overseas tour we all saw what Kohli did. In his 1st full fledged overseas tour we all saw what Rohit did. Same with Dhawan and many others. Yet knives out only for Rahul, may be some don't want Rahul to challenge Kohli.

[Cricketics]

1 minute ago, Gollum said:

Never saw you open such a thread about Kohli after the home series against Aus last year? Selective bias kicking in or agenda setting? Vijay got into the groove of leaving well this innings and he deserves a long run because there is no Gavaskar waiting in the ranks. Blame the crap intent talk and zero warm up games for the performance of our batsmen. Shaw is not a finished product, ease him in in 2 years time if he is that good. Rahul was a real prospect but his confidence has been shattered by the dumb management which 1st dropped him in ODIs and then in tests in spite of that stellar Aus series.

 

You would play Karthik based on the 2007 Eng series but not Vijay who was our top scorer in 2014 Eng tour, seriously? I don't understand the point of this thread. You need to make a batsman feel secure, give both Rahul and Vijay 5 full tests in Eng and see how it goes. When Vishy got a duck on his debut in Green Park against Lawry's Aus, he was sitting alone in a corner. During the lunch break Pataudi put his arms around his shoulders and said 'You will get 10 more innings, don't worry', rest is the stuff of legends...in the 2nd innings Vishy got a 137 with 25 boundaries, 10 against Mckenzie !!!! If Kohli wants to build a great team he needs to back the right players and assure them of his unflinching support. Chopping and changing every 2 tests will only destabilize the team further. Rahul is a greater talent than most of his age group in world cricket, Vijay has a good record in England....why would you tinker with that?

I am asking for him to play first two tests. Didn't you read that part? Isn't that fair assessment.

 

If he fails in first two tests, can't he be not replaced with someone else since we will be going into third test at a crucial time in the series may be trying to change the result of the series, isn't it right to move on then from an opener who has failed in first two tests of that tour and also in the previous 3 tests, that is 5 tests in a row now, which constitutes to 10 innings of failures?

 

Read again, first 2 tests should be given to Vijay. Its been sitting there in the OP for you to read. Selective bias would have been to drop Vijay right away.

 

 

[zen]

The average score has been relatively low in this series so the averages would be on the lower side 

 

For Ind, Kohli, Pandya and Pujara have managed to hit 50 or more so that is a positive. Guys like Vijay, played out a lot of balls in tough conditions in this test which helped the team 

 

Overall, Kohli has like 3 good innings. Pujara may be 2. Pandya 1. Vijay may be 1 .... and SA batting has performed relatively better so far 

Edited January 26, 2018 by zen

[Cricketics]

3 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Rahul had 7 tests with 50s consecutively, but Kohli chose Dhawan on form against SL!. Such things breaks the confidence. He showed signs of recovery when he batted out a tricky evening which was vital for setting a target and not lose wickets in a heap. We need a backup opener hence we need to groom a new player rather than tried and tested and failed Dhawan.

Rahul should play 3-4 tests in a row in England. He is the only guy who deserves a long run even if he fails for a decent period since he is class player. If guys like Sharma can be given a long run after repetitive failures, then Rahul should be given till Australia tour. 

 

There is no question of even dropping Rahul for now. Vijay is a concern though since we can't have both Vijay and Rahul failing together. We need someone on top scoring at least and for that we must make a change if Vijay is still not scoring after first two tests in England. 

 

Start with Vijay and Rahul in England for first two test.

[sandeep]

6 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Never saw you open such a thread about Kohli after the home series against Aus last year? Selective bias kicking in

Ding, ding ding. 

 

@Cricketics  Openers were the biggest factor in our series result no doubt.  But Kohli shares responsibility for mindfacking them before they even got to the crease as well.   Vijay and Rahul should be given the 1st 3 tests in England without any asterisks, and then we can make a judgement call.   

[Cricketics]

5 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Wasn't he always a 40 averaging batsman? He was averaging 40.56 at start of home season after WI series and ended with average of 41.57 at the end of SL series.

 

He scored 2 hundreds in England series, 2 in SL series. But yeah inconsistency was always feature of his game. It hasn't changed recently.

 

Shot selection is certainly a worry. His game hasn't looked tight like last time. 

He had reached close to 44. He is too solid a batsman to give it away like this. I am disappointed from him on this tour, not because of his failures since many failed and not just him, but more for some of the shots he played as he is never like this usually. 

 

He is known to take his time.

 

 

[Gollum]

Just now, Cricketics said:

I am asking for him to play first two tests. Didn't you read that part? Isn't that fair assessment.

 

If he fails in first two tests, can't he be not replaced with someone else since we will be going into third test at a crucial time in the series may be trying to change the result of the series, isn't it right to move on then from an opener who has failed in first two tests of that tour and also in the previous 3 tests, that is 5 tests in a row now, which constitutes to 10 innings of failures?

 

Read again, first 2 tests should be given to Vijay. Its been sitting there in the OP for you to read. Selective bias would have been to drop Vijay right away.

 

 

Captain should assure him of full 5 full tests, he will 100% deliver. Great openers are very rare, it is the toughest spot in cricket...back your horses and trust them to come good. With proper warm ups and no intent talk both Vijay and Rahul will deliver big time in Eng. I am not delusional to believe that Karthik will recreate the magic of 11 years back or an 18 year old kid will create a chamatkar 1st up in Eng against Anderson/Broad.

 

If one of them does fail miserably replace him with Dhawan because he isn't an oldie or newbie, he is in his prime age. Besides he will be best suited to replace either because of the warm ups (ODIs/T20s). 

[Pollack]

Vijay was OK like always but  always over rated. No way he should be dropped until we get a more complete opening batsman as an alternative. He is the best we have now.

Rahul has failed. But will give him benefit of doubt. Insecurity of losing spot from tests too having already dropped from ODIs and t20s must be really hard. Still an upgrade over dhawan.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Pollack

[Cricketics]

Just now, sandeep said:

Ding, ding ding. 

 

@Cricketics  Openers were the biggest factor in our series result no doubt.  But Kohli shares responsibility for mindfacking them before they even got to the crease as well.   Vijay and Rahul should be given the 1st 3 tests in England without any asterisks, and then we can make a judgement call.   

Rahul yes, Vijay I will give first two tests. 3 is fine too, but it also depends how our 3-4-5 are doing. If 3-4-5 are scoring runs then Vijay can continue for longer, but eventually I would love to see someone new being tried, otherwise there could be a situation that we have only 2 tests remaining in the series where the series might be decided and because of that the management might not play a young player. Hence someone new coming into third test of a 5 match series might make sense.

Again, it depends what the result of the series is that particular time.

 

We must give chance to some new player at least somewhere if we have continuous failures in top 6, otherwise this away season will be over quickly and our youngsters would have to wait another 2-3 years to tour a different part of the world where they would struggle righta way. Let them get a chacne to struggle now in England or Australia, so they are ready for the next overseas tours years from now. 

 

 

[Trichromatic]

7 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

He had reached close to 44. He is too solid a batsman to give it away like this. I am disappointed from him on this tour, not because of his failures since many failed and not just him, but more for some of the shots he played as he is never like this usually. 

 

He is known to take his time.

 

 

When did that happen?

 

What's this mysterious regeression and drop in average which is being considered as reason to hang sword on his head? His average before start of home season was 40.56 and it increased to 41.57.

 

Quote

He has scored runs at home just like any other player, yet his average has dropped even though we had 2 full home seasons, without playing much away from home.

 

He was always a 40 averaging batsman. Shot selection and leaving the ball hasn't been that good. But he improved on that in last couple of innings.

 

 

 

 

 

[Cricketics]

3 minutes ago, Gollum said:

 

If one of them does fail miserably replace him with Dhawan because he isn't an oldie or newbie, he is in his prime age. Besides he will be best suited to replace either because of the warm ups (ODIs/T20s). 

Replacement coming in as Dhawan isn't a good idea. We are better of giving a youngster a chance than bringing Dhawan. However, if Shaw isn't picked, only then Karthik as temporary opener makes sense. 

 

I rather give chance to Shaw so he can get to face England's best bowlers now so he is ready for future tours. Remember quickly this England and Aus tour will be over and we will be left with another couple of home seasons where they might end up trying Shaw then and then another cycle of overseas tours will start where Shaw would then play as an opener and might struggle. Its better for Shaw to struggle now than struggle later. No harm in throwing him for at least a test or two in England around 3rd or 4th test. 

 

England also brough Haseenb Hameed to India and he impressed and gained a lot from that tour. He will surely plaly for England down the line. India should do the same in Shaw and play him in England, or any other capable youngster for that matter.