Hindu Man stabbed to death by Muslim girlfriend’s family in west Delhi’s Khyala

[Gollum]

19 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

This is why i think India should spend 10x the amount of money it does on police & justice system and half the amount of money it spends buying shiny new toys for the military to chest-thump over, which gathers rust and does nothing useful.

 

 

I think Sweden does that, clearly not working. Problem lies elsewhere and I don't see any solution in the future, esp for India. 

[Stradlater]

7 minutes ago, ravishingravi said:

You are actually spot on. The issue in India is of law and order

No it's not. India is too heterogeneous for that. European model simply can't work here . And a big lol at reducing defence expenditure , we are already woefully short of our required defence spending

. 

We only have 32 functioning squadrons left in air force , lowest in a decade. The IAF needs at least 42 squadrons of fighters to protect it's Western and Northern borders with Pakistan and China .By 2019-20 , it will loose another 14 squadrons of vintage Mig 21s and 27s. 

Cutting down defence expenditure would be suicidal.

[Muloghonto]

5 hours ago, MultiB48 said:

No police system of any country could have saved this guy,The ones who killed him were willing to risk and sacrifice themselves to stop the girl from falling into the hands of a rival community.The only way this guy could have been saved were if the family were willing to reject the marriage but not kill the guy out of decency if nothing else or if the retaliation for the murder would have been so severe for not only the family but also the rest of the community that they dare not touch the man. 

There is a reason why the muslim community in the west, or the conservative Sikhs here, when they do these type of honor killings, they don't do it here, but wait till their children go back to motherland for a vacation.

Ofcourse it matters, if the nation has a really high rate of apprehention and sentencing of criminals vs a luck of the draw approach.

 

[Muloghonto]

36 minutes ago, Stradlater said:

No it's not. India is too heterogeneous for that. European model simply can't work here . 

. 

Explain why the superior western model of justice cannot work in India. You commit a crime (any crime) = you are brought to justice. This includes assaults, and ANY crime, processed in a timely manner. This is what India should be striving for. 

 

36 minutes ago, Stradlater said:

And a big lol at reducing defence expenditure , we are already woefully short of our required defence spending

We only have 32 functioning squadrons left in air force , lowest in a decade. The IAF needs at least 42 squadrons of fighters to protect it's Western and Northern borders with Pakistan and China .By 2019-20 , it will loose another 14 squadrons of vintage Mig 21s and 27s. 

Cutting down defence expenditure would be suicidal.

And that's 32 aircraft squadrons gathering rust. We don't need any such thing to protect us from invasion, as the lesson of Pakistan or North Korea should teach us- once you have nukes, you are 'un-invade-able'. 

These massive defence spendings, while our country's law and order situation is closer to Sub-Saharan Africa than the civilized world, is purely for show and chest-thumping. And we certainly don't need purely offensive white elephants like aircraft carriers before we get our own house in order. 

 

[Muloghonto]

50 minutes ago, Gollum said:

I think Sweden does that, clearly not working. Problem lies elsewhere and I don't see any solution in the future, esp for India. 

What isn't working for Sweden exactly ? They have one of the lowest crime rates in the world. 

[Gollum]

12 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

What isn't working for Sweden exactly ? They have one of the lowest crime rates in the world. 

Ranks very high on the sexual violence front but I won't be surprised if their crime rate is much higher compared to other developed Western European states. Needless to add, Muslims have a big role in pushing these numbers on the upward trajectory, their role in sexual violence on Swedish women is well documented IIRC. Ofc Sweden will be much better placed compared to 3rd world countries but for a country with such high HDI, development, women empowerment and efficient police system they have a real problem on their hands. 

[ravishingravi]

36 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

What isn't working for Sweden exactly ? They have one of the lowest crime rates in the world. 

They used to. But if one checks the stats over the last 20 years, the story is quite different. Ofcourse, the fact that govt obfuscates some of these numbers to suit their agenda also doesn't help to lend much credibility to the numbers. But Sweden is having plenty of problems 

[Gollum]

Hindus in Pak/Bangladesh/Afghanistan never indulge in terror or criminal activities or violent crimes. Contrast that to Muslims in Hindu majority India. Clearly the root of the problem is nothing but Islam combined with our unwavering tolerance to all their ills. 

Edited February 4, 2018 by Gollum

[Mariyam]

7 hours ago, Stradlater said:

Agreed. A weak quam that deserves the beating it receives regularly at the hands of Islamists. Just today I read in the paper where they tried to ask questions to the neighbors of the guy killed , the scared parosis refused to talk to camera since the girl's family lived nearby and could harm them as well. 

Lol ye tab hai jab ye 80 percent h. 

I don't think your generalization is apt here. The criminals have been arrested and are very likely to get maximum sentence. I doubt that the padosis are scared of them. They are more scared of the police asking them to make multiple depositions and the associated court kachehri ke chakkar. 

 

I agree with @Muloghonto on this one. We needs more courts, a better police force and more judges.

 

What we also need the Muslim community leaders/ maulvis in the locality to come out and condemn this as strongly as possible. 

[Stradlater]

14 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

I don't think your generalization is apt here. The criminals have been arrested and are very likely to get maximum sentence. I doubt that the padosis are scared of them. They are more scared of the police asking them to make multiple depositions and the associated court kachehri ke chakkar. 

 

I agree with @Muloghonto on this one. We needs more courts, a better police force and more judges.

 

What we also need the Muslim community leaders/ maulvis in the locality to come out and condemn this as strongly as possible. 

They were Mariam. I'm not generalizing here , I'm quoting the exact report of The Hindu (The liberalest newspaper in India) who interviewed Chandni (the changed name btw) who refused to answer their questions. The other neighbors were quite shaken and scared as well . You can check today's Delhi edition .

[Stradlater]

@Muloghonto if you seriously think we have no danger from Pak and China (since we have nukes) and are wasting our time building our defense infrastructure then you are an idiot and I don't wish to indulge in any sort of debate with you . My father , sister and brother in law are army officers and know a thing or two about warfare than someone  who's sitting safely in Canada. 

Both India and Pak had nukes in 1999 , didn't stop Pakistan from launching Kargil. Oh and in case you dont know , the cross border firing incidents in 2017 increased by 200 percent compared to last 4 years. For you that might be a petty small thing but our jawans are dying on a regular basis in Kashmir. We need our defence expenditure to be increased. There can be no compromise on that front.

[AmreekanDesi]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

Hindus in Pak/Bangladesh/Afghanistan never indulge in terror or criminal activities or violent crimes. Contrast that to Muslims in Hindu majority India. Clearly the root of the problem is nothing but Islam combined with our unwavering tolerance to all their ills. 

not really comparable tbh

 

in both countries they are barely a few percent and for all intents and purposes negligible number looking at the larger picture (I doubt Afghanistan has more than even 1%)

 

in India - the number of Muslims are comparable or more than the number of Muslims in Pakistan and Bangladesh. Muslims in India themselves would form a population bigger than all but 5-6 countries. Not comparable at all the situation

[Muloghonto]

48 minutes ago, Stradlater said:

@Muloghonto if you seriously think we have no danger from Pak and China (since we have nukes) and are wasting our time building our defense infrastructure then you are an idiot and I don't wish to indulge in any sort of debate with you . My father , sister and brother in law are army officers and know a thing or two about warfare than someone  who's sitting safely in Canada. 

We are in no imminent danger. Just like how Pakistan or North Korea are not in any imminent danger. My point is, our military spending is definitely a lower priority (in terms of needs) than law and order spending or fixing the internal workings of our nation.

48 minutes ago, Stradlater said:

Both India and Pak had nukes in 1999 , didn't stop Pakistan from launching Kargil. Oh and in case you dont know , the cross border firing incidents in 2017 increased by 200 percent compared to last 4 years. For you that might be a petty small thing but our jawans are dying on a regular basis in Kashmir. We need our defence expenditure to be increased. There can be no compromise on that front.

And none of these justify spending billions on aircraft carriers and state of the art 4.5 gen fighter jets.

You remind me of George W Bush's switch and bait - where he blamed the taliban and Al-Qaeda as imminent threat to the US and main reason why the US needs...F-22s !!

[Muloghonto]

59 minutes ago, Stradlater said:

They were Mariam. I'm not generalizing here , I'm quoting the exact report of The Hindu (The liberalest newspaper in India) who interviewed Chandni (the changed name btw) who refused to answer their questions. The other neighbors were quite shaken and scared as well . You can check today's Delhi edition .

Do you expect anything different in a nation where anyone can assault anyone and get away scot-free ??

[Muloghonto]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

Hindus in Pak/Bangladesh/Afghanistan never indulge in terror or criminal activities or violent crimes. Contrast that to Muslims in Hindu majority India. Clearly the root of the problem is nothing but Islam combined with our unwavering tolerance to all their ills. 

Its a multi-parted problem.

Ofcourse Islam makes people more prone to violence. We have plenty of evidence for that. 

But the ultimate governing principle,is law and order. 

This is why muslims are far more peaceful in the west than in their homelands and this is why even far more peaceful Hindus commit assault willy nilly in India and get away with it ( such as beating people up over holding hands in public, etc). 

 

You see the same effect in schools really, in a microcosm : yes, the bullies in the classroom don't become all Gandhi-an one period and Rambo the next period...but in the classroom with strict teachers, they behave far more than in classrooms with pushover teachers.

 

Because the underlying governing principle, is consequences. All human conflict- whether committed by an individual or a state, have a 'risk to reward' component to it and if the rewards are bigger than the risk, the act is committed. Otherwise not. 

If India became like the west in terms of law and order- where if you laid a FINGER on a person, within 3 months you will be sitting in a court room and either paying a fine or spending 3 months behind bars, the general lawlessness of the nation will sharply decline.

 

[Gollum]

19 minutes ago, AmreekanDesi said:

not really comparable tbh

 

in both countries they are barely a few percent and for all intents and purposes negligible number looking at the larger picture (I doubt Afghanistan has more than even 1%)

 

in India - the number of Muslims are comparable or more than the number of Muslims in Pakistan and Bangladesh. Muslims in India themselves would form a population bigger than all but 5-6 countries. Not comparable at all the situation

Sindh has Hindu population of 5%, same as the Muslim pop in Tamil Nadu, yet you have seen Tamil Muslims indulge in violence.

Bangladesh has roughly 10% Hindus, similar to Gujarat/Rajasthan/Uttarakhand/Karnataka/Andhra/Telengana etc yet see the difference. 

[Gollum]

@Muloghonto I wouldn't be so lenient to draw a bully example, a significant chunk of Muslims are comparable to rabid dogs (even assuming a smallish % of fanatics in Islam the number is quite significant, so pardon my language). You can't be civil with rabid dogs, either get bitten or put them down before they bite you. 

 

Define 'far more peaceful'. Even if they are far more peaceful in the west it isn't enough for modern standards, this far more peaceful group has done a significant amount of damage in the west, so I wouldn't necessarily agree with you on that. Remove the Muslims and I bet these western nations will be more peaceful. An average Muslim is almost as bad as an extremist Hindu and I am not comfortable with Hindutva elements in my surroundings.

 

I am not sure risk to reward ratio works with extremist Muslims who believe in fairytale jannat concepts. Ofc with strict law and order the situation will be better managed but still the problem won't be solved. There is a reason why Hungary or Poland have better law and order than countries like Sweden, England, Germany and France....it is because they have a certain policy w.r.t Muslims. You won't find grooming gangs, Muslim no go areas, abduction, rape, terror etc quite to the same extent in these countries. I maintain that law and order, police reforms etc will only take you so far in any country with significant pop of Muslims, we need to do more........

 

Edited February 4, 2018 by Gollum

[Muloghonto]

3 minutes ago, Gollum said:

@Muloghonto I wouldn't be so lenient to draw a bully example, a significant chunk of Muslims are comparable to rabid dogs (even assuming a smallish % of fanatics in Islam the number is quite significant, so pardon my language). You can't be civil with rabid dogs, either get bitten or put them down before they bite you. 

 

Define 'far more peaceful'. Even if they are far more peaceful in the west it isn't enough for modern standards, this far more peaceful group has done a significant bit of damage in the west, so I wouldn't necessarily agree with you on that. Remove the Muslims and I bet these western nations will be more peaceful. An average Muslim is almost as bad as an extremist Hindu and I am not comfortable with Hindutva elements in my surroundings.

 

I am not sure risk to reward ratio works with extremist Muslims who believe in fairytale jannat concepts. Ofc with strict law and order the situation will be better managed but still the problem won't be solved. There is a reason why Hungary or Poland have better law and order than countries like Sweden, England, Germany and France....it is because they have a certain policy w.r.t Muslims. You won't find grooming gangs, Muslim no go areas, abduction, rape, terror in these countries. I maintain that law and order, police reforms etc will only take you so far in any country with significant pop of Muslims, we need to do more........

 

None of what you are saying is countering the point that these type of incidents will be much lower if our law and order situation was better enforced.

Far more peaceful = far less crimes being committed per capita than in places like the subcontinent.

Because of law and order.

The same muslims are far more peaceful in the middle east, in terms of law and order, because they never get away with it. 

 

And yes, even if better law and order takes us 'only so far', lets get that far instead of not improving the situation by demanding more $$ be spent on law and order.

 

Remember, our motherland is a country where you can beat people up and get away with it. That has to change. 

 

Edited February 4, 2018 by Muloghonto

[Alam_dar]

I was unable to imagine that there is so much fear of Muslim Population in India.  I thought that Muslims of India are living in fears and under social and economic boycott since the raise of RSS. 

 

In Europe too, population has started feeling themselves threatened by the Muslims. 

 

Yes, Muslims are becoming a pain in a** everywhere (especially after the rise of Salafi Islam). They have stopped respecting the other religions (as they used to do under the Sufi Islam teachings). They never integrate with the local culture today, but want to impose their Sharia and Islamic culture according to the true teachings of Islam. 

 

Edited February 4, 2018 by Alam_dar

[Texy]

Forget everything just think of the audactiy these ppl have being a minority and committing these crimes...Can Any Hindu family DARE to think of doing this in Muslim majority countries?? Forget actually doing it...they'll be slaughtered in 3 secs....but actually thinking of doing it?