Gollum Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 @maniac Dhawan won't be a bad choice as reserve opener. Eng batting is shaky and our fast bowlers have some ability. Just like against Pak in 2016 they may roll out pattas if they feel uneasy on typical English tracks. Moreover we tour in late summer and play the ODIs/T20s first. If one of Rahul/Vijay gets injured or flops miserably Dhawan won't be a bad choice. Shaw is simply untested, I don't trust an 18 year old to directly go and fare well against the new ball bowlers of Eng. maniac 1 Link to comment
maniac Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Just now, Gollum said: @maniac Dhawan won't be a bad choice as reserve opener. Eng batting is shaky and our fast bowlers have some ability. Just like against Pak in 2016 they may roll out pattas if they feel uneasy on typical English tracks. Moreover we tour in late summer and play the ODIs/T20s first. If one of Rahul/Vijay gets injured or flops miserably Dhawan won't be a bad choice. Shaw is simply untested, I don't trust an 18 year old to directly go and fare well against the new ball bowlers of Eng. Well I like the 3 we have as well but I am just saying if the intention in the OP is to have one a slot for a youngster than that slot is Dhawans and not Vijay’s . However Dhawan on flat tracks against the English line up that has no express bowler it won’t be a bad backup option. Gollum 1 Link to comment
Gollum Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 2 minutes ago, maniac said: Well I like the 3 we have as well but I am just saying if the intention in the OP is to have one a slot for a youngster than that slot is Dhawans and not Vijay’s . However Dhawan on flat tracks against the English line up that has no express bowler it won’t be a bad backup option. Yup agree with your first line. Link to comment
Cricketics Posted January 26, 2018 Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 14 minutes ago, maniac said: @Cricketics this is technically Vijay’s first international series failure and even then he has done better than other openers. Rahul is the future. Both need to be given one more go but yes Vijay’s position is not as secure as it was before. Rahul has age on his side and deserves few more chances. Dhawan well he is a proven failure so you can bring a young guy like Shaw etc in his slot. You can’t go in with 3 new openers on a tough tour....so not sure what you are implying here. Implying that we should change one of the two openers in 3rd test or 4th test if we aren’t doing well. In a big 5 match series if we are continuously failing ill 3rd test, we must make someone sit out from the two.Vijay by default after two tests. If both are doing fine then not a big deal, but we can’t continue to have poor starts for more than two-three tests Link to comment
maniac Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 2 minutes ago, Cricketics said: Implying that we should change one of the two openers in 3rd test or 4th test if we aren’t doing well. In a big 5 match series if we are continuously failing ill 3rd test, we must make someone sit out from the two.Vijay by default after two tests. If both are doing fine then not a big deal, but we can’t continue to have poor starts for more than two-three tests Again timing of your thread is wrong, this was a very brave knock by both openers which facilitated this competitive target.... also Vijay did better than the other 2 overall so dropping him already should not even be on the horizon. of course if he fails 3 consecutive tests it’s a no brainer to drop him.... that applies to every batsman and bowler unless they are a proven ATG or there is no other option Link to comment
Gollum Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 @Cricketics I understand the point you are trying to make but it should apply to all players. Pujara too is struggling big time and if he fails in the 1st 2 tests in Eng, questions will be raised. If Kohli fails in the 1st 2 tests in Eng, all hell will break loose because of that 2014 tour and birds will start chirping, especially the experts, commentators and British media. I don't want Pujara-Kohli to fail but just saying, this isn't limited to just the openers. If you keep on failing there will be tough questions asked. Today I won't talk bad about the batsmen, bhadaas series ke baad nikalunga. They were simply superb today, one of the gutsiest passages of batting from yesterday last hour and a half till Rahane-Kohli partnership. Ofc the boys had fun after that but the foundation was laid at the cost of many bruises and sore muscles because of the hits the top order took, respect to these guys. They have bigger balls than the Saffers who were bred on these conditions. SLICKR392 1 Link to comment
King Tendulkar Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Frankly can’t judge any batsman on these joke pitches this series wether you are saha Dhawan or Raul this is no place to judge anyone unless you atg like kohli or De viliers you have no chance stupid pitches I give every single one of them benefit of doubt SLICKR392, Trichromatic and SecondSlip 3 Link to comment
Cricketics Posted January 26, 2018 Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 21 minutes ago, Gollum said: @Cricketics I understand the point you are trying to make but it should apply to all players. Pujara too is struggling big time and if he fails in the 1st 2 tests in Eng, questions will be raised. If Kohli fails in the 1st 2 tests in Eng, all hell will break loose because of that 2014 tour and birds will start chirping, especially the experts, commentators and British media. I don't want Pujara-Kohli to fail but just saying, this isn't limited to just the openers. If you keep on failing there will be tough questions asked. Today I won't talk bad about the batsmen, bhadaas series ke baad nikalunga. They were simply superb today, one of the gutsiest passages of batting from yesterday last hour and a half till Rahane-Kohli partnership. Ofc the boys had fun after that but the foundation was laid at the cost of many bruises and sore muscles because of the hits the top order took, respect to these guys. They have bigger balls than the Saffers who were bred on these conditions. Yes it applied to Many others but openers in question have been bigger story so hence my concern. I of course want to see Pujara score more than what he did and I hope he does, but I do know he looked like scoring more runs than most. I am personally in favor of not touching our 3-4-5 for a longer period and hence I want to see them togetther for time being instead of dropping any of them. Hence I raise issue for openers more than for the middle order or Pujara. I hope this answers your query. If you noticr my other poste, I have been hell bent on making sure some how 3-4-5 of pujara-Kohli-Rahane are given a longer run together as I believe that it will make a difference. 38 minutes ago, maniac said: Again timing of your thread is wrong, this was a very brave knock by both openers which facilitated this competitive target.... also Vijay did better than the other 2 overall so dropping him already should not even be on the horizon. of course if he fails 3 consecutive tests it’s a no brainer to drop him.... that applies to every batsman and bowler unless they are a proven ATG or there is no other option Link to comment
vvvslaxman Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 You have to look at their innings objectively. Of all the three MV should be the last to be replaced/. If we go by history and also this series MV showed why he is such a vital cog in this line up. He is the only guy besides Kohl’s did well both home and away. Link to comment
King Tendulkar Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Vijay has looked in test 2 and 3 . Comfortable . Forget the scores no one has done jack in this series apart from kohli and de villiers , with a bit of Amla and ranahne joke tracks . No one had bagged runs . Vijay looking good is enough lol anyway no batsman shoudl be judged in this series , pathetic tracks frankly Link to comment
Cricketics Posted January 26, 2018 Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 59 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said: You have to look at their innings objectively. Of all the three MV should be the last to be replaced/. If we go by history and also this series MV showed why he is such a vital cog in this line up. He is the only guy besides Kohl’s did well both home and away. That is one way of looking at it and the other thing is that we lost 2 test matches in this series so far because of our batting. So if we lose another 2 test matches in England in England because of our batting, don't you think that calls for some change in the batting line up? After losing 2 test matches in a row in England, if we do, I am not saying we will, or two poor performances, whom are you then most likely to change from the top 5 in our batting ourder? Don't tell me you want to drop either of Kohli, Pujara or Rahane. Then left is Vijay and Rahul. I am more likely to replace Vijay then because I feel Rahul should be kept for long term since he is the younger of the two and we know he is capable of scoring big runs down the line as he has already done well in tough series against Australia at home. We have to make some changes to our batting if we are doing bad down the line. Link to comment
lamellavig Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 1 minute ago, King Tendulkar said: Vijay has looked in test 2 and 3 . Comfortable . Forget the scores no one has done jack in this series apart from kohli and de villiers , with a bit of Amla and ranahne joke tracks . No one had bagged runs . Vijay looking good is enough lol anyway no batsman shoudl be judged in this series , pathetic tracks frankly Looking comfortable? You need to make runs, Vijay does not do it enough. He is waste of resources. He is 33 and still plays like a young player. Link to comment
lamellavig Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Just now, Cricketics said: That is one way of looking at it and the other thing is that we lost 2 test matches in this series so far because of our batting. So if we lose another 2 test matches in England in England because of our batting, don't you think that calls for some change in the batting line up? After losing 2 test matches in a row in England, if we do, I am not saying we will, or two poor performances, whom are you then most likely to change from the top 5 in our batting ourder? Don't tell me you want to drop either of Kohli, Pujara or Rahane. Then left is Vijay and Rahul. I am more likely to replace Vijay then because I feel Rahul should be kept for long term since he is the younger of the two and we know he is capable of scoring big runs down the line as he has already done well in tough series against Australia at home. We have to make some changes to our batting if we are doing bad down the line. Agreed man. Agree so much. Please look at my submitted topic about player selection. You will see the argument. Cricketics 1 Link to comment
Cricketics Posted January 26, 2018 Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 4 minutes ago, King Tendulkar said: Vijay has looked in test 2 and 3 . Comfortable . Forget the scores no one has done jack in this series apart from kohli and de villiers , with a bit of Amla and ranahne joke tracks . No one had bagged runs . Vijay looking good is enough lol anyway no batsman shoudl be judged in this series , pathetic tracks frankly Vijay did well today surely for playing that long but overall his other failures from previous test shouldn't be forgotten down the line. He should start surely in England. I would stick to this batting line up, the top 5 of VIJAY, RAHUL, PUJARA, KOHLI, RAHANE for the first two tests in England. But if this line up fails in the first two tests, don't you feel we have to make some change at least if we are losing or performing bad because of our batting regularly? I am not ready to change our 3-4-5 till end of Australian series. so since only two guys left then, I would look to drop Vijay in that case instead of Rahul around the third test in England. Link to comment
bowl_out Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Agree Vijay didn't deliver to expectation, but his second innings in the third test was crucial. Remember he also played an important knock of 40-odd earlier in a Test that we lost eventually. I would still take him as my first choice opener to England, but he needs counselling to not show 'INTENT', but play out the new ball and not fish outside off like he used to couple of years back Link to comment
vvvslaxman Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Cricketics said: That is one way of looking at it and the other thing is that we lost 2 test matches in this series so far because of our batting. So if we lose another 2 test matches in England in England because of our batting, don't you think that calls for some change in the batting line up? After losing 2 test matches in a row in England, if we do, I am not saying we will, or two poor performances, whom are you then most likely to change from the top 5 in our batting ourder? Don't tell me you want to drop either of Kohli, Pujara or Rahane. Then left is Vijay and Rahul. I am more likely to replace Vijay then because I feel Rahul should be kept for long term since he is the younger of the two and we know he is capable of scoring big runs down the line as he has already done well in tough series against Australia at home. We have to make some changes to our batting if we are doing bad down the line. You cannot drop playere by elimination. For the record opening is the toughest job overseas. He has outperformed pujara everywhere overseas. At no point he looked clueless like Dhawan or Rohit. Even Kohl’s looked bewildered most of the time in England while trying to leave the ball. Only one who looked assur in most of the away series in these parts was M Vijay. There is a sense of calmness he brings. These Shaw’s and other noobs are r motley looking like equipped to handle high class bowling on difficult pitches. They constantly try to feel the ball. It is suicidal to drop MV who I rate better than pujara overseas. Against new all in swinging condition he is the best in India by some distance. It should not even be a discussion. We don’t want another abhinav mulund scenario Edited January 26, 2018 by vvvslaxman Link to comment
Cricketics Posted January 26, 2018 Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 2 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said: You cannot drop playere by elimination. For the record opening is the toughest job overseas. He has outperformed pujara everywhere overseas. At no point he looked clueless like Dhawan or Rohit. Even Kohl’s looked bewildered most of the time in England while trying to leave the ball. Only one who looked assur in most of the away series in these parts was M Vijay. There is a sense of calmness he brings. These Shaw’s and other noobs are r motley looking like equipped to handle high class bowling on difficult pitches. They constantly try to feel the ball. It is suicidal to drop MV who I rate better than pujara overseas. Against new all in swinging condition he is the best in India by some distance. It should not even be a discussion. We don’t want another abhinav mulund scenario I asked you simple question whom you would likely drop if any after another two test failures of our batting line up? Going by your response you are interested at dropping Pujara I believe if we fail regularly since you suggested Vijay hasn’t been as bad as Rohit or Dhawan. I hope we are not sticking to that parameter. So Pujara you are suggesting in top 5 who should be dropped first if he fails to perform? Link to comment
vvvslaxman Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 2 minutes ago, Cricketics said: I asked you simple question whom you would likely drop if any after another two test failures of our batting line up? Going by your response you are interested at dropping Pujara I believe if we fail regularly since you suggested Vijay hasn’t been as bad as Rohit or Dhawan. I hope we are not sticking to that parameter. So Pujara you are suggesting in top 5 who should be dropped first if he fails to perform? Nobody needs to be dropped . Link to comment
vvvslaxman Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Indians batting failure was due to reckless shots , run outs, inconsistent selection. This line up should have played from the first test. Link to comment
Cricketics Posted January 26, 2018 Author Share Posted January 26, 2018 1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said: Nobody needs to be dropped . Until how long? If we have done bad in terms of batting in two test matches in England, you won’t make change to the batting order? So you saying you will make changes after England series which is a long 5 match series. Link to comment
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